October 2017 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

by HernÃ¡n Morales Durand

Hi Richard, I would change the link text where machine learning refers to BioSmalltalk. Actually it is more a library for Bioinformatics. Cheers, HernÃ¡n 2017-10-04 7:30 GMT-03:00 horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com>: > Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk > <https://medium.com/smalltalk-talk/behold-pharo-the-modern-smalltalk-38e132c…> > > If you would like to suggest some edits, I'm all ears. Anything to improve > the impact of the article. > > Thanks. > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >

Oct. 4, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 7 license question

by Jimmie Houchin

Thanks for the reply.Â I am not very familiar with compiled code. I just wanted to explore and see if there were any ways that Pharo and GPL sources could work together. The only way I see that can happen is to have your GPL code provide something like a REST API and communicate via networking. Not very friendly for some small situations. Jimmie On 10/04/2017 08:09 AM, Ben Coman wrote: > > > On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 1:45 AM, Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com > <mailto:jlhouchin@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Back on topic. > > To my understanding, if I should port anything GPL licensed that I > needed from some language to a C library and licensed it GPL. Then > I called my new GPL C library via UFFI. I should have no problems > at all. Is that a correct understanding by all? > > Does this look like a good approach for most anyone in the Pharo > community if they desire to port and use GPL software? > > > UFFI is use via "linking", so your C library needs to LGPL to avoid > your Smalltalk code needing to be GPL licensed. > cheers -ben > > > Thanks. > > Jimmie > > > > On 09/15/2017 03:49 PM, Jimmie Houchin wrote: > > Hello, > > Pharo 7 to my understanding fundamentally changes Pharo. It is > my understanding that Pharo 7 starts with a core Pharo kernel > and like many languages out there, imports or adds code from a > variety of external sources to the image being built. > > With that understanding, I am curious if that would allow for > inclusion of a specific library/module to be licensed as GPL? > And it not affect the other code in the composed image? > > I am a big believer in the MIT/BSD license and not a big fan > of the GPL. However, there is software out there that I have > avoided looking at the source code or attempting to port it to > Pharo because it is GPL. I would sincerely love if I could now > port such a library and license it under the GPL as required, > and it not affect any other code outside of that specific library. > > I am not a lawyer. Nor do I know any lawyers. Is is possible > for someone to get a reasonably definitive answer on this > question? > > I am sure I am not the only one who has had this desire. I am > also sure that I am not the only one who will have this > question in the future. So it would be nice to have a proper > legal response that could possibly be explicitly stated > somewhere on the website or on an FAQ or something. > > Regardless of the answer, yes or no. It does need to be a > settled issue for Pharo. That way someone could know if > GPL/LGPL or whatever software could be in the catalog. > > Just wanted to put that out there to the community. I look > forward to the answer, should one be or become available. > > Thanks. > > > Jimmie > > > > >

Oct. 4, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 7 license question

by Jimmie Houchin

On 10/04/2017 03:48 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: >> On 3 Oct 2017, at 06:10, Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Good and valid questions. >> >> Primarily consumer side. I am a longtime user of Linux, 20+ years. I prefer and advocate for open source software even when required to use Windows/Mac. So in general in personal life with friends, family, acquaintances if the subject is computers or software and the opportunity is reasonable I will advocate for open source software. Many times simply as an opportunity to educate people who may not know or be misinformed. >> >> I am a business man, an employee of a company. My employer is purely a Windows shop. No development is a part of my day job. >> >> All of my use of development software is personal projects. I have not released any software. Nothing has reached a point to release. I am however wanting to release a couple of projects this next year. One I hope to make money off of the use of and not the sale of. The other is personal, not business software. I hope to have both in a releasable state sometime in the next 6 months. >> >> My problem has always been indecision on what I thought would be the best language for the project. I have always loved Pharo/Smalltalk. But sometimes I explore other languages. Sometimes because they already have libraries and bindings that would make the project easier. This is still a very reasonable possibility. I am not a professional. I only program in my spare time. Due to my job, sometimes that is very little. >> >> Regardless, the software I hope to get to a releasable stage I do plan on releasing as MIT. It is the license I prefer and believe in. One need not program or release software in order to be an advocate. >> >> I have no problem with someone writing closed source software. That is their personal or business choice. Myself, I have spent way to much money on software which was closed source and the company disappeared or changed directions. Then I am stuck with software that has no future. > This is a bit my point: if you respect closed-source software and commercial restrictive licenses, you should also respect GPL and friends as valid choices and not describe them with negative adjectives. > > On ethical grounds, I like GPL a lot. It is also very successful (Linux, GNU). It is a valid choice. And yes, in certain license constructions that could mean you cannot use certain software. Regarding negative adjectives. I asked for positive ones that are equivalent to the negative ones. I also demonstrated that the negative ones are quite often used positively in a number of areas beyond software. However, there is no better or even equivalent term for viral or infect(ious). I only brought up this discussion to see if the new Pharo 7 bootstrapping would open up the options to use GPL code. See, I was trying to do something positive with GPL source code. But the GPL license prevents this from happening. And because I respect licenses and laws. I will honor their choice, and their license and completely remove them from the option. I have not seen any way to port GPL software and use it from Pharo. That was my hope for this discussion. GPLv2 and GPLv3 don't even play nice with each other. I respect all choices. I also believe there are consequences for choices made. Anybody can choose to make their software GPL. I also can choose not to view the source of any of it because of the consequences of viewing that source code. Which means ultimately that GPL will have many people like me who opt out of their sources. I respect the right they have to make that choice. They also need to respect mine. We will probably have to agree to disagree on some of the above. I am okay with that. People have different views. > On a more positive note: I personally think that a system like Pharo is the ultimate open source incarnation as you can literally read and change each and every part in the same language (modulo the VM and plugins, but I am on the as-much-in-image as-possible side). I guess very, very few people actually looked inside the Linux kernel, C library or C compiler, let alone a driver, as these are much too complex and too far removed from your own program. In Pharo you can stumble into code in very deep areas such as graphics, the compiler, the debugger, etc ... I do love your positive note. You have aptly demonstrated your Pharo rock star status. I love everything you have done, even if I don't understand all your code. :)Â Maybe when I grow up, I can code like you. (Probably not. And I am not that young. I have children older than half the people here.) This ultimate open source incarnation of Pharo and its ability to find, see, change everything is a thing of beauty. Which is why I have always struggled when I look outside of Pharo and hear the benefits of whatever language. Then I go and try that language. It always drives me back to Pharo. The ability to discover classes and methods that do what you want is the best I have been able to find anywhere. I always struggle with file based languages. What editor is best. (I have never been an Emacs or Vim person.) How do I find the classes and methods I need to use. ... I come running home to Pharo. I think Pharo just keeps getting better. I can't wait for all of the git tools and Pharo 7 bootstrapping to mature. It will be nice. Thanks for engaging in the conversation. Jimmie

Oct. 4, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 7 license question

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 3 Oct 2017, at 06:10, Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Good and valid questions. > > Primarily consumer side. I am a longtime user of Linux, 20+ years. I prefer and advocate for open source software even when required to use Windows/Mac. So in general in personal life with friends, family, acquaintances if the subject is computers or software and the opportunity is reasonable I will advocate for open source software. Many times simply as an opportunity to educate people who may not know or be misinformed. > > I am a business man, an employee of a company. My employer is purely a Windows shop. No development is a part of my day job. > > All of my use of development software is personal projects. I have not released any software. Nothing has reached a point to release. I am however wanting to release a couple of projects this next year. One I hope to make money off of the use of and not the sale of. The other is personal, not business software. I hope to have both in a releasable state sometime in the next 6 months. > > My problem has always been indecision on what I thought would be the best language for the project. I have always loved Pharo/Smalltalk. But sometimes I explore other languages. Sometimes because they already have libraries and bindings that would make the project easier. This is still a very reasonable possibility. I am not a professional. I only program in my spare time. Due to my job, sometimes that is very little. > > Regardless, the software I hope to get to a releasable stage I do plan on releasing as MIT. It is the license I prefer and believe in. One need not program or release software in order to be an advocate. > > I have no problem with someone writing closed source software. That is their personal or business choice. Myself, I have spent way to much money on software which was closed source and the company disappeared or changed directions. Then I am stuck with software that has no future. This is a bit my point: if you respect closed-source software and commercial restrictive licenses, you should also respect GPL and friends as valid choices and not describe them with negative adjectives. On ethical grounds, I like GPL a lot. It is also very successful (Linux, GNU). It is a valid choice. And yes, in certain license constructions that could mean you cannot use certain software. On a more positive note: I personally think that a system like Pharo is the ultimate open source incarnation as you can literally read and change each and every part in the same language (modulo the VM and plugins, but I am on the as-much-in-image as-possible side). I guess very, very few people actually looked inside the Linux kernel, C library or C compiler, let alone a driver, as these are much too complex and too far removed from your own program. In Pharo you can stumble into code in very deep areas such as graphics, the compiler, the debugger, etc ... > Jimmie > > > On 10/02/2017 03:36 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: >> Jimmie, >> >> Since you started this thread, I have to ask. >> >> You say you are an advocate of open source software. OK. But are you just on the consumer side or also on the producer side ? In other words, have you written/published/supported any non-trivial open source software ? >> >> Are you an academic or are you involved in commercial software (i.e. have you written closed software that you sell or otherwise make money off) ? >> >> Sven >> >>> On 2 Oct 2017, at 22:06, Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> No I have not. I don't tend to go their direction very often. I am an advocate of open source software but am not a fan of FSF's ethics or political opinions. And as you say, that want all software to be GPL. Also, I do prefer to hear third party opinions especially those who have potentially court tested ones. That is ultimately where we find the true definition and understanding. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> Jimmie >>> >>> >>> >>> On 10/02/2017 02:48 PM, Peter UhnÃ¡k wrote: >>>> But of course this is written by FSF, and for them GPL is not just a legal matter, but an ethical one (and from their perspective GPL being a virus infecting other code is a good comparison, because they really want to take over). >>> >> > >

Oct. 4, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Update of ConfigurationOfGlorp

by Stephane Ducasse

Tx stephan On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 5:20 PM, stephan <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: > I've added a Pharo 7 version, copied the configurations from DBXTalk/Glorp > to DBXTalk/Configurations and the metarepos, and > replaced the #'Pharo6.0.x' style names by #'Pharo6.x' style. > Please let me know if that creates problems > > Stephan > >

Oct. 4, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Reading a text file line by line

by Stephane Ducasse

Hi sven I wonder how we can make progress on this front. Because we should move on. I'm fed up to get all this crap of the old stream around. Could not we just keep positionable stream and start to get rest nice? Stef On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > >> On 3 Oct 2017, at 10:53, Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Yes, in my todo, but changing FileReference like that will break a lot of backwards compatibility :) > > Yes it will. > > I have said this before: the problem is that the current stream API is much too wide, we need to trim it to something closer to what a stream is (and not assume that a stream always lives on top of a collection). > > We have compassable streams now, they work well. But they cannot implement the full API (since they are not streaming over collections). The biggest issue are the positioning message (like #skip: and #position:) which assume you known where you are and can move around at will, which is not possible for a real, indefinite stream. > >> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 10:22 AM, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Yes this is why we should continue to clean and remove cruft. Now I >> remember that guille did that for File. >> >> Stef >> >> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 3:20 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >> > If you do >> > >> > (File named: '/tmp/lines.txt') readStream[Do:] >> > >> > you seem to get a binary stream (this is the new implementation I guess), when you go via FileReference you get a character stream (but that are old ones). >> > >> > I know, very confusing. We're always in the midst of transitions. >> > >> >> On 2 Oct 2017, at 15:17, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> Sven I do not see the binary stream. Is it ZnCharacterReadStream? >> >> >> >> Stef >> >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 1:22 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >> >>> >> >>>> On 2 Oct 2017, at 13:07, Dirk Olmes <dirk(a)xanthippe.ping.de> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> Hi, >> >>>> >> >>>> I'm trying to get started with Pharo doing something really simple - at >> >>>> least that's what I thought ... I'm trying to read a text file line by line. >> >>>> >> >>>> If I use File named: '/tmp/linex.txt' readStream nextLine I'll get a >> >>>> debugger telling me that BinaryFileStream does not understand nextLine. >> >>>> >> >>>> Now I've tried my best to find a stream that may be reading plain text >> >>>> lines but to no avail ... >> >>>> >> >>>> Help! >> >>>> >> >>>> -dirk >> >>> >> >>> $ cat > /tmp/lines.txt >> >>> one >> >>> two >> >>> three >> >>> >> >>> (FileLocator temp / 'lines.txt') contents lines. >> >>> >> >>> '/tmp/lines.txt' asFileReference contents lines. >> >>> >> >>> '/tmp/lines.txt' asFileReference readStreamDo: [ :in | >> >>> Array streamContents: [ :out | >> >>> [ in atEnd ] whileFalse: [ out nextPut: in nextLine ] ] ]. >> >>> >> >>> (File named: '/tmp/lines.txt') readStreamDo: [ :in | >> >>> | characterStream | >> >>> characterStream := ZnCharacterReadStream on: in. >> >>> Array streamContents: [ :out | >> >>> [ characterStream atEnd ] whileFalse: [ out nextPut: characterStream nextLine ] ] ]. >> >>> >> >>> They all return #('one' 'two' 'three'). >> >>> >> >>> In the last, more complex example, you first get a binary stream (and a 'line' is a character based concept), so wrapping the binary stream in a character read stream (which does know about lines) solves the problem. >> >>> >> >>> HTH, >> >>> >> >>> Sven >> >> >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Guille Polito >> Research Engineer >> >> Centre de Recherche en Informatique, Signal et Automatique de Lille >> CRIStAL - UMR 9189 >> French National Center for Scientific Research - http://www.cnrs.fr >> >> Web: http://guillep.github.io >> Phone: +33 06 52 70 66 13 > >

Oct. 4, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] 6.1 Stable 64 - Crash when loading repository

by Stephane Ducasse

Hello Julian Thanks for the report. on which OS are you? Stef On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 8:33 PM, JuliÃ¡n Maestri <serpi90(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On a clean image from get.pharo.org/64/ > Attempting to load the following repository > > Metacello new > baseline: 'WillowBootstrap'; > repository: 'github://ba-st/Willow-Bootstrap:master/source'; > load. > > Consistently causes a VM crash (crash.dump in attatchment). > > This does not happen with the 32 bit image. > > Image + VM details > >> Image >> ----- >> /home/jmaestri/Pharo/workspace/Pharo.image >> Pharo6.0 >> Latest update: #60510 >> Unnamed >> Virtual Machine >> --------------- >> /home/jmaestri/Pharo/workspace/pharo-vm/lib/pharo/5.0-201707201942/pharo >> CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.2254 uuid: >> 4f2c2cce-f4a2-469a-93f1-97ed941df0ad Jul 20 2017 >> StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-eem.2252 uuid: >> 2f3e9b0e-ecd3-4adf-b092-cce2e2587a5c Jul 20 2017 >> VM: 201707201942 https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git $ >> Date: Thu Jul 20 12:42:21 2017 -0700 $ Plugins: 201707201942 >> https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git $ >> Unix built on Jul 20 2017 20:40:36 Compiler: 4.6.3 >> VMMaker versionString VM: 201707201942 >> https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git $ Date: Thu Jul 20 >> 12:42:21 2017 -0700 $ Plugins: 201707201942 >> https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git $ >> CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.2254 uuid: >> 4f2c2cce-f4a2-469a-93f1-97ed941df0ad Jul 20 2017 >> StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-eem.2252 uuid: >> 2f3e9b0e-ecd3-4adf-b092-cce2e2587a5c Jul 20 2017 > > > >

Oct. 4, 2017

6.1 Stable 64 - Crash when loading repository

by JuliÃ¡n Maestri

On a clean image from get.pharo.org/64/ Attempting to load the following repository Metacello new baseline: 'WillowBootstrap'; repository: 'github://ba-st/Willow-Bootstrap:master/source'; load. Consistently causes a VM crash (crash.dump in attatchment). This does not happen with the 32 bit image. Image + VM details Image > ----- > /home/jmaestri/Pharo/workspace/Pharo.image > Pharo6.0 > Latest update: #60510 > Unnamed > Virtual Machine > --------------- > /home/jmaestri/Pharo/workspace/pharo-vm/lib/pharo/5.0-201707201942/pharo > CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.2254 uuid: > 4f2c2cce-f4a2-469a-93f1-97ed941df0ad Jul 20 2017 > StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-eem.2252 uuid: > 2f3e9b0e-ecd3-4adf-b092-cce2e2587a5c Jul 20 2017 > VM: 201707201942 https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git $ > Date: Thu Jul 20 12:42:21 2017 -0700 $ Plugins: 201707201942 > https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git $ > Unix built on Jul 20 2017 20:40:36 Compiler: 4.6.3 > VMMaker versionString VM: 201707201942 > https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git $ Date: Thu Jul 20 > 12:42:21 2017 -0700 $ Plugins: 201707201942 > https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git $ > CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.2254 uuid: > 4f2c2cce-f4a2-469a-93f1-97ed941df0ad Jul 20 2017 > StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-eem.2252 uuid: > 2f3e9b0e-ecd3-4adf-b092-cce2e2587a5c Jul 20 2017

Oct. 4, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Reading a text file line by line

by Cyril Ferlicot D.

Le 04/10/2017 Ã 16:31, Sven Van Caekenberghe a Ã©critÂ : > Dirk, > > > One day we will have package level comments that will make clear the scope and purpose of groups of code. > Hi, Package level comments are possible since Pharo 6. In Nautilus just open the comment pane while selecting a package. But that's another subject. Sorry for the parenthesis. > Anyway, thanks for the feedback. > > Sven > > -- Cyril Ferlicot https://ferlicot.fr http://www.synectique.eu 2 rue Jacques PrÃ©vert 01, 59650 Villeneuve d'ascq France

Oct. 4, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

by Denis Kudriashov

Hi 2017-10-04 12:30 GMT+02:00 horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com>: > Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk > <https://medium.com/smalltalk-talk/behold-pharo-the-modern- > smalltalk-38e132c46053> > > If you would like to suggest some edits, I'm all ears. Anything to improve the impact of the article. > As you mentioned IoT part it would be nice to add link to PharoThings project https://github.com/pharo-iot/PharoThings. > Thanks. > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > >

Oct. 4, 2017