October 2017 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] What is code 137 / how to gracefully shut down via SIGTERM?

by Herby VojÄÃk

Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > Hi, > > I donât know if is useful in your case, but you made me remember I made > a small tool to trap unix signals within Pharo. I uploaded then to github. > > https://github.com/estebanlm/pharo-posix-signal > > is very easy to use and it will allow you to trap any signal and do what > you want ;) Thanks, looks that it'll help. > Esteban > > >> On 28 Oct 2017, at 13:39, Herby VojÄÃk <herby(a)mailbox.sk >> <mailto:herby@mailbox.sk>> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> I had to find out how to automatically deploy the backend written in >> Pharo, and so far it uses docker-compose stop to stop the instance >> (and later docker-compose up -d to get everything up again). >> >> I noticed the stop phase takes a while and ends with status code 137. >> I presume it ended forcefully and not gracefully. >> >> What is the idiomatic way to wait on SIGTERM and close the process >> gracefully? >> >> Thanks, Herby >> >

Oct. 29, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] QCMagritte on Github

by Diego Lont

Hi, It was somewhere on my todo list to migrate to Github, but not very highâ¦ but I guess if someone else does this for me, I should be happy about this. So thank you, I will look up my gut hub account and also change the job. I hope to do this somewhere next week. I know there a different configurations for different versions of pharo, so did you import only one version, or should there be made branches for the different pharo version? Regards, Diego > On 27 Oct 2017, at 16:50, laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I've added loading instructions in README: > > Metacello new > githubUser: 'Afibre' project: 'QCMagritte' commitish: 'master' path: 'src'; > baseline: 'QCMagritte'; > load. > > > For the QCMagritte version, there's actually one branch master. If you > need a previous version, I suppose the right way is to create a github > branch from the desired commit in git history and adapt the > BaselineOf... > > Laurent > > On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 2:12 PM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand > <hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Nice to know Laurent, >> >> Could you please comment or share how to install this version uploaded >> to GitHub? >> Any way to check the installed or current QCMagritte version? >> >> Cheers, >> >> HernÃ¡n >> >> >> >> >> 2017-10-27 7:39 GMT-03:00 laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com>: >>> Hi, >>> >>> my team starts to use QCMagritte. For our needs we have imported >>> SmalltalkHub repository to Github here: >>> https://github.com/Afibre/QCMagritte >>> >>> I don't know if you (Diego, Stephan, Tobias) plan to use Github >>> instead of SmalltalkHub. At least Github allows branches & pull >>> request. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Laurent Laffont >>> >> >

Oct. 29, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] What is code 137 / how to gracefully shut down via SIGTERM?

by werner kassens

Hi Herby, eventually you might want to look at https://github.com/moby/moby/issues/1063 but then i dont know anything about these things. werner On 10/28/2017 01:39 PM, Herby VojÄÃk wrote: > Hi, > > I had to find out how to automatically deploy the backend written in > Pharo, and so far it uses docker-compose stop to stop the instance > (and later docker-compose up -d to get everything up again). > > I noticed the stop phase takes a while and ends with status code 137. > I presume it ended forcefully and not gracefully. > > What is the idiomatic way to wait on SIGTERM and close the process > gracefully? > > Thanks, Herby > >

Oct. 29, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] What is code 137 / how to gracefully shut down via SIGTERM?

by Esteban Lorenzano

Hi, I donât know if is useful in your case, but you made me remember I made a small tool to trap unix signals within Pharo. I uploaded then to github. https://github.com/estebanlm/pharo-posix-signal <https://github.com/estebanlm/pharo-posix-signal> is very easy to use and it will allow you to trap any signal and do what you want ;) Esteban > On 28 Oct 2017, at 13:39, Herby VojÄÃk <herby(a)mailbox.sk> wrote: > > Hi, > > I had to find out how to automatically deploy the backend written in Pharo, and so far it uses docker-compose stop to stop the instance (and later docker-compose up -d to get everything up again). > > I noticed the stop phase takes a while and ends with status code 137. I presume it ended forcefully and not gracefully. > > What is the idiomatic way to wait on SIGTERM and close the process gracefully? > > Thanks, Herby >

Oct. 29, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] [ANNOUNCE] ParrotTalk release/design change considerations

by henry

Yes well it is an extension to what you found as I combined with eventual references such that it computes in a single thread. - HH On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 23:59, Ben Coman <[btc(a)openinworld.com]("mailto:btc@openinworld.com")> wrote: > On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 12:00 AM, henry <[henry(a)callistohouse.club]("mailto:henry@callistohouse.club")> wrote: > >> I disabled vatId authorization in version 3, located in SessionOperations>> processIWant | SessionOperations>>processIAm: . >> >> I was asked to disseminate my news to Pharo Users, hello there. I was asked to describe ParrotTalk well, provide use cases and adopters of its use. Alright, I will give an attempt. >> >> ParrotTalk is an encrypted connection framework. Currently allowing anonymous 2048-bit key negotiation to establish user-provided encryption cipher and user-provided encoding and decoding, both through a provided SessionAgentMap to a starting SessionAgent server. Please look in the test case ThunkHelloWorldTest for building these maps and running a connection iwth data passing after encryption is established. There is a 4-way negotiation, from ProtocolOffered/Accepted to Go/GoToo. In using RSA 2048 signature validation and DH 2048 primes to establish the key used within the selected Cipher. The Cipher and Encoder are selected by name through the negotiation protocol. Currently three Ciphers are selectable, AESede, DESede, and DES. There are two encoders tested, asn1der, and Bytes. This protocol is described here, in this document. >> >> [https://github.com/ZiroZimbarra/callistohouse/blob/master/docs/ParrotTalkFr…"https://github.com/ZiroZimbarra/callistohouse/blob/master/docs/ParrotTalkFr…") >> >> For as to use cases, this encrypted connection has no third party, man-in-the-middle situation by not using Certificates. As such, this is a tight implementation of NSA-proof encryption without explicit authorization beyond knowledge of a host:port. The use cases involve any communication desired to be encrypted with such high encryption. The support will last my lifetime, so we have a settled solution, here in the third version, provided here. It requires version 111 of Cryptography, as a prerequisite. Both run on Squeak and Pharo. >> >> [http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography/Cryptography-zzz.111.mcz]("http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography/Cryptography-zzz.111.mcz") >> [http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography/ParrotTalk-HenryHouse.3.mcz]("http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography/ParrotTalk-HenryHouse.3.mcz") >> >> The current use is with my hubbub system, a promise-based distributed object implementation. I am working to bring ParrotTalk to Java and allow hubbub to operate interdependently between Squeak, Pharo, Java and any other languages which can support ParrotTalk and STON. My latest efforts with hubbub are to bring STON as the Layer 6 encoding. Hubbub depends on eLinda. > > Took me a while to track down what eLinda was. I presume its an implementation of Linda "a model of coordination and communication among several parallel processes operating upon objects stored in and retrieved from shared, virtual, associative memory" > [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_(coordination_language)]("https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_(coordination_language)") > [http://www.cs.yale.edu/publications/techreports/tr984.pdf]("http://www.cs.yale.edu/publications/techreports/tr984.pdf") > > cheers -ben

Oct. 29, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] [ANNOUNCE] ParrotTalk release/design change considerations

by Ben Coman

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 12:00 AM, henry <henry(a)callistohouse.club> wrote: > I disabled vatId authorization in version 3, located in SessionOperations>>processIWant > | SessionOperations>>processIAm:. > > I was asked to disseminate my news to Pharo Users, hello there. I was > asked to describe ParrotTalk well, provide use cases and adopters of its > use. Alright, I will give an attempt. > > ParrotTalk is an encrypted connection framework. Currently allowing > anonymous 2048-bit key negotiation to establish user-provided encryption > cipher and user-provided encoding and decoding, both through a provided > SessionAgentMap to a starting SessionAgent server. Please look in the test > case ThunkHelloWorldTest for building these maps and running a connection > iwth data passing after encryption is established. There is a 4-way > negotiation, from ProtocolOffered/Accepted to Go/GoToo. In using RSA 2048 > signature validation and DH 2048 primes to establish the key used within > the selected Cipher. The Cipher and Encoder are selected by name through > the negotiation protocol. Currently three Ciphers are selectable, AESede, > DESede, and DES. There are two encoders tested, asn1der, and Bytes. This > protocol is described here, in this document. > > https://github.com/ZiroZimbarra/callistohouse/blob/master/docs/ > ParrotTalkFrameDesign-3.5.pdf > > For as to use cases, this encrypted connection has no third party, > man-in-the-middle situation by not using Certificates. As such, this is a > tight implementation of NSA-proof encryption without explicit authorization > beyond knowledge of a host:port. The use cases involve any communication > desired to be encrypted with such high encryption. The support will last my > lifetime, so we have a settled solution, here in the third version, > provided here. It requires version 111 of Cryptography, as a prerequisite. > Both run on Squeak and Pharo. > > http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography/Cryptography-zzz.111.mcz > http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography/ParrotTalk-HenryHouse.3.mcz > > The current use is with my hubbub system, a promise-based distributed > object implementation. I am working to bring ParrotTalk to Java and allow > hubbub to operate interdependently between Squeak, Pharo, Java and any > other languages which can support ParrotTalk and STON. My latest efforts > with hubbub are to bring STON as the Layer 6 encoding. Hubbub depends on > eLinda. > Took me a while to track down what eLinda was. I presume its an implementation of Linda "a model of coordination and communication among several parallel processes operating upon objects stored in and retrieved from shared, virtual, associative memory" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_(coordination_language) http://www.cs.yale.edu/publications/techreports/tr984.pdf cheers -ben

Oct. 29, 2017

[ANN] OpenSSL wrapper

by Pierce Ng

Hi all, I've put up the _beginnings_ of a wrapper for OpenSSL on STH: Metacello new baseline: 'OpenSSL'; smalltalkhubUser: 'PierceNg' project: 'OpenSSL-Pharo'; load. Verified on Pharo 6 32- and 64-bit. My near term goal is to wrap enough libcrypto functionality to implement the client-side of Let's Encrypt. I meant to put it up on GH, for the ease of forking and PRs, but I couldn't get Iceberg to work, and gitfiletree also failed to load, so STH it is. Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯ Collaboration welcome. Pierce

Oct. 29, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Actual Code to Improve the Pharo environment

by henry

Here is a diagram of the various components I am working on integrating,. [hubbub.jpg] - HH > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Actual Code to Improve the Pharo environment > Local Time: October 28, 2017 1:23 PM > UTC Time: October 28, 2017 5:23 PM > From: henry(a)callistohouse.club > To: Andrew Glynn <aglynn42(a)gmail.com>, Any question about pharo iswelcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> > > I used to use JINI, a fine system. I didnât know it had been rereleased as Apache River, Iâve been out of it awhile. This was the broker system that got me interested in Linda. Now I have an eventual Linda project called eLinda, which you can find in the Cryptography repository, no prerequisites needed. > > - HH > > On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 11:25, Andrew Glynn <aglynn42(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Iâm not working on that specifically, although what I am working on could definitely use that and vice versa, which would increase the capabilities of each. >> >> One thing Iâm working on is using Vert.x for service registration and discovery, mapped to Apache River (JINI) to propagate that over non-local network segments that require fully authenticated security (as a result, it also provides things such as Kerberos to Pharo apps). The mapping between the two is very straightforward, almost direct, but Iâve added the Synapse micro service bus to control data flows and secure access to remote services. >> >> It enables things like automatic configuration/integration of Pharo based mobile apps with newer cars that support that kind of autoconfiguration, since they all use JINI to do so. Thus a Pharo mobile or IoT app can automatically be configured to work with any of the carâs subsystems that are relevant to it. >> >> JINI is far more used than people realize, partly because it âjust worksâ and as a result doesnât get the public âsqueaky wheelâ effect. The fact that the authors of Vert.x reimplemented half of the features of JINI, in a less comprehensive and less reliable way, rather than just using it (especially considering itâs open source) shows the degree to which that effect is operative. >> >> Thereâs probably a couple dozen other general use cases where the integration will allow Pharo apps to âjust workâ in a JINI or Vert.x environment, as well as thousands of industry/company specific ones. Iâd have to mode-switch to think of them off the top of my head though ð. >> >> Andrew >> >> Sent from [Mail](https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986) for Windows 10 >> >> From: [henry](mailto:henry@callistohouse.club) >> Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2017 10:02 AM >> To: [Any question about pharo is welcome](mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org) >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Actual Code to Improve the Pharo environment >> >> Hi Andrew, >> >> Are you working to bring a Capabilities model to Pharo? This is precisely what I am working to bring with Hubbub, running on top of my ParrotTalk. I derived these from erights.org's ELib and have been working on them for many years. Now that ParrotTalk has stabilized (layer 5) I am shifting to implementing marshalling of layer 6 objects using STON all to run on top of ParrotTalk. Once I get marshalling with scope substitutions, I will debug Hubbub to offer distributed Capabilities. >> >> What work are you undertaking? >> >> Regards, >> >> - HH >> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> >>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Actual Code to Improve the Pharo environment >>> >>> Local Time: October 28, 2017 9:12 AM >>> >>> UTC Time: October 28, 2017 1:12 PM >>> >>> From: aglynn42(a)gmail.com >>> >>> To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> >>> >>> Writing that kind of code is another of the reasons I decided I donât want to work in anything else ð. Maybe more important than some of the others, both to myself and to other users. >>> >>> Iâve gained so much personally, mostly for nothing, even just considering the relatively few projects I have been able to work on in Pharo and previously in Squeak, VW and VA. Unfortunately in most I havenât been able to make the code public, since they were for entities like the government, DoD, etc. >>> >>> Not that VA attracts me quite so much to give back all that strongly, when a license is $8500+. Were it possible to give back to VA C++ or VA Java, it might be different, but neither were OSS although they werenât expensive. More relevantly, both are now abandonware (hence my comment about IBM, which is applicable to OS/2 as well, although that has quietly had a 5.0 version released in June of this year). >>> >>> I would, though, love a chance to give back to Pharo primarily, although I may port anything relevant to Squeak, and if I have sufficient time port it to VW, which although not OSS is at least affordable to most developers. >>> >>> Iâm nearly there on a couple of projects â one Iâm testing and making final tweaks, another is about 2/3dâs of the way. >>> >>> The first project you (and others on the list) may be more immediately interested in testing, since it requires little to no additional work to use it, and even if not perfect, since itâs intended to directly help work you are doing in Pharo, it may worthwhile. Iâm hoping to have it ready for public consumption by the middle of November. >>> >>> On a different but related topic, the article I wrote got a fair amount of interest considering I donât write nearly as well as Kenneth, for example. Including direct interest from some well known industry people, which canât hurt. In an indirect way it may even be helpful, but not in the real, direct way decent code is. >>> >>> Capabilities that wonât be available in anything else in an really usable way (because to be efficient they depend on capabilities not found in anything else), and in any case nowhere near as useful in anything else, will hopefully be more use than any article can be, never mind one I wrote, not just to me but also to other Pharo users and to Pharo itself. >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Andrew Glynn >>> >>> Sent from [Mail](https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986) for Windows 10 >>> >>> From: [Stephane Ducasse](mailto:stepharo.self@gmail.com) >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2017 5:09 AM >>> >>> To: [Any question about pharo is welcome](mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org) >>> >>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument >>> >>> Hi andrew >>> >>> please take a project that would help to bring more companies and that you want to push and push it with us :). >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 11:05 AM, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi andrew >>>> >>>> you should contact esteban because he is writing an objective-C bridge. >>>> >>>> Stef >>>> >>>> On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 2:30 AM, Andrew Glynn <aglynn42(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> One thing Iâm working on is a bridge between Pharo and F-Script. F-Script is, basically, a Smalltalk dialect, as is obvious from the screenshot. However for MacOS and iOS, it allows you to bypass the static Objective-C API interface and debug / modify or even write applications directly in the system. To do that you âinjectâ F-Script into the OS. The ability to so has a specific implication, though. MacOS and iOS are themselves written in and as a dialect of Smalltalk. (were it simply an overlay on Objective-C, it wouldnât be able to do things that are impossible in Objective-C, and it wouldnât need to be âinjectedâ in order to run). Every implementation of Objective-C , bar GNUâs useless imitation, compiles to Smalltalk. No surprise that Appleâs does, as well. >>>>> >>>>> In any event, it will allow Pharo code to be mapped to MacOS and iOS objects, injected into the system dynamically, and modified / debugged dynamically using the Pharo tools. The result, at least as far as iOS is concerned, may make Pharo actually the most powerful way to program it, well beyond XCode alone, along with doing the same for MacOS. Android is another issue, although the Raspbian port of Pharo should be relatively easy to port to it. For me, unless someone had a use case, I donât have one myself for Android. Iâve tried nearly every version, because Iâd love to support an OSS ecosystem, unfortunately using it compared to the iPhone is still like driving a Fiero based kit car compared to an actual Ferrari. >>>>> >>>>> As far as JNI, while I see your point, JNI is such a PITA that few Java developers know it. My usual workaround is to use Stamp and Synapse, which has the further advantage of allowing Java to âthrottleâ data that the JVM canât deal with at full speed. >>>>> >>>>> As far as dealing with other JVM languages, PetitParser or SmaCC can generate bytecode rather than Java or other JVM code, and that allows libs to be written that utilize Synapse to talk to Pharo. It isnât necessarily an ideal solution, but a possible one without having to support umpteen environments. Another potential way of accomplishing that is to use NetRexx, a declarative JVM language, which is both easy and terse, and like SQL, generates the actual bytecode rather than precompiling to it. For instance, imagine the code needed for a simple âhello worldâ in Java, then compare: >>>>> >>>>> Say âhello worldâ >>>>> >>>>> Since it generates virtually the same bytecode, it may be an easy way to do it. >>>>> >>>>> With the last statement, that expresses really well the exact reason I no longer want to work in most other environments ð. >>>>> >>>>> Tc >>>>> >>>>> Andrew >>>>> >>>>> Sent from [Mail](https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986) for Windows 10 >>>>> >>>>> From: phil(a)highoctane.be >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 2:19 AM >>>>> >>>>> To: [Any question about pharo is welcome](mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org) >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument >>>>> >>>>> I like that piece a lot, seeing exactly the described situation in large enterprises. >>>>> >>>>> I made a strategic decision to go with Pharo for the long run for my solutions because it is a stable base on which to build (ok, there are evolutions, but fundamentally, I can rely on it being under control and can maintain solutions in a version). >>>>> >>>>> The rationale is that at a deep level I am really fed up with having to deal with accidental complexity (now having to deal with Spark/Scala/sbt/Java/maven stuff) that makes the dev focus 80% technology drag and 20% net business contribution. >>>>> >>>>> One key thing is that a team needs guidance and Smalltalk makes it easier due to well known ways of doing things. >>>>> >>>>> Now we miss the boat on mobile and bigdata, but this is solvable. >>>>> >>>>> If we had an open Java bridge (and some people in the community have it for Pharo but do not open source it - so this is eminently doable) + Pharo as an embeddable piece (e.g. like Tcl and Lua) and not a big executable we would have a way to embed Pharo in a lot of places (e.g. in the Hadoop ecosystem where fast starting VMs and small footprint would make the cluster capacity x2 or x3 vs uberjars all over the place) this would be a real disruption. >>>>> >>>>> Think about being able to call Pharo from JNA https://github.com/java-native-access/jna the same way we use C with UFFI. >>>>> >>>>> Smalltalk argument for me is that it makes development bearable (even fun and enjoyable would I say) vs the other stacks. That matters. >>>>> >>>>> Phil >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 12:46 AM, Andrew Glynn <aglynn42(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thereâs other questions that are relevant to me: >>>>>> >>>>>> Do I give a f*** about cool looking web apps? No, I donât use web apps if in any way I can avoid it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Do I give a f*** about mobile apps? No, the screenâs too small to read anything longer than a twit, or anyone with anything worthwhile to say. >>>>>> >>>>>> Do I give a f*** about the number of libraries in other languages? No, because most of them are crap in every language Iâve had to work in, and the base languages are crap so they have to keep changing radically, and libraries and frameworks therefore also have to and never get any better. The few that are worthwhile I can almost always use from Smalltalk without a problem (read, Blender, ACT-R and Synapse, since every other library/framework Iâve used outside Smalltalk has been a waste of time). >>>>>> >>>>>> Do I give a f*** about implementing a complex piece of machine learning software in 22 hours, compared to 3 months for the Java version? Well, actually yes, I do, because that was 3 months of my life down the toilet for something that is too slow to be useful in Java. >>>>>> >>>>>> Any argument depends on your priorities. Iâve written tons of web apps, because I needed to get paid. Iâve written better shitty mobile apps than the average shitty mobile apps. However, Iâm not going to do any of that any longer in crap that never improves, because after 26 years the irritability it produces is more than itâs worth. >>>>>> >>>>>> A few weeks ago, a recruiter that specializes in Smalltalk called me about a job, although they were well aware I live 1500 miles away from the city I lived in when I had worked through them, to see if Iâd be willing to move back there for a job. That sounds like another âthere arenât enough Smalltalk developers", but it wasnât, because the job wasnât writing Smalltalk. It was writing Java. >>>>>> >>>>>> The person hiring, though, wouldnât look at anyone who didnât write Smalltalk, because "people who grew up with Java donât know how to write code". I donât agree with that, Iâve known a (very few) good Java developers. I would say, though, that Iâve known far more incompetent ones than good ones, and I canât think of any incompetent Smalltalk developers off the top of my head. >>>>>> >>>>>> Nor have I ever heard a developer in Smalltalk, or Haskell, or LISP, or even C, complain about how hard maintaining state is or coming up with various hacks to avoid it, which seems to be the main point of every JavaScript based âtechnologyâ. An application is by definition a state-machine, which implies plenty about JS developers on the whole. >>>>>> >>>>>> If youâre a good developer you can write good code in (nearly) anything. My question then is why would you want to write in crap? The better question is why arenât there more good developers in any language? >>>>>> >>>>>> Every project I have been able to do in Smalltalk, though, has had one thing in common, the "shit has to work". Companies do use it, in fact I could name 4 large enterprises Iâve worked for whoâve written their own dialects, and they all use it only when "shit has to work". They know itâs more productive, they also know using it for more things would increase the availability of Smalltalk developers. >>>>>> >>>>>> Why do they not do it? One reason, though it takes a while to recognize it, because management doesnât admit even to themselves why they do it, or not very often. Being inefficient, as long as it doesnât âreallyâ matter, is an advantage to large enterprises because they have resources smaller competitors donât. >>>>>> >>>>>> Why donât their competitors do it? Because they canât see past an hourly rate, whatâs fashionable, or just new, or because their customers canât. Put more generally, average stupidity that isnât corrected by the market. Fashion affects smaller companies more than larger ones, because they canât afford a few customers walking away because they wanted an app in Electron, even if they canât give any relevant reason for wanting it, and even the samples on the Electron site donât work. >>>>>> >>>>>> Enterprises can, and do use Smalltalk when it matters. When it doesnât, itâs to their advantage to promote things that are inefficient, buggy and unreliable. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cost is relevant, but not in the simple way people look at things. A crucial but rarely mentioned perspective on its relevance is that while Java based software runs TV set top boxes, Smalltalk based software runs things like medical equipment, automated defense systems, tanks, etc. Cost becomes largely irrelevant when âshit has to workâ. >>>>>> >>>>>> Productivity is primarily relevant to less talented developers, in an inversely sense, since unproductive environments and attitudes have a leveling tendency in general, and more specifically make accomplishing what the less talented are capable of in any environment sufficiently laborious for them to have a role. Capability in Smalltalk, as implied by the person hiring for the Java role I mentioned, is a fairly decent means of judging whether someone is a so-so developer or a good one. >>>>>> >>>>>> The productivity argument is realistically only relevant in the context of an already higher hourly cost. Given that it is relevant at that point, companies that know Smalltalk is more productive would use it outside things that have to be 100%, if their own productivity were relevant to the same degree that competitorsâ productivity is inversely relevant. >>>>>> >>>>>> All these ways of looking at it are contingent perspectives though. Yes, if the number of libraries is relevant to you, Smalltalk is less attractive, but thatâs only a contingent phenomenon based on the relative popularity of Java and JavaScript, as a result it canât be used as explanatory for that popularity. All the ways of looking at it that are fully determinate are determinate via contingencies of that kind, which for the most part are precisely the other perspectives, including productivity, cost, availability of developers, etc. None of them is in itself anything but a result of the others. >>>>>> >>>>>> If availability of developers is contingent on popularity (and further, popularity contingent on industry attitudes), to use an example already mentioned in Joachimâs post, then his simultaneous posit of library availability is if anything more contingent on the same popularity, so positing it as a cause and not a result, or merely a correlate, of popularity is incoherent. We can go one step further, and demonstrate that even when large enterprises make something that works reliably available, they fail to promote and support it, which destroys the market for reliable tooling by simultaneously owning it while not promoting it, something IBM is particularly good at. But IBM canât (and if they canât, neither can any other company) operate that way without the tacit agreement of the industry. >>>>>> >>>>>> To understand it in a more general way, software development has to be looked at in the context where it occurs, and how itâs determined to a large degree by that context, with a specific difference. That difference is itself implicit in the context, i.e. capitalism, but only purely effective in software development. Itâs a result of virtualization as an implicit goal of capitalism, and the disruptions implicit in the virtual but so far only realized completely in software. In terms of that understanding, the analysis of virtualization and disruption as inherent to capitalism is better accomplished in Kapital than in any more recent work. >>>>>> >>>>>> Or you can simply decide, as Iâve done recently, that working in ways and with tools that prevent doing good work in a reasonable timeframe isnât worthwhile to you, no matter how popular those ways and tools might be, or what the posited reasons are, since at the end popularity is only insofar as it already is. What those tools and methods are depends to a degree on your priorities, but if developers are engineers those priorities canât be completely arbitrary. Engineers are defined by their ability to make things work. >>>>>> >>>>>> Software as virtual is inherently disruptive, and the software industry disrupts itself too often and too easily to build on anything. A further disruption caused by developers, as engineers, refusing to work with crap that doesnât, i.e. insisting on being engineers, while in itself merely an aggravation of the disruptive tendencies, might have an inverse result. >>>>>> >>>>>> Using a stable core of technologies as the basis for a more volatile set of products, in the way nearly every other industry does, is the best means we know of to build things both flexibly and reasonably efficiently. The computer hardware industry is the extreme example of this, while the software industry is the extreme contradiction. >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Pharo-users <pharo-users-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org> on behalf of David Mason <dmason(a)ryerson.ca> >>>>>> Reply-To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> >>>>>> Date: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 11:52 AM >>>>>> To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument >>>>>> >>>>>> PharoJS is working to give you that mobile app/browser app experience. As with others, we're not there yet, but getting there. See http://pharojs.org >>>>>> >>>>>> The 67% loved means that 67% of people using Smalltalk (or perhaps have ever used it) want to continue - so it's presumably a high percentage of a smallish number of people. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 20 October 2017 at 03:23, jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de <jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> First of all: I'd say the question itself is not a question but an excuse. I am not arguing there are enough Smalltalkers or cheap ones. But I think the question is just a way of saying "we don't want to do it for reasons that we ourselves cannot really express". If you are a good developer, learning Smalltalk is easy. If you are a good developer you've heard the sentence "we've taken the goos parts from x,y,z and Smalltalk" at least twice a year. So you most likely would like to learn it anyways. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A shortage of developers doesn't exist. What exists is an unwillingness of companies to get people trained in a technology. If Smalltalk was cool and great in their opinion, they wouldn't care. It's that simple. As a consultant, I've heard that argument so often. Not ferom Startups, but from insurance companies, Banks or Car manufacturers who spend millions on useless, endless meetings and stuff instead of just hiring somebody to teach a couple of developers Smalltalk. It's just a lie: the shortage of Smalltalk developers is not a problem. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And, to be honest: what is it we actually are better in by using Smalltalk? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can we build cool looking web apps in extremely short time? No. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can we build mobile Apps with little effort? No. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Does our Smalltalk ship lots of great libraries for all kinds of things that are not availabel in similar quality in any other language? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Are we lying when we say we are so extremely over-productive as compared to other languages? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I know, all that live debugging stuff and such is great and it is much faster to find & fix a bug in Smalltalk than in any other environment I've used so far. But that is really only true for business code. When I need to connect to things or want to build a modern GUI or a web application with a great look&feel, I am nowhere near productive, because I simply have to build my own stuff or learn how to use other external resources. If I want to build something for a mobile device, I will only hear that somebody somewhere has done it before. No docs, no proof, no ready-made tool for me. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Shortage of developers is not really the problem. If Smalltalk was as cool as we like to make ourselves believe, this problem would be non-existent. If somebody took out their iPad and told an audience: "We did this in Smalltalk in 40% of the time it would have taken in Swift", and if that something was a must-have for people, things would be much easier. But nobody has. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am absolutely over-exaggerating, because I make my living with an SaaS product written in Smalltalk (not Pharo). I have lots of fun with Smalltalk and - as you - am convince that many parts of what we've done so far would've taken much longer or even be impossible in other languages. But the advantage was eaten by our extremely steep learning curve for web technologies and for building something that works almost as well as tools like Angular or jQuery Mobile. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Smalltalk is cool, and the day somebody shows me something like Google's flutter in Smalltalk, I am ready to bet a lot on a bright future for Smalltalk. But until then, I'd say these arguments about productivity are just us trying to make ourselves believe we're still the top of the food chain. We've done that for almost thirty years now and still aren't ready to stop it. But we've been lying to ourselves and still do so. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't think there is a point in discussing about the usefulness of a language using an argument like the number or ready-made developers. That is just an argument they know you can't win. The real question is and should be: what is the benefit of using Smalltalk. Our productivity argument is a lie as soon as we have to build something that uses or runs on technology that has been invented after 1990. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Okay, shoot ;-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Joachim >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel mailto:jtuchel@objektfabrik.de >>>>>>> Fliederweg 1 http://www.objektfabrik.de >>>>>>> D-71640 Ludwigsburg http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com >>>>>>> Telefon: [+49 7141 56 10 86 0](tel:%2B49%207141%2056%2010%2086%200) Fax: [+49 7141 56 10 86 1](tel:%2B49%207141%2056%2010%2086%201)

Oct. 29, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] [ANN] Grafoscopio is now also an indexedpublication

by Offray

Thanks Andrew. I'm glad to know that Grafoscopio has been useful to you and to meet new users. I'll be waiting for your release and to learn from it. Those use cases where the tool itself is changed are really valuable and worthy to me. Cheers, Offray El 28 de octubre de 2017 10:37:01 GMT-05:00, Andrew Glynn <aglynn42(a)gmail.com> escribiÃ³: >Btw, thank you personally. In another project Iâve started to use both >Grafoscopio itself (from a developer perspective) but also >programmatically to improve that project. Hopefully Iâll be able to >release that project soon (i.e. in the next couple of weeks) and youâll >be able to see how Grafoscopio improvise it, but also how it increases >the capabilities of Grafoscopio. > >Andrew Glynn > >Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > >From: Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas >Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2017 11:02 AM >To: pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org >Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] [ANN] Grafoscopio is now also an >indexedpublication > >Thanks Stephan, > >As told many times. This community has been really empowering to >prototype the artifacts for my PhD (which is *not* in software [1]). Is >good to count with such proactive and helpful community. > >[1] http://www.doctoradoendiseno.com/en > >This learning process is just starting. > >Cheers, > >Offray > >On 28/10/17 09:27, Stephane Ducasse wrote: >> well done. >> >> >> On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 12:58 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas >> <offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> I would like to share with you the recent acceptation of Grafoscopio >in the >>> Journal of Open Source Software (JOSS), which makes it also an >indexed >>> publication. More details at: >>> >>> http://joss.theoj.org/papers/10.21105/joss.00251 >>> >>> I would like to thank Serge Stinchwich (from this community) and >Arfon >>> Smith (from JOSS) for reviewing the software and helping me with the >>> publication process. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Offray >>> >>> === >>> >>> About JOSS (http://joss.theoj.org/about) >>> >>> "The Journal of Open Source Software (JOSS) is a developer friendly >journal >>> for research software packages. >>> >>> [...] The Journal of Open Source Software (JOSS) is an academic >journal >>> (ISSN 2475-9066) with a formal peer review process that is designed >to >>> improve the quality of the software submitted. Upon acceptance into >JOSS, a >>> CrossRef DOI is minted and we list your paper on the JOSS website." >>> >>> === >> -- Enviado desde mi dispositivo Android con K-9 Mail. Por favor, disculpa mi brevedad.

Oct. 28, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] [ANN] Iceberg 0.6.2 backported to Pharo 6.1

by Herby VojÄÃk

Thanks. I did not yet try if I can use it for push, but it's great already as I could remove all the workarounds I needed before to work with the local repo. Herby Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > Hi, > > I backported lastest Iceberg version to Pharo 6.1 to allow people to benefit for latest changes. > This version has an important amount of tweak and fixes, but most important is the inclusion of tonel file format (this is default for Pharo 7.0, optional for Pharo 6.1) and introduces a file-per-class format. > The advantages of this format has everything to do with the speed of access (is easier to reconstruct a package like) and the space on disk (methods are usually small but minimum space in disk is usually 4k so we waste a lot of space). Is also a better format for SSD disks. > > To backport Iceberg 0.6.2 I also needed to backport latest version of Metacello, so Pharo 6.1 and Pharo7+ users now also have the latest version of it available :) > > cheers! > Esteban > > > > >

Oct. 28, 2017