November 2017 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] New Pharo article at The Cohort

by Pavel Krivanek

Yes, people are emotional entities and good marketing should work with that, but it needs to be done carefully. I'll give you three examples: 1) Imagine you are an Apple user who bought a very expensive iPhone X one week ago, you spent next hundreds of dollars on applications you bought over last decade and someone will want to try to tell you that you should switch to a new different super-cool mobile platform. He will start with assertions that Apple users are sheeps that use overpriced crap, then he will argue that his mobile platform is great because it is actually very old (maybe older than you), it was used a lot in times when this industry was in nappies and big companies of that time that you always considered to be dinosaurs used them. Then he will provide some vague numbers that should prove that users of his platform are more productive (without any real example of why it is like that), that the users of this platform like it and in the end he will tell you that someone used that phones to call ambulance and saved some lives. People are emotional and they like to feel smart. Would you have positive feeling about this new platform? Ask yourself what would convince you in shoes of such Apple user. Probably the first think you want to hear is that your current applications will work on the new platform. That you will not need to learn much, that it has all the features of the Apple software and that it solves this and this particular issue you have. And that you will save money. If you are the person who wants to sell the new phone and you know that you cannot tell that because it is not truth, than you need to be really nice and positive to make the people at least consider trying your phone when they will change it. 2) Imagine that you are a car driver that uses it for daily commuting and some will come and tell you that you should use a bicycle instead of it. That bicycles that people stopped to use in half of the last century and switched to cars. You think about them that they are obsolete, something that only children and poor or strange people use, it is dangerous to drive them in the traffic, you need to breath the polluted air, hear all the traffic noise, you are sweating and you are not covered from the rain, cold or hot sun. Then you probably do now want to hear that all the dangers, polluted air, noise and so on are not in fact disadvantages of bicycles but disadvantages of cars. You need to listen possitive arguments . 3) Imagine you are a Pharo user and some wants you to switch to Self that is superior to Smalltalk in many areas you mention in your articles. What he would need to do to convince you? People in IT have in general very negativistic approach. When they see a new technology they are trying to find reasons why to do not invest into learning of it. So rather than looking at advantages they will check all disadvantages twice. Some of them feel good and smart if they find some mistake in the articles so totry to lie to them can be very counterproductive. The interview with Stef was a great way how to promote Pharo. Look at the rating and comments to your last article: https://www.reddit .com/r/programming/comments/7d9uz2/why_pharo _might_be_the_future_of_software/ If it is not the prove for you that you are doing something wrong then continue. But then be not surprised that even the Smalltalkers will downvolt your writings. Cheers, -- Pavel 2017-11-18 4:55 GMT+01:00 horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com>: > I appreciate all the feedback, even the negative comments. Let me address > some of them... > > First of all, you need to understand that this article, like nearly all of > my other articles, is about /marketing/. I've never made any bones about > this. > > If you know anything about marketing, you know that it involves > exaggeration > and hyperbole. It sometimes involves bending the truth. The point of > marketing is to persuade on an emotional level, not a logical one. > > This is exactly what companies like Apple and Microsoft do. If you think > Apple ads tell the absolute truth, then you are terribly naive. > > So, is Pharo being used to fight Ebola? Not exactly, but who cares? I'm > trying to change people's perception. I'm trying to *move* them. If I have > to exaggerate, I will do so. > > Has everybody heard of Smalltalk? Of course not. And it doesn't matter. I'm > taking /literary licence/. As a writer and a marketer, I am allowed to do > this. > > Second, the article hasn't been published yet that pleases everybody. I > accept that some people may not like what I've written, and that's > perfectly > fine. > > What's not perfectly fine is if the majority of readers are turned off by > my > article. I do not believe this is the case. I have published literally > hundreds of Smalltalk articles over the past three years, most of them on > Medium, and I've tracked responses and viewership. As far as I can tell, > these articles have been generally well-received. I have something of a fan > base! > > Something else that I've been told: marketing to programmers will not work > because they are too smart for that. What a load of bullcrap! Programmers > are human beings, and all human beings are susceptible to marketing. My > Smalltalk campaign over the past three years have proven that it works. > > So why should I stop? > > Third,... > > > You will not convince people to use Pharo by spitting on everything else. > > What am I spitting on? I claim that the way everybody has been doing > programming, ie, with file-based languages, has not been ideal for > productivity. That's not insulting. That's just the truth. > > Isn't that why we use Pharo (Smalltalk)? For productivity reasons? > > > But even more important is that I don't understand why people always talk > > about the future when the only thing they do is telling the past. > > The future is always based on the past. There is no future if you ignore > the > past (and the present). > > Again, the reason for bringing up BYTE magazine is to move people. And it > seems to work. > > Telling people about how Smalltalk was once a high flyer in the 1990s and > that IBM chose Smalltalk as the centrepiece of their VisualAge enterprise > initiative to replace COBOL also works. > > Giving this information to people will offer some comfort and confidence > that choosing Pharo won't be a mistake. > > If my marketing campaign is hurting Smalltalk and Pharo, you'll have to > show > me the evidence. If you can, then I will stop. I am only here to serve you. > > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > >

Nov. 18, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] New Pharo article at The Cohort

by Hans N. Beck

Hi, my personal opinion to this topic is: Iâm say thanks to everyone who is enganged in Pharo and better ways of thinking and writing software. Thatâs first. Yes we are living in a time where words are analysed, interpreted and instrumenatlized for own purposes. People seems to look more to what they can take out from a wording for their own purpose than trying to understand what the author wanted to say. The other thing is, not everyone is a educated writer from the beginning. So helping together to âspread the wordâ in a manner which has the best chances to be understand right, help together to become better writer and communicater is my suggestion. Statements like âstop writingâ doesânt help, I think. Having said this and related to the basic Statements below, I agree much with Ben. Cheers Hans Gesendet von Mail fÃ¼r Windows 10 Von: Ben Coman Gesendet: Samstag, 18. November 2017 07:13 An: Any question about pharo is welcome Betreff: Re: [Pharo-users] New Pharo article at The Cohort I'm not going to ask you to stop writing.Â I think its difficult to get the balance right,Â and I think you are improving every time. But there are some points to consider... On 18 November 2017 at 11:55, horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com> wrote: I appreciate all the feedback, even the negative comments. Let me address some of them... First of all, you need to understand that this article, like nearly all of my other articles, is about /marketing/. I've never made any bones about this. If you know anything about marketing, you know that it involves exaggeration and hyperbole. It sometimes involves bending the truth. The point of marketing is to persuade on an emotional level, not a logical one. This is exactly what companies like Apple and Microsoft do. If you think Apple ads tell the absolute truth, then you are terribly naive. That is Apple and Microsoft talking about *themselves* to the present the image *they* want. But you discuss the work of other people, which impacts their self-image, and it behooves you to consider that impact on them. Â So, is Pharo being used to fight Ebola? Not exactly, but who cares? I'm trying to change people's perception. I'm trying to *move* them. If I have to exaggerate, I will do so. Case in point. Â Has everybody heard of Smalltalk? Of course not. And it doesn't matter. I'm taking /literary licence/. As a writer and a marketer, I am allowed to do this. It could be easy for your audience to mistake that you represent Pharo. So the people whose work you write about can feel impacted by any exaggeration you use. A strategy could be to distinguish yourself as an enthusiastic userÂ rather than a core developer, which would likely improve the authenticity for both parties. Consider that in a world where we a constantly marketed to, the sensitivity of your audience to Signals & Noise in your message... http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/homesteading/ar01s11.html Â Second, the article hasn't been published yet that pleases everybody. I accept that some people may not like what I've written, and that's perfectly fine. What's not perfectly fine is if the majority of readers are turned off by my article. I do not believe this is the case. I have published literally hundreds of Smalltalk articles over the past three years, most of them on Medium, and I've tracked responses and viewership. As far as I can tell, these articles have been generally well-received. I have something of a fan base! Something else that I've been told: marketing to programmers will not work because they are too smart for that. What a load of bullcrap! Programmers are human beings, and all human beings are susceptible to marketing. My Smalltalk campaign over the past three years have proven that it works. So why should I stop? Third,... > You will not convince people to use Pharo by spitting on everything else. What am I spitting on? I claim that the way everybody has been doing programming, ie, with file-based languages, has not been ideal for productivity. That's not insulting. That's just the truth. Isn't that why we use Pharo (Smalltalk)? For productivity reasons? General statements about functionality are not so problematic.Â Â Its more when being specific about "Pharo is better than languages X and Y"Â which may create a barrier to for people that love X or Y from listening to your message. HTH cheers -ben --- Diese E-Mail wurde von AVG auf Viren geprÃ¼ft. http://www.avg.com

Nov. 18, 2017

[ANN] Pharo TechTalk 21 Nov: Discord Demo

by Marcus Denker

Pharo TechTalk: Discord Demo When? 21 Nov 2017 5:00 PM - 7:00 PM (UTC+01:00) Topic: "Discord communication Demoâ, how to script discord from Pharo. https://association.pharo.org/event-2642665

Nov. 18, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] New Pharo article at The Cohort

by Ben Coman

I'm not going to ask you to stop writing. I think its difficult to get the balance right, and I think you are improving every time. But there are some points to consider... On 18 November 2017 at 11:55, horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I appreciate all the feedback, even the negative comments. Let me address > some of them... > > First of all, you need to understand that this article, like nearly all of > my other articles, is about /marketing/. I've never made any bones about > this. > > If you know anything about marketing, you know that it involves > exaggeration > and hyperbole. It sometimes involves bending the truth. The point of > marketing is to persuade on an emotional level, not a logical one. > > This is exactly what companies like Apple and Microsoft do. If you think > Apple ads tell the absolute truth, then you are terribly naive. > That is Apple and Microsoft talking about *themselves* to the present the image *they* want. But you discuss the work of other people, which impacts their self-image, and it behooves you to consider that impact on them. > > So, is Pharo being used to fight Ebola? Not exactly, but who cares? I'm > trying to change people's perception. I'm trying to *move* them. If I have > to exaggerate, I will do so. > Case in point. > > Has everybody heard of Smalltalk? Of course not. And it doesn't matter. I'm > taking /literary licence/. As a writer and a marketer, I am allowed to do > this. > It could be easy for your audience to mistake that you represent Pharo. So the people whose work you write about can feel impacted by any exaggeration you use. A strategy could be to distinguish yourself as an enthusiastic user rather than a core developer, which would likely improve the authenticity for both parties. Consider that in a world where we a constantly marketed to, the sensitivity of your audience to Signals & Noise in your message... http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/homesteading/ar01s11.html > > Second, the article hasn't been published yet that pleases everybody. I > accept that some people may not like what I've written, and that's > perfectly > fine. > > What's not perfectly fine is if the majority of readers are turned off by > my > article. I do not believe this is the case. I have published literally > hundreds of Smalltalk articles over the past three years, most of them on > Medium, and I've tracked responses and viewership. As far as I can tell, > these articles have been generally well-received. I have something of a fan > base! > > Something else that I've been told: marketing to programmers will not work > because they are too smart for that. What a load of bullcrap! Programmers > are human beings, and all human beings are susceptible to marketing. My > Smalltalk campaign over the past three years have proven that it works. > > So why should I stop? > > Third,... > > > You will not convince people to use Pharo by spitting on everything else. > > What am I spitting on? I claim that the way everybody has been doing > programming, ie, with file-based languages, has not been ideal for > productivity. That's not insulting. That's just the truth. > > Isn't that why we use Pharo (Smalltalk)? For productivity reasons? > General statements about functionality are not so problematic. Its more when being specific about "Pharo is better than languages X and Y" which may create a barrier to for people that love X or Y from listening to your message. HTH cheers -ben

Nov. 18, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] New Pharo article at The Cohort

by horrido

I appreciate all the feedback, even the negative comments. Let me address some of them... First of all, you need to understand that this article, like nearly all of my other articles, is about /marketing/. I've never made any bones about this. If you know anything about marketing, you know that it involves exaggeration and hyperbole. It sometimes involves bending the truth. The point of marketing is to persuade on an emotional level, not a logical one. This is exactly what companies like Apple and Microsoft do. If you think Apple ads tell the absolute truth, then you are terribly naive. So, is Pharo being used to fight Ebola? Not exactly, but who cares? I'm trying to change people's perception. I'm trying to *move* them. If I have to exaggerate, I will do so. Has everybody heard of Smalltalk? Of course not. And it doesn't matter. I'm taking /literary licence/. As a writer and a marketer, I am allowed to do this. Second, the article hasn't been published yet that pleases everybody. I accept that some people may not like what I've written, and that's perfectly fine. What's not perfectly fine is if the majority of readers are turned off by my article. I do not believe this is the case. I have published literally hundreds of Smalltalk articles over the past three years, most of them on Medium, and I've tracked responses and viewership. As far as I can tell, these articles have been generally well-received. I have something of a fan base! Something else that I've been told: marketing to programmers will not work because they are too smart for that. What a load of bullcrap! Programmers are human beings, and all human beings are susceptible to marketing. My Smalltalk campaign over the past three years have proven that it works. So why should I stop? Third,... > You will not convince people to use Pharo by spitting on everything else. What am I spitting on? I claim that the way everybody has been doing programming, ie, with file-based languages, has not been ideal for productivity. That's not insulting. That's just the truth. Isn't that why we use Pharo (Smalltalk)? For productivity reasons? > But even more important is that I don't understand why people always talk > about the future when the only thing they do is telling the past. The future is always based on the past. There is no future if you ignore the past (and the present). Again, the reason for bringing up BYTE magazine is to move people. And it seems to work. Telling people about how Smalltalk was once a high flyer in the 1990s and that IBM chose Smalltalk as the centrepiece of their VisualAge enterprise initiative to replace COBOL also works. Giving this information to people will offer some comfort and confidence that choosing Pharo won't be a mistake. If my marketing campaign is hurting Smalltalk and Pharo, you'll have to show me the evidence. If you can, then I will stop. I am only here to serve you. -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Nov. 18, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Catching EOF in SmaCC

by Thierry Goubier

Hi Andrew, Le 17/11/2017 Ã 12:26, Prof. Andrew P. Black a Ã©critÂ : > >> On 17 Nov 2017, at 14:10 , Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> there is an 'E O F' token generated by SmaCC; I haven't tried to use it in a parser yet. > > I tried patching the tokenActions table to trap on this, but the token id for E O F is outside of the range of the table. The Python example that you pointed me to is a little different. It overrides scannerError, and explicitly adds a newline token if there is an error at the end of the file. It doesnât actually use the E O F token, but it is probably a pattern that I can steal. In all honesty, I wasn't thinking about that, but instead to be able to write '<eof>' in the grammar itself to terminate statements. The Python approach is necessary because you may have to emit additional dedent tokens at the end of a file (this is a typical issue of those meaningfull identation whitespace languages: an idea used in the very beginning of programming languages, then considered harmfull, then coming back up again...). > > In the meantime, I made the final StatementSeparator (<newline> or ";") optional in all the productions. The grammar is a bit ugly, but the parser is cleaner. Which is the cleanest way to do it (at least, like that, you have a documented way around that instead of carrying around a grammar + hacks in the scanner)(*) > I also gave up trying to eliminate intermediate parseTree nodes. Instead, I eliminated intermediate productions form the grammar. This makes the grammar more ugly (it has several repetitions where I inlined the intermediate productions), but the > tree construction is a lot more straightforward. Sorry for having been unable to answer your questions on that :( I'm happy to learn you've found a way around it. Thierry (*) Which is still way better than a hand-written, recursive descent parser where any line can hide a hack... > Andrew > > >

Nov. 17, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Catching EOF in SmaCC

by Prof. Andrew P. Black

> On 17 Nov 2017, at 14:10 , Thierry Goubier <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > there is an 'E O F' token generated by SmaCC; I haven't tried to use it in a parser yet. I tried patching the tokenActions table to trap on this, but the token id for E O F is outside of the range of the table. The Python example that you pointed me to is a little different. It overrides scannerError, and explicitly adds a newline token if there is an error at the end of the file. It doesnât actually use the E O F token, but it is probably a pattern that I can steal. In the meantime, I made the final StatementSeparator (<newline> or ";") optional in all the productions. The grammar is a bit ugly, but the parser is cleaner. I also gave up trying to eliminate intermediate parseTree nodes. Instead, I eliminated intermediate productions form the grammar. This makes the grammar more ugly (it has several repetitions where I inlined the intermediate productions), but the tree construction is a lot more straightforward. Andrew

Nov. 17, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo-Chrome (was: Soup bug(fix))

by Alistair Grant

An updated version is available including: * The fix for spaces in the executable name mentioned below. * Support for Chrome headless mode. * Improved screenshot capture (it now captures the entire page, see the README) * Extended documentation (README.md) Cheers, Alistair On 16 November 2017 at 19:22, Alistair Grant <akgrant0710(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Sean & Mariano, > > On 16 November 2017 at 00:21, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: >> Alistair Grant wrote >>> I'm glad (and relieved :-)) to hear that it is working. >>> >>> Would you mind sending the modified command path that you're using so >>> I can update the code? (I guess that it is just removing the >>> backspaces, but just in case...). >> >> That is correctâ¦ >> >> OSSUnixSubprocess new >> command: '/Applications/Google Chrome.app/Contents/MacOS/Google Chrome'; >> arguments: #('--user-data-dir=/tmp/pharo/GoogleChrome/debugSession' >> '--remote-debugging-port=9222'); >> run. > > Thanks for the confirmation. I'll update the package soon(ish). > > > On 16 November 2017 at 12:16, Mariano Martinez Peck > <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Yeah, OSSubprocess wont interpret, not expand anything. If you want to use >> shell, then you have to use #shellCommand: or #shell:command: (see its >> senders for test examples) > > Sigh... The code originally just called system(). When I wanted to be > able to terminate the chrome process I switched to OSSubprocess. The > linux paths happen to not have spaces in them, and I didn't even think > of this. Sorry about that. > > Cheers, > Alistair

Nov. 17, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Network data exchange - Basys and Seamless usage questioning

by CÃ©drick BÃ©ler

> > Lets say image A1, A2, A3 belongs to Alice. And image B1, B2, â¦ to Bob. > > They exchange messages conveying information. So the aim of the network layer is for me to keep messages synchronized betweens A(s) and B(s). I have inbox and outbox for that. This is actually quite close to the basys abstractions on LocalPeer and RemotePeer (active and passive). > > So I played a bit with basys and can declare a network between A1 and B1 for instance. I wonder if I need as much network as possible connection (A1B1 A1B2 â¦ but also A1A2, A1A3, A2A3, â¦). Not sure how to declare network with more than 2 nodesâ¦ > > Probably not but if you have different purpose of connecting A<->A nodes and connecting A<->B nodes then it can be suitable to have separate networks for that. But it is difficult to answer without more information. Yes but Iâm thinking and trying stuff so more information one day may be far different the following days :) > I imaging following schema: > On each node you have single network instance. > Let's say we have node A1. Then other A1, A2 and B nodes connect to A1. By Basys logic they will be represented by remote peers inside A1 network instance. So you are able to enumerate all connected peers and sync some local information with them: > network remotePeers do: [:each | each sendDataPackage: myNewLocalData]. > And for incoming messages you can put them into inbox collection stored inside network instance: > YourNetwork>> process: anExchangeData receivedFrom: aRemotePeer > inboxQueue add: anExchangeData > And you can have separate process which handle this queue. I havenât though putting the in/oubox collections inside the network instance. Iâll try. > > So in that case I do not see the reason to create multiple instances of network for each pair of connected nodes. > What you think? Is my example relevant to your case? This was actually the question I was asking myself. What I imagined (not sure itâs really the way to go) to have proper operation between peer seen as a whole ( B composed of B1, B2, â¦), is to have a specific network for each. A has a network for all B nodes. A has a network for all C nodes. A has also a specific network (maybe more capable) to all others A nodes. I play with that in the we and see how it goes. Thanks for the information. It helps :) Cheers, CÃ©drick

Nov. 17, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Network data exchange - Basys and Seamless usage questioning

by CÃ©drick BÃ©ler

> > Have you seen ParrotTalk? > > http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography/ParrotTalk-HenryHouse.14.mcz <http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography/ParrotTalk-HenryHouse.14.mcz> Nope. Seen it but didnât try. I will. Cheers, CÃ©drick

Nov. 17, 2017