February 2017 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] Slack, fragmentation and design information

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 10 Feb 2017, at 11:28, Serge Stinckwich <serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi Stephan, >> >>> On 10 Feb 2017, at 10:27, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: >>> >>> The past year we have started using Slack to communicate in real-time about Pharo. It has nice (mobile) clients and makes it easy to share pictures and snippets. As a result a large part of the communication about design and how to do things has moved from the mailing lists to Slack. As we're using the free version, and cannot afford to use the commercial version, we have no long-time storage of the design discussions. This contrasts with our mailing lists, that have a long-term archive. There was some discussion about this, and I'm not aware of that resulting in an accessible, easy to access archive. Also, we have not succeeded in summarizing design discussions from slack to the mailing lists. The resulting gap in design information forms an enormous long-term risk for our community. Without the design discussions it is much more difficult to later understand why decisions were taken. We cannot afford to let this short-term ease-of-use destroy Pharo's community history, and thereby Pharo. Let us fix this. > > Yes I agree with your concerns. > >> I share many of what you sayâ¦ but in the other point of view, Slack as really worked and there is a lot more happening now in Slack + mailing list than what was before just in mailing list. >> But most of that is lost because of Slack policies (also Slack pricing model is impossible for a community as ours), and we need to find a solution for that. > > Yes this is too expensive for the Pharo consortium ? yes it is. Is just not prepared for open source communities like ours. > >> Last days we were experimenting with @kilon again on use discord as a substitute and I find that for now it works really well and with a bit of work we can have all what you want: discord incorporated a search function (and they do not have the 10k limit) and we could do a bot that logs everything that happens there and stores that into gists (or whatever, but gists seems like a good idea). >> >> With this we would have enhanced the availability of those discussions (it remains the fact that immediate communication is worst organised than mails, but wellâ¦ we need to try) > > and move all the community on discord ? this is what I would like to propose, because... > Or use an open-source slack the problem with this is that we have to host itâ¦ and then is more problems for maintenance, etc. Esteban > like : https://about.mattermost.com/ > and host our own chat server. > > -- > Serge Stinckwich > UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) > Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk > http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/ >

Feb. 10, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] Slack, fragmentation and design information

by Serge Stinckwich

On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Stephan, > >> On 10 Feb 2017, at 10:27, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: >> >> The past year we have started using Slack to communicate in real-time about Pharo. It has nice (mobile) clients and makes it easy to share pictures and snippets. As a result a large part of the communication about design and how to do things has moved from the mailing lists to Slack. As we're using the free version, and cannot afford to use the commercial version, we have no long-time storage of the design discussions. This contrasts with our mailing lists, that have a long-term archive. There was some discussion about this, and I'm not aware of that resulting in an accessible, easy to access archive. Also, we have not succeeded in summarizing design discussions from slack to the mailing lists. The resulting gap in design information forms an enormous long-term risk for our community. Without the design discussions it is much more difficult to later understand why decisions were taken. We cannot afford to let this short-term ease-of-use destroy Pharo's community history, and thereby Pharo. Let us fix this. Yes I agree with your concerns. > I share many of what you sayâ¦ but in the other point of view, Slack as really worked and there is a lot more happening now in Slack + mailing list than what was before just in mailing list. > But most of that is lost because of Slack policies (also Slack pricing model is impossible for a community as ours), and we need to find a solution for that. Yes this is too expensive for the Pharo consortium ? > Last days we were experimenting with @kilon again on use discord as a substitute and I find that for now it works really well and with a bit of work we can have all what you want: discord incorporated a search function (and they do not have the 10k limit) and we could do a bot that logs everything that happens there and stores that into gists (or whatever, but gists seems like a good idea). > > With this we would have enhanced the availability of those discussions (it remains the fact that immediate communication is worst organised than mails, but wellâ¦ we need to try) and move all the community on discord ? Or use an open-source slack like : https://about.mattermost.com/ and host our own chat server. -- Serge Stinckwich UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

Feb. 10, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] Slack, fragmentation and design information

by Esteban Lorenzano

Hi Stephan, > On 10 Feb 2017, at 10:27, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: > > The past year we have started using Slack to communicate in real-time about Pharo. It has nice (mobile) clients and makes it easy to share pictures and snippets. As a result a large part of the communication about design and how to do things has moved from the mailing lists to Slack. As we're using the free version, and cannot afford to use the commercial version, we have no long-time storage of the design discussions. This contrasts with our mailing lists, that have a long-term archive. There was some discussion about this, and I'm not aware of that resulting in an accessible, easy to access archive. Also, we have not succeeded in summarizing design discussions from slack to the mailing lists. The resulting gap in design information forms an enormous long-term risk for our community. Without the design discussions it is much more difficult to later understand why decisions were taken. We cannot afford to let this short-term ease-of-use destroy Pharo's community history, and thereby Pharo. Let us fix this. I share many of what you sayâ¦ but in the other point of view, Slack as really worked and there is a lot more happening now in Slack + mailing list than what was before just in mailing list. But most of that is lost because of Slack policies (also Slack pricing model is impossible for a community as ours), and we need to find a solution for that. Last days we were experimenting with @kilon again on use discord as a substitute and I find that for now it works really well and with a bit of work we can have all what you want: discord incorporated a search function (and they do not have the 10k limit) and we could do a bot that logs everything that happens there and stores that into gists (or whatever, but gists seems like a good idea). With this we would have enhanced the availability of those discussions (it remains the fact that immediate communication is worst organised than mails, but wellâ¦ we need to try) Esteban > > Stephan > >

Feb. 10, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] [Teapot and Voyage] sending over the voyageId

by Norbert Hartl

NeoJSON is not bound to use instVars. Look at the method mapAccessor: and friends. Norbert > Am 09.02.2017 um 22:50 schrieb sergio ruiz <sergio.rrd(a)gmail.com>: > > > I am working on the U of the CRUD part of my Teapot/Voyage REST interface, and found that I cannot get the voyageId to be delivered as part of the REST response.. > > in order to do RUD, I will need that in the feed. > > the problem is that NeoJSON uses the instance variables to JSON encode the object. > > to circumvent this, i made an instance variable called âidâ.. and made an accessor like so: > > id > ^ self voyageId value > > so i can do something like > > station id -> â23434234234243423432â > > but when i inspect the object, or send it back from voyage, id is nil.. > > rather than mirror voyageâs _id, i would like access to it in JSON encoding, but i can see that might be a problem.. > > any ideas? > > thanks! > > ---- > peace, > sergio > photographer, journalist, visionary > > Public Key: http://bit.ly/29z9fG0 > #BitMessage BM-NBaswViL21xqgg9STRJjaJaUoyiNe2dV > http://www.Village-Buzz.com > http://www.ThoseOptimizeGuys.com > http://www.coffee-black.com > http://www.painlessfrugality.com > http://www.twitter.com/sergio_101 > http://www.facebook.com/sergio101

Feb. 10, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Problem in installing Pharo â Solved thanks to you

by Ben Coman

Thanks for the followup. Great to hear its working. Just a minor one thing. Can you see if your email client has a "Text Only" send feature that can apply to the mail list? Your font ends up too large & bold here (its nice to have all the mails a standard size), and some of the list archiving software interacts badly with formatted text. Hope you have fun with Pharo and we see you back on the list with more questions soon. cheers -ben On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 6:59 AM, Mark Neagu <mark(a)mneagu.fr> wrote: > Hi! > > Several nice persons mailed me to help: Sven, Dimitris, Ben, Nicole. > > Now everything works fine and I'm studying the tutorial. > > You people are really helpful and there is no doubt the PHARO language is > promised to a briliant future thanks to its qualities and to your dedication > at making it work. > > Best regards, > > Mark

Feb. 10, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Final rush for submitting GSOC proposal - Need your help

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

Excellent! I will create the proposal to have it ready for tomorrow. Jupyter support could be nice, but I would think is some kind of ZeroMQ support really. That would enable multiple kernels inside Pharo with the advantages of live coding, powerful inspectors and debuggers, not present in the Jupyter notebook interface. Hydrogen[1] and nteract[2][3] are taking this route of enabling Jupyter kernels inside desktop apps with results far more interesting that what is possible on the web interface. [1] https://github.com/nteract/hydrogen [2] https://nteract.io/ [3] https://github.com/nteract/nteract Cheers, Offray On 09/02/17 12:57, serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com wrote: > You mean, you would be the student ? ;-) > I can be the mentor. This is nice if we have one subject with already one student. > > We would like to add a subject with Nick about Jupyter support for Pharo. > > > > EnvoyÃ© de mon iPhone > >> Le 9 fÃ©vr. 2017 Ã 18:18, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas <offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> a Ã©crit : >> >> Hi, >> >> As I said, I would like to work on Grafoscopio for the GSOC, but I lack a supervisor. I even can work on the proposal but I would need a supervisor to help me with the GTTools-Spec related issues and improving test coverage and code quality where needed. Is possible to create a project in this "reverse" way (from a candidate looking for a supervisor)? If yes, any supervisor would be interested? Any other suggested route to get Grafoscopio in the Summer of code? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Offray >> >> >>> On 09/02/17 11:05, Serge Stinckwich wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> we are currently working with Alexandre to submit the gsoc proposal to Google. >>> I was a little bit busy with my lectures and I didn't check the >>> current proposals available here: >>> >>> http://gsoc.pharo.org/ >>> >>> but all the projects are coming from RMOD team, but having all the >>> projects proposal coming from the same place might be perceived >>> negatively from Google. Can we add more projects from previous gsoc >>> form other people also ? >>> >>> We have only one hour to polish the list. >>> Thank you for your help. >>> >> >

Feb. 9, 2017

Problem in installing Pharo â Solved thanks to you

by Mark Neagu

Feb. 9, 2017

[Teapot and Voyage] sending over the voyageId

by sergio ruiz

I am working on the U of the CRUD part of my Teapot/Voyage REST interface, and found that I cannot get the voyageId to be delivered as part of the REST response.. in order to do RUD, I will need that in the feed. the problem is that NeoJSON uses the instance variables to JSON encode the object. to circumvent this, i made an instance variable called âidâ.. and made an accessor like so: id ^ self voyageId value so i can do something like station id -> â23434234234243423432â but when i inspect the object, or send it back from voyage, id is nil.. rather than mirror voyageâs _id, i would like access to it in JSON encoding, but i can see that might be a problem.. any ideas? thanks! ---- peace, sergio photographer, journalist, visionary Public Key:Â http://bit.ly/29z9fG0 #BitMessageÂ BM-NBaswViL21xqgg9STRJjaJaUoyiNe2dV http://www.Village-Buzz.com http://www.ThoseOptimizeGuys.com http://www.coffee-black.com http://www.painlessfrugality.com http://www.twitter.com/sergio_101 http://www.facebook.com/sergio101

Feb. 9, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Problem in installing Pharo

by Nicole de Graaf

Hi Mark, can you make you problem more specific. Can you not start or do you crash after start? You donât need to install the Pharo image only copy over into a âfavouredâ directory. I downloaded the http://pharo.org/download and paste it into a directory and it working well on my Win 7 environment without any pharo installation yet. Regards, Nic > On 09 Feb 2017, at 20:08, Mark Neagu <mark(a)mneagu.fr> wrote: > > Hi Ben, > > I'm on Windows. > > Regards, > > Mark > > Le 9 fÃ©vrier 2017 Ã 18:52, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> a Ã©crit : > > Hi Mark, > What platform are you on? > cheers -ben > > On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 1:09 AM, Dimitris Chloupis > > <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > if you are on macos or linux you can use this command to download the stable > version > > curl get.pharo.org | bash > > I use this all the time and it never fails, unless the server is down or I > do not have an internet connection > > you can execute Pharo running > > ./pharo-ui Pharo.image > > By the way Pharo needs no installation because its self reliant so it can be > run from a folder directly. We do have however an installer for Windows to > make things simpler for those not familiar with the terminal. > > On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 6:03 PM Mark Neagu <mark(a)mneagu.fr> wrote: > > > > Hi! > > I got a problem trying to install Pharo 5.0 despite I downloaded the whole > thing as specified (I believe) and unziped it properly. > > Could someone help me please? > > I'm not a beginner in programming, but I'm retired for a while and I'm no > longer surrounded by knowledgeable colleagues. > > Regards, > > Mark >

Feb. 9, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Problem in installing Pharo

by Mark Neagu

Feb. 9, 2017