October 2017 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] FYI about Pharo MOOC

by Andrew Glynn

Oh good, glad the French version is still there.Â Â I was starting to go through it a couple of weeks ago and plan to continue starting this weekend.Â Â Although my mother tongue is English, at one point I was fluently bilingual (both Quebecois and actual French), and it's a chance to get some of it back while picking up information I've likely missed on less obvious features. I can understand French well enough, but the more I hear it spoken the better.Â Reading/writing don't get rusty as easily. Of course speaking it would be even better, but I don't get many chances to do so in Toronto âº. Andrew -----Original Message----- Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 18:06:17 +0200 Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] FYI about Pharo MOOC To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> Reply-to: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo- users(a)lists.pharo.org> From: Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> The production company told us that it was super strange without our voices. Now you can also have the french + subtitles. On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 2:42 PM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > I played C019SD-W1-S1-EN-V1.mp4and as well as the english voice, in > the > background Ican still hear youroriginal french voice.I'm curious > therea > soning forthis. > cheers -ben > > On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 3:59 AM, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self@gmai > l.com>wrote: > > I'm about to release the en versions.you canfind them unofficially > > on http://www.stephaneducasse.eu/MOOC/ > > Stef > > OnTue, Oct 10, 2017 at 10:10 PM, Gour <gour(a)atmarama.com> wrote: > > > On Tue, > > > 10 Oct 2017 21:31:55 +0200 > > > Stephane Ducasse > > > <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > Hello Stef, > > > > > > > I will ask one guy thursday and let you know. > > > > > > Thanks a > > > lot! > > > > > > > We will release Mooc with english voices (not mine else english > > > > nati > > > > ves would get an heart attack - I have what they call a sexy > > > > french > > > > accents ;) > > > > > > I did watch few of your Pharo-related presentations and, > > > although not > > > native, > > > happily survived. :-) > > > > > > Moreover, I'd say that your > > > English is charming! At least, one is sure > > > that the > > > real human is > > > speaking and not some "robot" put on auto-pilot, so if the > > > new > > > Mooc is > > > going to be the same as theÂ Â current/old one, I'd prefer to > > > download > > > the > > > current files and watched them along with *.srt subtitles? > > > > > > Iow. my point > > > is that the accent is just one part of the talk/teaching, > > > but the > > > energy > > > behind it is much more imporant - this is, my conviction, based > > > on my > > > own > > > teaching experiences. > > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > Gour > > > > > > -- > > > From anger, complete delusion > > > arises, and from delusion > > > bewilderment of memory. When memory is > > > bewildered, > > > intelligence is lost, and when intelligence is lost > > > one falls > > > down again into the material pool. > > > > > > > > >

Oct. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Is possible to keep some code closed in Pharo?

by Ricardo Pacheco

Wow, that sounds great. Thanks a lot!! Ricardo -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Oct. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

by Nicolai Hess

Am 13.10.2017 5:50 PM schrieb "Andrew Glynn" <aglynn42(a)gmail.com>: I can't remember ever using API docs in *any* language, dynamic or not. They give you the method signatures, but if you have, say, methodX(int, int, String), how are you supposed to guess what ints and what String the method actually needs, Isn't this exactly what an apidoc is for? Additional documentation to describe the methods and arguments purpose. Maybe you have just seen poorly documented libraries? One of my favourite language fails can be reproduced by doing this: Declare a field private final in Java, initializing it either in the declaration or the constructor, and provide only a getter. Use the getter from another class and change the value of the local variable. Then use the getter again, but assign the value to a new local variable, and check the value. Maybe you should re-read about javas final keyword. It is not to meant making something immutable , you can just not reassign a new value. Java final != c++ const

Oct. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Problem with input to XML Parser - 'Invalid UTF8 encoding'

by Stephane Ducasse

Tx On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 7:29 AM, monty <monty2(a)programmer.net> wrote: > I know what the problem is and will have it fixed shortly. Thanks for the report. > >> Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 at 9:03 AM >> From: "Peter Kenny" <peter(a)pbkresearch.co.uk> >> To: pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Problem with input to XML Parser - 'Invalid UTF8 encoding' >> >> Correction - I am misrepresenting Sven. What he said was that Zinc would not >> look inside the HTML <head> node to find out about coding. It would of >> course use information in the HTTP headers, if any. >> >> >> Peter Kenny wrote >> > Henry >> > >> > Thanks for the explanations. It's a bit clearer now. I'm still not sure >> > about how ZnUrl>>retrieveContents manages to decode correctly in this >> > case; >> > I'm sure I recall Sven saying it didn't (and in his view shouldn't) look >> > at >> > the HTTP declarations in the header. There is also the mystery of how the >> > string reader in the XML-Parser package (XMLURI>>get) does the same trick, >> > when it is presumably what XMLHTMLParser>>parseURL: uses and fails. >> > >> > However, all these are second order problems. It all begins because the >> > Corriere web site does strange things with encoding, including using a >> > UTF8 >> > character in a page coded with 8859-1, as Paul pointed out. In any case, >> > reading the page as a string and then parsing it solves my problem, so I >> > shall stick to that as a standard procedure. Most importantly, I don't >> > think >> > there is any indication of a problem in the XML package for Monty to worry >> > about. >> > >> > Thanks again >> > >> > Peter >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >> >> >

Oct. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pillar (was Re: Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk)

by Stephane Ducasse

epub already works. Now it should be improved. Doing an pandoc exporter should not be that difficult. If you do it I will integrate it. On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:03 PM, Gour <gour(a)atmarama.com> wrote: > On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 17:18:54 +0000 > Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Well there is a move towards Pillar for class and method commands so >> who knows maybe we will have that soon enough ;) > > Let me say that I'm very happy seeing that Pillar is moving forward (e.g. > addition of support for footnotes) as well as plan for the future (*.epub > support) since I'm considering whether it could serve as single-source markup > for all of one's writings? > > After migrating from Python-powered static-site-generator (to Hugo) and rst > markup I was considering to use AsciiDoc(tor) markup for all my content, but, > so far, due to using Emacsm settled to use org-mode instead. Haven't tried with > slides (yet), but there is Pandoc support for it. > > Therefore, I'd rather see Pillar support in Pandoc which would buy us even more > import/export capabilities for free instead of focusing on single formats like > *.odt, *.epub etc. > > Pillar with 1st class support in Pandoc would, imho, improve status of Pharo > itself making it along with Pillar exceelent tool for development as well as > for all writing needs - articles, books, documentation, slide-presentations. > > But it would be nice to make it more transparent where/how can one submit > feature request for Pillar? > > Fogbugs issue trakcer is certainly not the ideal place these days... > > > Sincerely, > Gour > > -- > Everyone is forced to act helplessly according to the qualities > he has acquired from the modes of material nature; therefore no > one can refrain from doing something, not even for a moment. > > >

Oct. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] FYI about Pharo MOOC

by Stephane Ducasse

The production company told us that it was super strange without our voices. Now you can also have the french + subtitles. On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 2:42 PM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > I played C019SD-W1-S1-EN-V1.mp4 > and as well as the english voice, in the background I can still hear your > original french voice. > I'm curious the reasoning for this. > > cheers -ben > > > On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 3:59 AM, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> I'm about to release the en versions. >> you can find them unofficially on http://www.stephaneducasse.eu/MOOC/ >> >> Stef >> >> On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 10:10 PM, Gour <gour(a)atmarama.com> wrote: >> > On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 21:31:55 +0200 >> > Stephane Ducasse >> > <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > Hello Stef, >> > >> >> I will ask one guy thursday and let you know. >> > >> > Thanks a lot! >> > >> >> We will release Mooc with english voices (not mine else english >> >> natives would get an heart attack - I have what they call a sexy >> >> french accents ;) >> > >> > I did watch few of your Pharo-related presentations and, although not >> > native, >> > happily survived. :-) >> > >> > Moreover, I'd say that your English is charming! At least, one is sure >> > that the >> > real human is speaking and not some "robot" put on auto-pilot, so if the >> > new >> > Mooc is going to be the same as the current/old one, I'd prefer to >> > download >> > the current files and watched them along with *.srt subtitles? >> > >> > Iow. my point is that the accent is just one part of the talk/teaching, >> > but the >> > energy behind it is much more imporant - this is, my conviction, based >> > on my >> > own teaching experiences. >> > >> > >> > Sincerely, >> > Gour >> > >> > -- >> > From anger, complete delusion arises, and from delusion >> > bewilderment of memory. When memory is bewildered, >> > intelligence is lost, and when intelligence is lost >> > one falls down again into the material pool. >> > >> > >> > >> >

Oct. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] FYI about Pharo MOOC

by Stephane Ducasse

Superb! On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 5:03 PM, Ricardo Pacheco <ricardo.pacheco.roldan(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Great, I will have a look at them. I registered to participate in the MOOC > starting on Oct 16, so look forward to contribute back a bit. > > Ricardo > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >

Oct. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Is possible to keep some code closed in Pharo?

by Stephane Ducasse

Hi ricardo - You can ship pharo without sources. In fact the sources are not used during execution (just for the human). - You can ship pharo without debugger. This is one line of code. - Soon we expect to be able to remove the compiler and the decompiler :). - You can also control that the commandline does not allow code execution Now this is not user friendly. We wan with esteban to provide a way to deploy applications (by opposition of code). So I can tell you that we want to have a process and tooling to help for that. I you need help to get you started with Pharo let us know. stef On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Ricardo Pacheco <ricardo.pacheco.roldan(a)gmail.com> wrote: > IMHO, one important aspect to deliver comercial solutions for customers in an > environment like Pharo is to be able to protect certain code or algorithms > developed by the company. It possible to have some clases compiled and > closed to the eyes of customers? Or it is posible to have some kind of > access control to edit clases? > > A bit of context for my question. > In the company I work for in Mexico we have been using a similar live coding > environment for 30 years with great results. The environment we used until a > couple of years ago is named G2 by Gensym; lisp based internally, with is > own natural language like syntax for developers, with a very powerful > backward ans forwards chaining rule engine, an excellent toolkit to create > visual components and a wonderful VNC like and lightwaight > client(Telewindows) that makes visual interactions with a remote G2 very > easy with a very small bandwidth use. Until a couple of years ago, we > developed on it tailor made supply chain solutions and mathematical models; > since then we moved to Java and .NET. > We wish we could stay with live coding, but the draw back with that platform > we used is that is really expensive for customers and the company has been > changing hands to more lawyer oriented owners, because of its installed > based license fees and IP portfolio. So, getting to know Pharo makes me very > enthusiastic about the possibility to move back to live coding. > > Thanks for the response. > > Ricardo > > > > > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >

Oct. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

by Andrew Glynn

I can't remember ever using API docs in any language, dynamic or not.Â Â They give you the method signatures, but if you have, say, methodX(int, int, String), how are you supposed to guess what ints and what String the method actually needs, unless the methods are nothing but getters and setters (which I've never understood the point of) ?Â Â (I know, most give (int somename, int someothername, String whatever), but how often do are method names well thought through enough to imply definitively what the method needs?. Â It's my biggest issue with Algol-style syntax - the method caller is supposed to know how it works, rather than whoever actually wrote it.Â Â It's probably at least one of the reasons for the amount of OSS in Java, and more recently in JavaScript (though the latter is more no- style than Algol-style).Â Â I nearly always download the source to OSS libs although I rarely ever bother building it, so I know what a method does with the params, and I can be sure what params to give it. One of my favourite language fails can be reproduced by doing this:Â Declare a field private final in Java, initializing it either in the declaration or the constructor, and provide only a getter.Â Â Use the getter from another class and change the value of the local variable. Then use the getter again, but assign the value to a new local variable, and check the value. Â Guess what? The value is whatever you changed it to in your other local variable, although the API docs claim javac won't compile it. I tested this with Java 8,Â Â I haven't bothered to see if it was always like that or if they took the rule out of javac because it interfered with some syntactic parmesan, such as lambdas.Â Â I should copy my test code into VisualAge for Java and see if in fact it compiles with JDK 1.4.2, or if javac was changed in between 4 and 8, since the addition of various flavours of syntactic parmesan mostly started with Java 5. Not that it's all that important in one sense.Â Â If 'private' and 'final' were supposed to be guides for other developers to be careful if they're thinking about changing it, fine, anyone who doesn't isn't all that good a developer.Â Â But given the number of 'not very good' developers I've had the misfortune to work with in Java, it's more problematic than it should be.Â Â It also makes the pattern of a private field with a public setter even more useless, since the setter isn't needed to change the value.Â Â I always get dinged by whatever lint companies use for not bothering with that pattern, though, and pointing out that declaring the fields public accomplishes exactly the same thing never helps my case, because whatever lint they use, it has to be right, there's no way a non-lint developer might be right. Andrew Glynn -----Original Message----- Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2017 10:01:20 -0500Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern SmalltalkTo: pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.orgReply-to: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org>From: Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas <offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Yes. I know them. I mean API docs as static files. I don't really Â Â Â Â Â Â sold on them compared with a live system and I don't think static Â Â Â Â Â Â API docs are critical for Pharo success. Â Â Â Â Cheers, Â Â Â Â Offray Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â On 11/10/17 09:52, Dimitris Chloupis Â Â Â Â Â Â wrote: Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > Ah > Â Â Â Â Â Â and my static website was built with Pillar and Bootstrap, > using > Â Â Â Â Â Â bootstrap templates was easy because Pillar supports mustache > that > Â Â Â Â Â Â makes html manipulation much easierÂ > > Â Â Â Â Â Â > > Â Â Â Â Â Â http://www.kilon-alios.com > > Â Â Â Â Â Â > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Pillar of course is not made for generating websites but itâs > an > Â Â Â Â Â Â awesome Pharo library that allows for great degree of freedom > so I > Â Â Â Â Â Â thought , why not ? > > Â Â Â Â Â Â > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 at 17:48, Dimitris Chloupis > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > Docs are > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â available in static online html format , at least the > > book I > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â was working onÂ > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Pharo By ExampleÂ > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â You can find those links here > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/UpdatedPharoBy > > Example > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Our documentation system , Pillar , outputs pdf , html > > and > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â markdown files.Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â If the book in question is built like PBE with CI of > > Inria > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â where most Pharo related official projects are built then > > it > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â should have at least pdf and html with online access so > > you > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â can easily link to. > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Donât quote me on this but I think the html output of > > pillar > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â generate links even for paragraphs you can do an even > > more > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â process linking to the documentation.Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 at 17:40, Offray Vladimir > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Luna CÃ¡rdenas <offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â wrote: > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â The more I use Pharo, the less I use web > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â documentation. For me seems pretty suboptimal > > > compared > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â to live environment with code browser and GT- > > > Spotter. > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Regarding the comment on Medium, it also took > > > me > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â little to find #raisedTo:, so the millage can > > > vary. > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â What I was missing was proper books for > > > particular > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â domains, but Pharo books are covering that. I > > > don't > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â know if a Q&A site could improve search-ability > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â for newbies (certainly you can find little > > > stuff in > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Stack Overflow). > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â My bet is about trying to create more "end user" > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â tools (Grafoscopio is kind of this), besides > > > tools for > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â developers. There is a broad community of > > > people who > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â can be active contributors and members of the > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â community, welcome Pharo and live coding a lot > > > and > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â don't complain that much about stuff that is > > > not > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â already pretty similar to what they already > > > know > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â (being that only English MOOC or online static > > > html > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â docs). > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Cheers, > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Offray > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â On > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 11/10/17 07:34, Dimitris Chloupis wrote: > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â for me it is a yes and no situation, > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â yes its very coold to have your entire > > > > system in > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â your fingertips but Pharo has serious > > > > issues with > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â code organisation and I find the lack of > > > > namespaces > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â quite inconvenient. You have to be careful > > > > how to > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â name your classes which does not sound to > > > > me very > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â OOP friendly.Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Also the IDE does not handle > > > > spaggetification > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â very well, sure you can find implementors > > > > , > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â senders etc but if the execution chain is > > > > complex > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â , welcome to spaggeti hell. But that is a > > > > problem > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â with most other IDEs if not all as well. > > > > Problem > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â is in this case that we have the very > > > > good rule of > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â using sort methods which multiplies this > > > > problem > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â and makes navigation even harder. Code > > > > becomes > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â much easier to read per method and > > > > messages but > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â much harder to understand in a bird eye > > > > view. > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Some of that pain has been aleviated with > > > > the > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â introduction of GTSpotter which I have > > > > praised > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â quite a lot and I will continue to do so. > > > > But yeah > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â there are more needed to be done in the > > > > department > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â to make Pharo code navigation a more > > > > comfortable > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â task.Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 2:57 PM Vitor > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Medina Cruz <vitormcruz(a)gmail.com> > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â wrote: > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â I dunno, maybe Iâm weird, but I > > > > > find > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â the System Browser a fantastic way > > > > > to explore > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â the class library. If you find a > > > > > class or > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â method that isnât well documented, > > > > > write a > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â comment and send a change request. > > > > > Stef told > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â me this ages ago. I might add, if > > > > > you find a > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â bug you should write a test that > > > > > exercises the > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â bug and submit it on fogbugz (the > > > > > bug tracking > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â system). > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â I will reference of response of > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â mine to a similar opinion made by > > > > > Richard: https://medium.com/@vitormcruz/i-disagree-it-is-much > > > > > -harder-to-find-anything-in-the-environment-c6bdd44f6eea > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â My 2 cents. > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 11:59 PM, john pfersich <jpfersich@ > > > > > gmail.com> > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > On Oct 10, 2017, at 09:58, > > > > > > horrido > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com> > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > Interestingly, I'm getting > > > > > > a fair > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â amount of pushback on this. > > > > > > Personally, I > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > think it would be very > > > > > > helpful to > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â have a live (updatable, so as > > > > > > to keep it > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > current) reference page for > > > > > > the class > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â library, something that > > > > > > developers can > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > easily look up what they > > > > > > need. After > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â all, most of the power of > > > > > > Pharo comes > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > from the class library and > > > > > > we need to > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â make it as accessible as > > > > > > possible to > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > less experienced Pharoers > > > > > > (i.e., > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â beginners). > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > Exploring the class library > > > > > > through > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â the System Browser is very > > > > > > inefficient. > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > This is further exacerbated > > > > > > by the > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â fact that many classes and > > > > > > methods are > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > simply not well-documented > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â (containing a cursory remark > > > > > > which is just > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â barely > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > useful). > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â I dunno, maybe Iâm weird, but I > > > > > > find > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â the System Browser a fantastic > > > > > > way to > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â explore the class library. If > > > > > > you find a > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â class or method that isnât well > > > > > > documented, > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â write a comment and send a > > > > > > change request. > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Stef told me this ages ago. I > > > > > > might add, if > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â you find a bug you should write > > > > > > a test that > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â exercises the bug and submit it > > > > > > on fogbugz > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â (the bug tracking system). > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > I realize that creating a > > > > > > live > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â reference page is not easy > > > > > > to do. In > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â fact, > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > it's a lot of work. But > > > > > > the absence > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â of such a page is a real > > > > > > obstacle to > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > Pharo acceptance. > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > horrido wrote > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> Thanks. I gave your > > > > > > answer > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â verbatim. I also added the > > > > > > following > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â paragraph: > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> The problem I find with > > > > > > todayâs > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â developers is that they are > > > > > > rather > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> closed-minded. They are > > > > > > rigid > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â and inflexible, and not > > > > > > willing to adapt > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â to > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> new and different ways > > > > > > of doing > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â things. In my generation > > > > > > (circa > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> 1980â1990), > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> people didnât have a > > > > > > problem > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â with trying different > > > > > > technologies. > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Thatâs > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> why > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> I had no issue with > > > > > > learning > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Smalltalk 10 years ago, > > > > > > after I had > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â retired > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> from a 20-year-long > > > > > > career in C > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â systems programming and > > > > > > FORTRAN > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â scientific > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> programming. > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 > > > > > > wrote > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> On 6 Oct 2017, at > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 14:54, horrido < > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> horrido.hobbies@ > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> I received this > > > > > > comment > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â from someone who > > > > > > complained: > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> *What about the lack > > > > > > of > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â documentation? From time to > > > > > > time Iâve > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â checked > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> some > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> SmallTalk > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â implementations like > > > > > > Squeak, > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â GNU-Smalltalk and now > > > > > > Pharo. Of > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> these, only > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â GNU-SmallTalk appears to > > > > > > have a free, > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â official programming > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> guide > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> and core library > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â reference that any serious > > > > > > programmer > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â expects from a > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> language. > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> https://www.gnu.org/so > > > > > > ftware/smalltalk/manual-base/html_node/* > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> I pointed to Pharo's > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â documentation but then he > > > > > > came back > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â with: > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> *Then show me a link > > > > > > of > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â the free, maintained > > > > > > reference > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â documentation for > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> the > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> classes that form âthe > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â core libraryâ, like this > > > > > > one for Python > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> (https://docs.python.o > > > > > > rg/3/library/index.html)* > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> It's true, most > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Smalltalks do not have a > > > > > > core library > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â reference, not > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> even > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> VisualWorks! So what > > > > > > is > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â the proper response to this > > > > > > complaint? > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> The first answer is > > > > > > that > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Pharo/Smalltalk is unique > > > > > > in that a > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â running > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> system/IDE contains > > > > > > _all_ > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â source code, _all_ > > > > > > documentation (class, > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> method, > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> help, tutorial), _all_ > > > > > > unit > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â tests and _all_ runnable > > > > > > examples in a > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â very > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> easy, accessible way. > > > > > > It > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â takes some getting used to, > > > > > > but this is > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â actually > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> better and much more > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â powerful than any > > > > > > alternative. > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> The second answer is > > > > > > that > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â there are lots of books and > > > > > > articles > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â that take > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> the classic/structured > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â book/paper approach. There > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> http://books.pharo.org, > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â http://themoosebook.org, > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> http://book.seaside.st/ > > > > > > book, > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â http://medium.com/concernin > > > > > > g-pharo > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â and many > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> more. > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> -- > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> Sent from: http://foru > > > > > > m.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> -- > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> Sent from: http://forum. > > > > > > world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > Sent from: http://forum.w > > > > > > orld.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > Â Â Â Â Â Â > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

Oct. 13, 2017

Is possible to keep some code closed in Pharo?

by Ricardo Pacheco

IMHO, one important aspect to deliver comercial solutions for customers in an environment like Pharo is to be able to protect certain code or algorithms developed by the company. It possible to have some clases compiled and closed to the eyes of customers? Or it is posible to have some kind of access control to edit clases? A bit of context for my question. In the company I work for in Mexico we have been using a similar live coding environment for 30 years with great results. The environment we used until a couple of years ago is named G2 by Gensym; lisp based internally, with is own natural language like syntax for developers, with a very powerful backward ans forwards chaining rule engine, an excellent toolkit to create visual components and a wonderful VNC like and lightwaight client(Telewindows) that makes visual interactions with a remote G2 very easy with a very small bandwidth use. Until a couple of years ago, we developed on it tailor made supply chain solutions and mathematical models; since then we moved to Java and .NET. We wish we could stay with live coding, but the draw back with that platform we used is that is really expensive for customers and the company has been changing hands to more lawyer oriented owners, because of its installed based license fees and IP portfolio. So, getting to know Pharo makes me very enthusiastic about the possibility to move back to live coding. Thanks for the response. Ricardo -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Oct. 13, 2017