October 2017 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Exchanging information between 2 pharo applications (2 images running on two different computers)

by CÃ©drick BÃ©ler

> > Hi Cedric, > > a short answer: some of what you're trying to do has been traditionnally handled by object databases - multiple images retrieving and updating objects on a central store ensuring lots of good properties : see Gemstone. Yes , Iâd like to avoid this centralized approach. > > Another answer, since you're looking at content-addressable distributed file systems. You can resolve the offline mode with object duplications (duplicate all objects in the images using them), and, when coming back online, have a merge approach to reconcile changes between versions of shared objects. Content-based hashes as identifiers in a distributed store have very nice properties for that purpose, because, if image C has modified object 0xcdaff3, then that object has in fact become object 0xee345d for that image (and the unmodified object is still 0xcdaff3 for images A and B). You nailed it. This is what Iâd like to reproduce. Existing implementations out there seems to uses whatever nodes on the network to replicate the information. Iâd like to control nodes where it is replicated. My nodes (all my app instances + nodes of person Iâm exchanging information with + eventually friend of friend). What hash function would you use ? To get something compatible with ipfs, Iâd need something like: https://github.com/multiformats/multihash <https://github.com/multiformats/multihash> It looks to me quite universal as self describing. But any (existing) hash method compatible with content hashing would do the job. > I wouldn't be against a slightly higher granularity when dealing with object transfers, however. You mean at the pharo level ? Higher granularity means having more control on the exchange/merge ? Cheers, CÃ©drick

Oct. 27, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Exchanging information between 2 pharo applications (2 images running on two different computers)

by Thierry Goubier

Hi Cedric, a short answer: some of what you're trying to do has been traditionnally handled by object databases - multiple images retrieving and updating objects on a central store ensuring lots of good properties : see Gemstone. Another answer, since you're looking at content-addressable distributed file systems. You can resolve the offline mode with object duplications (duplicate all objects in the images using them), and, when coming back online, have a merge approach to reconcile changes between versions of shared objects. Content-based hashes as identifiers in a distributed store have very nice properties for that purpose, because, if image C has modified object 0xcdaff3, then that object has in fact become object 0xee345d for that image (and the unmodified object is still 0xcdaff3 for images A and B). I wouldn't be against a slightly higher granularity when dealing with object transfers, however. Regards, Thierry 2017-10-27 10:43 GMT+02:00 CÃ©drick BÃ©ler <cdrick65(a)gmail.com>: > > Nothing complex about two images exchanging messages, its not even complex > to transmit objects via fuel, you even transmit a debugger or any part of > the live environment or even make an "internet" of images that join objects > together. Sky is the limit. Pharo already provides you will all the > tools/libraries to do this. > > > Yes. Thatâs why I asked for better practices. > > > A streamsocket (not to be confused with regular sockets) will delay the > messages (a collection of bytes) until they arrive to the receiver or until > they have reached the timeout period. Offline mode is pretty much > obligatory even for plain old internet web apps because of drops in > connection or the plain fact a connection can become slow. > > > Offline mode is to me of first importance. > > Letâs say I have a sets of Pharo app (nodes). > Each one are independent running on different devices/computers. > > I want to exchange information between them according to some kind of > contracts and also on connection availability. > > What I find different from usual message exchanges between two images is > that I want to have full control on it. Plus I consider images offline by > default (meaning two images have different versions of the same info). So > conflict is the norm. > > Also, I donât want to send message remotely (with behavior), I just want > to send/share an information and sync them (when possible). > > Connection between 2 images can be through a network but eventually > through a serial connection (usb cable, Bluetooth,...). > > So what I try to do as a proto is having connection controlled by my apps > (I put the app offline (not by switching off wifi but by switching > logically). I can see nodes availability and activate connexion manually > then see if conflict resolution is ok, + I log every connecitions changes > and exchanges). This is my plans for now but it may change ! ^^ > > > I used streamsockets in my Pharo to Python bridge (Atlas) because the > execution was not necessary synchronous , I was sending Python command to a > 3d application from Pharo and I had to make sure that the bridge was > working even in the case of a command that could take hours to execute like > a rendering process. > > > Iâll look at stream sockets and mq stuffs. > > > Cheers, > > CÃ©drick > > > One cool trick I did was to send the Python errors back to Pharo and > trigger them as Pharo's regular MessageNotUnderstood , this is a nice way > to make sure that you can fix a wrong message after it has been executing > without going to the image that is executing it. > > The limitation with sockets which what every frameworks uses because AFAIK > they are the only means to communicate remotely is that they are not top > performance so that mean that you can send long loops but executing > communication inside long loops will either slow you down considerably or > simply timeout your socket. Sockets can timeout from both ends if they feel > that for some reason they lost communication with the other side and > reached their timeout period. Timeout period is customization. > > This is a problem I did not tackle with my implementation because I dont > think there can be an actual practical solution better than avoiding this > scenario. > > Only shared memory seems to overcome this but it can be used only locally > and not remotely (aka on same computer) . > > On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 4:41 PM CÃ©drick BÃ©ler <cdrick65(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> I had a look and this is not (natively) possible. >> >> The idea of the off-line mode would be to delay messages that are sent to >> the peer until a connection is established. >> >> I think I have to try to do it by myself (like having a list of >> information exchange that wait until a connexion is established). >> >> What I try to do is not as complex as two general image exchanging >> messages on objects (like on TelePharo). >> >> I just want a repository of information (mainly a collection of static >> information/data versions) on both peers to be synchronized when a >> connection is established. >> >> >> >> >> >> Le 25 oct. 2017 Ã 15:31, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit >> : >> >> What is offline mode? >> >> 2017-10-25 15:10 GMT+02:00 CÃ©drick BÃ©ler <cdrick65(a)gmail.com>: >> >>> Thanks Denis. I will ! I knew I have seen a telephoto component that >>> could help but forgot about it ! >>> >>> Do you know if itâs possible to handle offline mode ? >>> >>> >>> >>> Le 25 oct. 2017 Ã 15:05, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> a >>> Ã©crit : >>> >>> Look at Seamless https://github.com/dionisiydk/Seamless. >>> >>> 2017-10-25 14:21 GMT+02:00 CÃ©drick BÃ©ler <cdrick65(a)gmail.com>: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I want to connect two applications (1 by image, each one on a different >>>> computer) so as as to exchange information (data) between them. >>>> >>>> So my question is about the best (smalltalk) practices to connect two >>>> app/image and exchange data. >>>> >>>> I imagine either with a direct connection through a network (TCP >>>> Socket, Web socket, pure HTTP with Zinc) and/or with a serial connection. >>>> At first, without any Â« security Â». But later, information exchanges >>>> will be encrypted. >>>> >>>> Iâve seen some information on how to use SerialPort, or even FileStream. >>>> I could do it (or at least simulate it with HTTP). What are the other >>>> options ? Socket ? >>>> Do we have P2P libs (I couldnât find) with eventually discovery >>>> features ? >>>> >>>> Any comment / suggestion / pointers are greatly welcome. >>>> >>>> TIA. >>>> >>>> CÃ©drick >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>

Oct. 27, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Cryptography and hashing in Pharo

by CÃ©drick BÃ©ler

An interesting read on P2P content distribution. https://medium.com/paratii/a-brief-history-of-p2p-content-distribution-in-1… To me Smalltalk fits naturally in this paradigm (isnât it gemstone adn?). My naive thought would be to push on such development. Better scalability, resilience ... Does it exists Pharo developments that falls in this category (p2p content distribution) ? Would it be interesting to have DHT in Pharo ? For which usage ? Just thinking loud ! ^^ Cheers, CÃ©drick > Le 27 oct. 2017 Ã 10:04, CÃ©drick BÃ©ler <cdrick65(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : > > > >> Le 26 oct. 2017 Ã 20:35, Paul DeBruicker <pdebruic(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : >> >> I made this port/copy of the squeaksource package: >> >> http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Cryptography/Cryptography >> >> >> Is that the version you were thinking of and couldn't find? > > Oh probably. I might have overlooked, and maybe only on Github. > > >> >> What is ifs? >> > > Sorry this was a typo. I meant ipfs (a distributed file system). > > It works like GIT. Under the hood is a (distributed) Merkle DAG that store content hash. > > https://ipfs.io/ > > The official implantation is in GO and I think the js (node) version is quite complete too. > > I see it as a source of inspiration (and eventually a kind of âeternalâ backend). > > >> I don't understand what you want to do with the hashing. Are you talking >> about hashing domain objects for external storage? Do you have to interact >> with another system or just have hashed data in the image or stored >> somewhere internally to your project? What OS are you going to use? > > Not sure yet what I want to do with that. I see content hashing as a digital fingerprint of information exchanged by two systems. > > What I try to demo is a personal information system (several personal nodes representing it simulates by several Pharo apps) that interact (exchange info) with others person personal information system. > > Iâd like to embrace the distributed/decentralized programming paradigms which if I understand well would allow to build such system without a centralized point of failure. > So no real db, only nodes that replicates information once shared. Amongst other things, Iâd like to show that if a node is lost (stolen smartphone for instance), one can rebuilt it from other nodes. All non shared info are lost forever though. There can be later some special node acting as storage. > > >> >> >> I think you can get to the point where your objects can be hashed by any of >> the backends you mention and just change among them as your needs change. >> That being said NaCl seems the most generally useful. Cryptographic hashing >> in Pharo is slower than C, so depending on the volume of data to hash a >> Pharo implementation may be too slow. > > At start, I can do without cryptography but Iâd like soon to think about a way to encrypt information exchange between nodes. Maybe symmetric crypto will be enough. > > Hashing on the other one would be more to have a way to index information. Cryto to encrypt exchanges. > >> >> >> >> hope this helps >> > > Yes sure. > > I hope I was clearer in my explanations ! > > Cheers, > > CÃ©drick > >> >> Paul >> >> >> CÃ©drick BÃ©ler wrote >>> Hi again, >>> >>> >>> Concerning cryptography in Pharo, there are to my knowledge : >>> => a package developed in squeak [1] that was I think ported/forked for >>> Pharo. I cannot find the Pharo version >>> => a binding to the sodium library (NaCl) [2] >>> >>> With one would you recommend ? Maybe another option ? >>> >>> >>> Concerning hashing (Iâd like to hash information content a bit like this >>> is done in ifs with their multihash lib [3]) >>> => I found a keccak implication with I think would do the [4]. Any >>> feedback ? Other implementations available ? >>> => Do you think having something like ifs multihash would be interesting >>> in Pharo ? >>> >>> >>> Again, thanks in advance for your comments/advices. >>> >>> CÃ©drick >>> >>> >>> [1] http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography.html >>> <http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography.html> >>> [2] >>> http://catalog.pharo.org/catalog/project/Nacl?_s=54MCZlmxc6F08Ht4&_k=HxcBD1… >>> <http://catalog.pharo.org/catalog/project/Nacl?_s=54MCZlmxc6F08Ht4&_k=HxcBD1pRVtXkfVFM> >>> [3] https://github.com/multiformats/multihash >>> <https://github.com/multiformats/multihash> >>> [4] https://github.com/sbragagnolo/Keccak >>> <https://github.com/sbragagnolo/Keccak> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >>

Oct. 27, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Exchanging information between 2 pharo applications (2 images running on two different computers)

by CÃ©drick BÃ©ler

> Nothing complex about two images exchanging messages, its not even complex to transmit objects via fuel, you even transmit a debugger or any part of the live environment or even make an "internet" of images that join objects together. Sky is the limit. Pharo already provides you will all the tools/libraries to do this. Yes. Thatâs why I asked for better practices. > > A streamsocket (not to be confused with regular sockets) will delay the messages (a collection of bytes) until they arrive to the receiver or until they have reached the timeout period. Offline mode is pretty much obligatory even for plain old internet web apps because of drops in connection or the plain fact a connection can become slow. Offline mode is to me of first importance. Letâs say I have a sets of Pharo app (nodes). Each one are independent running on different devices/computers. I want to exchange information between them according to some kind of contracts and also on connection availability. What I find different from usual message exchanges between two images is that I want to have full control on it. Plus I consider images offline by default (meaning two images have different versions of the same info). So conflict is the norm. Also, I donât want to send message remotely (with behavior), I just want to send/share an information and sync them (when possible). Connection between 2 images can be through a network but eventually through a serial connection (usb cable, Bluetooth,...). So what I try to do as a proto is having connection controlled by my apps (I put the app offline (not by switching off wifi but by switching logically). I can see nodes availability and activate connexion manually then see if conflict resolution is ok, + I log every connecitions changes and exchanges). This is my plans for now but it may change ! ^^ > > I used streamsockets in my Pharo to Python bridge (Atlas) because the execution was not necessary synchronous , I was sending Python command to a 3d application from Pharo and I had to make sure that the bridge was working even in the case of a command that could take hours to execute like a rendering process. Iâll look at stream sockets and mq stuffs. Cheers, CÃ©drick > > One cool trick I did was to send the Python errors back to Pharo and trigger them as Pharo's regular MessageNotUnderstood , this is a nice way to make sure that you can fix a wrong message after it has been executing without going to the image that is executing it. > > The limitation with sockets which what every frameworks uses because AFAIK they are the only means to communicate remotely is that they are not top performance so that mean that you can send long loops but executing communication inside long loops will either slow you down considerably or simply timeout your socket. Sockets can timeout from both ends if they feel that for some reason they lost communication with the other side and reached their timeout period. Timeout period is customization. > > This is a problem I did not tackle with my implementation because I dont think there can be an actual practical solution better than avoiding this scenario. > > Only shared memory seems to overcome this but it can be used only locally and not remotely (aka on same computer) . > >> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 4:41 PM CÃ©drick BÃ©ler <cdrick65(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> I had a look and this is not (natively) possible. >> >> The idea of the off-line mode would be to delay messages that are sent to the peer until a connection is established. >> >> I think I have to try to do it by myself (like having a list of information exchange that wait until a connexion is established). >> >> What I try to do is not as complex as two general image exchanging messages on objects (like on TelePharo). >> >> I just want a repository of information (mainly a collection of static information/data versions) on both peers to be synchronized when a connection is established. >> >> >> >> >> >>> Le 25 oct. 2017 Ã 15:31, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : >>> >>> What is offline mode? >>> >>> 2017-10-25 15:10 GMT+02:00 CÃ©drick BÃ©ler <cdrick65(a)gmail.com>: >>>> Thanks Denis. I will ! I knew I have seen a telephoto component that could help but forgot about it ! >>>> >>>> Do you know if itâs possible to handle offline mode ? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Le 25 oct. 2017 Ã 15:05, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : >>>>> >>>>> Look at Seamless https://github.com/dionisiydk/Seamless. >>>>> >>>>> 2017-10-25 14:21 GMT+02:00 CÃ©drick BÃ©ler <cdrick65(a)gmail.com>: >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I want to connect two applications (1 by image, each one on a different computer) so as as to exchange information (data) between them. >>>>>> >>>>>> So my question is about the best (smalltalk) practices to connect two app/image and exchange data. >>>>>> >>>>>> I imagine either with a direct connection through a network (TCP Socket, Web socket, pure HTTP with Zinc) and/or with a serial connection. >>>>>> At first, without any Â« security Â». But later, information exchanges will be encrypted. >>>>>> >>>>>> Iâve seen some information on how to use SerialPort, or even FileStream. >>>>>> I could do it (or at least simulate it with HTTP). What are the other options ? Socket ? >>>>>> Do we have P2P libs (I couldnât find) with eventually discovery features ? >>>>>> >>>>>> Any comment / suggestion / pointers are greatly welcome. >>>>>> >>>>>> TIA. >>>>>> >>>>>> CÃ©drick >>>>> >>>> >>> >>

Oct. 27, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Cryptography and hashing in Pharo

by CÃ©drick BÃ©ler

> Le 26 oct. 2017 Ã 20:35, Paul DeBruicker <pdebruic(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : > > I made this port/copy of the squeaksource package: > > http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Cryptography/Cryptography > > > Is that the version you were thinking of and couldn't find? Oh probably. I might have overlooked, and maybe only on Github. > > What is ifs? Sorry this was a typo. I meant ipfs (a distributed file system). It works like GIT. Under the hood is a (distributed) Merkle DAG that store content hash. https://ipfs.io/ The official implantation is in GO and I think the js (node) version is quite complete too. I see it as a source of inspiration (and eventually a kind of âeternalâ backend). > I don't understand what you want to do with the hashing. Are you talking > about hashing domain objects for external storage? Do you have to interact > with another system or just have hashed data in the image or stored > somewhere internally to your project? What OS are you going to use? Not sure yet what I want to do with that. I see content hashing as a digital fingerprint of information exchanged by two systems. What I try to demo is a personal information system (several personal nodes representing it simulates by several Pharo apps) that interact (exchange info) with others person personal information system. Iâd like to embrace the distributed/decentralized programming paradigms which if I understand well would allow to build such system without a centralized point of failure. So no real db, only nodes that replicates information once shared. Amongst other things, Iâd like to show that if a node is lost (stolen smartphone for instance), one can rebuilt it from other nodes. All non shared info are lost forever though. There can be later some special node acting as storage. > > > I think you can get to the point where your objects can be hashed by any of > the backends you mention and just change among them as your needs change. > That being said NaCl seems the most generally useful. Cryptographic hashing > in Pharo is slower than C, so depending on the volume of data to hash a > Pharo implementation may be too slow. At start, I can do without cryptography but Iâd like soon to think about a way to encrypt information exchange between nodes. Maybe symmetric crypto will be enough. Hashing on the other one would be more to have a way to index information. Cryto to encrypt exchanges. > > > > hope this helps > Yes sure. I hope I was clearer in my explanations ! Cheers, CÃ©drick > > Paul > > > CÃ©drick BÃ©ler wrote >> Hi again, >> >> >> Concerning cryptography in Pharo, there are to my knowledge : >> => a package developed in squeak [1] that was I think ported/forked for >> Pharo. I cannot find the Pharo version >> => a binding to the sodium library (NaCl) [2] >> >> With one would you recommend ? Maybe another option ? >> >> >> Concerning hashing (Iâd like to hash information content a bit like this >> is done in ifs with their multihash lib [3]) >> => I found a keccak implication with I think would do the [4]. Any >> feedback ? Other implementations available ? >> => Do you think having something like ifs multihash would be interesting >> in Pharo ? >> >> >> Again, thanks in advance for your comments/advices. >> >> CÃ©drick >> >> >> [1] http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography.html >> <http://www.squeaksource.com/Cryptography.html> >> [2] >> http://catalog.pharo.org/catalog/project/Nacl?_s=54MCZlmxc6F08Ht4&_k=HxcBD1… >> <http://catalog.pharo.org/catalog/project/Nacl?_s=54MCZlmxc6F08Ht4&_k=HxcBD1pRVtXkfVFM> >> [3] https://github.com/multiformats/multihash >> <https://github.com/multiformats/multihash> >> [4] https://github.com/sbragagnolo/Keccak >> <https://github.com/sbragagnolo/Keccak> > > > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >

Oct. 27, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Business process (declaration and orchestration), ontology/taxonomy,

by CÃ©drick BÃ©ler

Thank you! I thons this just perfect as a starting point ! Cheers, Cedrick EnvoyÃ© de mon iPhone > Le 26 oct. 2017 Ã 19:38, Paul DeBruicker <pdebruic(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : > > Maybe the package described here has what you're looking for : > > http://forum.world.st/Ann-Workflow-td4963635.html > > > > > > > > CÃ©drick BÃ©ler wrote >> Hi again, this is my last question and the more general one of the day :-) >> >> >> Iâm looking for way of representing and executing simple "business >> processes" in Pharo and a way of declaring domain ontologies/taxonomies. >> >> I didnât find any lib around this subjects except some projects in other >> smalltalk dialects. >> >> I just wander if somebody has done some work in these field. Iâm also >> interested in (KISS) design discussions around these topics, hence this >> email. >> >> I donât want to do a full fledged business process middleware. >> >> I would need : >> - a way to represent simple business processes (succession of activities >> with logic gates (and/or/xor) => I might be able to do that by myself). >> - a way to execute these processes (routines) in a semi-aotumatic manner >> => This looks more difficult to do to me. >> => my aim is to execute recurrent routines (my routines) with the help of >> a Pharo application >> >> >> For such a system, I also need a way to categorize information context. >> Again, I donât think I need a full fledged ontology implementation like >> Description Logic (or whatever). I think Iâll be happy with information >> tagging according to a predefined taxonomy. Instead of flat tags, Iâd like >> them to implement some sort of multiple inheritance. For instance, I may >> need a tag #soccer that "inherit" #sport. >> >> Any information regarding taxonomy tagging in Pharo ? (Or eventually >> ontology?). >> >> >> >> TIA, >> >> CÃ©drick > > > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >

Oct. 27, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Binary Decision Diagram Package in Smalltalk

by Prof. Andrew P. Black

Thanks for the responses so far. I see that I need to clarify my enquiry. B-Trees and BDDs are not the same. BDDs are an efficient and compact representations for Boolean functions, sometimes used in SAT-solvers and electronics design. The key idea is that since the output must be 0 or 1, you can represent any Boolean function as a tree whose depth is the same as the number of bits in the input. To make the tree small and efficient, though, you need to eliminate any node whose two children are the same, and to share subtrees, so that you really get a DAG, not a tree. The full name for these efficient compressed trees is âReduced Order Binary Decision Diagramsâ, or ROBDDs. I was hoping that someone else had implemented the algorithms necessary to build this representation. Because sets can be considered to be Booleans functions (true => argument is in the set), you can use ROBDDs to efficiently represent large sets. To be clear, despite the word âdiagramâ in the name, one is not normally interested in drawing the BDD â except in the documentation for the package ;-). Normally, BDDs they are used to represent sets, or functions, where the drawing would be hopelessly large. The BuDDy package (http://buddy.sourceforge.net/manual/main.html) is an example of what Iâm looking for, but unfortunately itâs in C++. Andrew > On 25 Oct 2017, at 21:39 , Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi andrew > > I think that Avi did a package about BDD (but I thought it was special > binary trees) so this is probably the same. > Did you check on Squeaksource? > http://www.squeaksource.com/BTree.html > If this is what you are looking for I can help porting it to Pharo. > > Stef > > > On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 9:02 PM, Prof. Andrew P. Black <black(a)cs.pdx.edu> wrote: >> Does anyone know of a BDD â thatâs Binary Decision Diagram â package written in Smalltalk? >> >> Andrew >> >> >

Oct. 27, 2017

"sourcetrail" a code browser for C++/Java

by Holger Freyther

Hi, I was just watching some videos and stumbled across sourcetrail[1][2]. The visualizations look pretty neat. Maybe it can be used an inspiration? cheers holger [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8S6V6U5Vr4 [2] https://www.sourcetrail.com

Oct. 27, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] UFFI and Fortran

by Ben Coman

Always starting by assuming someone in another language wants to do the same ;) googling... fortran ffi python second result... https://maurow.bitbucket.io/notes/calling_fortran_from_misc.html I only skimmed quickly, but it seems to hint how to do it from Pharo UFFI. cheers -ben P.S. Interesting concept. All too often its C libraries used as an example, but IIUC, Fortran still provides the highest performance of all the numerical libraries, with a many-year pedigree of reliability.

Oct. 27, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

by Ben Coman

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 3:40 PM, Paulo R. Dellani <dellani(a)pobox.com> wrote: > I like your depiction of the situation and arguments, Andrew. > > The inherent volatility of the software industry due to its tendency > to self disruption, as you pointed out, is fertile ground to all kinds of > crap, but we as developers should keep our eyes wide open and > look for the pearls and gems that grow here and there, > like Pharo Smalltalk. > > Of course my "vision", as a Smalltalker is inherently biased, but > as you said, when "shit has to work", I think that we have good > cards at our hands. > If that is a key requirement, share these with your stakeholders... * GemStone:64 Update and Roadmap https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejtXqJoSrb4&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_THfKwhzxFwbXy… * Running Pharo on the GemStone VM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkvjUXn3tGs&list=PLJ5nSnWzQXi_THfKwhzxFwbXy… "Develop on Pharo, Deploy on Gemstone" seems to be a growing meme. > So yesterday we had another meeting and I think I could make a > good point for Smalltalk, thanks to all your arguments here at the > list. But surely the absolute killer argument is that "this shit really > works" :-) > > As pointed out by several of you, integration is key. For my particular > present case, I could successfully integrate the developed tools in > the system, a medical imaging processing pipeline, > Juan might be able to advise on the suitability of Smalltalk for image processing... * https://news.squeak.org/2017/05/24/satellogic-hyperspectral-cameras-geometr… * https://www.nature.com/articles/n-12305964 Regarding the reality of Pharo having less libraries than mainstream languages. I am reminded of this interesting perspective... * https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2001/10/14/in-defense-of-not-invented-here-s… that reuse is not always an advantage. Certainly FFI provides access to a large selection of pre-made libraries - but it opens applications to memory protection faults and other quirks that make debugging more difficult. As always, its "horses for courses". cheers -ben

Oct. 27, 2017