November 2017 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] Short report about Pharo experience

by Dimitris Chloupis

> > - Deployment: it should be possible to deploy a âsingle clickâ > application, independet if native GUI or Web App or Shiny like > - More standard solutions: many libraries have examples, but they are > sometimes to trivial or just irrelevant for daily practice > - More product oriented: libraries should have more wizzards or > application pattern. Imaginary example: for Teapot or Seaside would it be > fine if there were some code generator for a 4 Tile dashboard app, or a > data viz app, themes like in hugo or bootstrap. I may be wrong, but the > nature of many libraries or tools is âmake anything possibleâ instread of > âI help you to write your productâ. Do you understand what I want to say ? > > Anyway. I can state: Phare IS on the right way. It is. Much much progress > the last years. Thank you all ! And if it becomes more and more a product > for professionals (in industry), the future will be top ! And this doesnet > mean to give up the computer science part. Pharo is cool to try concepts > and ideas. So Pharo has BOTH sides, which does it make great. > > Cheers > > Hans > if by single click you mean you press a button and an application is created , technically with pharo you dont even need to push a button, as pharo is already an application. Pharo is not an IDE, is not a language, is not a virtual os , or a live coding enviroment. Its simply an application that fullfils all these roles.You may say "so what, everything is an application" , well not quite because Pharo is an application practically written in itself offering you direct access to all its internal making it completely customisable. Even its VM can be customised from inside Pharo which if you think about it, other languages would consider this a form of insanity and to a point they are correct to do so. Thus there is no point of creating standalone applications with Pharo because this goes against its very ideology of IDE, most IDEs nowdays miss the I, standing for Integration which means that you integrate development tools, plus language plus your code in one thing. These things are not used merely to create the application they are meant to be included with the application you create. I usually say to people that they have no clue what integration means until they coded in Smalltalk. Smalltalk is just light years ahead in that departmen and so is Pharo. A standalone application rips these things apart , its the seperation between development builds and release builds that are far less meaningful for Pharo and you will rarely read about them in this mailing list. The actual problem of Pharo is the sever lack of documentation. Its much better nowdays than it used to but the fact remains that biggest weakness of Pharo is that it moves about 1000 times faster than its documentation. This is one huge disadvantage of a very productive/ succesful development enviroment. Python which is a language I also regularly use on daily basise, its a language that barely changes wtih each version. The only singificant change for Python was Python 3 and even that pales in comparison to the massive changes we see in each Pharo version. The next version of Pharo for example may have a completely new GUI API , that is something you rarely see happening to a language. This is ok because Pharo obviously is not a programming language and neither is Smalltalk. On the matter of standalone applications , Pharo offers a masive degree of customisation that is unknown even amongst its most experienced users. Pretty much anything you see and dont see is customisable. So ironically Pharo offers a much larger degree of efficiency for generating standalone applications than any IDE or language out there , or even third party tool. By standalone in this case I mean application that execute by themselves without even a need to be installed. The reason for this, is the same reason Pharo is so extremely productive. Its not the live enviroment, its not the pure OOP, its not the IDE, or the simplicity of the language. Its the I, Integration. No language or IDE , however much more powerful it may seem can ever come close to competing with Pharo. That does not make Pharo the best choice, just the most flexible. In the end the fact that Pharo evolution is thousands times faster than its documentaiton is a very solid reason not to use Pharo and not to recommend to others. Because in the end documentation is extremely important. But this is one of those scenarios of not having your cake and eating too. With Pharo you choose to sacrifice documentation for high coding productivity. Of course lack of documentation hinders productivity but that is only temporarily until you learn what you want to learn. But then learning what you want make take years if not decades. To explain how one can create a standalone application with Pharo in full detail is to explain the entire Pharo in full detail. This is why articles that have been written in the past just barely scratch the surface and tend to give the opposite impression. Bottom line if you come to Pharo for wizards, documentation and generally hand holding attitude , go back to Python. Python is excellent at this role and is practically untouchable by its competition which is why it is considered the king of "ease of use". Pharo is the exact opposite, its difficult , frustration, annoying, messy and extremely manual. But if you search for most the powerful and flexible development enviroment in the world. Nothing comes remotely close to Pharo. Pharo is the undisputed king of Integration. It will blow your mind like a nuclear explosion of how extremely customisable it is. Which lead to the inate question what makes one more productive the Python or the Pharo ideology ? My answer is that Python offers more productivity in the short run (which is why is No 1 if not the only recommended language for beginners to coding) but in the long run after extensive study of the Pharo enviroment , which means reading tons upon tons of code (it sucks I know, especially when you realise that not even classes have comments), Pharo is the clear winner. As soon as you eliminate the need for documentation and wizard like attitude Pharo moves at the speed of light. There is an effort to make Pharo more Pythonic, but to be sincere, Pharo will always be Pharo and personally I do not like to hide Pharo shortcoming as I do not like to to hide its strenghts. Pharo essentially does not care about other languages, because its not a language. Pharo essentially does not care about IDEs, because its not an IDE. Pharo essentially does not care about wizards, because its not wzard. Pharo's charm is that it has the courage to say "I do not care , I will do things my way" and just push forward. So you could say Pharo is the very definition of acquired taste. Its not so much about being better and more about being diffirent. Which is a breath of fresh air in the world that everybody copies everybody else. So my advince to all newcomers is that if you are here for the right reasons and ready to commit to the Pharo ideology, arm yourself with massive amount of patience and march on. It will be a bumpy but extremely rewarding ride and completly change the way you think about coding and especially about OOP.

Nov. 23, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Short report about Pharo experience

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

Thanks for your report Hans. With Grafoscopio[1] I want to provide a "product/app" instead of a library (of course it can exists because of the excellent libraries Pharo ecosystem is providing) that bridges the gap between user/developer and expert/novice. Still its community is nascent and I have some reports of interest/use in this community and locally, but co-development is yet far away, I think. [1] http://mutabit.com/grafoscopio/index.en.html So yes, Pharo is pretty empowering and it has the proper direction and it is increasing in momentum, but still we need to traverse a long path to enlarge the ecosystem and made it more "end user" friendly by offering more "end user" apps made with Pharo & friends. Cheers, Offray On 22/11/17 18:23, Hans N Beck wrote: > Hi, > > Shiny for the R language is a very useful technique to create responsive applications based on Web technologies - with all the advantage the big ecosystem of JS libraries offers. > With Shiny in mind, Iâm working with Teapot on Pharo. Dashboard like use interface with Processing (exactly: p5.js) and other things is in mind. > From my job, I do a similiar thing. But because of our IT policy, I have to work with Python (using Tornado server and Dash) and SignalR for Microsoft .Net (exactly: ASP.net) > > So I can compare. And if I remember the work with Pharo many years ago, I can state the following: > > - The Microsoft Visual Studio offers a lot. It has many functions, assistants, components and libraries and a huge bunch of documentation which support to concentrate on the problem. Details are hidden, and even deployment is a matter of minutes. But this professionallity has the downsize of complexity, and to understand whats going on is not always easy. But if you manage this complexity you can get professional apps in a reasonable time. > > - Python is flexible and dynamic. I use the Anaconda distribution with Spyder which has good support for interactivity and debugging. Many libraries of good quality are available in the python world, you can tackle any problem. Also here: support professional software development in good time is given. A little bit more than Microsoft, the Python things are more understandable and more lightweight. > > Pharo, in its incarnation today (6.1) comes very near to this. Also Pharo has many libraries, a good to use âIDEâ and professional tools for debugging and profiling. BUT: Pharo is far more transparent. The interactivity and the availability of every sourcecode in combination with the debugging capabilities inherent to Smalltalk are helping to understand every thing. And Pharos today documentation address now relevant but not to complicated problems, cover all important tools and libraries and supports starting at beginner level. Pharo has lost the nature of a expert or nerd secret magic wizard tool. > > In this direct comparison, I had some wishes for the future of Pharo: > > - Deployment: it should be possible to deploy a âsingle clickâ application, independet if native GUI or Web App or Shiny like > - More standard solutions: many libraries have examples, but they are sometimes to trivial or just irrelevant for daily practice > - More product oriented: libraries should have more wizzards or application pattern. Imaginary example: for Teapot or Seaside would it be fine if there were some code generator for a 4 Tile dashboard app, or a data viz app, themes like in hugo or bootstrap. I may be wrong, but the nature of many libraries or tools is âmake anything possibleâ instread of âI help you to write your productâ. Do you understand what I want to say ? > > Anyway. I can state: Phare IS on the right way. It is. Much much progress the last years. Thank you all ! And if it becomes more and more a product for professionals (in industry), the future will be top ! And this doesnet mean to give up the computer science part. Pharo is cool to try concepts and ideas. So Pharo has BOTH sides, which does it make great. > > Cheers > > Hans > > > > > > >

Nov. 22, 2017

A bug: Pharo creates additional system folders on load

by ÐÐ¸ÐºÐµÐ½ÑÐ¸Ð¹ ÐÐ¾ÑÐ°Ð¿Ð¾Ð²

Hello! I've found that Pharo 6\6.1 creates its own copy of some system folders in Users folder. For example, it creates its own folder with strange name: "Â¨ê¥ò¨©AppData" at path "c:\Users\" which contains: "Roaming" subfolder with files: org.pharo.gt.spotter.event.recorder.fuel org.pharo.global-identifiers.ston I think it's also because of poor i18n support. The right AppData locates at "c:\Users\ÐÐ´Ð¼Ð¸Ð½Ð¸ÑÑÑÐ°ÑÐ¾Ñ\" folder (with non-latin characters), there's no such problem on other computer with english locale and english user name, Folders and files are created on image load. The system is Win7 pro. Best regards, Vikenti Potapov

Nov. 22, 2017

Short report about Pharo experience

by Hans N Beck

Hi, Shiny for the R language is a very useful technique to create responsive applications based on Web technologies - with all the advantage the big ecosystem of JS libraries offers. With Shiny in mind, Iâm working with Teapot on Pharo. Dashboard like use interface with Processing (exactly: p5.js) and other things is in mind. >From my job, I do a similiar thing. But because of our IT policy, I have to work with Python (using Tornado server and Dash) and SignalR for Microsoft .Net (exactly: ASP.net) So I can compare. And if I remember the work with Pharo many years ago, I can state the following: - The Microsoft Visual Studio offers a lot. It has many functions, assistants, components and libraries and a huge bunch of documentation which support to concentrate on the problem. Details are hidden, and even deployment is a matter of minutes. But this professionallity has the downsize of complexity, and to understand whats going on is not always easy. But if you manage this complexity you can get professional apps in a reasonable time. - Python is flexible and dynamic. I use the Anaconda distribution with Spyder which has good support for interactivity and debugging. Many libraries of good quality are available in the python world, you can tackle any problem. Also here: support professional software development in good time is given. A little bit more than Microsoft, the Python things are more understandable and more lightweight. Pharo, in its incarnation today (6.1) comes very near to this. Also Pharo has many libraries, a good to use âIDEâ and professional tools for debugging and profiling. BUT: Pharo is far more transparent. The interactivity and the availability of every sourcecode in combination with the debugging capabilities inherent to Smalltalk are helping to understand every thing. And Pharos today documentation address now relevant but not to complicated problems, cover all important tools and libraries and supports starting at beginner level. Pharo has lost the nature of a expert or nerd secret magic wizard tool. In this direct comparison, I had some wishes for the future of Pharo: - Deployment: it should be possible to deploy a âsingle clickâ application, independet if native GUI or Web App or Shiny like - More standard solutions: many libraries have examples, but they are sometimes to trivial or just irrelevant for daily practice - More product oriented: libraries should have more wizzards or application pattern. Imaginary example: for Teapot or Seaside would it be fine if there were some code generator for a 4 Tile dashboard app, or a data viz app, themes like in hugo or bootstrap. I may be wrong, but the nature of many libraries or tools is âmake anything possibleâ instread of âI help you to write your productâ. Do you understand what I want to say ? Anyway. I can state: Phare IS on the right way. It is. Much much progress the last years. Thank you all ! And if it becomes more and more a product for professionals (in industry), the future will be top ! And this doesnet mean to give up the computer science part. Pharo is cool to try concepts and ideas. So Pharo has BOTH sides, which does it make great. Cheers Hans

Nov. 22, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Travis build failing because of bad CRC

by Norbert Hartl

This more than super annoying. And it is as bad for smalltalkhub as it is for the files.pharo.org server > Am 22.11.2017 um 21:35 schrieb Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com>: > > Marcus told me that he wants to address this problem because this is > super annoying. > > Stef > >> On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 7:57 PM, Julien <julien.delplanque(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> So the fix is just to relaunch the build? :-) >> >> Julien >> >>> Le 19 nov. 2017 Ã 19:56, Cyril Ferlicot D. <cyril.ferlicot(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : >>> >>> Le 19/11/2017 Ã 19:54, Julien a Ã©crit : >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> Iâm trying to set up continuous integration for one of my project but I >>>> have an error with the CRC of the VM (see the >>>> log https://travis-ci.org/juliendelplanque/PostgreSQLParser/jobs/304401690) >>>> >>>> Is it my fault? >>>> >>> >>> Not your fault. It happen also randomly on Synectique's CI. >>> >>>> Thanks in advance, >>>> >>>> Julien >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Cyril Ferlicot >>> https://ferlicot.fr >>> >>> http://www.synectique.eu >>> 2 rue Jacques PrÃ©vert 01, >>> 59650 Villeneuve d'ascq France >>> >> >>

Nov. 22, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Travis build failing because of bad CRC

by Stephane Ducasse

Marcus told me that he wants to address this problem because this is super annoying. Stef On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 7:57 PM, Julien <julien.delplanque(a)inria.fr> wrote: > So the fix is just to relaunch the build? :-) > > Julien > >> Le 19 nov. 2017 Ã 19:56, Cyril Ferlicot D. <cyril.ferlicot(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : >> >> Le 19/11/2017 Ã 19:54, Julien a Ã©crit : >>> Hello, >>> >>> Iâm trying to set up continuous integration for one of my project but I >>> have an error with the CRC of the VM (see the >>> log https://travis-ci.org/juliendelplanque/PostgreSQLParser/jobs/304401690) >>> >>> Is it my fault? >>> >> >> Not your fault. It happen also randomly on Synectique's CI. >> >>> Thanks in advance, >>> >>> Julien >> >> >> -- >> Cyril Ferlicot >> https://ferlicot.fr >> >> http://www.synectique.eu >> 2 rue Jacques PrÃ©vert 01, >> 59650 Villeneuve d'ascq France >> > >

Nov. 22, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Deploying using the minimal image of Pharo

by Stephane Ducasse

Hi gabriel We added support for baseline on github in Pharo 70. It would be interesting to see if you get better smoother results with Pharo70. Stef On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 1:37 AM, gabriel sor <despotadesdibujau(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > In in the past days, in the context of the Smalltalks 2017 conference, I > talked about my attempt to deploy on production using the minimal image of > Pharo . > My goal was prepare an inmutable or staless minimal image for deploy, > without sources nor changes files. > The results are exposed in this tutorial. > The size of the image is 16 MB and it has loaded Seaside. > Just I have a pendeing issue: the staless image but everything else is > done and working.

Nov. 22, 2017

Glorp v130 call for testing

by Alistair Grant

Hi Everyone, I've merged the changes in: - Glorp-HerbyVojcik.127 and - Glorp-AlistairGrant.129 into Glorp-AlistairGrant.130 127 and 129 were both based on 126, but had diverged. This brings them back together. The new version can be loaded using #development, e.g.: Gofer it smalltalkhubUser: 'DBXTalk' project: 'Glorp'; configuration; load. (#ConfigurationOfGlorp asClass project version: #development) load. If you are using Glorp, I'd appreciate it if you could test this and let me know if there are any problems. Herby? :-) Thanks, Alistair

Nov. 22, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] [ANN] Pharo TechTalk 21 Nov: Discord Demo

by Juraj Kubelka

> On Nov 21, 2017, at 19:54, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Well done :) > > Now you can make a discord client inside the Pharo image if you want. Exactly :-) I am looking for integrations that improve the developer experience. Maybe the interface should be different from the standard client. The question is how to integrate and why? What do you think? Cheers, Juraj > On Tue, 21 Nov 2017 at 21:03, Juraj Kubelka <juraj.kubelka(a)icloud.com <mailto:juraj.kubelka@icloud.com>> wrote: > Hi, > > the TechTalk record is available at the same link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33kXsOiP6wA <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33kXsOiP6wA> > and includes outline to simplify navigation. > > Cheers, > Juraj > > > TechTalk Outline: > - 01:58 The beginning of the talk > - 04:30 Webhook > - 04:33 How to Create Webhook > - 05:39 Webhook Examples > - 10:33 Webhook Use Case: Script of the Day from Nautilus Code Browser > - 18:39 Webhook Use Case: Server Problem Notification > - 22:45 Bot App (chatbot) > - 24:47 How to Create a Bot App > - 28:28 Bot App Examples > - 33:17 Bot Use Case: Source Code Expertise > - 41:40 Standard User Client > - 42:57 User Client Example > - 45:06 User Client Use Case: Asking Directly from Pharo Playground > - 47:06 User Client Use Case: Receiving Questions and Answering in Pharo > - 50:50 Final Thoughts About Discord Integration in Inspector and Debugger > - 52:44 Discussion > >> On Nov 21, 2017, at 12:54, Juraj Kubelka <juraj.kubelka(a)icloud.com <mailto:juraj.kubelka@icloud.com>> wrote: >> >> Hi! >> >> The TechTalk starts in about 10 minutes. Join us on Discord, the techtalk channel. >> >> Cheers, >> Juraj >> >> >>> On Nov 21, 2017, at 10:11, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr <mailto:marcus.denker@inria.fr>> wrote: >>> >>> The link to the live stream is this: >>> >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33kXsOiP6wA <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33kXsOiP6wA> >>> >>> It start in a bit less than 3 hours. >>> >>> Marcus >>> >>>> On 18 Nov 2017, at 09:13, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr <mailto:marcus.denker@inria.fr>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Pharo TechTalk: Discord Demo >>>> When? 21 Nov 2017 5:00 PM - 7:00 PM (UTC+01:00) >>>> >>>> Topic: "Discord communication Demoâ, how to script discord from Pharo. >>>> >>>> https://association.pharo.org/event-2642665 <https://association.pharo.org/event-2642665> >>> >> >

Nov. 22, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] Things that may be of interest in terms of time zone / geospatial mapping.

by Andrew Glynn

In terms of integrating Pharo with any of these technologies, it can be done with Apache Synapse, and/or a combination of JINI (Apache River) services mapped to their Vert.x equivalents. (using Stamp or VerStix). I have the code for the latter. If anyone wants it I can clean it up to be presentable and put it on GitHub. The former can be done via Synapse configuration, including adding the requisite Axis2 protocol. Of course, already written code is also easier to port than new code is to write, generally speaking. Since a number of the projects call out to publicly available resources, those would be relatively easy to rewrite in Pharo. In any case, there are at least a couple of articles / projects that may be of interest. Apologies for the length of the post â if itâs not of interest just skip it. Andrew Glynn >From the Eclipse Foundation newsletter: Eclipse Newsletter - 2017.11.22 Location Matters Editor's Note There is an assumption that up to 80% of all objects and activities are linked to a specific and unique location, permanently or at any given time. This implies that a majority of all - big and small - data has a spatial or spatial-temporal component. Something that is of great value for asset management, remote sensing, IoT, and autonomous cars, just to name a few. No wonder that geospatial technology has become the must-have in many commercial and industrial applications. LocationTech, an Eclipse Foundation Working Group for spatially aware technology, is the home for Big (and smaller) Geospatial Data processing and visualization components and development tools. Within LocationTech, a variety of stakeholders collaborate on projects that deal with the various challenges presented by the 'Big Data V's'. This issue of the Eclipse Newsletter is dedicated to some of the latest Big Geospatial Data development projects available. We kick off with an article about the open source geospatial toolkit, JTS 1.15. We then explore LocationTech GeoTrellis before moving on to two case studies: 1) exactEarth and GeoMesa being used for Hurricane Harvey and 2) Spatial Data and Precision Agriculture. Finally, we learn what's new in GeoGig 1.2. You are welcome to join the conversation, participate, and benefit regardless of background - industry, government, science, or academia, etc. We'd like to thank the Eclipse LocationTech community for contributing these articles. It was a great pleasure to work with each author and the community as a whole. Articles Geospatial starts with Geometry A cornerstone of the open source geospatial toolkit, JTS 1.15 brings spatial data types, spatial relationships, and spatial operations for processing geometries to the Eclipse Foundation. LocationTech GeoTrellis - What's New GeoTrellis continues to advance the field of distributed processing of geospatial imagery and raster data. Maritime Location Intelligence with exactEarth data and LocationTech GeoMesa The CCRI team shows how exactEarthâs maritime dataset was used with GeoMesa to explore shipping traffic during Hurricane Harvey. Spatial Data and Precision Agriculture Witness the power of LocationTech software when used as a tool for precision agriculture and large scale farming. LocationTech GeoGig 1.2.0 now released! GeoGig 1.2 delivers improved usability with QGIS, better Replication and support for GeoServer 2.12. Articles Eclipse Newsletter - 2017.11.22 Location Matters LocationTech GeoTrellis - What's New GeoTrellis continues to advance the field of distributed processing of geospatial imagery and raster data. Maritime Location Intelligence with exactEarth data and LocationTech GeoMesa The CCRI team shows how exactEarthâs maritime dataset was used with GeoMesa to explore shipping traffic during Hurricane Harvey. Spatial Data and Precision Agriculture Witness the power of LocationTech software when used as a tool for precision agriculture and large scale farming. LocationTech GeoGig 1.2.0 now released! GeoGig 1.2 delivers improved usability with QGIS, better Replication and support for GeoServer 2.12. What is FOSS4G NA 2018 Get a sneak peek at the premier 2018 North American conference and tradeshow for all things open source geospatial comes to St. Louis, MO.

Nov. 22, 2017