July 2017 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo MOOC: Difference between class methods and instance methods

by Michel Marinier

The TinyBlog example would still be very useful without. In TBPost, you have class methods only as shortcuts to create instances with data (TBPost class >> title: text: for instance). In TBBlog, you implemented the notion of 'single instance' in week2, which required the class methods. You could just push that later, after the appropriate lessons. Everything else is excellent without the class methods. Oh, and in passing, I'd like to say how much I appreciate the fact that testing is shown to be an integral part of the process (TDD). The MOOC shows us how we can write tests before the actual methods being tested and how we can then use the debugger's Create button to create the wished-for method. I love that. -----Original Message----- From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of Stephane Ducasse Sent: July 22, 2017 9:51 To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo MOOC: Difference between class methods and instance methods Ok I see. We were struggling with order and may be we should remove the class methods in the exercise. On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 3:48 PM, Michel Marinier <mobimich(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Not yet. I'll start on week 3 today. > > The lessons you mentioned are in week 3 and week 5 I believe (the W3 and W5 in the PDF file names). However, the exercises I am referring to are in week 1 and week 2, possibly before the concept has been explained? > > (for example: > http://rmod-pharo-mooc.lille.inria.fr/MOOC/Exercises/Exo-W2-TinyBlog-M > odelExtensionTests-FR.pdf ) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On > Behalf Of Stephane Ducasse > Sent: July 22, 2017 7:30 > To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo MOOC: Difference between class > methods and instance methods > > Hello Michel > > did you have a look at the mooc videos? > > > C019-W3S06-BasicClassMethods.pdf > and > W5S02-UnderstandingClassMethods.pdf > > In Pharo there is only one method lookup. > a method is looked up in the class of the receiver and if not found up in superclass hierarchy. > > This exactly the same for class methods: > > > > > On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 10:38 PM, Michel Marinier <mobimich(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> I am an absolute beginner at Pharo and Iâm working my way through >> Pharo by Example as well as the MOOC online. While coding the >> TinyBlog example in the MOOC, I got stuck until I kind of âguessedâ >> the difference between âTBPost >>>> methodNameâ and âTBPost class >> methodNameâ. I didnât know I had >>>> to >> click on the Class button to access the class methods and coded all >> the methods as instance methods. As a result, the system complained >> when the code tried create a new instance from a method such as âtitle: text:â. >> >> >> >> I suppose I might have missed the place where this was explained in >> the MOOC, although Iâm not sure it was emphasized early on in the lessons. >> However, a suggestion would be that if you ever update the exercises >> that a notice be added warning students of the difference, at least >> in the first few exercises where there is so much to learn and remember. >> Iâm doing it in French, so it might look like this: >> >> >> >> â >> >> Nâoubliez pas la diffÃ©rence entre âTBPost >>â et âTBPost class >>â. >> Le premier indique quâil sâagit dâune mÃ©thode dâinstance. Le second >> indique quâil sâagit dâune mÃ©thode de classe. Vous devez cliquer le bouton âClassâ >> pour accÃ©der Ã la section correspondante. Dans la section pour >> lâinstance, la dÃ©finition dÃ©bute par âObject subclass: #TBPostâ alors >> que dans la section pour la classe, la dÃ©finition dÃ©bute par âTBPost classâ. >> >> â >> >> >> >> By the way, congrats on the great work providing those resources. I >> love the advice to poke around the system with the Browser and the >> Finder to find out stuff. Thanks. > > >

July 22, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] is Renraku general purpose rule checker?

by Stephane Ducasse

Yes it is its purpose. On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 2:44 PM, Peter Uhnak <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > I'm looking at Renraku and I wonder, would Renraku be a good start for general-purpose checking? > > E.g. I have a domain, where Person cannot drink if they are underage. > > So I've created a simple ReAbstractRule subclass that does basic check > > SomeRule>>basicCheck: anEntity > ^ anEntity age < 18 > > and also custom Critique. > > So for everything seems that it works well, however I am not sure if there are some potential roadbloacks down the road, because e.g. Renraku is meant only for AST/code based rules. > > Thanks, > Peter >

July 22, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo MOOC: Difference between class methods and instance methods

by Stephane Ducasse

Hello michel I checked and we introduced them (without explaining them) in W1S6 On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 3:50 PM, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Ok I see. We were struggling with order and may be we should remove > the class methods in the exercise. > > On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 3:48 PM, Michel Marinier <mobimich(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Not yet. I'll start on week 3 today. >> >> The lessons you mentioned are in week 3 and week 5 I believe (the W3 and W5 in the PDF file names). However, the exercises I am referring to are in week 1 and week 2, possibly before the concept has been explained? >> >> (for example: http://rmod-pharo-mooc.lille.inria.fr/MOOC/Exercises/Exo-W2-TinyBlog-ModelE… ) >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of Stephane Ducasse >> Sent: July 22, 2017 7:30 >> To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo MOOC: Difference between class methods and instance methods >> >> Hello Michel >> >> did you have a look at the mooc videos? >> >> >> C019-W3S06-BasicClassMethods.pdf >> and >> W5S02-UnderstandingClassMethods.pdf >> >> In Pharo there is only one method lookup. >> a method is looked up in the class of the receiver and if not found up in superclass hierarchy. >> >> This exactly the same for class methods: >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 10:38 PM, Michel Marinier <mobimich(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> I am an absolute beginner at Pharo and Iâm working my way through >>> Pharo by Example as well as the MOOC online. While coding the TinyBlog >>> example in the MOOC, I got stuck until I kind of âguessedâ the >>> difference between âTBPost >>>>> methodNameâ and âTBPost class >> methodNameâ. I didnât know I had to >>> click on the Class button to access the class methods and coded all >>> the methods as instance methods. As a result, the system complained >>> when the code tried create a new instance from a method such as âtitle: text:â. >>> >>> >>> >>> I suppose I might have missed the place where this was explained in >>> the MOOC, although Iâm not sure it was emphasized early on in the lessons. >>> However, a suggestion would be that if you ever update the exercises >>> that a notice be added warning students of the difference, at least in >>> the first few exercises where there is so much to learn and remember. >>> Iâm doing it in French, so it might look like this: >>> >>> >>> >>> â >>> >>> Nâoubliez pas la diffÃ©rence entre âTBPost >>â et âTBPost class >>â. Le >>> premier indique quâil sâagit dâune mÃ©thode dâinstance. Le second >>> indique quâil sâagit dâune mÃ©thode de classe. Vous devez cliquer le bouton âClassâ >>> pour accÃ©der Ã la section correspondante. Dans la section pour >>> lâinstance, la dÃ©finition dÃ©bute par âObject subclass: #TBPostâ alors >>> que dans la section pour la classe, la dÃ©finition dÃ©bute par âTBPost classâ. >>> >>> â >>> >>> >>> >>> By the way, congrats on the great work providing those resources. I >>> love the advice to poke around the system with the Browser and the >>> Finder to find out stuff. Thanks. >> >> >>

July 22, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo MOOC: Difference between class methods and instance methods

by Stephane Ducasse

Ok I see. We were struggling with order and may be we should remove the class methods in the exercise. On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 3:48 PM, Michel Marinier <mobimich(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Not yet. I'll start on week 3 today. > > The lessons you mentioned are in week 3 and week 5 I believe (the W3 and W5 in the PDF file names). However, the exercises I am referring to are in week 1 and week 2, possibly before the concept has been explained? > > (for example: http://rmod-pharo-mooc.lille.inria.fr/MOOC/Exercises/Exo-W2-TinyBlog-ModelE… ) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of Stephane Ducasse > Sent: July 22, 2017 7:30 > To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo MOOC: Difference between class methods and instance methods > > Hello Michel > > did you have a look at the mooc videos? > > > C019-W3S06-BasicClassMethods.pdf > and > W5S02-UnderstandingClassMethods.pdf > > In Pharo there is only one method lookup. > a method is looked up in the class of the receiver and if not found up in superclass hierarchy. > > This exactly the same for class methods: > > > > > On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 10:38 PM, Michel Marinier <mobimich(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> I am an absolute beginner at Pharo and Iâm working my way through >> Pharo by Example as well as the MOOC online. While coding the TinyBlog >> example in the MOOC, I got stuck until I kind of âguessedâ the >> difference between âTBPost >>>> methodNameâ and âTBPost class >> methodNameâ. I didnât know I had to >> click on the Class button to access the class methods and coded all >> the methods as instance methods. As a result, the system complained >> when the code tried create a new instance from a method such as âtitle: text:â. >> >> >> >> I suppose I might have missed the place where this was explained in >> the MOOC, although Iâm not sure it was emphasized early on in the lessons. >> However, a suggestion would be that if you ever update the exercises >> that a notice be added warning students of the difference, at least in >> the first few exercises where there is so much to learn and remember. >> Iâm doing it in French, so it might look like this: >> >> >> >> â >> >> Nâoubliez pas la diffÃ©rence entre âTBPost >>â et âTBPost class >>â. Le >> premier indique quâil sâagit dâune mÃ©thode dâinstance. Le second >> indique quâil sâagit dâune mÃ©thode de classe. Vous devez cliquer le bouton âClassâ >> pour accÃ©der Ã la section correspondante. Dans la section pour >> lâinstance, la dÃ©finition dÃ©bute par âObject subclass: #TBPostâ alors >> que dans la section pour la classe, la dÃ©finition dÃ©bute par âTBPost classâ. >> >> â >> >> >> >> By the way, congrats on the great work providing those resources. I >> love the advice to poke around the system with the Browser and the >> Finder to find out stuff. Thanks. > > >

July 22, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo MOOC: Difference between class methods and instance methods

by Michel Marinier

Not yet. I'll start on week 3 today. The lessons you mentioned are in week 3 and week 5 I believe (the W3 and W5 in the PDF file names). However, the exercises I am referring to are in week 1 and week 2, possibly before the concept has been explained? (for example: http://rmod-pharo-mooc.lille.inria.fr/MOOC/Exercises/Exo-W2-TinyBlog-ModelE… ) -----Original Message----- From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of Stephane Ducasse Sent: July 22, 2017 7:30 To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo MOOC: Difference between class methods and instance methods Hello Michel did you have a look at the mooc videos? C019-W3S06-BasicClassMethods.pdf and W5S02-UnderstandingClassMethods.pdf In Pharo there is only one method lookup. a method is looked up in the class of the receiver and if not found up in superclass hierarchy. This exactly the same for class methods: On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 10:38 PM, Michel Marinier <mobimich(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I am an absolute beginner at Pharo and Iâm working my way through > Pharo by Example as well as the MOOC online. While coding the TinyBlog > example in the MOOC, I got stuck until I kind of âguessedâ the > difference between âTBPost >>> methodNameâ and âTBPost class >> methodNameâ. I didnât know I had to > click on the Class button to access the class methods and coded all > the methods as instance methods. As a result, the system complained > when the code tried create a new instance from a method such as âtitle: text:â. > > > > I suppose I might have missed the place where this was explained in > the MOOC, although Iâm not sure it was emphasized early on in the lessons. > However, a suggestion would be that if you ever update the exercises > that a notice be added warning students of the difference, at least in > the first few exercises where there is so much to learn and remember. > Iâm doing it in French, so it might look like this: > > > > â > > Nâoubliez pas la diffÃ©rence entre âTBPost >>â et âTBPost class >>â. Le > premier indique quâil sâagit dâune mÃ©thode dâinstance. Le second > indique quâil sâagit dâune mÃ©thode de classe. Vous devez cliquer le bouton âClassâ > pour accÃ©der Ã la section correspondante. Dans la section pour > lâinstance, la dÃ©finition dÃ©bute par âObject subclass: #TBPostâ alors > que dans la section pour la classe, la dÃ©finition dÃ©bute par âTBPost classâ. > > â > > > > By the way, congrats on the great work providing those resources. I > love the advice to poke around the system with the Browser and the > Finder to find out stuff. Thanks.

July 22, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Why do we separate class/instance methods in the browser?

by Esteban A. Maringolo

2017-07-22 10:21 GMT-03:00 Tim Mackinnon <tim(a)testit.works>: > Anyway - this got me thinking - why do we bother having a toggle in our UI for this these days? Of course we know there is a class and a metaclass but given that we have icons for methods now (and also have a > Protocol pane ) why don't we just show all the methods we have in one list and let you filter them or even see them all? It seems much easier and way more efficient to rapidly code this way. > Has this been tried before? Is it heretical? IMO it is heretical, you taught the ethos, but that instance/class is part of the praxis (and logos) of Smalltalk. There is no such thing as "class side", that's a good metaphor we tell ourselves because it is useful. Also I think that comparing it with "static" methods, as in Java, is another resource we use but isn't directly comparable, since you can't inherit static methods. IMO we have "class" and "meta" definitions, that are our current "instance" and "class side" definitions. However I think there is still room for improvement in terms of UI, there could be separate tabs instead of radio buttons, but there is some screen state that you could lose if implemented improperly. Regards! Esteban A. Maringolo

July 22, 2017

Why do we separate class/instance methods in the browser?

by Tim Mackinnon

Hi - this week I was asked to run a mob programming session with Smalltalk - and show a group of experienced developers Smalltalk so that they could practice mobbing around a new idea. It worked really well, a 20 min talk explaining a bit of the ethos and a few key features and some quick syntax and they were able to charge ahead and really enjoy themselves. It was interesting however to see what things confused them the most (and also what things impressed them - there were many). The one that stuck out for me (and is actually mentioned in another thread this week) was the class/instance method difference. They conceptually understood the difference coming from other languages but our UI is tricky to understand with the Class button toggle we have, and if you get methods on the wrong side, like with a test, it's quite confusing. Anyway - this got me thinking - why do we bother having a toggle in our UI for this these days? Of course we know there is a class and a metaclass but given that we have icons for methods now (and also have a Protocol pane ) why don't we just show all the methods we have in one list and let you filter them or even see them all? It seems much easier and way more efficient to rapidly code this way. The only question then would be how to create methods of the right type - whether to have a button to create the right template (and put the browser code pane in the right context) or whether to indicate it by convention of the method name when creating it like + new: aSize etc. (Or even: class new: aSize etc). The more I think about it, the more it seems like something we should consider trying both for making ourselves more efficient (I'll bet everyone has written a method on the wrong side by mistake) and also helping newcomers. I'll bet it's quite easy to do in Calypso as well if I've understood Denis' model story properly. Has this been tried before? Is it heretical? Tim Sent from my iPhone

July 22, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] NeoCSV change proposal

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Peter, > On 22 Jul 2017, at 14:12, Peter Uhnak <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > this is a continuation of an older thread about quoting fields only when necessary. ( http://forum.world.st/NeoCSVWriter-automatic-quotes-td4924781.html ) > > I've attached fileouts of NeoCSV packages with the addition (I don't know if Metacello can file-out only changesets). > > The change doesn't affect the default behavior, only when explicitly requested. > > Peter Could you email me your .mcz packages (saved in the cache) ? That is much easier to work with. Thx, Sven

July 22, 2017

is Renraku general purpose rule checker?

by Peter Uhnak

Hi, I'm looking at Renraku and I wonder, would Renraku be a good start for general-purpose checking? E.g. I have a domain, where Person cannot drink if they are underage. So I've created a simple ReAbstractRule subclass that does basic check SomeRule>>basicCheck: anEntity ^ anEntity age < 18 and also custom Critique. So for everything seems that it works well, however I am not sure if there are some potential roadbloacks down the road, because e.g. Renraku is meant only for AST/code based rules. Thanks, Peter

July 22, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] NeoCSV change proposal

by Peter Uhnak

attached On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 02:12:10PM +0200, Peter Uhnak wrote: > Hi, > > this is a continuation of an older thread about quoting fields only when necessary. ( http://forum.world.st/NeoCSVWriter-automatic-quotes-td4924781.html ) > > I've attached fileouts of NeoCSV packages with the addition (I don't know if Metacello can file-out only changesets). > > The change doesn't affect the default behavior, only when explicitly requested. > > Peter

July 22, 2017