November 2017 - Pharo-users

Open Debugger, Save and Quit

by Sean P. DeNigris

In a headless image, I'd like to do the following: if there's any error, arrange to have a debugger open on the next (headful) launch, and then save and quit. I'm drawing a blank - how would I do that? I explored various dead ends, the culmination of which was the image-breaking: actualWorkBlock on: Error do: [ [ Smalltalk snapshot: true andQuit: true ] fork. Halt now ] Thanks! ----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Nov. 8, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Writing "powerpoint" like presentations in Pharo?

by Sean P. DeNigris

Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas-2 wrote > The idea of slides seems > pretty anachronistic/boring for making presentations. Amen, brother! Alan Kay would be proud :) ----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Nov. 8, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] LGit_GIT_ERROR: Invalid version 0 on git_remote_callbacks on latest 64bit 6.1 image?

by Tim Mackinnon

Thanks for confirming this Esteban - perhaps I am doing something wrong - I tried using the steps I was using successfully several months ago namely: curl get.pharo.org/64/ | bash ./pharo-ui Pharo.image Which got me the latest image - which sys info says is (not sure why it still says 6.0 tho?): Pharo 6.0 Latest update: #60520 I then open Iceberg, and click on Clone Repository In the dialog I enter: git@gitlab.com:macta/PharoLambda.git And put src in the code subdirectory field, and then click on Create. I get the LGit_GIT_ERROR ??? Hmm, out of curiosity, I just tried leaving the src field empty and it then seemed to put an entry into Iceberg but then a Fetch gave me the same error? Tim > On 7 Nov 2017, at 11:46, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > iceberg should work on 64bits, both on Pharo7 and Pharo6. > Iâve been using it exclusively on 64bits since some months now and I know Iâm not the only oneâ¦ can you send a way to reproduce your problem so I can take a look? > > Esteban > > >> On 6 Nov 2017, at 12:11, Tim Mackinnon <tim(a)testit.works <mailto:tim@testit.works>> wrote: >> >> Hi - does Iceberg work on a 64bit image yet? Iâve not tried in a while, and was surprised when I went to get a new image via the command line that I am getting the error: LGit_GIT_ERROR: Invalid version 0 on git_remote_callbacks >> >> I can see a post by Alistair in Jun asking about this, and it seems 64bit hadnât been updated to work back then - but is this still true in Nov? >> >> We seem very much in turmoil at the moment - and its unclear what should work and not work. Is there a stable platform? If 64 bit is only working for 7.x - should we remove it from 6.x so that people donât inadvertently try to use it? >> >> Tim >

Nov. 7, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Binary Decision Diagram Package in Smalltalk

by Thierry Goubier

Le 07/11/2017 Ã 23:00, Steffen MÃ¤rcker a Ã©critÂ : > I am not familiar with the literature on scanners. May I ask you about > some details on the "for all characters" algorithms you are referring to? The two main ones available, from the typical Aho/Ullman textbook, are: - NFA to DFA conversion (i.e. build a NFA with your regular expressions, then convert it to a DFA) - Direct regular expression to DFA construction Both of them have loop of the type: for (each input symbol a) { ... > Building a (or connecting to) a BDD library would be fun, indeed. But > within that time frame it seems not realistic. Anyway, after finishing > my thesis, I'd like to come back to that idea. It would certainly be interesting. Please contact us again when you'll have time :) Regards, Thierry > Ciao, Steffen > > > Am 7. November 2017 16:33:03 MEZ schrieb Andrew Glynn <aglynn42(a)gmail.com>: > > A possible way to accomplish it would be to use an object graph with > an incremental query engine, such as EMF/CDO with Viatra or > something similar.Â You could then put different character sets in > connected objects and query only as far as you need to. > > Andrew Glynn > > Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for > Windows 10 > > *From: *Thierry Goubier <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com> > *Sent: *Tuesday, November 7, 2017 7:17 AM > *To: *Any question about pharo is welcome > <mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> > *Subject: *Re: [Pharo-users] Binary Decision Diagram Package in > Smalltalk > > Hi Andrew, Steffen, > > 2017-11-07 13:10 GMT+01:00 Prof. Andrew P. Black <black(a)cs.pdx.edu > <mailto:black@cs.pdx.edu>>: > > > > On 28 Oct 2017, at 17:37 , Steffen MÃ¤rcker <merkste(a)web.de > <mailto:merkste@web.de>> wrote: > > > > Does that mean the sets/bdd would be constructed mainly at > comile time? Anyway, Andrew, feel free to contact me, I might > help you with this. > > > > Thanks for the offer, Steffen!Â The problem is that I need to > use SmaCC for my current project, and really do not have a month > to take off and re-design the way that it builds its scanner. > Iâve talked to Thierry Goubier about, and he doesnât have time > either!Â It would be a fun project, though, and it ought to be > fairly separate from other parts of SmaCC.Â Iâve spent a fair > bit of time thinking about how to do it, but donât think that I > will be able to actually focus on it. > > Yes, this is the essence of the issue. There are a few alternatives > about it, but none we have the time to pursue. > > > An alternative approach, which Thierry has suggested, is to make > SmaCC work on the UTF-8 representation of the Unicode.Â Then we > could represent character sets as prefix trees.Â But the core > problem would still exist: you canât run an algorithm that > repeatedly executes > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â for all characters in the alphabet do: > > when there are 2^21 characters in the alphabet! > > The main issue is that `for all characters`... All the literature on > scanner building uses 'for all characters do'. > > Thierry > > > Â Â Â Â Andrew > > >

Nov. 7, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Binary Decision Diagram Package in Smalltalk

by Steffen MÃ¤rcker

I am not familiar with the literature on scanners. May I ask you about some details on the "for all characters" algorithms you are referring to? Building a (or connecting to) a BDD library would be fun, indeed. But within that time frame it seems not realistic. Anyway, after finishing my thesis, I'd like to come back to that idea. Ciao, Steffen Am 7. November 2017 16:33:03 MEZ schrieb Andrew Glynn <aglynn42(a)gmail.com>: >A possible way to accomplish it would be to use an object graph with an >incremental query engine, such as EMF/CDO with Viatra or something >similar. You could then put different character sets in connected >objects and query only as far as you need to. > >Andrew Glynn > >Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > >From: Thierry Goubier >Sent: Tuesday, November 7, 2017 7:17 AM >To: Any question about pharo is welcome >Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Binary Decision Diagram Package in Smalltalk > >Hi Andrew, Steffen, > >2017-11-07 13:10 GMT+01:00 Prof. Andrew P. Black <black(a)cs.pdx.edu>: > >> On 28 Oct 2017, at 17:37 , Steffen MÃ¤rcker <merkste(a)web.de> wrote: >> >> Does that mean the sets/bdd would be constructed mainly at comile >time? Anyway, Andrew, feel free to contact me, I might help you with >this. >> > >Thanks for the offer, Steffen!Â The problem is that I need to use SmaCC >for my current project, and really do not have a month to take off and >re-design the way that it builds its scanner.Â Iâve talked to Thierry >Goubier about, and he doesnât have time either!Â It would be a fun >project, though, and it ought to be fairly separate from other parts of >SmaCC.Â Iâve spent a fair bit of time thinking about how to do it, but >donât think that I will be able to actually focus on it. > >Yes, this is the essence of the issue. There are a few alternatives >about it, but none we have the time to pursue. >Â > >An alternative approach, which Thierry has suggested, is to make SmaCC >work on the UTF-8 representation of the Unicode.Â Then we could >represent character sets as prefix trees.Â But the core problem would >still exist: you canât run an algorithm that repeatedly executes > >Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â for all characters in the alphabet do: > >when there are 2^21 characters in the alphabet! > >The main issue is that `for all characters`... All the literature on >scanner building uses 'for all characters do'. > >Thierry >Â > >Â Â Â Â Andrew

Nov. 7, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Writing "powerpoint" like presentations in Pharo?

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

For my workshops I use Grafoscopio (of course ;-P). Having a document like structure that can contain interactive playgrounds in a tree to give them context is pretty useful in such educational/explanatory contexts. Once I have time again (i.e. after finishing to write my PhD thesis) I hope to make some test on extending that via a mind map alike UI that can be used also for presentations. The idea of slides seems pretty anachronistic/boring for making presentations. Cheers, Offray On 07/11/17 15:01, stephan wrote: > On 07-11-17 19:38, alanone1 via Pharo-users wrote: >> (So what is the big problem with doing something better than PPT in >> Pharo?) > > Lots of tiny things, resulting in presentations not looking very good. > I have done a lot of workshops with glamour based browsers, > integrating (visualization) exercises in the glamour browser just > mapping them to methods. It works well and is easy to do. And the font > metrics were not correct, not supporting ligatures and kerning. There > was a lack of support for adding media in an easy-to-distribute > format, no support for multiple monitors, no HiDPI display support, > bad support for rotating text and scaling without artifacts. And in > Pharo the continuous change resulting in each workshop needing fixing > each time I gave it, and the lack of widespread morphic knowledge and > slow and slightly uncoordinated removal of features that were seen as > unmaintainable and or not used. > > So I'm very happy that finally a lot of the things I've been waiting > for are now coming together and I can switch to the easier problem :) > > > And, in fact, it is also quite demoralizing to have to use this !@#$% > > non-WYSIWYG horrible web editor to make this comment .... > > I use thunderbird and news.gmane.org to avoid that. > > Stephan > > >

Nov. 7, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Writing "powerpoint" like presentations in Pharo?

by stephan

On 07-11-17 19:38, alanone1 via Pharo-users wrote: > (So what is the big problem with doing something better than PPT in > Pharo?) Lots of tiny things, resulting in presentations not looking very good. I have done a lot of workshops with glamour based browsers, integrating (visualization) exercises in the glamour browser just mapping them to methods. It works well and is easy to do. And the font metrics were not correct, not supporting ligatures and kerning. There was a lack of support for adding media in an easy-to-distribute format, no support for multiple monitors, no HiDPI display support, bad support for rotating text and scaling without artifacts. And in Pharo the continuous change resulting in each workshop needing fixing each time I gave it, and the lack of widespread morphic knowledge and slow and slightly uncoordinated removal of features that were seen as unmaintainable and or not used. So I'm very happy that finally a lot of the things I've been waiting for are now coming together and I can switch to the easier problem :) > And, in fact, it is also quite demoralizing to have to use this !@#$% > non-WYSIWYG horrible web editor to make this comment .... I use thunderbird and news.gmane.org to avoid that. Stephan

Nov. 7, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

by Peter Fisk

https://youtu.be/S4E4tW0deIg Hello Joachim, This is my first post since 2017-10-20, so that may explain some of the missing replies ;). âSmalltalk Express is syntax compatible with Pharo although much of the class structure is very different because of the foundation technologies. I will add a blog post soon to explain the differences. Above is an image and a short video showing a test of the desktop version with some animations. In the next few days, I hope to have another demo ready of Smalltalk running inside a Facebook page. Once that is working, I can use the Google server to connect client game apps using sockets. We all know that Smalltalk is a great language. If we can make it available where people spend their time (Facebook, Google), I am sure that it will become popular again. Maybe we can even connect Smalltalk applications through Twitter :) Here is my latest blog post. https://smalltalkexpress.quora.com/Graphic-Animation-for-Games-and-Education -- Peter On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 2:11 AM, jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de < jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de> wrote: > Peter, > > our mail provider decided to move all of the pharo mailing list messages > to the spam folder, so I haven't seen many messages in the last days. I was > already starting to wonder why nobody ever answered my posts ;-) > > Your smalltalk express idea sounds interesting. I look forward to trying > it. > > > Joachim > > > Am 20.10.17 um 16:21 schrieb Peter Fisk: > > Thank you Joachim! > > That is the most honest assessment of the situation of Smalltalk in 2017 > that I have ever seen. > > And I agree with you 100%. > > We need a new Smalltalk which is both "cool" and can seamlessly integrate > with all of the latest web technologies. > > I will be releasing a new Smalltalk framework very shortly called > "Smalltalk Express". > > The interpreter is written in the "Go" language and can run on all of the > major web platforms such as Google, Heroku, etc. > > I use Pharo to manage the Smalltalk code. > > Here is a new blog that I have started to discuss the project. > > https://smalltalkexpress.quora.com/ > > Also, I have reserved the web address "smalltalk.express" for use once the > code goes live. > > There is a video in the blog post so you can get an idea of where things > stand right now. > > -- Peter > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 3:23 AM, jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de < > jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de> wrote: > >> First of all: I'd say the question itself is not a question but an >> excuse. I am not arguing there are enough Smalltalkers or cheap ones. But I >> think the question is just a way of saying "we don't want to do it for >> reasons that we ourselves cannot really express". If you are a good >> developer, learning Smalltalk is easy. If you are a good developer you've >> heard the sentence "we've taken the goos parts from x,y,z and Smalltalk" at >> least twice a year. So you most likely would like to learn it anyways. >> >> A shortage of developers doesn't exist. What exists is an unwillingness >> of companies to get people trained in a technology. If Smalltalk was cool >> and great in their opinion, they wouldn't care. It's that simple. As a >> consultant, I've heard that argument so often. Not ferom Startups, but from >> insurance companies, Banks or Car manufacturers who spend millions on >> useless, endless meetings and stuff instead of just hiring somebody to >> teach a couple of developers Smalltalk. It's just a lie: the shortage of >> Smalltalk developers is not a problem. >> >> And, to be honest: what is it we actually are better in by using >> Smalltalk? >> Can we build cool looking web apps in extremely short time? No. >> Can we build mobile Apps with little effort? No. >> Does our Smalltalk ship lots of great libraries for all kinds of things >> that are not availabel in similar quality in any other language? >> Are we lying when we say we are so extremely over-productive as compared >> to other languages? >> >> I know, all that live debugging stuff and such is great and it is much >> faster to find & fix a bug in Smalltalk than in any other environment I've >> used so far. But that is really only true for business code. When I need to >> connect to things or want to build a modern GUI or a web application with a >> great look&feel, I am nowhere near productive, because I simply have to >> build my own stuff or learn how to use other external resources. If I want >> to build something for a mobile device, I will only hear that somebody >> somewhere has done it before. No docs, no proof, no ready-made tool for me. >> >> >> Shortage of developers is not really the problem. If Smalltalk was as >> cool as we like to make ourselves believe, this problem would be >> non-existent. If somebody took out their iPad and told an audience: "We did >> this in Smalltalk in 40% of the time it would have taken in Swift", and if >> that something was a must-have for people, things would be much easier. But >> nobody has. >> >> >> I am absolutely over-exaggerating, because I make my living with an SaaS >> product written in Smalltalk (not Pharo). I have lots of fun with Smalltalk >> and - as you - am convince that many parts of what we've done so far >> would've taken much longer or even be impossible in other languages. But >> the advantage was eaten by our extremely steep learning curve for web >> technologies and for building something that works almost as well as tools >> like Angular or jQuery Mobile. >> >> Smalltalk is cool, and the day somebody shows me something like Google's >> flutter in Smalltalk, I am ready to bet a lot on a bright future for >> Smalltalk. But until then, I'd say these arguments about productivity are >> just us trying to make ourselves believe we're still the top of the food >> chain. We've done that for almost thirty years now and still aren't ready >> to stop it. But we've been lying to ourselves and still do so. >> >> I don't think there is a point in discussing about the usefulness of a >> language using an argument like the number or ready-made developers. That >> is just an argument they know you can't win. The real question is and >> should be: what is the benefit of using Smalltalk. Our productivity >> argument is a lie as soon as we have to build something that uses or runs >> on technology that has been invented after 1990. >> >> >> Okay, shoot ;-) >> >> Joachim >> >> >> -- >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel mailto:jtuchel@objektfabrik.de >> Fliederweg 1 http://www.objektfabrik.de >> D-71640 Ludwigsburg http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com >> Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0 Fax: +49 7141 56 10 86 1 >> >> >> > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel mailto:jtuchel@objektfabrik.de <jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de> > Fliederweg 1 http://www.objektfabrik.de > D-71640 Ludwigsburg http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com > Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0 Fax: +49 7141 56 10 86 1 > > >

Nov. 7, 2017

Re: Writing "powerpoint" like presentations in Pharo?

by alanone1

This is a very demoralizing thread ... For example, take a look at Smalltalk-78, brought back to life a few years ago by Dan Ingalls, Bert Freudenberg, Ted Kaehler, myself, et al from a disk pack thrown on the trash by Xerox. https://youtu.be/AnrlSqtpOkw?t=135 Part of the motivation, besides the fun of it, was to make a tribute video for Ted Nelson's "Intertwingled" in 2015. I did all the visuals -- which included "slides", dynamics, live coding, etc. -- in Smalltalk-78. I used the Dorado screen format This was also historically interesting because it was Smalltalk-78 that Steve Jobs saw in his famous visit to Parc the next year in 1979. (So what is the big problem with doing something better than PPT in Pharo?) And, in fact, it is also quite demoralizing to have to use this !@#$% non-WYSIWYG horrible web editor to make this comment .... Cheers Alan -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Nov. 7, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Writing "powerpoint" like presentations in Pharo?

by Sean P. DeNigris

Hannes Hirzel wrote > Create a sequence of desktops and switch between them with That's an interesting idea and holds most true to the Dynabook/Smalltalk principle of keeping the full power of the computer at every level. Hannes Hirzel wrote > One option is to use Pillar. MOOC slides have been done with Pillar That would be more pink plane with the advantage of being more searchable/reproducible and the disadvantage of being restricted to standard (mostly?)-static content. Hannes Hirzel wrote > A third option would be to continue working on reimplementing a > bookmorph / slide show / presentation or something similar as in > Squeak and/or Etoys [2] That would be ideal, but would require some work. This combined with the suggestion from this thread to have both a presenter image and presentation image seems to cover the OP request. As a workaround for now, it seems #1 gets you much of the way there. ----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Nov. 7, 2017