February 2017 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] WCAG color contrast rules - was: Re: These beautiful tooltips

by Hilaire

Damned you are inferring a lot on my writing, but I understand now. In my previous post I had no argument against the *new* debugger, nor I wrote its interface degraded. I just made an absolute remark regarding lack of information on non obvious function, in the debugger in my example, which apply to both P3 and P5. Don't make it personal, it is not. Btw in the past I wrote I see no reason to complain about the top positioning of the buttons, you see... As you wrote about comparing Pharo3 and Pharo5 debugger tooltips, now I think the situation improve because there is a least shortcut mentioned in the tips. But still a description of each button is in my opinion more than needed. Le 04/02/2017 Ã 08:34, Tudor Girba a Ã©crit : > Could you point me to where the interface has degraded and how the > tooltips decrease value? > -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

Feb. 4, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] WCAG color contrast rules - was: Re: These beautiful tooltips

by stepharong

On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 22:20:28 +0100, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: > UI quality team could be fun. > > Here are some ideas how it could be organised: > > - at least 3/5/7 persons looking at issues and reporting it. Why three? > Easier to decide and UI may for some part be very opinionated > These persons could discuss how to fix it, if no consensus, the team > could ask to the whole community @devel. > > - should the team discuss on a dedicated mailing list? May be to avoid > too much noise on @devel... > > - the team will look mostly at non blocking bugs, ones in the sphere of > "First impression count", so it can be clarity of the UI (message, tips, > color, etc) or some annoying bugs regarding usability > > - the team should be able to fix itself most of these issues. > > How does it sound? good but will we find these people? > > Hilaire > > Le 03/02/2017 Ã 12:25, Serge Stinckwich a Ã©crit : >> I like the idea of a UI quality team and more dedicated teams should >> be built maybe on documentation, CI, etc ... >> I guess for an UI quality team, the first step is to propose a process >> on how to assess the quality of a release. > -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Feb. 4, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] WCAG color contrast rules - was: Re: These beautiful tooltips

by stepharong

It would be nice to have a palette class with some nice defaults. Cyril could you package what you have in MDL out of MDL so that we can add it to Pharo? Stef > And there are useful A11Y (Accessibility combos down the page) > > http://clrs.cc/a11y/ > > Phil > > On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 7:38 PM, stepharong <stepharong(a)free.fr> wrote: >> On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 13:52:54 +0100, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: >> >>> I would like to help in both accessibility and implementation detail of >>> the theme. In the other hand I fell we are in such flux with the future >>> UI in Pharo. What are the grounds we can stand on regarding UI? >> >> Improve now. >> Think later. >> Bloc/Brick will not be ready before some versions of Pharo. >> >>> >>> Hilaire >>> >>> Le 31/01/2017 Ã 11:21, phil(a)highoctane.be a >>> Ã©crit : >>>> Well there is no subclass of GLMBrickColorThemer so dark themes get >>>> hardcoded light colors in places for example. >>>> >>> >>>>> >> >>>> -- >> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >> >> > -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Feb. 4, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] WCAG color contrast rules - was: Re: These beautiful tooltips

by stepharong

Hilaire can you create bug entry to little usability glitches. Esteban told me that he will do a pass. Stef On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 09:21:18 +0100, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: > A UI quality team review would be needed before each Pharo release, I > mean with a real constraint to postpone release until a good enough > quality is reached! > In that context I can help. > > There are many place where tiny efforts could make the UI so much better > for newcomers. > > For example when I saw the debugger tooltips, there are just helpless, > their contents are the same as the button label, not acceptable!!! > > I can't understand the difference between 'over' and 'through'. I guess > other may think I don't understand the difference because I am an idiot, > but I guess there are a lot of idiots out there, and these are the ones > we want to come and *to stay* with Pharo! > > So any wish to *really* improve the UI quality, or just words? > > Hilaire > > > Le 02/02/2017 Ã 19:38, stepharong a Ã©crit : >> On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 13:52:54 +0100, Hilaire >> <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: >> >>> I would like to help in both accessibility and implementation detail of >>> the theme. In the other hand I fell we are in such flux with the future >>> UI in Pharo. What are the grounds we can stand on regarding UI? >> >> Improve now. >> Think later. >> Bloc/Brick will not be ready before some versions of Pharo. > -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Feb. 4, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] WCAG color contrast rules - was: Re: These beautiful tooltips

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Well, we got a real Debugger Model which says: DebugSession>>#stepInto: aContext "Send the selected message in selectedContext, and take control in the method invoked to allow further step or send." DebugSession>>#stepOver: aContext "Send the selected message in selectedContext, and regain control after the invoked method returns." DebugSession>>#stepThrough: aContext "Send messages until you return to selectedContext. Used to step into a block in the method." I must admit that Over vs Through confuses the hell out of me, but playing with it, this is one feature I should have learned to use much earlier! My interpretation now is: Through is just like Over but it will stop again whenever the context becomes the current one while doing the Over. And you are right: it is very useful when dealing with iteration blocks, since each time inside one of the blocks used as arguments, the debugger will stop, and you can trace the execution. Try Debug It on the following expression: #(1 2 3 4 5) sum. Start by stepping Into the #sum, next step Over the first assignment (sample := self anyOne) and then use Through for the #inject:into: iteration and observe how you get control back each time through (aha) the block [:accum :each | accum + each]. Pretty cool actually. > On 4 Feb 2017, at 17:10, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > >>> On Feb 3, 2017, at 13:29, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: >>> >>> what are the differences between 'over' and 'through' buttons in the >>> debugger. > > On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 8:09 AM, John Pfersich <jpfersich(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> The over button means step over the message highlighted, the through button means step into the message highlighted and single step through the statements in the message. > > I'm not sure if I am correct, but more than stepping over/through messages, > I normally think about it as how blocks are handled. > > Over is step over a block. > Through is step through a block. > > Try debugging this, purely with Over and then purely with Through... > self inform: '1'. > #(2 3 4) do: [:n| self inform: n printString ]. > self inform: '5'. > > However its not completely about blocks, since Over versus Through > has little difference on debugging this... > self inform: '1'. > 2 to: 4 do: [:n| self inform: n printString ]. > self inform: '5'. > > So it seems it affects a certain subset of messages, > which is at least the usual enumeration messages... > #do: #collect: #select: #detect: > but I don't know what the comprehensive list is. > > So maybe that it another way to define the difference > Over steps over enumeration of a block > Through step through enumeration of a block > > or... > Over steps of iteration of a block > Through step through iteration of a block > > I'm not sure which is more correct. > cheers -ben >

Feb. 4, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] WCAG color contrast rules - was: Re: These beautiful tooltips

by Ben Coman

> > On Feb 3, 2017, at 13:29, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: > > > > what are the differences between 'over' and 'through' buttons in the > > debugger. On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 8:09 AM, John Pfersich <jpfersich(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > The over button means step over the message highlighted, the through button means step into the message highlighted and single step through the statements in the message. I'm not sure if I am correct, but more than stepping over/through messages, I normally think about it as how blocks are handled. Over is step over a block. Through is step through a block. Try debugging this, purely with Over and then purely with Through... self inform: '1'. #(2 3 4) do: [:n| self inform: n printString ]. self inform: '5'. However its not completely about blocks, since Over versus Through has little difference on debugging this... self inform: '1'. 2 to: 4 do: [:n| self inform: n printString ]. self inform: '5'. So it seems it affects a certain subset of messages, which is at least the usual enumeration messages... #do: #collect: #select: #detect: but I don't know what the comprehensive list is. So maybe that it another way to define the difference Over steps over enumeration of a block Through step through enumeration of a block or... Over steps of iteration of a block Through step through iteration of a block I'm not sure which is more correct. cheers -ben

Feb. 4, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] WCAG color contrast rules - was: Re: These beautiful tooltips

by Tudor Girba

Hi Hilaire, I did not reinterpret your intention. I gave you feedback. You can take it into account or not. But, I actually do not understand where the original problem comes from. I probably miss something and that is why please allow me to describe what I see and then you can indicate more concretely where the issue comes from. This whole discussion was spawned on the premise that things are degrading going forward from Pharo 3.0 to 6.0, and the debugger actions was one issue. Here is a screenshot of a Pharo 3 debugger: Now, letâs look at the debugger from 6.0. The main actions that exist in Pharo 6 also exist in Pharo 3 including Over and Through. These actions exist also in Pharo 1. Furthermore, in the Pharo 3 debugger (which is also available in Pharo 6), there are no tooltips. The main goal of the tooltip from GTDebugger is to offer the shortcuts associated with the buttons. There were shortcuts associated to the debugger actions in Pharo 3, but when looking at the buttons this information was not offered directly. Could you point me to where the interface has degraded and how the tooltips decrease value? Cheers, Doru > On Feb 3, 2017, at 10:29 PM, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: > > > > Le 03/02/2017 Ã 17:12, Tudor Girba a Ã©crit : >> Unfortunately, your message sounded like an angry complaint and this often has the tendency to stifle collaboration. As I am sure this was not your intention, letâs try to take that energy and transform it into something positive that can lead to action. >> >> Concretely: You complained about the text in the tooltips. I understand that you do not have time to fix the code, but here is what you can easily do: propose the concrete pieces of text that would work for you and we can take it from there. >> >> What do you say? > > I say we have an important misunderstanding, it would have been better > you re-read my previous post than trying to interpret my intention. > > The only way to respond to you is to ask you to explain me, if you know, > what are the differences between 'over' and 'through' buttons in the > debugger. > Then I may be able to word tooltips for these two buttons, but you will > have already word it in your explanation I guess. > Ok we are just making round circle here ;) > > I guess a UI quality team could see that sort of tiny itches and ask to > the community, then fix it. > > Hilaire > > -- > Dr. Geo > http://drgeo.eu > > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Every now and then stop and ask yourself if the war you're fighting is the right one."

Feb. 4, 2017

Discord now offers search

by Dimitris Chloupis

One of the things missing from our Discord online chat channel to make it as good as Slack was the very valuable search feature which was added this week by the Discord team. So now with Discord we have similar features to Slack, voice chat, unlimited amount of message while slack limits them to 10k and a search feature.

Feb. 4, 2017

Slack Invites doesn't work correctly

by mldavis＠chaparralwest.com

In the milestone release of Pharo By Example 5: "Pharo is also active on Slack - a platform for chat based on IRC (http: //pharoproject.slack.com), just ask for an invitation at http://slackinvites.pharo.org. Everybody is welcomed." However, http://slackinvites.pharo.org goes to what appears to be an invalid page. How can a user get access to Pharo on slack? --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Feb. 4, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] WCAG color contrast rules - was: Re: These beautiful tooltips

by John Pfersich

The over button means step over the message highlighted, the through button means step into the message highlighted and single step through the statements in the message. Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 3, 2017, at 13:29, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: > > > >> Le 03/02/2017 Ã 17:12, Tudor Girba a Ã©crit : >> Unfortunately, your message sounded like an angry complaint and this often has the tendency to stifle collaboration. As I am sure this was not your intention, letâs try to take that energy and transform it into something positive that can lead to action. >> >> Concretely: You complained about the text in the tooltips. I understand that you do not have time to fix the code, but here is what you can easily do: propose the concrete pieces of text that would work for you and we can take it from there. >> >> What do you say? > > I say we have an important misunderstanding, it would have been better > you re-read my previous post than trying to interpret my intention. > > The only way to respond to you is to ask you to explain me, if you know, > what are the differences between 'over' and 'through' buttons in the > debugger. > Then I may be able to word tooltips for these two buttons, but you will > have already word it in your explanation I guess. > Ok we are just making round circle here ;) > > I guess a UI quality team could see that sort of tiny itches and ask to > the community, then fix it. > > Hilaire > > -- > Dr. Geo > http://drgeo.eu > >

Feb. 4, 2017