November 2017 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] X11 options on Ubuntu VM / Athens rendering problems

by J.F. Rick

Just a quick follow up: We've found that if we are in fullscreen Pharo mode on Linux and hit the ALT button twice, the Athens-based rendering speeds up significantly. The first ALT brings the Unity launcher to the foreground. The second ALT bring fullscreen Pharo back to the foreground. I'm not sure why this makes Athens rendering faster but it does. Perhaps that offers a clue as to what is slowing Pharo down in fullscreen on Linux. Cheers, Jeff On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 2:56 PM Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: > We tested it on P6.1 64bits, and this Cairo crash seems to be gone. It > may need more testing though. > > Is it thanks to P6.1 or the 64bits image/VM? It looks strange because it > looked like a lib Cairo crash, but in the other hand the faulty C > function did not appear to be called from Pharo image. > > What need to be done porting to P6.1, is mainly image shrinking, fix of > several bugs from P6.1 impacting drgeo, working setup for > linux/windows/mac. Still some job. > > Hilaire > > Le 02/10/2017 Ã 15:19, Stephane Ducasse a Ã©crit : > > How could we help? > > > > > > On Sun, Oct 1, 2017 at 9:14 PM, Hilaire<hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: > >> I had situation where the system libcairo:i386 does not work with > Dr.Geo[1], > >> Pharo crashes with what looks like a Cairo crash! Looks like not a Pharo > >> fault, but I am definitely stuck. > >> > >> It is problematic, it is a system (LinuxMint based) used in Geneva > primary > >> schools and Dr. Geo was expected to be used there:( > >> > >> Hilaire > >> > >> [1]http://forum.world.st/Cairo-related-crash-with-Dr-Geo-tt4952023.html > >> > >> > >> Le 01/10/2017 Ã 19:50, Igor Stasenko a Ã©crit : > >>> All these difficulties are good argument to get the appropriate > >>> libcairo/libpng shipped with the Linux VM, as done with Windows > >>> and MacOSX VM > >>> > >>> Nah, in my case, there's nothing that can be lableled as "Pharo > fault". It > >>> is definitely a linux/ubuntu ecosystem fault. - by not providing > parallel > >>> updates for 32 & 64 bit variant of same library. > >> -- > >> Dr. Geo > >> http://drgeo.eu > >> > >> > >> > > -- > Dr. Geo > http://drgeo.eu > > > >

Nov. 6, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earningalivingfromSmalltalk

by Andrew Glynn

Btw, did Self ever work? At all? The last I remember it was in a similar state to Electron without the M$ adds in Visual Studio, i.e. the samples from the site donât build. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Thierry Goubier Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 2:48 PM To: pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earningalivingfromSmalltalk Hi Andrew, Le 06/11/2017 Ã 19:59, Andrew Glynn a Ã©critÂ : > I /suspect/ that a (mostly repressed) underlying sense that a reliable, > inexpensive platform, if popular, would have been more detrimental to > IBM than to its smaller competitors. The same goes for the VisualAge > family -> Smalltalk (sold now by Instantiations at v. 9.0), Java, C++ > and COBOL.Â One of the (largely unthought) reasons for Smalltalkâs > difficulties in the 1990âs, when hardware could run it decently, was > that it took a fair number of resources/time to write a decent version, > while using it would have been a bigger advantage to smaller companies > than to the companies with the money to develop one. Â The result was > that only a few, very expensive versions were publicly available.Â VA > Smalltalk still retails at ~$8500 / seat. > > Those kinds of hazy (because not admitted to oneself) reasons for doing > things end up resulting in apparently contradictory actions such as > spending large amounts writing something, releasing it, then failing to > support it with any sales or marketing push, and even actively > undermining it.Â Nobody wants to fully admit that inefficiencies are > actually to their advantage, which is the reason itâs repressed > (implying both known /and/ not known, simultaneously). > > Iâm totally speculating of course and may be dead wrong, but it fits > with other IBM actions and non-actions.Â IBM is a strange company that > sees itself, partly for good reason, as a business that must make money > /and/ as an international resource that must continue to exist. Though > the latter depends to a degree on the former, they donât always imply > the same specific decisions. > > Interestingly, to prove the scalability of a VM based system IBM wrote > âRVMâ (originally meaning âRenaissance VMâ), and proved near linear > scaling to 1024 cores, but RVM is a VM for Squeak and earlier versions > of Pharo, not IBM Smalltalk (the source is available, on GitHub I believe). https://github.com/smarr/RoarVM I wouldn't say it is IBM, instead that it is David Ungar work (of Self and a few other things)... Has probably ties to the Jikes RVM as well. > Arca Noae (meaning âNew Boxâ), the company that released v.5.0 in June, > was set up because too many big customers canât migrate crucial apps > from OS/2 to anything else.Â The new version looks more modern, > borrowing icons and other things from Linux, mainly KDE.Â It can run a > fair number of Win32 apps, and supports virtually all modern hardware, > scaling to 128 threads and 16GB RAM, though itâs still 32 bit in most > senses. > > As you can imagine, given the base requirements are a Pentium Pro with > 64MB RAM, on an average laptop today it flies. I'm not nostalgic, but the object model and how it was handling versionning was cool. Anybody remember Taligent? Thierry > > Andrew > > Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for > Windows 10 > > *From: *Richard Sargent <mailto:rsargent@5x5.on.ca> > *Sent: *Monday, November 6, 2017 11:55 AM > *To: *'Any question about pharo is welcome' > <mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> > *Subject: *Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earning > alivingfromSmalltalk > > Andrew, > > I worked with OS/2 in the early 90s and really liked it; I adopted it > for my personal use as well. I really enjoyed reading the details you > provided earlier. > > I have a hypothesis that when IBM tried to sell OS/2 (Warp) via a retail > channel that it "hurt". A company whose DNA was channel sales would find > dealing with retail issues to be entirely different from everything they > knew. So, I speculate that there were enough people to felt (and argued) > that OS/2 wasn't "worth it". > > Any thoughts you would care to share on that supposition would be > appreciated. > > *From:*Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] *On > Behalf Of *Andrew Glynn > *Sent:* November 6, 2017 04:18 > *To:* Any question about pharo is welcome > *Subject:* Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earning a > livingfromSmalltalk > > Thank you.Â I will see if I can get to it today or tomorrow. > > Andrew > > Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for > Windows 10 > > *From: *Davorin Rusevljan <mailto:davorin.rusevljan@gmail.com> > *Sent: *Monday, November 6, 2017 4:17 AM > *To: *Any question about pharo is welcome > <mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> > *Subject: *Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earning a > livingfromSmalltalk > > On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 7:59 PM, Andrew Glynn <aglynn42(a)gmail.com > <mailto:aglynn42@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Your history is accurate, but thereâs a few things IâdÂ like to add, > due to having been employed by IBM at exactly that period working > specifically on VisualAge, not only for Smalltalk, but for Java, C++ > and Cobol as well.Â (my NDAâs finally having expired also helps > ð).Â Itâs not a correction or contradiction, but a complement to > your description, providing a relevant but different perspective. > > Andrew, > > please find a way to write an article or blog post on this subject. It > is priceless. > > davorin >

Nov. 6, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earningalivingfromSmalltalk

by Andrew Glynn

I see you appreciate Mr. Ungar almost as little as I do Roy Fielding â¦ Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Thierry Goubier Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 2:48 PM To: pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earningalivingfromSmalltalk Hi Andrew, Le 06/11/2017 Ã 19:59, Andrew Glynn a Ã©critÂ : > I /suspect/ that a (mostly repressed) underlying sense that a reliable, > inexpensive platform, if popular, would have been more detrimental to > IBM than to its smaller competitors. The same goes for the VisualAge > family -> Smalltalk (sold now by Instantiations at v. 9.0), Java, C++ > and COBOL.Â One of the (largely unthought) reasons for Smalltalkâs > difficulties in the 1990âs, when hardware could run it decently, was > that it took a fair number of resources/time to write a decent version, > while using it would have been a bigger advantage to smaller companies > than to the companies with the money to develop one. Â The result was > that only a few, very expensive versions were publicly available.Â VA > Smalltalk still retails at ~$8500 / seat. > > Those kinds of hazy (because not admitted to oneself) reasons for doing > things end up resulting in apparently contradictory actions such as > spending large amounts writing something, releasing it, then failing to > support it with any sales or marketing push, and even actively > undermining it.Â Nobody wants to fully admit that inefficiencies are > actually to their advantage, which is the reason itâs repressed > (implying both known /and/ not known, simultaneously). > > Iâm totally speculating of course and may be dead wrong, but it fits > with other IBM actions and non-actions.Â IBM is a strange company that > sees itself, partly for good reason, as a business that must make money > /and/ as an international resource that must continue to exist. Though > the latter depends to a degree on the former, they donât always imply > the same specific decisions. > > Interestingly, to prove the scalability of a VM based system IBM wrote > âRVMâ (originally meaning âRenaissance VMâ), and proved near linear > scaling to 1024 cores, but RVM is a VM for Squeak and earlier versions > of Pharo, not IBM Smalltalk (the source is available, on GitHub I believe). https://github.com/smarr/RoarVM I wouldn't say it is IBM, instead that it is David Ungar work (of Self and a few other things)... Has probably ties to the Jikes RVM as well. > Arca Noae (meaning âNew Boxâ), the company that released v.5.0 in June, > was set up because too many big customers canât migrate crucial apps > from OS/2 to anything else.Â The new version looks more modern, > borrowing icons and other things from Linux, mainly KDE.Â It can run a > fair number of Win32 apps, and supports virtually all modern hardware, > scaling to 128 threads and 16GB RAM, though itâs still 32 bit in most > senses. > > As you can imagine, given the base requirements are a Pentium Pro with > 64MB RAM, on an average laptop today it flies. I'm not nostalgic, but the object model and how it was handling versionning was cool. Anybody remember Taligent? Thierry > > Andrew > > Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for > Windows 10 > > *From: *Richard Sargent <mailto:rsargent@5x5.on.ca> > *Sent: *Monday, November 6, 2017 11:55 AM > *To: *'Any question about pharo is welcome' > <mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> > *Subject: *Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earning > alivingfromSmalltalk > > Andrew, > > I worked with OS/2 in the early 90s and really liked it; I adopted it > for my personal use as well. I really enjoyed reading the details you > provided earlier. > > I have a hypothesis that when IBM tried to sell OS/2 (Warp) via a retail > channel that it "hurt". A company whose DNA was channel sales would find > dealing with retail issues to be entirely different from everything they > knew. So, I speculate that there were enough people to felt (and argued) > that OS/2 wasn't "worth it". > > Any thoughts you would care to share on that supposition would be > appreciated. > > *From:*Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] *On > Behalf Of *Andrew Glynn > *Sent:* November 6, 2017 04:18 > *To:* Any question about pharo is welcome > *Subject:* Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earning a > livingfromSmalltalk > > Thank you.Â I will see if I can get to it today or tomorrow. > > Andrew > > Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for > Windows 10 > > *From: *Davorin Rusevljan <mailto:davorin.rusevljan@gmail.com> > *Sent: *Monday, November 6, 2017 4:17 AM > *To: *Any question about pharo is welcome > <mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> > *Subject: *Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earning a > livingfromSmalltalk > > On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 7:59 PM, Andrew Glynn <aglynn42(a)gmail.com > <mailto:aglynn42@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Your history is accurate, but thereâs a few things IâdÂ like to add, > due to having been employed by IBM at exactly that period working > specifically on VisualAge, not only for Smalltalk, but for Java, C++ > and Cobol as well.Â (my NDAâs finally having expired also helps > ð).Â Itâs not a correction or contradiction, but a complement to > your description, providing a relevant but different perspective. > > Andrew, > > please find a way to write an article or blog post on this subject. It > is priceless. > > davorin >

Nov. 6, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earningalivingfromSmalltalk

by Andrew Glynn

OpenDoc was also very cool, but without branding, where would M$ be? Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Thierry Goubier Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 2:48 PM To: pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earningalivingfromSmalltalk Hi Andrew, Le 06/11/2017 Ã 19:59, Andrew Glynn a Ã©critÂ : > I /suspect/ that a (mostly repressed) underlying sense that a reliable, > inexpensive platform, if popular, would have been more detrimental to > IBM than to its smaller competitors. The same goes for the VisualAge > family -> Smalltalk (sold now by Instantiations at v. 9.0), Java, C++ > and COBOL.Â One of the (largely unthought) reasons for Smalltalkâs > difficulties in the 1990âs, when hardware could run it decently, was > that it took a fair number of resources/time to write a decent version, > while using it would have been a bigger advantage to smaller companies > than to the companies with the money to develop one. Â The result was > that only a few, very expensive versions were publicly available.Â VA > Smalltalk still retails at ~$8500 / seat. > > Those kinds of hazy (because not admitted to oneself) reasons for doing > things end up resulting in apparently contradictory actions such as > spending large amounts writing something, releasing it, then failing to > support it with any sales or marketing push, and even actively > undermining it.Â Nobody wants to fully admit that inefficiencies are > actually to their advantage, which is the reason itâs repressed > (implying both known /and/ not known, simultaneously). > > Iâm totally speculating of course and may be dead wrong, but it fits > with other IBM actions and non-actions.Â IBM is a strange company that > sees itself, partly for good reason, as a business that must make money > /and/ as an international resource that must continue to exist. Though > the latter depends to a degree on the former, they donât always imply > the same specific decisions. > > Interestingly, to prove the scalability of a VM based system IBM wrote > âRVMâ (originally meaning âRenaissance VMâ), and proved near linear > scaling to 1024 cores, but RVM is a VM for Squeak and earlier versions > of Pharo, not IBM Smalltalk (the source is available, on GitHub I believe). https://github.com/smarr/RoarVM I wouldn't say it is IBM, instead that it is David Ungar work (of Self and a few other things)... Has probably ties to the Jikes RVM as well. > Arca Noae (meaning âNew Boxâ), the company that released v.5.0 in June, > was set up because too many big customers canât migrate crucial apps > from OS/2 to anything else.Â The new version looks more modern, > borrowing icons and other things from Linux, mainly KDE.Â It can run a > fair number of Win32 apps, and supports virtually all modern hardware, > scaling to 128 threads and 16GB RAM, though itâs still 32 bit in most > senses. > > As you can imagine, given the base requirements are a Pentium Pro with > 64MB RAM, on an average laptop today it flies. I'm not nostalgic, but the object model and how it was handling versionning was cool. Anybody remember Taligent? Thierry > > Andrew > > Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for > Windows 10 > > *From: *Richard Sargent <mailto:rsargent@5x5.on.ca> > *Sent: *Monday, November 6, 2017 11:55 AM > *To: *'Any question about pharo is welcome' > <mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> > *Subject: *Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earning > alivingfromSmalltalk > > Andrew, > > I worked with OS/2 in the early 90s and really liked it; I adopted it > for my personal use as well. I really enjoyed reading the details you > provided earlier. > > I have a hypothesis that when IBM tried to sell OS/2 (Warp) via a retail > channel that it "hurt". A company whose DNA was channel sales would find > dealing with retail issues to be entirely different from everything they > knew. So, I speculate that there were enough people to felt (and argued) > that OS/2 wasn't "worth it". > > Any thoughts you would care to share on that supposition would be > appreciated. > > *From:*Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] *On > Behalf Of *Andrew Glynn > *Sent:* November 6, 2017 04:18 > *To:* Any question about pharo is welcome > *Subject:* Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earning a > livingfromSmalltalk > > Thank you.Â I will see if I can get to it today or tomorrow. > > Andrew > > Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for > Windows 10 > > *From: *Davorin Rusevljan <mailto:davorin.rusevljan@gmail.com> > *Sent: *Monday, November 6, 2017 4:17 AM > *To: *Any question about pharo is welcome > <mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> > *Subject: *Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earning a > livingfromSmalltalk > > On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 7:59 PM, Andrew Glynn <aglynn42(a)gmail.com > <mailto:aglynn42@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Your history is accurate, but thereâs a few things IâdÂ like to add, > due to having been employed by IBM at exactly that period working > specifically on VisualAge, not only for Smalltalk, but for Java, C++ > and Cobol as well.Â (my NDAâs finally having expired also helps > ð).Â Itâs not a correction or contradiction, but a complement to > your description, providing a relevant but different perspective. > > Andrew, > > please find a way to write an article or blog post on this subject. It > is priceless. > > davorin >

Nov. 6, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earning alivingfromSmalltalk

by Thierry Goubier

Hi Andrew, Le 06/11/2017 Ã 19:59, Andrew Glynn a Ã©critÂ : > I /suspect/ that a (mostly repressed) underlying sense that a reliable, > inexpensive platform, if popular, would have been more detrimental to > IBM than to its smaller competitors. The same goes for the VisualAge > family -> Smalltalk (sold now by Instantiations at v. 9.0), Java, C++ > and COBOL.Â One of the (largely unthought) reasons for Smalltalkâs > difficulties in the 1990âs, when hardware could run it decently, was > that it took a fair number of resources/time to write a decent version, > while using it would have been a bigger advantage to smaller companies > than to the companies with the money to develop one. Â The result was > that only a few, very expensive versions were publicly available.Â VA > Smalltalk still retails at ~$8500 / seat. > > Those kinds of hazy (because not admitted to oneself) reasons for doing > things end up resulting in apparently contradictory actions such as > spending large amounts writing something, releasing it, then failing to > support it with any sales or marketing push, and even actively > undermining it.Â Nobody wants to fully admit that inefficiencies are > actually to their advantage, which is the reason itâs repressed > (implying both known /and/ not known, simultaneously). > > Iâm totally speculating of course and may be dead wrong, but it fits > with other IBM actions and non-actions.Â IBM is a strange company that > sees itself, partly for good reason, as a business that must make money > /and/ as an international resource that must continue to exist. Though > the latter depends to a degree on the former, they donât always imply > the same specific decisions. > > Interestingly, to prove the scalability of a VM based system IBM wrote > âRVMâ (originally meaning âRenaissance VMâ), and proved near linear > scaling to 1024 cores, but RVM is a VM for Squeak and earlier versions > of Pharo, not IBM Smalltalk (the source is available, on GitHub I believe). https://github.com/smarr/RoarVM I wouldn't say it is IBM, instead that it is David Ungar work (of Self and a few other things)... Has probably ties to the Jikes RVM as well. > Arca Noae (meaning âNew Boxâ), the company that released v.5.0 in June, > was set up because too many big customers canât migrate crucial apps > from OS/2 to anything else.Â The new version looks more modern, > borrowing icons and other things from Linux, mainly KDE.Â It can run a > fair number of Win32 apps, and supports virtually all modern hardware, > scaling to 128 threads and 16GB RAM, though itâs still 32 bit in most > senses. > > As you can imagine, given the base requirements are a Pentium Pro with > 64MB RAM, on an average laptop today it flies. I'm not nostalgic, but the object model and how it was handling versionning was cool. Anybody remember Taligent? Thierry > > Andrew > > Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for > Windows 10 > > *From: *Richard Sargent <mailto:rsargent@5x5.on.ca> > *Sent: *Monday, November 6, 2017 11:55 AM > *To: *'Any question about pharo is welcome' > <mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> > *Subject: *Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earning > alivingfromSmalltalk > > Andrew, > > I worked with OS/2 in the early 90s and really liked it; I adopted it > for my personal use as well. I really enjoyed reading the details you > provided earlier. > > I have a hypothesis that when IBM tried to sell OS/2 (Warp) via a retail > channel that it "hurt". A company whose DNA was channel sales would find > dealing with retail issues to be entirely different from everything they > knew. So, I speculate that there were enough people to felt (and argued) > that OS/2 wasn't "worth it". > > Any thoughts you would care to share on that supposition would be > appreciated. > > *From:*Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] *On > Behalf Of *Andrew Glynn > *Sent:* November 6, 2017 04:18 > *To:* Any question about pharo is welcome > *Subject:* Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earning a > livingfromSmalltalk > > Thank you.Â I will see if I can get to it today or tomorrow. > > Andrew > > Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for > Windows 10 > > *From: *Davorin Rusevljan <mailto:davorin.rusevljan@gmail.com> > *Sent: *Monday, November 6, 2017 4:17 AM > *To: *Any question about pharo is welcome > <mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> > *Subject: *Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earning a > livingfromSmalltalk > > On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 7:59 PM, Andrew Glynn <aglynn42(a)gmail.com > <mailto:aglynn42@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Your history is accurate, but thereâs a few things IâdÂ like to add, > due to having been employed by IBM at exactly that period working > specifically on VisualAge, not only for Smalltalk, but for Java, C++ > and Cobol as well.Â (my NDAâs finally having expired also helps > ð).Â Itâs not a correction or contradiction, but a complement to > your description, providing a relevant but different perspective. > > Andrew, > > please find a way to write an article or blog post on this subject. It > is priceless. > > davorin >

Nov. 6, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earning alivingfromSmalltalk

by Andrew Glynn

I suspect that a (mostly repressed) underlying sense that a reliable, inexpensive platform, if popular, would have been more detrimental to IBM than to its smaller competitors. The same goes for the VisualAge family -> Smalltalk (sold now by Instantiations at v. 9.0), Java, C++ and COBOL. One of the (largely unthought) reasons for Smalltalkâs difficulties in the 1990âs, when hardware could run it decently, was that it took a fair number of resources/time to write a decent version, while using it would have been a bigger advantage to smaller companies than to the companies with the money to develop one. The result was that only a few, very expensive versions were publicly available. VA Smalltalk still retails at ~$8500 / seat. Those kinds of hazy (because not admitted to oneself) reasons for doing things end up resulting in apparently contradictory actions such as spending large amounts writing something, releasing it, then failing to support it with any sales or marketing push, and even actively undermining it. Nobody wants to fully admit that inefficiencies are actually to their advantage, which is the reason itâs repressed (implying both known and not known, simultaneously). Iâm totally speculating of course and may be dead wrong, but it fits with other IBM actions and non-actions. IBM is a strange company that sees itself, partly for good reason, as a business that must make money and as an international resource that must continue to exist. Though the latter depends to a degree on the former, they donât always imply the same specific decisions. Interestingly, to prove the scalability of a VM based system IBM wrote âRVMâ (originally meaning âRenaissance VMâ), and proved near linear scaling to 1024 cores, but RVM is a VM for Squeak and earlier versions of Pharo, not IBM Smalltalk (the source is available, on GitHub I believe). Arca Noae (meaning âNew Boxâ), the company that released v.5.0 in June, was set up because too many big customers canât migrate crucial apps from OS/2 to anything else. The new version looks more modern, borrowing icons and other things from Linux, mainly KDE. It can run a fair number of Win32 apps, and supports virtually all modern hardware, scaling to 128 threads and 16GB RAM, though itâs still 32 bit in most senses. As you can imagine, given the base requirements are a Pentium Pro with 64MB RAM, on an average laptop today it flies. Andrew Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Richard Sargent Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 11:55 AM To: 'Any question about pharo is welcome' Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earning alivingfromSmalltalk Andrew, Â I worked with OS/2 in the early 90s and really liked it; I adopted it for my personal use as well. I really enjoyed reading the details you provided earlier. Â I have a hypothesis that when IBM tried to sell OS/2 (Warp) via a retail channel that it "hurt". A company whose DNA was channel sales would find dealing with retail issues to be entirely different from everything they knew. So, I speculate that there were enough people to felt (and argued) that OS/2 wasn't "worth it". Â Â Any thoughts you would care to share on that supposition would be appreciated. Â From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Glynn Sent: November 6, 2017 04:18 To: Any question about pharo is welcome Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earning a livingfromSmalltalk Thank you.Â I will see if I can get to it today or tomorrow. Andrew Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Davorin Rusevljan Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 4:17 AM To: Any question about pharo is welcome Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earning a livingfromSmalltalk On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 7:59 PM, Andrew Glynn <aglynn42(a)gmail.com> wrote: Your history is accurate, but thereâs a few things IâdÂ like to add, due to having been employed by IBM at exactly that period working specifically on VisualAge, not only for Smalltalk, but for Java, C++ and Cobol as well.Â (my NDAâs finally having expired also helps ð).Â Itâs not a correction or contradiction, but a complement to your description, providing a relevant but different perspective. Andrew, please find a way to write an article or blog post on this subject. It is priceless. davorin

Nov. 6, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earning a livingfromSmalltalk

by Richard Sargent

Andrew, I worked with OS/2 in the early 90s and really liked it; I adopted it for my personal use as well. I really enjoyed reading the details you provided earlier. I have a hypothesis that when IBM tried to sell OS/2 (Warp) via a retail channel that it "hurt". A company whose DNA was channel sales would find dealing with retail issues to be entirely different from everything they knew. So, I speculate that there were enough people to felt (and argued) that OS/2 wasn't "worth it". Any thoughts you would care to share on that supposition would be appreciated. _____ From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Glynn Sent: November 6, 2017 04:18 To: Any question about pharo is welcome Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earning a livingfromSmalltalk Thank you. I will see if I can get to it today or tomorrow. Andrew Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 From: Davorin <mailto:davorin.rusevljan@gmail.com> Rusevljan Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 4:17 AM To: Any question about pharo is <mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> welcome Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earning a livingfromSmalltalk On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 7:59 PM, Andrew Glynn <aglynn42(a)gmail.com> wrote: Your history is accurate, but thereâs a few things Iâd like to add, due to having been employed by IBM at exactly that period working specifically on VisualAge, not only for Smalltalk, but for Java, C++ and Cobol as well. (my NDAâs finally having expired also helps ð). Itâs not a correction or contradiction, but a complement to your description, providing a relevant but different perspective. Andrew, please find a way to write an article or blog post on this subject. It is priceless. davorin

Nov. 6, 2017

LGit_GIT_ERROR: Invalid version 0 on git_remote_callbacks on latest 64bit 6.1 image?

by Tim Mackinnon

Hi - does Iceberg work on a 64bit image yet? Iâve not tried in a while, and was surprised when I went to get a new image via the command line that I am getting the error: LGit_GIT_ERROR: Invalid version 0 on git_remote_callbacks I can see a post by Alistair in Jun asking about this, and it seems 64bit hadnât been updated to work back then - but is this still true in Nov? We seem very much in turmoil at the moment - and its unclear what should work and not work. Is there a stable platform? If 64 bit is only working for 7.x - should we remove it from 6.x so that people donât inadvertently try to use it? Tim

Nov. 6, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earning a livingfromSmalltalk

by Andrew Glynn

Thank you. I will see if I can get to it today or tomorrow. Andrew Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Davorin Rusevljan Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 4:17 AM To: Any question about pharo is welcome Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earning a livingfromSmalltalk On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 7:59 PM, Andrew Glynn <aglynn42(a)gmail.com> wrote: Your history is accurate, but thereâs a few things IâdÂ like to add, due to having been employed by IBM at exactly that period working specifically on VisualAge, not only for Smalltalk, but for Java, C++ and Cobol as well.Â (my NDAâs finally having expired also helps ð).Â Itâs not a correction or contradiction, but a complement to your description, providing a relevant but different perspective. Andrew, please find a way to write an article or blog post on this subject. It is priceless. davorin

Nov. 6, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earning alivingfromSmalltalk

by Andrew Glynn

I know, I still use it, along with VA Java and VA C++ (the COBOL I can live without, tbh). I use them largely for prototyping, and when I need to do weird things like creating micro VMâs with cross VM client/server software in order to create enough traffic to test things like monitoring virtualized Cisco routers. Theyâre also damnably fast on a modern machine, lol. I have one laptop with OS/2 v. 5, an i5 with 16GB RAM. It just flies. VA Java with Java 1.4.2 makes it easier to create reliable Java than any other Java IDE Iâve used. Much of the syntactic parmesan thatâs been added to Java since only hurts reliability (by hiding what youâre actually doing) and makes stack traces useless. 1.4.2 was stable compared with earlier versions, but didnât have the issues that started coming in with Java 5 based on the need to âkeep upâ with features in other languages. Btw, try writing a CORBA app without VA Java and VA C++ â¦ Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Marten Feldtmann Sent: Monday, November 6, 2017 3:52 AM To: Any question about pharo is welcome Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] perspective request for those earning alivingfromSmalltalk Am 06.11.2017 um 09:36 schrieb Andrew Glynn: > They did just release 5.0 in June, lol. > VisualAge Smalltalk 6.01 for OS/2 is still running without any problems ... Marten -- Marten Feldtmann

Nov. 6, 2017