October 2017 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Your contribution to Pharo are much appreciated. And indeed you did not directly say anything negative. But you have to agree that you often discuss about Python, C++, Blender, ... in mailing lists that are not for that purpose. You are absolutely free to do whatever you want and to give your opinions freely, but this is not the right place. > On 7 Oct 2017, at 10:42, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I agree, ignore that crazy dude that he is all talk and non sense excluding the fact the original article uses a graphic he made with love for Pharo and with over 5 years of active contribution to Pharo documentation and libraries. OR the fact that he said nothing negative about Pharo in this thread. > > Or the fact that he said that is enternal greatful for Pharo introducing him to the art and fun of live coding. What's more negative than that , right ? > > On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 11:14 AM Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi sven > > Do the same than me, trash this thread and let us focus on making Pharo better. > This is far better productive and energy positive. > > Stef > > On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 12:16 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > Yes, you are right: Pharo/Smalltalk is more or less the same as Ruby/Python/C/C++ in terms of power & flexibility of OOP and in live coding. > > > > Come on. > > > >> On 6 Oct 2017, at 23:18, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> Wise not to mention Ruby and Python and Pick the worst of the worst in OOP. Because frankly the competition for Pharo against those two behemoths can be quite brutal in the flexibility and power of OOP. > >> > >> And no , these language can do live coding with ease. I know because I currently code live coding style with Python for an app I am making. Sure it wont provide you with a live system out of the box, but put in 10 lines of code and you already ready to go with hardcore live coding. At least Python , Ruby being practically a rip off of Smalltalk language may need even less. > >> > >> iPython which by the way is by far the most popular Python tool is the real deal, a full blow live coding enviroment. > >> > >> To my suprise its not even hard to do live coding with C/C++ including using image format. To my shock live coding is actually supported by both the OS and the hardware. Hardware has its own exception system , OS has an image flie format called "memory mapped files" used for DLLs and a lot of essential functionality. > >> > >> For some weird reason however its well hidden and not that much utilised by coders. They really love long compile times, dont ask me why. > >> > >> But yeah C++ even though it has come a long way with its template system, its still the king of ugly. That sytax, oh the horrors of that syntax..... yiaks !!! > >> > >> I am so enternal greatful that Pharo introduced me to live coding and opened my eyes to universe of fun and productivity. I cannot imagine coding an other way ever again. > >> > >> I really hope that we take this further though. > >> > >> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 1:31 PM horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk > >> <https://medium.com/smalltalk-talk/behold-pharo-the-modern-smalltalk-38e132c…> > >> > >> If you would like to suggest some edits, I'm all ears. Anything to improve > >> the impact of the article. > >> > >> Thanks. > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > >> > > > > >

Oct. 7, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

by Dimitris Chloupis

I agree, ignore that crazy dude that he is all talk and non sense excluding the fact the original article uses a graphic he made with love for Pharo and with over 5 years of active contribution to Pharo documentation and libraries. OR the fact that he said nothing negative about Pharo in this thread. Or the fact that he said that is enternal greatful for Pharo introducing him to the art and fun of live coding. What's more negative than that , right ? On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 11:14 AM Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi sven > > Do the same than me, trash this thread and let us focus on making Pharo > better. > This is far better productive and energy positive. > > Stef > > On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 12:16 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> > wrote: > > Yes, you are right: Pharo/Smalltalk is more or less the same as > Ruby/Python/C/C++ in terms of power & flexibility of OOP and in live coding. > > > > Come on. > > > >> On 6 Oct 2017, at 23:18, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > >> Wise not to mention Ruby and Python and Pick the worst of the worst in > OOP. Because frankly the competition for Pharo against those two behemoths > can be quite brutal in the flexibility and power of OOP. > >> > >> And no , these language can do live coding with ease. I know because I > currently code live coding style with Python for an app I am making. Sure > it wont provide you with a live system out of the box, but put in 10 lines > of code and you already ready to go with hardcore live coding. At least > Python , Ruby being practically a rip off of Smalltalk language may need > even less. > >> > >> iPython which by the way is by far the most popular Python tool is the > real deal, a full blow live coding enviroment. > >> > >> To my suprise its not even hard to do live coding with C/C++ including > using image format. To my shock live coding is actually supported by both > the OS and the hardware. Hardware has its own exception system , OS has an > image flie format called "memory mapped files" used for DLLs and a lot of > essential functionality. > >> > >> For some weird reason however its well hidden and not that much > utilised by coders. They really love long compile times, dont ask me why. > >> > >> But yeah C++ even though it has come a long way with its template > system, its still the king of ugly. That sytax, oh the horrors of that > syntax..... yiaks !!! > >> > >> I am so enternal greatful that Pharo introduced me to live coding and > opened my eyes to universe of fun and productivity. I cannot imagine coding > an other way ever again. > >> > >> I really hope that we take this further though. > >> > >> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 1:31 PM horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk > >> < > https://medium.com/smalltalk-talk/behold-pharo-the-modern-smalltalk-38e132c… > > > >> > >> If you would like to suggest some edits, I'm all ears. Anything to > improve > >> the impact of the article. > >> > >> Thanks. > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > >> > > > > > >

Oct. 7, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 7 Oct 2017, at 10:15, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> To be honest, I didn't know you could do live coding in Python, Ruby, C/C++. >> I had only ever heard of "hot swapping" in Java. > > Me neither :) > Do not worry and let us continue to work on making Pharo better. > I did not know that a.out and core.dmp where live programming :) With gdb and assembler you can do live coding & OOP too ;-) > Stef > >> At any rate, I'd be surprised if live coding in these languages was as easy >> and convenient as in Pharo/Smalltalk. > > Me too but they are catching up so let us continue to make Pharo super cool. >

Oct. 7, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

by Stephane Ducasse

> To be honest, I didn't know you could do live coding in Python, Ruby, C/C++. > I had only ever heard of "hot swapping" in Java. Me neither :) Do not worry and let us continue to work on making Pharo better. I did not know that a.out and core.dmp where live programming :) Stef > At any rate, I'd be surprised if live coding in these languages was as easy > and convenient as in Pharo/Smalltalk. Me too but they are catching up so let us continue to make Pharo super cool.

Oct. 7, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

by Stephane Ducasse

Hi sven Do the same than me, trash this thread and let us focus on making Pharo better. This is far better productive and energy positive. Stef On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 12:16 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > Yes, you are right: Pharo/Smalltalk is more or less the same as Ruby/Python/C/C++ in terms of power & flexibility of OOP and in live coding. > > Come on. > >> On 6 Oct 2017, at 23:18, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Wise not to mention Ruby and Python and Pick the worst of the worst in OOP. Because frankly the competition for Pharo against those two behemoths can be quite brutal in the flexibility and power of OOP. >> >> And no , these language can do live coding with ease. I know because I currently code live coding style with Python for an app I am making. Sure it wont provide you with a live system out of the box, but put in 10 lines of code and you already ready to go with hardcore live coding. At least Python , Ruby being practically a rip off of Smalltalk language may need even less. >> >> iPython which by the way is by far the most popular Python tool is the real deal, a full blow live coding enviroment. >> >> To my suprise its not even hard to do live coding with C/C++ including using image format. To my shock live coding is actually supported by both the OS and the hardware. Hardware has its own exception system , OS has an image flie format called "memory mapped files" used for DLLs and a lot of essential functionality. >> >> For some weird reason however its well hidden and not that much utilised by coders. They really love long compile times, dont ask me why. >> >> But yeah C++ even though it has come a long way with its template system, its still the king of ugly. That sytax, oh the horrors of that syntax..... yiaks !!! >> >> I am so enternal greatful that Pharo introduced me to live coding and opened my eyes to universe of fun and productivity. I cannot imagine coding an other way ever again. >> >> I really hope that we take this further though. >> >> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 1:31 PM horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk >> <https://medium.com/smalltalk-talk/behold-pharo-the-modern-smalltalk-38e132c…> >> >> If you would like to suggest some edits, I'm all ears. Anything to improve >> the impact of the article. >> >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >> > >

Oct. 7, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] [Ann] PharoLauncher v1.0.1 released!

by Stephane Ducasse

+ 1000 :) On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 9:44 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > 2017-10-07 9:38 GMT+02:00 Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com>: >> >> Just starting pharolauncher on windows still does not work (if you put it >> into the default "program" folder). >> On start, it tries to create a local direcitory "pharo-local" and does not >> have the permission to do so. >> You need to start it with admin-rights. > > > > Starting images for different vms works great. > No more need to manually fight with downloading vms or source files :) > Great! > >> >> >> 2017-10-06 22:43 GMT+02:00 Gabriel Cotelli <g.cotelli(a)gmail.com>: >>> >>> I've tried running it from the terminal and it works!. >>> >>> If I double-click it from the file manager and choose "Run in Terminal" >>> it gives the previously commented error. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 5:35 PM, Christophe Demarey >>> <christophe.demarey(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Gabriel, >>>> >>>> Le 6 oct. 2017 Ã 15:48, Gabriel Cotelli <g.cotelli(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : >>>> >>>> I've tried it on Linux, and after the download has finished it cannot >>>> launch a Pharo 6.1 image. Find attached the PharoDebug.log >>>> >>>> Seems it's searching for the sources file in a wrong location. >>>> Pharo cannot locate the sources file named >>>> /home/gcotelli/Pharo/pharo-launcher/bin/lib/pharo/5.0-201707201942/PharoV60.sources. >>>> >>>> >>>> Strange indeed! >>>> Iâm not able to reproduce it on my ubuntu vm. >>>> >>>> Itâs surprising that sources file is search in the folder of the VM >>>> shipped with the launcher. Images are run with VM downloaded in the VM store >>>> ($HOME/Pharo/vms) and sources file is search in the vm directory. >>>> Could you tell me if you run the launcher from a terminal? Could you >>>> send me your environment variables to see if I can find something relevant >>>> there? >>> >>> >> >

Oct. 7, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] [Ann] PharoLauncher v1.0.1 released!

by Nicolai Hess

2017-10-07 9:38 GMT+02:00 Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com>: > Just starting pharolauncher on windows still does not work (if you put it > into the default "program" folder). > On start, it tries to create a local direcitory "pharo-local" and does not > have the permission to do so. > You need to start it with admin-rights. > Starting images for different vms works great. No more need to manually fight with downloading vms or source files :) Great! > > 2017-10-06 22:43 GMT+02:00 Gabriel Cotelli <g.cotelli(a)gmail.com>: > >> I've tried running it from the terminal and it works!. >> >> If I double-click it from the file manager and choose "Run in Terminal" >> it gives the previously commented error. >> >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 5:35 PM, Christophe Demarey < >> christophe.demarey(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> >>> Hi Gabriel, >>> >>> Le 6 oct. 2017 Ã 15:48, Gabriel Cotelli <g.cotelli(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : >>> >>> I've tried it on Linux, and after the download has finished it cannot >>> launch a Pharo 6.1 image. Find attached the PharoDebug.log >>> >>> Seems it's searching for the sources file in a wrong location. >>> *Pharo cannot locate the sources file named >>> /home/gcotelli/Pharo/pharo-launcher/bin/lib/pharo/5.0-201707201942/PharoV60.sources.* >>> >>> >>> Strange indeed! >>> Iâm not able to reproduce it on my ubuntu vm. >>> >>> Itâs surprising that sources file is search in the folder of the VM >>> shipped with the launcher. Images are run with VM downloaded in the VM >>> store ($HOME/Pharo/vms) and sources file is search in the vm directory. >>> Could you tell me if you run the launcher from a terminal? Could you >>> send me your environment variables to see if I can find something relevant >>> there? >>> >> >> >

Oct. 7, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] [Ann] PharoLauncher v1.0.1 released!

by Nicolai Hess

Just starting pharolauncher on windows still does not work (if you put it into the default "program" folder). On start, it tries to create a local direcitory "pharo-local" and does not have the permission to do so. You need to start it with admin-rights. 2017-10-06 22:43 GMT+02:00 Gabriel Cotelli <g.cotelli(a)gmail.com>: > I've tried running it from the terminal and it works!. > > If I double-click it from the file manager and choose "Run in Terminal" it > gives the previously commented error. > > > > On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 5:35 PM, Christophe Demarey < > christophe.demarey(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >> Hi Gabriel, >> >> Le 6 oct. 2017 Ã 15:48, Gabriel Cotelli <g.cotelli(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : >> >> I've tried it on Linux, and after the download has finished it cannot >> launch a Pharo 6.1 image. Find attached the PharoDebug.log >> >> Seems it's searching for the sources file in a wrong location. >> *Pharo cannot locate the sources file named >> /home/gcotelli/Pharo/pharo-launcher/bin/lib/pharo/5.0-201707201942/PharoV60.sources.* >> >> >> Strange indeed! >> Iâm not able to reproduce it on my ubuntu vm. >> >> Itâs surprising that sources file is search in the folder of the VM >> shipped with the launcher. Images are run with VM downloaded in the VM >> store ($HOME/Pharo/vms) and sources file is search in the vm directory. >> Could you tell me if you run the launcher from a terminal? Could you send >> me your environment variables to see if I can find something relevant there? >> > >

Oct. 7, 2017

using mocketry to mock subcall

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

Hi, maybe I am missing something fundamental, because this seems like an obvious scenario I have a class Something with two methods Something>>askForName ^ UIManager default request: 'Name' Something>>name ^ self askForName , ' suffix' Now I want to mock out askForName, so I can run it automatically in tests... I've tried just stubbing it... SomethingTest>>testRenameStub Something stub askForName willReturn: 'new'. Something new name should be: 'new suffix' however it still opens the window to ask for the name, so the original method is being called. Right now I have to stub it with metalinks, which doesn't play well with some tools (hapao) SomethingTest>>testRenameMeta | link newName | link := MetaLink new metaObject: [ 'new' ]; control: #instead. (Something >> #askForName) ast link: link. [ newName := Something new name ] ensure: [ link uninstall ]. self assert: newName equals: 'new suffix' Thanks, Peter

Oct. 7, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

by Dimitris Chloupis

Again very generic statements , and I see you refer to tools and libraries instead of OOP. We talking here Pharo vs Python on the language level because Python obviously does not come with an IDE. But then Pharo does not come with literate programming tools or libraries as well. I rather not go down the rabbit hole of third party libraries because obviously I cannot participate in a discussion about libraries and areas of coding, I know nothing about. Plus Python has countless of libraries which makes a very longer discussion even if I was familiar with them and Pharo has much less but still quite a lot of libraries as well. On Sat, 7 Oct 2017 at 04:46, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas < offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> wrote: > Hi, > > > On 06/10/17 20:41, Dimitris Chloupis wrote: > > I am no expert in OOP but I cannot say I have found a thing that Pharo > > can do that Python canât or is more difficult. Python obviously is > > very heavily inspired by Smalltalk . > > I can find one: creating an environment for reproducible research and > literate computing (interactive documentation). It can be done on both, > but is harder and a lot more complicated in Python that in Pharo, as > experience have shown [1] > > [1] > > http://mutabit.com/offray/static/blog/output/posts/grafoscopio-idea-and-ini… > > Cheers, > > Offray > >

Oct. 7, 2017