July 2017 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Why do we separate class/instance methods in the browser?

by Attila Magyar

Maybe if the protocol list was a tree instead of a list then it would make sense to include the class methods there. This would also make easier to move methods from class side to instance side or vica versa with simple drag and drop (without relying on the refactor/move to class side option). -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Why-do-we-separate-class-instance-methods-in-the-brow… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

July 23, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Why do we separate class/instance methods in the browser?

by Alistair Grant

Hi Tim, On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 04:04:33PM +0100, Tim Mackinnon wrote: > I think my thread is misunderstood - I???m not saying change how > methods work, class methods are fine, instance methods are fine - > I???m just saying I don???t think its ideal anymore to see them so > separately in our UI. It was really driven home watching great > programmers struggle (sure Smalltalk is a bit different - and there > are many elegant things we have, but class methods are pretty normal > in many languages) - and I have a similar frustration in that I find > it a straight jacket that we have to click that class button just > because we want to write what is effectively a constructor that occurs > to us when we are writing an instance method. Its very jarring and > breaks your flow to ???switch mode??? to type one in. >From a purely subjective perspective, having programmed in an environment where instance and class methods were mixed together (Python), my opinion is that it makes things more difficult to understand. I also think from a theoretical perspective that they should be kept separate: Sending an instance method means sending a message to a different object from sending a class method, so they should be kept separate. While I agree that visually Nautilus could do a much better job of distinguishing between instance and class methods, it isn't an argument in favour of mixing them in a single list. Cheers, Alistair > I think Pharo is an environment to experiment with how we think about > programming (in Smalltalk as well as other languages) - GTInspector is > marvellous, that is something that really shows how thinking about the > problem differently can make such a difference. While, I think our > standard code browsers are ok - they are stuck in a rut that we need > to break. Calypso is a hint at what is possible, but I want > GTinspector type thinking more prevalent??? with similar types of > ideas that inspire us to code better. > > Anyway, it seems like I need to take this away and try some > experiments by myself. > > Tim

July 23, 2017

Pharo 6, scrolling with 2 fingers on a Mac trackpad is very erratic

by Tim Mackinnon

Hi - Iâm wondering if anyone else has noticed that in Pharo 6, when you scroll on a MacBook trackpad with 2 fingers, that strange things happen, particularly if you do it quickly. For example, in a system browser if you expand the configurations tree and scroll through it, it very often just suddenly closes that tree and just selects the âLast Modified Methodsâ and âConfigurationsâ list items. OR it will keep jumping to the top of the list and start scrolling down again. I see this latter behaviour when scrolling through methods of a class as well. I havenât noticed it in other applications, and its possible its my laptop or maybe settings I have on it - but Iâm curious if others have seen the same behaviour? I will go back and check a Pharo 3 or 5 image and see if its the same back there. Tim

July 23, 2017

What is the setting Software Configuration Management | Default Local Repository and why does it have a strange value?

by Tim Mackinnon

Hi - A while back I was struggling with loading some metacello libraries and was convinced there was something wrong with the default working directory. I found a different way of loading things and moved on. Anyway - I have just noticed in the the settings Browser that there is a section Software Configuration Management | Default Local Repository directory and it has a strange value in it that I didnât set and all my ZeroConf images seem to be using it (/builds/workspace/Pharo-6.0-Update-Step-1-Tracker). I âm wondering if this is a bug, or some artefact of how the images are being built - and maybe it was the cause of why Monticello was reporting weird directories? Equally there is another setting below it - Local Cache directory, and it seems to default to another strange directory (an old image of mine) - again I didnât set this in newer zero conf images - and Iâm wondering how that value gets in there are well (is there some global settings file my images automatically read?) Tim

July 23, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Why do we separate class/instance methods in the browser?

by Tim Mackinnon

I think my thread is misunderstood - Iâm not saying change how methods work, class methods are fine, instance methods are fine - Iâm just saying I donât think its ideal anymore to see them so separately in our UI. It was really driven home watching great programmers struggle (sure Smalltalk is a bit different - and there are many elegant things we have, but class methods are pretty normal in many languages) - and I have a similar frustration in that I find it a straight jacket that we have to click that class button just because we want to write what is effectively a constructor that occurs to us when we are writing an instance method. Its very jarring and breaks your flow to âswitch modeâ to type one in. I think Pharo is an environment to experiment with how we think about programming (in Smalltalk as well as other languages) - GTInspector is marvellous, that is something that really shows how thinking about the problem differently can make such a difference. While, I think our standard code browsers are ok - they are stuck in a rut that we need to break. Calypso is a hint at what is possible, but I want GTinspector type thinking more prevalentâ¦ with similar types of ideas that inspire us to code better. Anyway, it seems like I need to take this away and try some experiments by myself. Tim > On 23 Jul 2017, at 12:45, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi subbu > > I used the same metaphor :) > > Stef > > > On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 4:37 PM, K K Subbu <kksubbu.ml(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> On Saturday 22 July 2017 06:51 PM, Tim Mackinnon wrote: >> >>> The one that stuck out for me (and is actually mentioned in another >>> thread this week) was the class/instance method difference. They >>> conceptually understood the difference coming from other languages >>> but our UI is tricky to understand with the Class button toggle we >>> have, and if you get methods on the wrong side, like with a test, >>> it's quite confusing. >> >> >> It is an easy mistake to make and I have often seen this confusion in >> beginners. With the attention on the methods panel and text input, it is >> easy to overlook the class toggle button :-(. >> >> An easy fix is to switch background color to differentiate between class and >> instance methods in both code and input panels. A better way would be to use >> tabs (like in Inspector). >> >> BTW, I use the metaphor of toys (objects), moulds (classes) and mould >> factory (metaclass). A mould is an object from the perspective of the mould >> maker. Therefore operations on classes are 'methods' from the maker's >> perspective (note the recursion!). >> >>> Anyway - this got me thinking - why do we bother having a toggle in >>> our UI for this these days? Of course we know there is a class and a >>> metaclass but given that we have icons for methods now (and also have >>> a Protocol pane ) why don't we just show all the methods we have in >>> one list and let you filter them or even see them all? It seems much >>> easier and way more efficient to rapidly code this way. >> >> >> This perspective comes from the traditional way - code and compile. In >> Pharo, we code one method at a time and sources are held in an external file >> and a pointer stored in each method, so displaying all methods in one panel >> would result in multiple file reads. >> >>> The only question then would be how to create methods of the right >>> type - whether to have a button to create the right template (and put >>> the browser code pane in the right context) or whether to indicate >>> it by convention of the method name when creating it like + new: >>> aSize etc. (Or even: class new: aSize etc). >>> >>> The more I think about it, the more it seems like something we should >>> consider trying both for making ourselves more efficient (I'll bet >>> everyone has written a method on the wrong side by mistake) and also >>> helping newcomers. >> >> >> Such mistakes are part of the learning curve and decrease with time. >> >> Regards .. Subbu >> >

July 23, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Is it possible to change the Pharo application title bar?

by Tim Mackinnon

Thats perfectâ¦ so flexible. > On 23 Jul 2017, at 09:15, Henrik Nergaard <draagren(a)outlook.com <mailto:draagren@outlook.com>> wrote: > > DisplayScreen hostWindowTitle: 'NewTitle' > > Best regards, > Henrik > Fra: Pharo-users <pharo-users-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org <mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org>> pÃ¥ vegne av Tim Mackinnon <tim(a)testit.works <mailto:tim@testit.works>> > Sendt: 22. juli 2017 18:44:46 > Til: Pharo Users Newsgroup > Emne: [Pharo-users] Is it possible to change the Pharo application title bar? > > Hi - is it possible to easily change the Pharo.image title bar in the pharo application? (As in the OSX title bar, or Windows one). > > I find that I often have multiple images running and its difficult to distinguish them - so having a title that had the immediate path of the image would be very useful. Iâd prefer not to have to rename image files (althoughI guess could if its not easy to change the title). > > Tim

July 23, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] NeoCSV change proposal

by Peter Uhnak

Thank you Sven! Peter On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 01:59:41PM +0200, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > > > On 23 Jul 2017, at 09:55, Peter Uhnak <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Ah, ByteArrayMap, I was trying ByteArray. > > ByteArrayMap is not a class, it is still a ByteArray, but of size 256 used as an inclusion map for characters that fit a byte. > > BTW, using CharacterSet as an abstraction makes the trick easier. > > I committed: > > === > Name: Neo-CSV-Core-SvenVanCaekenberghe.26 > Author: SvenVanCaekenberghe > Time: 23 July 2017, 1:54:22.095185 pm > UUID: e429f87e-5c11-0d00-a72d-ae5d00db2a8c > Ancestors: Neo-CSV-Core-PeterUhnak.25 > > make the core test in #writeOptionalQuotedField faster by using a primitive when possible > > add #testWideOptionalQuoted > === > Name: Neo-CSV-Tests-SvenVanCaekenberghe.22 > Author: SvenVanCaekenberghe > Time: 23 July 2017, 1:54:52.133003 pm > UUID: 5f81c280-5c11-0d00-a72e-7cd500db2a8c > Ancestors: Neo-CSV-Tests-PeterUhnak.21 > > make the core test in #writeOptionalQuotedField faster by using a primitive when possible > > add #testWideOptionalQuoted > === > > Extra caution was needed for WideStrings. > > Sven > > > Not sure what the next step is here: should I add it and send you mczs, or will you do it yourself? (it is a simple change). > > > > Peter > > > > On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 10:51:42PM +0200, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > >> Peter, > >> > >>> On 22 Jul 2017, at 22:27, Peter Uhnak <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi Sven, > >>> > >>> my use case was hand-edited CSVs (therefore the quotes are extra clutter), which imples that I would be hand-viewing/editing only small CSVs (no performance issues). > >>> > >>> I agree that we should err on the safe side with CR & LF (e.g. tools may sometimes autoconvert line endings). > >>> > >>> Regarding performance: > >>> > >>> #findFirstInString:inSet:startingAt: didn't work for me (not sure if bug, or I don't know how to use), so I've trried with inCharacterSet: > >> > >> Yes, it is a bitch to use, the the version you used does not use the primitive. > >> > >> Try playing with this: > >> > >> s10 := 'a' repeat: 10. > >> s100 := 'a' repeat: 100. > >> > >> searchSet := ByteArray new: 256 withAll: 0. > >> ',"', String crlf do: [ :each | searchSet at: each asInteger + 1 put: 1 ]. > >> > >> searchSet := (CharacterSet newFrom: ',"', String crlf) byteArrayMap. > >> > >> [ ByteString findFirstInString: s10 inSet: searchSet startingAt: 1 ] bench. > >> "15,160,161 per second" > >> [ ByteString findFirstInString: s100 inSet: searchSet startingAt: 1 ] bench. > >> "8,219,081 per second" > >> > >> ByteString findFirstInString: ',"', String crlf inSet: searchSet startingAt: 1. > >> > >> Sven > >> > >>> Tested on worst-case scenario - strings don't contain tested symbols. > >>> > >>> s10 := 'a' repeat: 10. > >>> s100 := 'a' repeat: 100. > >>> > >>> [ {'"'. ','. String cr. String lf } anySatisfy: [ :each | s10 includesSubstring: each ] ] bench. "'1,200,046 per second'" > >>> [ {'"'. ','. String cr. String lf } anySatisfy: [ :each | s100 includesSubstring: each ] ] bench. "'495,482 per second'" > >>> > >>> [ s10 includesAny: { $,. $". Character cr. Character lf } ] bench. "'2,819,416 per second'" > >>> [ s100 includesAny: { $,. $". Character cr. Character lf } ] bench. "'2,200,668 per second'" > >>> > >>> [ ByteString findFirstInString: s10 inCharacterSet: ',"', String crlf startingAt: 1 ] bench. "'1,187,324 per second'" > >>> [ ByteString findFirstInString: s100 inCharacterSet: ',"', String crlf startingAt: 1 ] bench. "'165,526 per second'" > >>> > >>> > >>> #includesAny: seems to be the best by far. > >>> > >>> Storing the tested characters didn't improve it by much. > >>> > >>> Peter > >>> > >>> On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 06:51:31PM +0200, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > >>>> Hi Peter, > >>>> > >>>>> On 22 Jul 2017, at 14:12, Peter Uhnak <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi, > >>>>> > >>>>> this is a continuation of an older thread about quoting fields only when necessary. ( http://forum.world.st/NeoCSVWriter-automatic-quotes-td4924781.html ) > >>>>> > >>>>> I've attached fileouts of NeoCSV packages with the addition (I don't know if Metacello can file-out only changesets). > >>>>> > >>>>> The change doesn't affect the default behavior, only when explicitly requested. > >>>>> > >>>>> Peter > >>>> > >>>> I accepted your changes as such, the .mcz's were copied over to the main repositories. This is a pure & clean extension, so that is good. Thank you. > >>>> > >>>> This option is always going to be slower, but the current implementation might be improved, I think. > >>>> > >>>> The key test in #writeOptionalQuotedField: > >>>> > >>>> { > >>>> lineEnd asString. > >>>> separator asString. > >>>> '"' } anySatisfy: [ :each | string includesSubstring: each ] > >>>> > >>>> will be quite slow. > >>>> > >>>> If we accept a little bit of (over safe) error on EOL and use any occurrence of CR or LF as needing a quote, we could switch to characters to test for. There exists a fast (primitive) test, #findFirstInString:inSet:startingAt: that can do all the testing in one go. If your version turns out to be slow, we could try that, if measurements show a difference. > >>>> > >>>> Regards, > >>>> > >>>> Sven > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > >

July 23, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] NeoCSV change proposal

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 23 Jul 2017, at 09:55, Peter Uhnak <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Ah, ByteArrayMap, I was trying ByteArray. ByteArrayMap is not a class, it is still a ByteArray, but of size 256 used as an inclusion map for characters that fit a byte. BTW, using CharacterSet as an abstraction makes the trick easier. I committed: === Name: Neo-CSV-Core-SvenVanCaekenberghe.26 Author: SvenVanCaekenberghe Time: 23 July 2017, 1:54:22.095185 pm UUID: e429f87e-5c11-0d00-a72d-ae5d00db2a8c Ancestors: Neo-CSV-Core-PeterUhnak.25 make the core test in #writeOptionalQuotedField faster by using a primitive when possible add #testWideOptionalQuoted === Name: Neo-CSV-Tests-SvenVanCaekenberghe.22 Author: SvenVanCaekenberghe Time: 23 July 2017, 1:54:52.133003 pm UUID: 5f81c280-5c11-0d00-a72e-7cd500db2a8c Ancestors: Neo-CSV-Tests-PeterUhnak.21 make the core test in #writeOptionalQuotedField faster by using a primitive when possible add #testWideOptionalQuoted === Extra caution was needed for WideStrings. Sven > Not sure what the next step is here: should I add it and send you mczs, or will you do it yourself? (it is a simple change). > > Peter > > On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 10:51:42PM +0200, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: >> Peter, >> >>> On 22 Jul 2017, at 22:27, Peter Uhnak <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Sven, >>> >>> my use case was hand-edited CSVs (therefore the quotes are extra clutter), which imples that I would be hand-viewing/editing only small CSVs (no performance issues). >>> >>> I agree that we should err on the safe side with CR & LF (e.g. tools may sometimes autoconvert line endings). >>> >>> Regarding performance: >>> >>> #findFirstInString:inSet:startingAt: didn't work for me (not sure if bug, or I don't know how to use), so I've trried with inCharacterSet: >> >> Yes, it is a bitch to use, the the version you used does not use the primitive. >> >> Try playing with this: >> >> s10 := 'a' repeat: 10. >> s100 := 'a' repeat: 100. >> >> searchSet := ByteArray new: 256 withAll: 0. >> ',"', String crlf do: [ :each | searchSet at: each asInteger + 1 put: 1 ]. >> >> searchSet := (CharacterSet newFrom: ',"', String crlf) byteArrayMap. >> >> [ ByteString findFirstInString: s10 inSet: searchSet startingAt: 1 ] bench. >> "15,160,161 per second" >> [ ByteString findFirstInString: s100 inSet: searchSet startingAt: 1 ] bench. >> "8,219,081 per second" >> >> ByteString findFirstInString: ',"', String crlf inSet: searchSet startingAt: 1. >> >> Sven >> >>> Tested on worst-case scenario - strings don't contain tested symbols. >>> >>> s10 := 'a' repeat: 10. >>> s100 := 'a' repeat: 100. >>> >>> [ {'"'. ','. String cr. String lf } anySatisfy: [ :each | s10 includesSubstring: each ] ] bench. "'1,200,046 per second'" >>> [ {'"'. ','. String cr. String lf } anySatisfy: [ :each | s100 includesSubstring: each ] ] bench. "'495,482 per second'" >>> >>> [ s10 includesAny: { $,. $". Character cr. Character lf } ] bench. "'2,819,416 per second'" >>> [ s100 includesAny: { $,. $". Character cr. Character lf } ] bench. "'2,200,668 per second'" >>> >>> [ ByteString findFirstInString: s10 inCharacterSet: ',"', String crlf startingAt: 1 ] bench. "'1,187,324 per second'" >>> [ ByteString findFirstInString: s100 inCharacterSet: ',"', String crlf startingAt: 1 ] bench. "'165,526 per second'" >>> >>> >>> #includesAny: seems to be the best by far. >>> >>> Storing the tested characters didn't improve it by much. >>> >>> Peter >>> >>> On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 06:51:31PM +0200, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: >>>> Hi Peter, >>>> >>>>> On 22 Jul 2017, at 14:12, Peter Uhnak <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> this is a continuation of an older thread about quoting fields only when necessary. ( http://forum.world.st/NeoCSVWriter-automatic-quotes-td4924781.html ) >>>>> >>>>> I've attached fileouts of NeoCSV packages with the addition (I don't know if Metacello can file-out only changesets). >>>>> >>>>> The change doesn't affect the default behavior, only when explicitly requested. >>>>> >>>>> Peter >>>> >>>> I accepted your changes as such, the .mcz's were copied over to the main repositories. This is a pure & clean extension, so that is good. Thank you. >>>> >>>> This option is always going to be slower, but the current implementation might be improved, I think. >>>> >>>> The key test in #writeOptionalQuotedField: >>>> >>>> { >>>> lineEnd asString. >>>> separator asString. >>>> '"' } anySatisfy: [ :each | string includesSubstring: each ] >>>> >>>> will be quite slow. >>>> >>>> If we accept a little bit of (over safe) error on EOL and use any occurrence of CR or LF as needing a quote, we could switch to characters to test for. There exists a fast (primitive) test, #findFirstInString:inSet:startingAt: that can do all the testing in one go. If your version turns out to be slow, we could try that, if measurements show a difference. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Sven >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >

July 23, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Critical issues for Dr. Geo on P6

by Hilaire

I really find it hard to believe !! Le 22/07/2017 Ã 12:04, Stephane Ducasse a Ã©crit : > Yes but there are not concrete enough for me:) -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

July 23, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Why do we separate class/instance methods in the browser?

by Stephane Ducasse

Hi subbu I used the same metaphor :) Stef On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 4:37 PM, K K Subbu <kksubbu.ml(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Saturday 22 July 2017 06:51 PM, Tim Mackinnon wrote: > >> The one that stuck out for me (and is actually mentioned in another >> thread this week) was the class/instance method difference. They >> conceptually understood the difference coming from other languages >> but our UI is tricky to understand with the Class button toggle we >> have, and if you get methods on the wrong side, like with a test, >> it's quite confusing. > > > It is an easy mistake to make and I have often seen this confusion in > beginners. With the attention on the methods panel and text input, it is > easy to overlook the class toggle button :-(. > > An easy fix is to switch background color to differentiate between class and > instance methods in both code and input panels. A better way would be to use > tabs (like in Inspector). > > BTW, I use the metaphor of toys (objects), moulds (classes) and mould > factory (metaclass). A mould is an object from the perspective of the mould > maker. Therefore operations on classes are 'methods' from the maker's > perspective (note the recursion!). > >> Anyway - this got me thinking - why do we bother having a toggle in >> our UI for this these days? Of course we know there is a class and a >> metaclass but given that we have icons for methods now (and also have >> a Protocol pane ) why don't we just show all the methods we have in >> one list and let you filter them or even see them all? It seems much >> easier and way more efficient to rapidly code this way. > > > This perspective comes from the traditional way - code and compile. In > Pharo, we code one method at a time and sources are held in an external file > and a pointer stored in each method, so displaying all methods in one panel > would result in multiple file reads. > >> The only question then would be how to create methods of the right >> type - whether to have a button to create the right template (and put >> the browser code pane in the right context) or whether to indicate >> it by convention of the method name when creating it like + new: >> aSize etc. (Or even: class new: aSize etc). >> >> The more I think about it, the more it seems like something we should >> consider trying both for making ourselves more efficient (I'll bet >> everyone has written a method on the wrong side by mistake) and also >> helping newcomers. > > > Such mistakes are part of the learning curve and decrease with time. > > Regards .. Subbu >

July 23, 2017