November 2017 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] I18n in pharo

by Stephane Ducasse

Excellent Pavel. This is great. So I do not get it. What is then not working? Stef On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 12:13 AM, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.krivanek(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > 2017-11-10 11:52 GMT+01:00 Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu>: >> >> A cleaner Pharo will help there. >> >> To be frank, I found later Pharo releases not inspiring. Bigger, bigger >> and bigger with added code, protocol changes, and bugs at will. It is >> becoming too complicated for a hobby use of it. >> >> I decided I will not finish porting DrGeo to P6 or P7, and it will likely >> die with P3. > > > To run DrGeo on Pharo 7 is not hard (see the screenshot) - of course it has > some issues but they can be definitely solved. It would be pity to throw it > away - at least you can benefit from 64-bit and faster VM. > > -- Pavel > >> >> Pharo should have been clean up to the bones before adding. It was the >> initial moto, no? >> >> >> Le 10/11/2017 Ã 11:14, Marcus Denker a Ã©crit : >>> >>> It would be nice if someone who uses it would take the lead >>> so we can improve the default that is shipped with Pharo. >> >> >> -- >> Dr. Geo >> http://drgeo.eu >> >> >> >

Nov. 12, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] I18n in pharo

by Hilaire

I guess you used the latest source code version, which was reto-porting to P3. The prior one should get you a correct layout. Le 12/11/2017 Ã 00:13, Pavel Krivanek a Ã©critÂ : > To run DrGeo on Pharo 7 is not hard (see the screenshot) - of course > it has some issues but they can be definitely solved. It would be pity > to throw it away - at least you can benefit from 64-bit and faster VM. -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

Nov. 12, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] I18n in pharo

by Hilaire

Likely your extracted list from the items I mentionned is contiguous :) Looks like a big sandwich, though. Will Athne be throwm away? With Polymorph and Morph? Le 11/11/2017 Ã 21:56, Aliaksei Syrel a Ã©critÂ : > Could you, please, explain in a bit more detail why do you think that > Sparta, Bloc, Brick and GT are overlapping layers? > > In attachment you can find a layered architecture diagram that > explains how those technologies are stacked _from our_ point of view :) > Inline images 1 -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

Nov. 12, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Anybody in this group in Bangalore or India

by Stephane Ducasse

Hi sanjay tell us more about this interesting project. BTW I would love to have a success story from india and I know that some people developed nice frameworks there but I forgot the contact. Stef On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 11:12 AM, Sanjay Minni <sm(a)planage.com> wrote: > Hi, > > Is there anybody in this group located in Bangalore, > > You could connect with me at sanjay.minni_at_gmail.com if you would like to > join in an interesting project > > regards > Sanjay > > > > ----- > --- > Regards, Sanjay > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >

Nov. 12, 2017

Anybody in this group in Bangalore or India

by Sanjay Minni

Hi, Is there anybody in this group located in Bangalore, You could connect with me at sanjay.minni_at_gmail.com if you would like to join in an interesting project regards Sanjay ----- --- Regards, Sanjay -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Nov. 12, 2017

Network data exchange - Basys and Seamless usage questioning

by CÃ©drick BÃ©ler

Hi all and Denis, Iâve played a bit with Basys and Seamless. Basys is the low level P2P connection framework used by Seamless. First, thanks for such works. Heavily documented and tested. Thatâs super cool. My objective is to have several images running (one representing one app belonging to one or more singular entity realm). Lets say image A1, A2, A3 belongs to Alice. And image B1, B2, â¦ to Bob. They exchange messages conveying information. So the aim of the network layer is for me to keep messages synchronized betweens A(s) and B(s). I have inbox and outbox for that. This is actually quite close to the basys abstractions on LocalPeer and RemotePeer (active and passive). So I played a bit with basys and can declare a network between A1 and B1 for instance. I wonder if I need as much network as possible connection (A1B1 A1B2 â¦ but also A1A2, A1A3, A2A3, â¦). Not sure how to declare network with more than 2 nodesâ¦ I can send string message, and eventually binary. I think I may implemented proper message send. Then, there is seamless that is based on basys and that is far more complete. Several transport and message send possibilities, distributed object with proxy remote delegation, etc. I could use seamless but I find it goes too far for my purpose (it can actually execute code in the remote image - I donât want that, at least by default). At first I don't want to execute code on the peer, only send message to it and received message form it (some of this message could be code invocation but actually more in a business process manner, meaning I activate an activity, but code run locally). This being said, do you think 1) itâs better to use Basys and subclass BasysNetwork (I used BasisNetworkStub) ? I just send message serialization ? 2) or may I use Seamless straight with restrictions (I wonder if limiting the classes that can be executed would suffice - proxies should only be on the peer inbox and outbox I think) ? 3) or maybe I should do a lighter version of seamless ? If so where should I look at/change ? TIA, CÃ©drick

Nov. 12, 2017

Pharo Desktop apps (and deployment) (was: Re: I18n in pharo)

by CÃ©drick BÃ©ler

Just change the subject as this is not (only) on I18n. As a summary and from my impression (I just dive into pharo more seriously these days). > Le 11 nov. 2017 Ã 21:29, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> a Ã©crit : > > P6 is definitely a better IDE compare to previous version, and for coming Calypso looks fantastic, but P6 is a worst vehicle for a desktop application. There is much more code included and you are on your on to shrink/clean it to deploy your desktop application to make it looks and behave user friendly. May be for a specialized audience it could be just fine to deploy as is. So itâs more a problem of deployment here. To me P6 is the last Â« fat image Â» artefact. P7 will definitely be better here (even if of course one must learn to create image differently - and of course the process might be quite fragile at first and error prone). Still my impression but P7 looks more appropriate for doing desktop app versus P6. > > About my perception on Pharo, from a distant POV, I see parallel/overlapping/contiguous layers like Morphic, Athens, Sparta, Bloc, Brick, Spec, GT, Polymorph all this looks confusing for me and I really don't know or understand where to put my eggs. It is to me too (hence something else to learn). But again personally, this is the first time I think of doing desktop applications in Pharo/ST (before, it was a no go => web apps only). Still, I wait another iteration to dive into (I just read brick and block doc). > > When I took a look at Pharo keyboard shortcut, it seems to be -- without been sure 100% -- there are two different implementations. One from GT and another one, probably a legacy one. How can it happen? Then you wonder about other part of the system. It makes fells like changes/implementations are not coherent, and you don't really fell the environment as coherent or trustful. Probable as the new rendering stack must be used and improved. I canât make some shortcuts (native) working like CMD+SHIFT+W for instance... > > May be the twist is ontological, Pharo (and Squeak) taking too much responsibilities and not delegating enough to the host environment: GUI, Freetype, Canvas. The energy required is then out of reach or the needed coherence in teams works too complex. Don't know, just blind guesses, I will now shut up. I donât think you have to shut up :) Dr Geo is a quite complex software the used a lot morphic I think, so it is also a perfect candidate to see how switching to Bloc/Brick is possible/interesting :) I just have the impression that P7 would be more appropriate than P6 for upgrading it. Again, only my 2 cents, CÃ©drick > > > Le 10/11/2017 Ã 12:23, CÃ©drick BÃ©ler a Ã©crit : >> But I have the opposite impression (of course I donât have to maintain a big project like yours - I wouldnât say youâre the hobby user:) ). But I really find P6 more consistent than what I used to try in the past (last squeaks up to 3.9 and firsts pharo). > > -- > Dr. Geo > http://drgeo.eu > > >

Nov. 12, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo-users Digest, Vol 55, Issue 94

by jtuchel＠objektfabrik.de

Am 11.11.17 um 22:29 schrieb ÐÐ¸ÐºÐµÐ½ÑÐ¸Ð¹ ÐÐ¾ÑÐ°Ð¿Ð¾Ð²: Vikenti, > And also i mean some simple and understandable deployment tool (as in Cincom VW exists) but not manual-written bash scripts. This tool asks me what class\accessor send open message, asks what to strip and how to pack my image. Few simple steps and i have perfectly cleaned minimal image with all image started methods tuned to load necessary class. It's really cool stuff. It's a pity, my low-level SmallTalk knowledge (VW + Pharo) is not enough to port this tool or create the new one. just out of curiosity and following my first reflex: if VisualWorks offers most of what you need and is essentially what you want - why do you want to switch to Pharo? This is not intended to be offensive or provoking. I just wonder if an open source project is the right thing for you. Pharo is emerging and has quite some pace doing so. This is both good and bad - at many levels. Commercial offerings may be a lot slower and thus less of a "moving target" (not sure I am citing you, but I know I read this in one of the threads about the current state of Pharo just these days), but they are pretty much focussed on issues like deployment and stable APIs. Joachim

Nov. 12, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo-users Digest, Vol 55, Issue 94

by jtuchel＠objektfabrik.de

Am 11.11.17 um 22:29 schrieb ÐÐ¸ÐºÐµÐ½ÑÐ¸Ð¹ ÐÐ¾ÑÐ°Ð¿Ð¾Ð²: > I want to get these esug videos, but i've searched through the whole pharo site and i haven't found them ... :( ESUG and Pharo are still two separate entities, both legally and from the perspective of their goals. The ESUG conference was run by ESUG, not Pharo. Therefor you find the conference videos on the ESUG webiste. They are linked from this page: http://www.esug.org/wiki/pier/Conferences/2017/ .. or, as mentioned before, you can visit the youtube playlist directly. Joachim

Nov. 12, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] About implementing a "Mini Pillar" in-image renderer for Pharo ...

by Sean P. DeNigris

Tudor Girba-2 wrote > That would be another renderer, but it is not difficult to build. That is > something weâll do soon. It would be nice to be able to toggle codes on/off like WS Word ----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Nov. 12, 2017