October 2017 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

by Sebastian Heidbrink

Hi Paulo, I think this is not the right question to ask. The problem is not "Where to find Smalltalk developers?", the problem is rather "How much effort does it take to help a good experienced OO developer to transition to Smalltalk?" OO developers have to steadily gain and learn new technologies and frameworks... So why not Smalltalk? Those developers that are not willing to learn a new language just because they consider the trade-offs of not finding a job in that field that easily, might not be the best choice for your team anyway... That is my experience... I know more developers missing the "Smalltalk experience" than those hating Smalltalk once they left a team... Sebastian On 2017-10-19 12:04 AM, Paulo R. Dellani wrote: > Dear all, > > after using Smalltalk for several years I developed a passion for the > language (how not to?), and Pharo is just so great to develop with. > So thank you guys for keeping this wonderful project running. > > Unfortunately, it is not easy to always point out why Smalltalk > should be employed as "main development language" in a team > or for a project. In the last discussion of this sort I was confronted > with the question "where are we going to get new smalltalk > developers if our startup grows or if you go?". Well, I had no > good answer to that. What would have you answered? > > Cheers, > > Paulo > > >

Oct. 19, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Smalltalk Argument

by James Ladd

Hi Paulo, That is a really good question and I hope to do it justice. What if you chose Elixir, Ruby, Closure, Go or Pony or Smalltalk - where would you get developers? There is some validity to this question as it can be hard to get developers but in Smalltalkâs case there is a heritage that can help with that more so than say others that are too new to have a large community following and of course a reputation. Smalltalk has a reputation as a very productive environment and on average a better class (pardon the pun) of developers. There is something about Smalltalk developers that in my experience outshines developers from other backgrounds. Personally Iâd see Smalltalk as a draw card to join a company but Iâm biased. While it is important in a startup to attract good developers I would say that âgoodâ developers are more interested in the problem being solved than specifically the language being used. The goal w be to get something out and make revenue. You will most likely re-write at a future point that makes sense using what you have learned anyways. Of all the languages I have used over 30 years I find Smalltalk the easiest to pick up and run w so should you leave others should be able to continue in your absence. Besides depending on their position and background you w want them to own the solution and if changing language is part of that then so be it. That said, if they use Smalltalk for any reasonable amount of time and in anger Iâd be surprised if they like you didnât come to love it. In a nutshell - language choice is the least of your worries - James Sent from my Commodore 64 > On 19 Oct 2017, at 6:04 pm, Paulo R. Dellani <dellani(a)pobox.com> wrote: > > Dear all, > > after using Smalltalk for several years I developed a passion for the > language (how not to?), and Pharo is just so great to develop with. > So thank you guys for keeping this wonderful project running. > > Unfortunately, it is not easy to always point out why Smalltalk > should be employed as "main development language" in a team > or for a project. In the last discussion of this sort I was confronted > with the question "where are we going to get new smalltalk > developers if our startup grows or if you go?". Well, I had no > good answer to that. What would have you answered? > > Cheers, > > Paulo > >

Oct. 19, 2017

Smalltalk Argument

by Paulo R. Dellani

Dear all, after using Smalltalk for several years I developed a passion for the language (how not to?), and Pharo is just so great to develop with. So thank you guys for keeping this wonderful project running. Unfortunately, it is not easy to always point out why Smalltalk should be employed as "main development language" in a team or for a project. In the last discussion of this sort I was confronted with the question "where are we going to get new smalltalk developers if our startup grows or if you go?". Well, I had no good answer to that. What would have you answered? Cheers, Paulo

Oct. 19, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and instance variables ...

by Ben Coman

Hi James, As an offshoot to your question, when I wanted to understand the difference between "instance variables", "class variables" and "class instance variables" I made this quick demo... http://forum.world.st/Class-vars-and-inst-vars-of-a-class-tp4749910p4749914… that could make a good test to compare to existing Smalltalk systems. cheers -ben On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 6:45 PM, James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: > That said from memory I think it was Digitalk or Enfin that used to > automatically generate accessors and mutators > > Sent from my Commodore 64 > > On 18 Oct 2017, at 4:34 pm, Markus Stumptner <mst(a)cs.unisa.edu.au> wrote: > > It would break code all over the place... > > On 18/10/2017 16:02, James Ladd wrote: > > What if accessors were generated but not mutators? > > Sent from my Commodore 64 > > On 18 Oct 2017, at 4:21 pm, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 7:07 AM, James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hey David, >> >> If you could only access instance variables in the class that defined >> them and therefore only in a subclass via an accessor / mutator method w >> that be a big problem in your view? >> > > Yes. > > I don't want to have to define accessors, which are public, just to have > the subclasses access the instance variables. > > >> >> Sent from my Commodore 64 >> >> On 18 Oct 2017, at 2:41 pm, David Mason <dmason(a)ryerson.ca> wrote: >> >> In Pharo, open a browser on OrderedCollection, then click "Variables" in >> the top left of the window and then "array"... if you scroll through you >> can see that mostly OrderedCollection methods use it, but some >> SortedCollection (a subclass) methods also use it. >> >> The model is similar to protected in Java (see http://docs.oracle.com/ja >> vase/tutorial/java/javaOO/accesscontrol.html ) except there is no >> "Package" column. >> >> On 17 October 2017 at 23:30, James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Please could you provide an example? >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 2:16 PM, David Mason <dmason(a)ryerson.ca> wrote: >>> >>>> Any instance method in the class where the instance variable is defined >>>> or in a subclass can access the instance variable. Similarly for class >>>> methods to access class-side variables, and for class and instance methods >>>> to access class variables. >>>> >>>> On 17 October 2017 at 23:04, James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello Pharo Users, >>>>> >>>>> I'm wondering about instance variables for support in Redline >>>>> Smalltalk and >>>>> want to get my understanding straight. >>>>> >>>>> Are instance variables only accessible (without using #instVarNamed:) >>>>> inside >>>>> the method with the same name as the instance variable? >>>>> >>>>> eg: >>>>> >>>>> myInstVar >>>>> ^ myInstVar. >>>>> >>>>> Or can you reference an instance variable from a method that doesn't >>>>> have >>>>> the same name ? >>>>> >>>>> anotherMethod >>>>> ^ myInstVar. >>>>> >>>>> Can someone give me or point me to an example of accessing an instance >>>>> variable in Pharo Smalltalk? >>>>> >>>>> - James. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > > > -- > ClÃ©ment BÃ©ra > Pharo consortium engineer > https://clementbera.wordpress.com/ > BÃ¢timent B 40, avenue Halley 59650 Villeneuve d'Ascq > > >

Oct. 19, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Yet another Pharo in docker

by Herby VojÄÃk

Herby VojÄÃk wrote: > https://hub.docker.com/r/herbysk/pharo/ > Thanks to gotchas@dockerhub whose scripts I adapted.

Oct. 18, 2017

Yet another Pharo in docker

by Herby VojÄÃk

https://hub.docker.com/r/herbysk/pharo/

Oct. 18, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] iceberg - changing non-code files in the same commit as code

by Esteban Lorenzano

this is a bit hardcore :) but you can do: repo addFilesToIndex: { âpath/to/file/relative/to/repoâ } Esteban > On 18 Oct 2017, at 15:27, Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > this is maybe a bit advanced use case from Iceberg perspective, but quite basic from git perspective. > > Use case: > In the same commit where code has changed I want to update text file CHANGELOG.md. > > Right now I need to modify the file after the commit and then amend it (so it is in the same commit), but it would be nice to do everything from within Pharo. > > Thanks, > Peter

Oct. 18, 2017

iceberg - changing non-code files in the same commit as code

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

Hi, this is maybe a bit advanced use case from Iceberg perspective, but quite basic from git perspective. Use case: In the same commit where code has changed I want to update text file CHANGELOG.md. Right now I need to modify the file after the commit and then amend it (so it is in the same commit), but it would be nice to do everything from within Pharo. Thanks, Peter

Oct. 18, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] SpecColumnLayout not behaving as expected

by Steven R. Baker

You're right. Reformatted as one line it looks *way* more obvious. Thanks! -Steven On 18/10/17 10:45, Peter UhnÃ¡k wrote: > Try to think about is going on in the code, because then it is obvious > (I hope). > For example you do the following: > > column add: #sideBar; add:#listView. > > why do you think that adding items to a column would create columns? > In Spec, one add:s rows to column, and columns to row. > > If people are going to get regularly stack on this, we can certainly > change it. > > Peter > > > On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 10:23 PM, Steven R. Baker > <steven(a)stevenrbaker.com <mailto:steven@stevenrbaker.com>> wrote: > > Oh! > > I remember fighting with this last week too. Am I the only who who > struggled with that? If not, perhaps we could call #add: #addRow: ? > > -Steven > > > > On 17/10/17 18:00, Peter UhnÃ¡k wrote: >> Because it is the other way around: in the block ([ :col | ... ]) >> you are describing the content of the column. >> >> So what you are actually doing is you create a Column >> (SpecColumnLayout), inside which you create another column >> (newColumn), and to that column you add two rows (add:, add:). >> >> On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 4:32 PM, Steven R. Baker >> <steven(a)stevenrbaker.com <mailto:steven@stevenrbaker.com>> wrote: >> >> Heya folks, >> >> I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, I just don't know what it is. >> >> I have the following: >> >> defaultSpec >> Â Â Â ^ SpecColumnLayout composed >> Â Â Â Â Â Â newColumn: [ :col | >> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â col >> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â add: #sideBar; >> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â add: #listView ]; >> Â Â Â Â Â Â yourself >> >> In the resulting window, I get the widgets stacked one on top >> of the >> other, and I expected them to be next to each other (two >> columns in a row.) >> >> What am I missing? >> >> Thanks! >> >> -Steven >> >> >> > >

Oct. 18, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Techtalk today: AI

by Marcus Denker

Hi, The tech talk recording is now in the archive: http://pharo.org/TechTalk > On 17 Oct 2017, at 16:43, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > Hello! > The tech talk starts in 20 minutes (17h europe time). > > Slides (pdf) can be downloaded here <https://github.com/AgileArtificialIntelligence/AgileArtificialIntelligence.…>. > > Invite for Discord (for Q&A after): > > http://discord.gg/Sj2rhxn <http://discord.gg/Sj2rhxn> > The talk will be on Youtube, follow this link: > > https://www.youtube.com/c/AlexandreBergel/live <https://www.youtube.com/c/AlexandreBergel/live> >

Oct. 18, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and instance variables ...

by James Ladd

That said from memory I think it was Digitalk or Enfin that used to automatically generate accessors and mutators Sent from my Commodore 64 > On 18 Oct 2017, at 4:34 pm, Markus Stumptner <mst(a)cs.unisa.edu.au> wrote: > > It would break code all over the place... > >> On 18/10/2017 16:02, James Ladd wrote: >> What if accessors were generated but not mutators? >> >> Sent from my Commodore 64 >> >> On 18 Oct 2017, at 4:21 pm, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>>> On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 7:07 AM, James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> Hey David, >>>> >>>> If you could only access instance variables in the class that defined them and therefore only in a subclass via an accessor / mutator method w that be a big problem in your view? >>> >>> Yes. >>> >>> I don't want to have to define accessors, which are public, just to have the subclasses access the instance variables. >>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my Commodore 64 >>>> >>>> On 18 Oct 2017, at 2:41 pm, David Mason <dmason(a)ryerson.ca> wrote: >>>> >>>>> In Pharo, open a browser on OrderedCollection, then click "Variables" in the top left of the window and then "array"... if you scroll through you can see that mostly OrderedCollection methods use it, but some SortedCollection (a subclass) methods also use it. >>>>> >>>>> The model is similar to protected in Java (see http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/java/javaOO/accesscontrol.html ) except there is no "Package" column. >>>>> >>>>>> On 17 October 2017 at 23:30, James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> Please could you provide an example? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 2:16 PM, David Mason <dmason(a)ryerson.ca> wrote: >>>>>>> Any instance method in the class where the instance variable is defined or in a subclass can access the instance variable. Similarly for class methods to access class-side variables, and for class and instance methods to access class variables. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 17 October 2017 at 23:04, James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> Hello Pharo Users, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm wondering about instance variables for support in Redline Smalltalk and >>>>>>>> want to get my understanding straight. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Are instance variables only accessible (without using #instVarNamed:) inside >>>>>>>> the method with the same name as the instance variable? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> eg: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> myInstVar >>>>>>>> ^ myInstVar. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Or can you reference an instance variable from a method that doesn't have >>>>>>>> the same name ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> anotherMethod >>>>>>>> ^ myInstVar. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Can someone give me or point me to an example of accessing an instance >>>>>>>> variable in Pharo Smalltalk? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - James. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ClÃ©ment BÃ©ra >>> Pharo consortium engineer >>> https://clementbera.wordpress.com/ >>> BÃ¢timent B 40, avenue Halley 59650 Villeneuve d'Ascq >

Oct. 18, 2017

Cannot update GLMTabulator containing list with Separators

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

Hi, apparently it is not possible to update a GLMTabulator if it contains a list pane with separators. Tested in P6 & P7. ``` data := { { #one. #two. #three } asOrderedCollection. { #alpha. #beta } asOrderedCollection } asOrderedCollection. browser := GLMTabulator new. browser column: #list; column: #actions. browser transmit to: #list; andShow: [ :a | a fastList withSeparators ]. browser transmit to: #actions; andShow: [ :a | a actionList act: [ :actionList | data last add: #dynamic. browser update ] entitled: 'Add Item'; act: [ :actionList | data last remove: #dynamic ifAbsent: [ ]. browser update ] entitled: 'Remove Item'. ]. browser openOn: data. ``` [image: Inline image 1] Thanks, Peter

Oct. 18, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] SpecColumnLayout not behaving as expected

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

Try to think about is going on in the code, because then it is obvious (I hope). For example you do the following: column add: #sideBar; add:#listView. why do you think that adding items to a column would create columns? In Spec, one add:s rows to column, and columns to row. If people are going to get regularly stack on this, we can certainly change it. Peter On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 10:23 PM, Steven R. Baker <steven(a)stevenrbaker.com> wrote: > Oh! > > I remember fighting with this last week too. Am I the only who who > struggled with that? If not, perhaps we could call #add: #addRow: ? > > -Steven > > > > On 17/10/17 18:00, Peter UhnÃ¡k wrote: > > Because it is the other way around: in the block ([ :col | ... ]) you are > describing the content of the column. > > So what you are actually doing is you create a Column (SpecColumnLayout), > inside which you create another column (newColumn), and to that column you > add two rows (add:, add:). > > On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 4:32 PM, Steven R. Baker <steven(a)stevenrbaker.com> > wrote: > >> Heya folks, >> >> I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, I just don't know what it is. >> >> I have the following: >> >> defaultSpec >> ^ SpecColumnLayout composed >> newColumn: [ :col | >> col >> add: #sideBar; >> add: #listView ]; >> yourself >> >> In the resulting window, I get the widgets stacked one on top of the >> other, and I expected them to be next to each other (two columns in a >> row.) >> >> What am I missing? >> >> Thanks! >> >> -Steven >> >> >> > >

Oct. 18, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and instance variables ...

by Dimitris Chloupis

Well the method of the receiver can check for the type of the object from which you receive a message, technically you can restrict the access even to a particular instance object. You can enforce a ton of restrictions as the entire system is modifiable and live. On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 8:37 AM Prof. Andrew P. Black <black(a)cs.pdx.edu> wrote: > > On 18 Oct 2017, at 08:32 , James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > What if accessors were generated but not mutators? > > > The point is that, once a method exists, there is not way to restrict who > can send a message that will execute it. So if one were forces to generate > a reader method, or a writer method, just to give access to a subclass, > then *every* object n the system would also gain access. > > Andrew > > >

Oct. 18, 2017

DesktopManaker from Ctrl-D to Ctrl-M help needed!!

by Torsten Bergmann

> PD to the DesktopManager team: Your tool is really cool, thanks a lot; There is no team, just one person ;) Glad you like it. More infos can be found here: http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~TorstenBergmann/DesktopManager https://medium.com/concerning-pharo/multiple-desktops-for-pharo-5cbc46f3179f > nevertheless is not nice to hide the Do-It command Use CTRL+D twice in a playground to run the do it. This is already explained in detail here: http://lists.pharo.org/pipermail/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org/2017-September… Side note: ========== I now added also a CTRL + D followed by CTRL + L (âDesktop Logoâ to enable/disable Logo on Desktop) Have fun T.

Oct. 18, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and instance variables ...

by James Ladd

Good point - thank you Sent from my Commodore 64 > On 18 Oct 2017, at 4:36 pm, Prof. Andrew P. Black <black(a)cs.pdx.edu> wrote: > > >> On 18 Oct 2017, at 08:32 , James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> What if accessors were generated but not mutators? >> > > The point is that, once a method exists, there is not way to restrict who can send a message that will execute it. So if one were forces to generate a reader method, or a writer method, just to give access to a subclass, then every object n the system would also gain access. > > Andrew > >

Oct. 18, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and instance variables ...

by James Ladd

Good point thanks Sent from my Commodore 64 > On 18 Oct 2017, at 4:34 pm, Markus Stumptner <mst(a)cs.unisa.edu.au> wrote: > > It would break code all over the place... > >> On 18/10/2017 16:02, James Ladd wrote: >> What if accessors were generated but not mutators? >> >> Sent from my Commodore 64 >> >> On 18 Oct 2017, at 4:21 pm, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>>> On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 7:07 AM, James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> Hey David, >>>> >>>> If you could only access instance variables in the class that defined them and therefore only in a subclass via an accessor / mutator method w that be a big problem in your view? >>> >>> Yes. >>> >>> I don't want to have to define accessors, which are public, just to have the subclasses access the instance variables. >>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my Commodore 64 >>>> >>>> On 18 Oct 2017, at 2:41 pm, David Mason <dmason(a)ryerson.ca> wrote: >>>> >>>>> In Pharo, open a browser on OrderedCollection, then click "Variables" in the top left of the window and then "array"... if you scroll through you can see that mostly OrderedCollection methods use it, but some SortedCollection (a subclass) methods also use it. >>>>> >>>>> The model is similar to protected in Java (see http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/java/javaOO/accesscontrol.html ) except there is no "Package" column. >>>>> >>>>>> On 17 October 2017 at 23:30, James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> Please could you provide an example? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 2:16 PM, David Mason <dmason(a)ryerson.ca> wrote: >>>>>>> Any instance method in the class where the instance variable is defined or in a subclass can access the instance variable. Similarly for class methods to access class-side variables, and for class and instance methods to access class variables. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 17 October 2017 at 23:04, James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> Hello Pharo Users, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm wondering about instance variables for support in Redline Smalltalk and >>>>>>>> want to get my understanding straight. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Are instance variables only accessible (without using #instVarNamed:) inside >>>>>>>> the method with the same name as the instance variable? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> eg: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> myInstVar >>>>>>>> ^ myInstVar. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Or can you reference an instance variable from a method that doesn't have >>>>>>>> the same name ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> anotherMethod >>>>>>>> ^ myInstVar. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Can someone give me or point me to an example of accessing an instance >>>>>>>> variable in Pharo Smalltalk? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - James. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ClÃ©ment BÃ©ra >>> Pharo consortium engineer >>> https://clementbera.wordpress.com/ >>> BÃ¢timent B 40, avenue Halley 59650 Villeneuve d'Ascq >

Oct. 18, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and instance variables ...

by Prof. Andrew P. Black

> On 18 Oct 2017, at 08:32 , James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > What if accessors were generated but not mutators? > The point is that, once a method exists, there is not way to restrict who can send a message that will execute it. So if one were forces to generate a reader method, or a writer method, just to give access to a subclass, then every object n the system would also gain access. Andrew

Oct. 18, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and instance variables ...

by Markus Stumptner

It would break code all over the place... On 18/10/2017 16:02, James Ladd wrote: > What if accessors were generated but not mutators? > > Sent from my Commodore 64 > > On 18 Oct 2017, at 4:21 pm, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com > <mailto:bera.clement@gmail.com>> wrote: > >> >> >> On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 7:07 AM, James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com >> <mailto:ladd.james@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Hey David, >> >> If you could only access instance variables in the class that >> defined them and therefore only in a subclass via an accessor / >> mutator method w that be a big problem in your view? >> >> >> Yes. >> >> I don't want to have to define accessors, which are public, just to >> have the subclasses access the instance variables. >> >> >> Sent from my Commodore 64 >> >> On 18 Oct 2017, at 2:41 pm, David Mason <dmason(a)ryerson.ca >> <mailto:dmason@ryerson.ca>> wrote: >> >>> In Pharo, open a browser on OrderedCollection, then click >>> "Variables" in the top left of the window and then "array"... if >>> you scroll through you can see that mostly OrderedCollection >>> methods use it, but some SortedCollection (a subclass) methods >>> also use it. >>> >>> The model is similar to protected in Java (see >>> http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/java/javaOO/accesscontrol.html >>> <http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/java/javaOO/accesscontrol.html> >>> ) except there is no "Package" column. >>> >>> On 17 October 2017 at 23:30, James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com >>> <mailto:ladd.james@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Please could you provide an example? >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 2:16 PM, David Mason >>> <dmason(a)ryerson.ca <mailto:dmason@ryerson.ca>> wrote: >>> >>> Any instance method in the class where the instance >>> variable is defined or in a subclass can access the >>> instance variable. Similarly for class methods to access >>> class-side variables, and for class and instance methods >>> to access class variables. >>> >>> On 17 October 2017 at 23:04, James Ladd >>> <ladd.james(a)gmail.com <mailto:ladd.james@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Hello Pharo Users, >>> >>> I'm wondering about instance variables for support >>> in Redline Smalltalk and >>> want to get my understanding straight. >>> >>> Are instance variables only accessible (without >>> using #instVarNamed:) inside >>> the method with the same name as the instance variable? >>> >>> eg: >>> >>> myInstVar >>> ^ myInstVar. >>> >>> Or can you reference an instance variable from a >>> method that doesn't have >>> the same name ? >>> >>> anotherMethod >>> ^ myInstVar. >>> >>> Can someone give me or point me to an example of >>> accessing an instance >>> variable in Pharo Smalltalk? >>> >>> - James. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sent from: >>> http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >>> <http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> ClÃ©ment BÃ©ra >> Pharo consortium engineer >> https://clementbera.wordpress.com/ >> BÃ¢timent B 40, avenue Halley 59650 Villeneuve d'Ascq

Oct. 18, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and instance variables ...

by James Ladd

What if accessors were generated but not mutators? Sent from my Commodore 64 > On 18 Oct 2017, at 4:21 pm, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 7:07 AM, James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Hey David, >> >> If you could only access instance variables in the class that defined them and therefore only in a subclass via an accessor / mutator method w that be a big problem in your view? > > Yes. > > I don't want to have to define accessors, which are public, just to have the subclasses access the instance variables. > >> >> Sent from my Commodore 64 >> >>> On 18 Oct 2017, at 2:41 pm, David Mason <dmason(a)ryerson.ca> wrote: >>> >>> In Pharo, open a browser on OrderedCollection, then click "Variables" in the top left of the window and then "array"... if you scroll through you can see that mostly OrderedCollection methods use it, but some SortedCollection (a subclass) methods also use it. >>> >>> The model is similar to protected in Java (see http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/java/javaOO/accesscontrol.html ) except there is no "Package" column. >>> >>>> On 17 October 2017 at 23:30, James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> Please could you provide an example? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 2:16 PM, David Mason <dmason(a)ryerson.ca> wrote: >>>>> Any instance method in the class where the instance variable is defined or in a subclass can access the instance variable. Similarly for class methods to access class-side variables, and for class and instance methods to access class variables. >>>>> >>>>>> On 17 October 2017 at 23:04, James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> Hello Pharo Users, >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm wondering about instance variables for support in Redline Smalltalk and >>>>>> want to get my understanding straight. >>>>>> >>>>>> Are instance variables only accessible (without using #instVarNamed:) inside >>>>>> the method with the same name as the instance variable? >>>>>> >>>>>> eg: >>>>>> >>>>>> myInstVar >>>>>> ^ myInstVar. >>>>>> >>>>>> Or can you reference an instance variable from a method that doesn't have >>>>>> the same name ? >>>>>> >>>>>> anotherMethod >>>>>> ^ myInstVar. >>>>>> >>>>>> Can someone give me or point me to an example of accessing an instance >>>>>> variable in Pharo Smalltalk? >>>>>> >>>>>> - James. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> > > > > -- > ClÃ©ment BÃ©ra > Pharo consortium engineer > https://clementbera.wordpress.com/ > BÃ¢timent B 40, avenue Halley 59650 Villeneuve d'Ascq

Oct. 18, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and instance variables ...

by ClÃ©ment Bera

On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 7:07 AM, James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hey David, > > If you could only access instance variables in the class that defined them > and therefore only in a subclass via an accessor / mutator method w that be > a big problem in your view? > Yes. I don't want to have to define accessors, which are public, just to have the subclasses access the instance variables. > > Sent from my Commodore 64 > > On 18 Oct 2017, at 2:41 pm, David Mason <dmason(a)ryerson.ca> wrote: > > In Pharo, open a browser on OrderedCollection, then click "Variables" in > the top left of the window and then "array"... if you scroll through you > can see that mostly OrderedCollection methods use it, but some > SortedCollection (a subclass) methods also use it. > > The model is similar to protected in Java (see http://docs.oracle.com/ > javase/tutorial/java/javaOO/accesscontrol.html ) except there is no > "Package" column. > > On 17 October 2017 at 23:30, James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Please could you provide an example? >> >> >> >> On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 2:16 PM, David Mason <dmason(a)ryerson.ca> wrote: >> >>> Any instance method in the class where the instance variable is defined >>> or in a subclass can access the instance variable. Similarly for class >>> methods to access class-side variables, and for class and instance methods >>> to access class variables. >>> >>> On 17 October 2017 at 23:04, James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello Pharo Users, >>>> >>>> I'm wondering about instance variables for support in Redline Smalltalk >>>> and >>>> want to get my understanding straight. >>>> >>>> Are instance variables only accessible (without using #instVarNamed:) >>>> inside >>>> the method with the same name as the instance variable? >>>> >>>> eg: >>>> >>>> myInstVar >>>> ^ myInstVar. >>>> >>>> Or can you reference an instance variable from a method that doesn't >>>> have >>>> the same name ? >>>> >>>> anotherMethod >>>> ^ myInstVar. >>>> >>>> Can someone give me or point me to an example of accessing an instance >>>> variable in Pharo Smalltalk? >>>> >>>> - James. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >>>> >>>> >>> >> > -- ClÃ©ment BÃ©ra Pharo consortium engineer https://clementbera.wordpress.com/ BÃ¢timent B 40, avenue Halley 59650 Villeneuve d'Ascq

Oct. 18, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and instance variables ...

by James Ladd

Hey David, If you could only access instance variables in the class that defined them and therefore only in a subclass via an accessor / mutator method w that be a big problem in your view? Sent from my Commodore 64 > On 18 Oct 2017, at 2:41 pm, David Mason <dmason(a)ryerson.ca> wrote: > > In Pharo, open a browser on OrderedCollection, then click "Variables" in the top left of the window and then "array"... if you scroll through you can see that mostly OrderedCollection methods use it, but some SortedCollection (a subclass) methods also use it. > > The model is similar to protected in Java (see http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/java/javaOO/accesscontrol.html ) except there is no "Package" column. > >> On 17 October 2017 at 23:30, James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Please could you provide an example? >> >> >> >>> On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 2:16 PM, David Mason <dmason(a)ryerson.ca> wrote: >>> Any instance method in the class where the instance variable is defined or in a subclass can access the instance variable. Similarly for class methods to access class-side variables, and for class and instance methods to access class variables. >>> >>>> On 17 October 2017 at 23:04, James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> Hello Pharo Users, >>>> >>>> I'm wondering about instance variables for support in Redline Smalltalk and >>>> want to get my understanding straight. >>>> >>>> Are instance variables only accessible (without using #instVarNamed:) inside >>>> the method with the same name as the instance variable? >>>> >>>> eg: >>>> >>>> myInstVar >>>> ^ myInstVar. >>>> >>>> Or can you reference an instance variable from a method that doesn't have >>>> the same name ? >>>> >>>> anotherMethod >>>> ^ myInstVar. >>>> >>>> Can someone give me or point me to an example of accessing an instance >>>> variable in Pharo Smalltalk? >>>> >>>> - James. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >>>> >>> >> >

Oct. 18, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and instance variables ...

by James Ladd

Ah that is very helpful - thank you. addFirst: newObject "Add newObject to the beginning of the receiver. Answer newObject." firstIndex = 1 ifTrue: [self makeRoomAtFirst]. firstIndex := firstIndex - 1. *array* at: firstIndex put: newObject. ^ newObject On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 2:41 PM, David Mason <dmason(a)ryerson.ca> wrote: > In Pharo, open a browser on OrderedCollection, then click "Variables" in > the top left of the window and then "array"... if you scroll through you > can see that mostly OrderedCollection methods use it, but some > SortedCollection (a subclass) methods also use it. > > The model is similar to protected in Java (see http://docs.oracle.com/ > javase/tutorial/java/javaOO/accesscontrol.html ) except there is no > "Package" column. > > On 17 October 2017 at 23:30, James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Please could you provide an example? >> >> >> >> On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 2:16 PM, David Mason <dmason(a)ryerson.ca> wrote: >> >>> Any instance method in the class where the instance variable is defined >>> or in a subclass can access the instance variable. Similarly for class >>> methods to access class-side variables, and for class and instance methods >>> to access class variables. >>> >>> On 17 October 2017 at 23:04, James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello Pharo Users, >>>> >>>> I'm wondering about instance variables for support in Redline Smalltalk >>>> and >>>> want to get my understanding straight. >>>> >>>> Are instance variables only accessible (without using #instVarNamed:) >>>> inside >>>> the method with the same name as the instance variable? >>>> >>>> eg: >>>> >>>> myInstVar >>>> ^ myInstVar. >>>> >>>> Or can you reference an instance variable from a method that doesn't >>>> have >>>> the same name ? >>>> >>>> anotherMethod >>>> ^ myInstVar. >>>> >>>> Can someone give me or point me to an example of accessing an instance >>>> variable in Pharo Smalltalk? >>>> >>>> - James. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >>>> >>>> >>> >> >

Oct. 18, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and instance variables ...

by David Mason

In Pharo, open a browser on OrderedCollection, then click "Variables" in the top left of the window and then "array"... if you scroll through you can see that mostly OrderedCollection methods use it, but some SortedCollection (a subclass) methods also use it. The model is similar to protected in Java (see http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/java/javaOO/accesscontrol.html ) except there is no "Package" column. On 17 October 2017 at 23:30, James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Please could you provide an example? > > > > On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 2:16 PM, David Mason <dmason(a)ryerson.ca> wrote: > >> Any instance method in the class where the instance variable is defined >> or in a subclass can access the instance variable. Similarly for class >> methods to access class-side variables, and for class and instance methods >> to access class variables. >> >> On 17 October 2017 at 23:04, James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hello Pharo Users, >>> >>> I'm wondering about instance variables for support in Redline Smalltalk >>> and >>> want to get my understanding straight. >>> >>> Are instance variables only accessible (without using #instVarNamed:) >>> inside >>> the method with the same name as the instance variable? >>> >>> eg: >>> >>> myInstVar >>> ^ myInstVar. >>> >>> Or can you reference an instance variable from a method that doesn't have >>> the same name ? >>> >>> anotherMethod >>> ^ myInstVar. >>> >>> Can someone give me or point me to an example of accessing an instance >>> variable in Pharo Smalltalk? >>> >>> - James. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >>> >>> >> >

Oct. 18, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and instance variables ...

by James Ladd

Please could you provide an example? On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 2:16 PM, David Mason <dmason(a)ryerson.ca> wrote: > Any instance method in the class where the instance variable is defined or > in a subclass can access the instance variable. Similarly for class > methods to access class-side variables, and for class and instance methods > to access class variables. > > On 17 October 2017 at 23:04, James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hello Pharo Users, >> >> I'm wondering about instance variables for support in Redline Smalltalk >> and >> want to get my understanding straight. >> >> Are instance variables only accessible (without using #instVarNamed:) >> inside >> the method with the same name as the instance variable? >> >> eg: >> >> myInstVar >> ^ myInstVar. >> >> Or can you reference an instance variable from a method that doesn't have >> the same name ? >> >> anotherMethod >> ^ myInstVar. >> >> Can someone give me or point me to an example of accessing an instance >> variable in Pharo Smalltalk? >> >> - James. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >> >> >

Oct. 18, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and instance variables ...

by David Mason

Any instance method in the class where the instance variable is defined or in a subclass can access the instance variable. Similarly for class methods to access class-side variables, and for class and instance methods to access class variables. On 17 October 2017 at 23:04, James Ladd <ladd.james(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hello Pharo Users, > > I'm wondering about instance variables for support in Redline Smalltalk and > want to get my understanding straight. > > Are instance variables only accessible (without using #instVarNamed:) > inside > the method with the same name as the instance variable? > > eg: > > myInstVar > ^ myInstVar. > > Or can you reference an instance variable from a method that doesn't have > the same name ? > > anotherMethod > ^ myInstVar. > > Can someone give me or point me to an example of accessing an instance > variable in Pharo Smalltalk? > > - James. > > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > >

Oct. 18, 2017

Pharo and instance variables ...

by James Ladd

Hello Pharo Users, I'm wondering about instance variables for support in Redline Smalltalk and want to get my understanding straight. Are instance variables only accessible (without using #instVarNamed:) inside the method with the same name as the instance variable? eg: myInstVar ^ myInstVar. Or can you reference an instance variable from a method that doesn't have the same name ? anotherMethod ^ myInstVar. Can someone give me or point me to an example of accessing an instance variable in Pharo Smalltalk? - James. -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Oct. 18, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] NeoJSONObject convenience method hint

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Hi, > On 17 Oct 2017, at 11:46, Herby VojÄÃk <herby(a)mailbox.sk> wrote: > > newFromAccessors: aCollection ofObject: anObject > "Performs supplied accessors on anObject > and returns my instance with accessor -> result pairs." > > ^ self newFrom: (aCollection collect: [ :each | each -> (anObject perform: each) ]) > > "I use it for example in this piece of code: > NeoJSONObject > newFromAccessors: #(good bad) > ofObject: self dao sumOfAllAnswers > " If (but see further) I would add this kind of functionality, I would go for the following methods in a 'copying' protocol on the instance side (in analogy with Object>>#copyFrom:) : NeoJSONObject>>#copyFrom: anObject accessors: accessors accessors do: [ :each | self at: each put: (anObject perform: each) ] NeoJSONObject>>#copyFrom: anObject instVarNames: instVarNames instVarNames do: [ :each | self at: each put: (anObject instVarNamed: each) ] NeoJSONObject>>#copyFrom: aDictionary keys: keys keys do: [ :each | self at: each put: (aDictionary at: each) ] NeoJSONObject>>#copyAllInstVarsFrom: anObject self copyFrom: anObject instVarNames: anObject class allInstVarNames Which would allow you to write stuff like: NeoJSONObject new copyFrom: NeoJSONTestObject2 example1 accessors: #(id height width). NeoJSONObject new copyFrom: NeoJSONTestObject2 example1 instVarNames: #(id height width). NeoJSONObject new copyAllInstVarsFrom: NeoJSONTestObject2 example1. NeoJSONObject new copyFrom: { #id->1. #height->200. #width->100 } asDictionary keys: #(width height). However, there are a couple of reasons why I am not so enthusiastic. - You want conversions to/from NeoJSONObject and your domain objects, by creating one for the other, that is exactly why mapping exists: to do this without copying (i.e. directly & more efficiently) - Mapping is also better because it can be applied to values as well (recursively) - I would rather put the responsibility of conversion to the domain objects (say in #toNeoJSONObject and #fromNeoJSONObject:) - I would prefer NeoJSONObject to keep very simple Just some comments, thinking aloud. Sven

Oct. 17, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] SpecColumnLayout not behaving as expected

by Steven R. Baker

Oh! I remember fighting with this last week too. Am I the only who who struggled with that? If not, perhaps we could call #add: #addRow: ? -Steven On 17/10/17 18:00, Peter UhnÃ¡k wrote: > Because it is the other way around: in the block ([ :col | ... ]) you > are describing the content of the column. > > So what you are actually doing is you create a Column > (SpecColumnLayout), inside which you create another column > (newColumn), and to that column you add two rows (add:, add:). > > On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 4:32 PM, Steven R. Baker > <steven(a)stevenrbaker.com <mailto:steven@stevenrbaker.com>> wrote: > > Heya folks, > > I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, I just don't know what it is. > > I have the following: > > defaultSpec > Â Â Â ^ SpecColumnLayout composed > Â Â Â Â Â Â newColumn: [ :col | > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â col > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â add: #sideBar; > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â add: #listView ]; > Â Â Â Â Â Â yourself > > In the resulting window, I get the widgets stacked one on top of the > other, and I expected them to be next to each other (two columns > in a row.) > > What am I missing? > > Thanks! > > -Steven > > >

Oct. 17, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] SpecColumnLayout not behaving as expected

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

Because it is the other way around: in the block ([ :col | ... ]) you are describing the content of the column. So what you are actually doing is you create a Column (SpecColumnLayout), inside which you create another column (newColumn), and to that column you add two rows (add:, add:). On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 4:32 PM, Steven R. Baker <steven(a)stevenrbaker.com> wrote: > Heya folks, > > I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, I just don't know what it is. > > I have the following: > > defaultSpec > ^ SpecColumnLayout composed > newColumn: [ :col | > col > add: #sideBar; > add: #listView ]; > yourself > > In the resulting window, I get the widgets stacked one on top of the > other, and I expected them to be next to each other (two columns in a row.) > > What am I missing? > > Thanks! > > -Steven > > >

Oct. 17, 2017

Techtalk today: AI

by Marcus Denker

Hello! The tech talk starts in 20 minutes (17h europe time). Slides (pdf) can be downloaded here <https://github.com/AgileArtificialIntelligence/AgileArtificialIntelligence.…>. Invite for Discord (for Q&A after): http://discord.gg/Sj2rhxn <http://discord.gg/Sj2rhxn> The talk will be on Youtube, follow this link: https://www.youtube.com/c/AlexandreBergel/live <https://www.youtube.com/c/AlexandreBergel/live>

Oct. 17, 2017

SpecColumnLayout not behaving as expected

by Steven R. Baker

Heya folks, I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, I just don't know what it is. I have the following: defaultSpec Â Â Â ^ SpecColumnLayout composed Â Â Â Â Â Â newColumn: [ :col | Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â col Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â add: #sideBar; Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â add: #listView ]; Â Â Â Â Â Â yourself In the resulting window, I get the widgets stacked one on top of the other, and I expected them to be next to each other (two columns in a row.) What am I missing? Thanks! -Steven

Oct. 17, 2017

[ANN] Pharo Consortium New Bronze Member: OSOCO

by Marcus Denker

The Pharo Consortium is very happy to announce that OSOCO has joined the Consortium as a Bronze Member. About - OSOCO: https://osoco.es - Pharo Consortium: http://consortium.pharo.org The goal of the Pharo Consortium is to allow companies and institutions to support the ongoing development and future of Pharo. Individuals can support Pharo via the Pharo Association: - http://association.pharo.org

Oct. 17, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Mocketry willGenerateValueFrom: (was: Re: How do you mock http?)

by Denis Kudriashov

2017-10-17 14:49 GMT+02:00 Herby VojÄÃk <herby(a)mailbox.sk>: > Denis Kudriashov wrote: > >> I would hide the tricks even more: >> >> ZnClient stubRequests: [ :request | >> request uri = >> ('https://onesignal.com/api/v1/players/{1}?app_id={2} >> <https://onesignal.com/api/v1/players/%7B1%7D?app_id=%7B2%7D>' format: { >> self uidy: 'Q7'. appId }) asZnUrl >> and: [ #(GET HEAD) includes: request method ] ] >> byResponse: [ :request | ZnResponse ok: (ZnEntity json: '{}') ] ]. >> > > This would be nice, but it would need cooperation of Zinc (unless I hide > mocketry use under extension method). > Why not? I think it could be a good library. Try to publish it as is. Then people can contribute with their own cases. I remember other people looked for similar tool in past. So it could be good start. > > And maybe with set of more simple cases: >> >> ZnClient >> stubGET: ('https://onesignal.com/api/v1/players/{1}?app_id={2} >> <https://onesignal.com/api/v1/players/%7B1%7D?app_id=%7B2%7D>' format: { >> self uidy: 'Q7'. appId }) asZnUrl >> byResponse: [ :request | ZnResponse ok: (ZnEntity json: '{}') ] ]. >> > > Well, I actually send HEAD in production code, as I only need to know if > it is 2xx or 4xx (of course using #isSuccess and not testing status code > myself) and I want be nice. But GET is good as well. Now what? :-) > > Or better: >> >> ZnClient >> stubGET: ('https://onesignal.com/api/v1/players' asZnUrl / (self >> uidy: 'Q7') >> withParams: {'app_id' -> appId } >> byResponse: [ :request | ZnResponse ok: (ZnEntity json: '{}') ] ]. >> > > Yes, we're getting where nock library is on node. I didn't want to make > full http mocking dsl (would be nice, though). You can be the man who starts the process :). Not necessary to implement full version. > Actually asked if there is one is the original thread. :-) > > Herby > > >> >> >> 2017-10-17 14:22 GMT+02:00 Herby VojÄÃk <herby(a)mailbox.sk >> <mailto:herby@mailbox.sk>>: >> >> Denis Kudriashov wrote: >> >> Hi Herby. >> >> There is message #will: which accepts the block with possible >> arguments >> (if needed). >> >> ZnClient stub new will: [ ZnMockClient ...] >> >> But generally your approach looks bad to me. You put too many >> details on >> your tests which just duplicate Zinc API used in the domain code. >> It >> makes tests brittle and tightly coupled. And they looks quite >> unreadable. >> >> >> BTW, made it shorter and probably more readable as a result (by also >> shortening the test condition): >> >> ZnClient stub new will: [ ZnMockClient >> whenRequest: [ :request | >> request uri = >> ('https://onesignal.com/api/v1/players/{1}?app_id={2} >> <https://onesignal.com/api/v1/players/%7B1%7D?app_id=%7B2%7D>' >> format: { self uidy: 'Q7'. appId }) asZnUrl >> and: [ #(GET HEAD) includes: request method ] ] >> thenResponse: [ :request | ZnResponse ok: (ZnEntity json: '{}') >> ] ]. >> >> The reason why I could not test uri as is, is Zinc adding ':443' to >> it. But as mentioned, the previous was very unreadable; with asZnUrl >> it is probably better. >> >> Herby >> >> >> >

Oct. 17, 2017

[ANN] feenk upgraded to Gold Membership

by Marcus Denker

The Pharo Consortium is very happy to announce that feenk has upgraded to Gold Member status. About - feenk: http://feenk.com - Pharo Consortium: http://consortium.pharo.org The goal of the Pharo Consortium is to allow companies and institutions to support the ongoing development and future of Pharo. Individuals can support Pharo via the Pharo Association: http://association.pharo.org

Oct. 17, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Mocketry willGenerateValueFrom: (was: Re: How do you mock http?)

by Herby VojÄÃk

Denis Kudriashov wrote: > I would hide the tricks even more: > > ZnClient stubRequests: [ :request | > request uri = > ('https://onesignal.com/api/v1/players/{1}?app_id={2} > <https://onesignal.com/api/v1/players/%7B1%7D?app_id=%7B2%7D>' format: { > self uidy: 'Q7'. appId }) asZnUrl > and: [ #(GET HEAD) includes: request method ] ] > byResponse: [ :request | ZnResponse ok: (ZnEntity json: '{}') ] ]. This would be nice, but it would need cooperation of Zinc (unless I hide mocketry use under extension method). > And maybe with set of more simple cases: > > ZnClient > stubGET: ('https://onesignal.com/api/v1/players/{1}?app_id={2} > <https://onesignal.com/api/v1/players/%7B1%7D?app_id=%7B2%7D>' format: { > self uidy: 'Q7'. appId }) asZnUrl > byResponse: [ :request | ZnResponse ok: (ZnEntity json: '{}') ] ]. Well, I actually send HEAD in production code, as I only need to know if it is 2xx or 4xx (of course using #isSuccess and not testing status code myself) and I want be nice. But GET is good as well. Now what? :-) > Or better: > > ZnClient > stubGET: ('https://onesignal.com/api/v1/players' asZnUrl / (self > uidy: 'Q7') > withParams: {'app_id' -> appId } > byResponse: [ :request | ZnResponse ok: (ZnEntity json: '{}') ] ]. Yes, we're getting where nock library is on node. I didn't want to make full http mocking dsl (would be nice, though). Actually asked if there is one is the original thread. :-) Herby > > > > 2017-10-17 14:22 GMT+02:00 Herby VojÄÃk <herby(a)mailbox.sk > <mailto:herby@mailbox.sk>>: > > Denis Kudriashov wrote: > > Hi Herby. > > There is message #will: which accepts the block with possible > arguments > (if needed). > > ZnClient stub new will: [ ZnMockClient ...] > > But generally your approach looks bad to me. You put too many > details on > your tests which just duplicate Zinc API used in the domain code. It > makes tests brittle and tightly coupled. And they looks quite > unreadable. > > > BTW, made it shorter and probably more readable as a result (by also > shortening the test condition): > > ZnClient stub new will: [ ZnMockClient > whenRequest: [ :request | > request uri = > ('https://onesignal.com/api/v1/players/{1}?app_id={2} > <https://onesignal.com/api/v1/players/%7B1%7D?app_id=%7B2%7D>' > format: { self uidy: 'Q7'. appId }) asZnUrl > and: [ #(GET HEAD) includes: request method ] ] > thenResponse: [ :request | ZnResponse ok: (ZnEntity json: '{}') > ] ]. > > The reason why I could not test uri as is, is Zinc adding ':443' to > it. But as mentioned, the previous was very unreadable; with asZnUrl > it is probably better. > > Herby > >

Oct. 17, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Roassal2 in recent Pharo 7 causes DNU #asTraitComposition

by Alexandre Bergel

Hi! How can I update GT Example? I have produced a new version of the configuration ConfigurationOfRoassal2-AlexandreBergel.115 It loads the latest version of Roassal2GT. Does this solve the problem? Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > On Oct 17, 2017, at 8:58 AM, Andrei Chis <chisvasileandrei(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > @Alexandre I can make a new stable version with the current version of roassal + gt examples > >

Oct. 17, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Mocketry willGenerateValueFrom: (was: Re: How do you mock http?)

by Denis Kudriashov

I would hide the tricks even more: ZnClient stubRequests: [ :request | request uri = ('https://onesignal.com/api/v1/players/{1}?app_id={2}' format: { self uidy: 'Q7'. appId }) asZnUrl and: [ #(GET HEAD) includes: request method ] ] byResponse: [ :request | ZnResponse ok: (ZnEntity json: '{}') ] ]. And maybe with set of more simple cases: ZnClient stubGET: ('https://onesignal.com/api/v1/players/{1}?app_id={2}' format: { self uidy: 'Q7'. appId }) asZnUrl byResponse: [ :request | ZnResponse ok: (ZnEntity json: '{}') ] ]. Or better: ZnClient stubGET: ('https://onesignal.com/api/v1/players' asZnUrl / (self uidy: 'Q7') withParams: {'app_id' -> appId } byResponse: [ :request | ZnResponse ok: (ZnEntity json: '{}') ] ]. 2017-10-17 14:22 GMT+02:00 Herby VojÄÃk <herby(a)mailbox.sk>: > Denis Kudriashov wrote: > >> Hi Herby. >> >> There is message #will: which accepts the block with possible arguments >> (if needed). >> >> ZnClient stub new will: [ ZnMockClient ...] >> >> But generally your approach looks bad to me. You put too many details on >> your tests which just duplicate Zinc API used in the domain code. It >> makes tests brittle and tightly coupled. And they looks quite unreadable. >> > > BTW, made it shorter and probably more readable as a result (by also > shortening the test condition): > > ZnClient stub new will: [ ZnMockClient > whenRequest: [ :request | > request uri = ('https://onesignal.com/api/v1/players/{1}?app_id={2}' > format: { self uidy: 'Q7'. appId }) asZnUrl > and: [ #(GET HEAD) includes: request method ] ] > thenResponse: [ :request | ZnResponse ok: (ZnEntity json: '{}') ] ]. > > The reason why I could not test uri as is, is Zinc adding ':443' to it. > But as mentioned, the previous was very unreadable; with asZnUrl it is > probably better. > > Herby >

Oct. 17, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] How do you mock http?

by Herby VojÄÃk

Herby VojÄÃk wrote: > Hello! > > I felt the need to mock http api (like nock in node, that is, mock http > request-response itself on low-level part, leaving aside the question of > what wrapper / library one uses to get to that http; in node it mocks > basic http layer, here I tackled ZnClient), but struggled for a time how > to grasp it. Finally I used something like this (with help of Mocketry, > `1 to: 10` to mean "enough to actually be used even if there are more > unrelated uses", it could as well be `1 to: 100`): > > ZnClient stub new willReturnValueFrom: > ((1 to: 10) collect: [ :i | ZnMockClient > whenRequest: [ :request | > { request uri scheme. request uri authority. request uri > pathPrintString. request uri query associations asSet } > = { #https. 'onesignal.com'. '/api/v1/players/{1}' format: { UUID > fromString36: 'Q7' }. { 'app_id' -> appId } asSet } > and: [ #(GET HEAD) includes: request method ] ] > thenResponse: [ :request | ZnResponse ok: (ZnEntity json: '{}') ] ]). Actually, cleaned it up a bit, now I use shorter: ZnClient stub new will: [ ZnMockClient whenRequest: [ :request | request uri = ('https://onesignal.com/api/v1/players/{1}?app_id={2}' format: { UUID fromString36: 'Q7'. appId }) asZnUrl and: [ #(GET HEAD) includes: request method ] ] thenResponse: [ :request | ZnResponse ok: (ZnEntity json: '{}') ] ]. > with the help of this class (garbled utf not my fault, iceberg metacello > integration does it): > > 'From Pharo6.0 of 13 May 2016 [Latest update: #60512] on 17 October 2017 > at 12:05:38.908634 pm'! > ZnClient subclass: #ZnMockClient > instanceVariableNames: 'conditionBlock responseBlock' > classVariableNames: '' > poolDictionaries: '' > category: 'Towergame-Tests'! > !ZnMockClient commentStamp: 'HerbyVojcik 10/16/2017 16:43' prior: 0! > I am a mock ZnClient. > > I am created with ZnMockClient whenRequest: whenBlock thenResponse: > thenBlock. > > Upon execution of the request, when (whenBlock cull: request) is true, > response is set to (thenBlock cull: request). Otherwise, behaviour is > delegated to super.! > > > !ZnMockClient methodsFor: 'accessing' stamp: 'HerbertVojÃÂÃÂk 10/17/2017 > 12:00:27'! > conditionBlock > ^ conditionBlock! ! > > !ZnMockClient methodsFor: 'accessing' stamp: 'HerbertVojÃÂÃÂk 10/17/2017 > 12:00:27'! > responseBlock: anObject > responseBlock := anObject! ! > > !ZnMockClient methodsFor: 'accessing' stamp: 'HerbertVojÃÂÃÂk 10/17/2017 > 12:00:27'! > conditionBlock: anObject > conditionBlock := anObject! ! > > !ZnMockClient methodsFor: 'accessing' stamp: 'HerbertVojÃÂÃÂk 10/17/2017 > 12:00:27'! > responseBlock > ^ responseBlock! ! > > > !ZnMockClient methodsFor: 'private protocol' stamp: 'HerbertVojÃÂÃÂk > 10/17/2017 12:00:27'! > executeRequestResponse > ^ (self conditionBlock cull: self request) > ifTrue: [ response := self responseBlock cull: self request. response > contents ] > ifFalse: [ super executeRequestResponse ]! ! > > "-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- "! > > ZnMockClient class > instanceVariableNames: ''! > > !ZnMockClient class methodsFor: 'instance creation' stamp: > 'HerbertVojÃÂÃÂk 10/17/2017 12:00:27'! > whenRequest: aBlock thenResponse: anotherBlock > ^ self new > conditionBlock: aBlock; > responseBlock: anotherBlock; > yourself! ! > > Question 1: Is there a better way? > > Question 2: If not, would ZnMockClient be good addition to Zinc itself, > to ease testing for others? > > Herby >

Oct. 17, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Mocketry willGenerateValueFrom: (was: Re: How do you mock http?)

by Herby VojÄÃk

Denis Kudriashov wrote: > Hi Herby. > > There is message #will: which accepts the block with possible arguments > (if needed). > > ZnClient stub new will: [ ZnMockClient ...] > > But generally your approach looks bad to me. You put too many details on > your tests which just duplicate Zinc API used in the domain code. It > makes tests brittle and tightly coupled. And they looks quite unreadable. BTW, made it shorter and probably more readable as a result (by also shortening the test condition): ZnClient stub new will: [ ZnMockClient whenRequest: [ :request | request uri = ('https://onesignal.com/api/v1/players/{1}?app_id={2}' format: { self uidy: 'Q7'. appId }) asZnUrl and: [ #(GET HEAD) includes: request method ] ] thenResponse: [ :request | ZnResponse ok: (ZnEntity json: '{}') ] ]. The reason why I could not test uri as is, is Zinc adding ':443' to it. But as mentioned, the previous was very unreadable; with asZnUrl it is probably better. Herby

Oct. 17, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Roassal2 in recent Pharo 7 causes DNU #asTraitComposition

by Alistair Grant

Hi Andrei, On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 01:58:22PM +0200, Andrei Chis wrote: > > > On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 1:04 PM, Alistair Grant <akgrant0710(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 09:33:39AM +0000, Alistair Grant wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 06:28:05AM +0000, Alistair Grant wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > > > I'm attempting to load Roassal2 in to Pharo7 and am getting: > > > > > > UndefinedObject(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand: #asTraitComposition > > > > > > > > > It can be reproduced in a clean Pharo7 image, e.g. > > > Pharo7.0-32bit-d1b0e3e.image (downloaded 16 Oct 2017), and executing: > > > > > > Gofer it > > > smalltalkhubUser: 'ObjectProfile' project: 'Roassal2'; > > > configurationOf: 'Roassal2'; > > > loadStable. > > > > > > > > > OS: Ubuntu 16.04. > > > > > > I last rebuilt my image on 3 October without any problems. > > > > > > Any suggestions? I suspect the combination of Monticello and Traits > > > will take me quite a while to figure out. > > > > This could simply be an ordering issue, i.e. maybe Monticello / > > Metacello needs to ensure that the traits are loaded before the classes. > > > > Presumably at some point during the load there is a list of classes that > > are going to be loaded. If someone can point me to the correct location > > it will save some time tracking it down. > > OK, it looks like Roassal has gone through quite a bit of development in > the last couple of months, and that TGTExampleIcon is simply missing > from the repository > (https://github.com/feenkcom/gtoolkit-examples/tree/master/src/ > GToolkit-Examples.package, > I hope) but is still referenced somewhere. > > Using ConfigurationOfRoassal2-AlexandreBergel.111 (the version I loaded > on 3 Oct) loads successfully, while > ConfigurationOfRoassal2-AlexandreBergel.114 fails as described above. > > > I added for now the trait back. Can you check that the loading works? > > But better would be to release a new stable version of roassal that links with > the new version of gtexamples, or update the current version of roassal to load > the gtexample version before the change. > > @Alexandre I can make a new stable version with the current version of roassal > + gt examples > > Cheers, > Andrei Yes, that loads successfully now, thanks! Cheers, Alistair

Oct. 17, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Mocketry willGenerateValueFrom: (was: Re: How do you mock http?)

by Herby VojÄÃk

Denis Kudriashov wrote: > Hi Herby. > > There is message #will: which accepts the block with possible arguments > (if needed). > > ZnClient stub new will: [ ZnMockClient ...] Ah. I had the impression that will: only accepts the MockExpectedXxx instance... will try. Thanks. > But generally your approach looks bad to me. You put too many details on > your tests which just duplicate Zinc API used in the domain code. It > makes tests brittle and tightly coupled. And they looks quite unreadable. > > I usuallyintroduce kind of MyExternalClient intermediatewhich provides Well, yes, like dao I use to communicate with database. I see, but... there is always a but. If I am able to mock communication at lower level, I do not specify which object / library / client must be used to achieve that communication. I often find this a plus. > normal messages to interact with remote system. And it completely hides > overall http communication. > So in tests I stub this guy with simple mocks. > But in addition I write real communication tests specifically for that > object. They can be unstable because it is real network. But idea to > test actual communication in single place and abstract the rest of > system from it. Also it provide good checker for the possible API > changes and general problems with service. I tend to move this way when there is more communication with outside APIs (atm, I only have then one instance). And, as mentioned, I got used to mock things at http level from node, where nock library is great way to do these kinds of tests, so I got a slight bias to use 'mock at http level' approach. > Best regards, > Denis Thanks, Herby > 2017-10-17 12:34 GMT+02:00 Herby VojÄÃk <herby(a)mailbox.sk > <mailto:herby@mailbox.sk>>: > > Herby VojÄÃk wrote: > > Hello! > > I felt the need to mock http api (like nock in node, that is, > mock http > request-response itself on low-level part, leaving aside the > question of > what wrapper / library one uses to get to that http; in node it > mocks > basic http layer, here I tackled ZnClient), but struggled for a > time how > to grasp it. Finally I used something like this (with help of > Mocketry, > `1 to: 10` to mean "enough to actually be used even if there are > more > unrelated uses", it could as well be `1 to: 100`): > > ZnClient stub new willReturnValueFrom: > ((1 to: 10) collect: [ :i | ZnMockClient > > > For Denis Kudriashov: would you be willing to add something like > `willGenerateValueFrom: aBlock` to Mocketry, so previous two lines > could be replaced by simpler: > > ZnClient stub new willGenerateValueFrom: [ ZnMockClient > > ? > > If something allowing it is there, I am sorry but I haven't found it. > > Herby > > whenRequest: [ :request | > { request uri scheme. request uri authority. request uri > pathPrintString. request uri query associations asSet } > = { #https. 'onesignal.com <http://onesignal.com>'. > '/api/v1/players/{1}' format: { UUID > fromString36: 'Q7' }. { 'app_id' -> appId } asSet } > and: [ #(GET HEAD) includes: request method ] ] > thenResponse: [ :request | ZnResponse ok: (ZnEntity json: '{}') > ] ]). > > with the help of this class (garbled utf not my fault, iceberg > metacello > integration does it): > > 'From Pharo6.0 of 13 May 2016 [Latest update: #60512] on 17 > October 2017 > at 12:05:38.908634 pm'! > ZnClient subclass: #ZnMockClient > instanceVariableNames: 'conditionBlock responseBlock' > classVariableNames: '' > poolDictionaries: '' > category: 'Towergame-Tests'! > !ZnMockClient commentStamp: 'HerbyVojcik 10/16/2017 16:43' prior: 0! > I am a mock ZnClient. > > I am created with ZnMockClient whenRequest: whenBlock thenResponse: > thenBlock. > > Upon execution of the request, when (whenBlock cull: request) is > true, > response is set to (thenBlock cull: request). Otherwise, > behaviour is > delegated to super.! > > > !ZnMockClient methodsFor: 'accessing' stamp: 'HerbertVojÃ ÃÂk > 10/17/2017 > 12:00:27'! > conditionBlock > ^ conditionBlock! ! > > !ZnMockClient methodsFor: 'accessing' stamp: 'HerbertVojÃ ÃÂk > 10/17/2017 > 12:00:27'! > responseBlock: anObject > responseBlock := anObject! ! > > !ZnMockClient methodsFor: 'accessing' stamp: 'HerbertVojÃ ÃÂk > 10/17/2017 > 12:00:27'! > conditionBlock: anObject > conditionBlock := anObject! ! > > !ZnMockClient methodsFor: 'accessing' stamp: 'HerbertVojÃ ÃÂk > 10/17/2017 > 12:00:27'! > responseBlock > ^ responseBlock! ! > > > !ZnMockClient methodsFor: 'private protocol' stamp: 'HerbertVojÃ ÃÂk > 10/17/2017 12:00:27'! > executeRequestResponse > ^ (self conditionBlock cull: self request) > ifTrue: [ response := self responseBlock cull: self request. > response > contents ] > ifFalse: [ super executeRequestResponse ]! ! > > "-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- "! > > ZnMockClient class > instanceVariableNames: ''! > > !ZnMockClient class methodsFor: 'instance creation' stamp: > 'HerbertVojÃ ÃÂk 10/17/2017 12:00:27'! > whenRequest: aBlock thenResponse: anotherBlock > ^ self new > conditionBlock: aBlock; > responseBlock: anotherBlock; > yourself! ! > > Question 1: Is there a better way? > > Question 2: If not, would ZnMockClient be good addition to Zinc > itself, > to ease testing for others? > > Herby > > >

Oct. 17, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Roassal2 in recent Pharo 7 causes DNU #asTraitComposition

by Andrei Chis

On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 1:04 PM, Alistair Grant <akgrant0710(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 09:33:39AM +0000, Alistair Grant wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 06:28:05AM +0000, Alistair Grant wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > > > I'm attempting to load Roassal2 in to Pharo7 and am getting: > > > > > > UndefinedObject(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand: #asTraitComposition > > > > > > > > > It can be reproduced in a clean Pharo7 image, e.g. > > > Pharo7.0-32bit-d1b0e3e.image (downloaded 16 Oct 2017), and executing: > > > > > > Gofer it > > > smalltalkhubUser: 'ObjectProfile' project: 'Roassal2'; > > > configurationOf: 'Roassal2'; > > > loadStable. > > > > > > > > > OS: Ubuntu 16.04. > > > > > > I last rebuilt my image on 3 October without any problems. > > > > > > Any suggestions? I suspect the combination of Monticello and Traits > > > will take me quite a while to figure out. > > > > This could simply be an ordering issue, i.e. maybe Monticello / > > Metacello needs to ensure that the traits are loaded before the classes. > > > > Presumably at some point during the load there is a list of classes that > > are going to be loaded. If someone can point me to the correct location > > it will save some time tracking it down. > > OK, it looks like Roassal has gone through quite a bit of development in > the last couple of months, and that TGTExampleIcon is simply missing > from the repository > (https://github.com/feenkcom/gtoolkit-examples/tree/master/ > src/GToolkit-Examples.package, > I hope) but is still referenced somewhere. > > Using ConfigurationOfRoassal2-AlexandreBergel.111 (the version I loaded > on 3 Oct) loads successfully, while > ConfigurationOfRoassal2-AlexandreBergel.114 fails as described above. > I added for now the trait back. Can you check that the loading works? But better would be to release a new stable version of roassal that links with the new version of gtexamples, or update the current version of roassal to load the gtexample version before the change. @Alexandre I can make a new stable version with the current version of roassal + gt examples Cheers, Andrei > > Cheers, > Alistair > > >

Oct. 17, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Roassal2 in recent Pharo 7 causes DNU #asTraitComposition

by Alistair Grant

On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 09:33:39AM +0000, Alistair Grant wrote: > On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 06:28:05AM +0000, Alistair Grant wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > I'm attempting to load Roassal2 in to Pharo7 and am getting: > > > > UndefinedObject(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand: #asTraitComposition > > > > > > It can be reproduced in a clean Pharo7 image, e.g. > > Pharo7.0-32bit-d1b0e3e.image (downloaded 16 Oct 2017), and executing: > > > > Gofer it > > smalltalkhubUser: 'ObjectProfile' project: 'Roassal2'; > > configurationOf: 'Roassal2'; > > loadStable. > > > > > > OS: Ubuntu 16.04. > > > > I last rebuilt my image on 3 October without any problems. > > > > Any suggestions? I suspect the combination of Monticello and Traits > > will take me quite a while to figure out. > > This could simply be an ordering issue, i.e. maybe Monticello / > Metacello needs to ensure that the traits are loaded before the classes. > > Presumably at some point during the load there is a list of classes that > are going to be loaded. If someone can point me to the correct location > it will save some time tracking it down. OK, it looks like Roassal has gone through quite a bit of development in the last couple of months, and that TGTExampleIcon is simply missing from the repository (https://github.com/feenkcom/gtoolkit-examples/tree/master/src/GToolkit-Exam…, I hope) but is still referenced somewhere. Using ConfigurationOfRoassal2-AlexandreBergel.111 (the version I loaded on 3 Oct) loads successfully, while ConfigurationOfRoassal2-AlexandreBergel.114 fails as described above. Cheers, Alistair

Oct. 17, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Mocketry willGenerateValueFrom: (was: Re: How do you mock http?)

by Denis Kudriashov

Hi Herby. There is message #will: which accepts the block with possible arguments (if needed). ZnClient stub new will: [ ZnMockClient ...] But generally your approach looks bad to me. You put too many details on your tests which just duplicate Zinc API used in the domain code. It makes tests brittle and tightly coupled. And they looks quite unreadable. I usually introduce kind of MyExternalClient intermediate which provides normal messages to interact with remote system. And it completely hides overall http communication. So in tests I stub this guy with simple mocks. But in addition I write real communication tests specifically for that object. They can be unstable because it is real network. But idea to test actual communication in single place and abstract the rest of system from it. Also it provide good checker for the possible API changes and general problems with service. Best regards, Denis 2017-10-17 12:34 GMT+02:00 Herby VojÄÃk <herby(a)mailbox.sk>: > Herby VojÄÃk wrote: > >> Hello! >> >> I felt the need to mock http api (like nock in node, that is, mock http >> request-response itself on low-level part, leaving aside the question of >> what wrapper / library one uses to get to that http; in node it mocks >> basic http layer, here I tackled ZnClient), but struggled for a time how >> to grasp it. Finally I used something like this (with help of Mocketry, >> `1 to: 10` to mean "enough to actually be used even if there are more >> unrelated uses", it could as well be `1 to: 100`): >> >> ZnClient stub new willReturnValueFrom: >> ((1 to: 10) collect: [ :i | ZnMockClient >> > > For Denis Kudriashov: would you be willing to add something like > `willGenerateValueFrom: aBlock` to Mocketry, so previous two lines could be > replaced by simpler: > > ZnClient stub new willGenerateValueFrom: [ ZnMockClient > > ? > > If something allowing it is there, I am sorry but I haven't found it. > > Herby > > whenRequest: [ :request | >> { request uri scheme. request uri authority. request uri >> pathPrintString. request uri query associations asSet } >> = { #https. 'onesignal.com'. '/api/v1/players/{1}' format: { UUID >> fromString36: 'Q7' }. { 'app_id' -> appId } asSet } >> and: [ #(GET HEAD) includes: request method ] ] >> thenResponse: [ :request | ZnResponse ok: (ZnEntity json: '{}') ] ]). >> >> with the help of this class (garbled utf not my fault, iceberg metacello >> integration does it): >> >> 'From Pharo6.0 of 13 May 2016 [Latest update: #60512] on 17 October 2017 >> at 12:05:38.908634 pm'! >> ZnClient subclass: #ZnMockClient >> instanceVariableNames: 'conditionBlock responseBlock' >> classVariableNames: '' >> poolDictionaries: '' >> category: 'Towergame-Tests'! >> !ZnMockClient commentStamp: 'HerbyVojcik 10/16/2017 16:43' prior: 0! >> I am a mock ZnClient. >> >> I am created with ZnMockClient whenRequest: whenBlock thenResponse: >> thenBlock. >> >> Upon execution of the request, when (whenBlock cull: request) is true, >> response is set to (thenBlock cull: request). Otherwise, behaviour is >> delegated to super.! >> >> >> !ZnMockClient methodsFor: 'accessing' stamp: 'HerbertVojÃ ÃÂk 10/17/2017 >> 12:00:27'! >> conditionBlock >> ^ conditionBlock! ! >> >> !ZnMockClient methodsFor: 'accessing' stamp: 'HerbertVojÃ ÃÂk 10/17/2017 >> 12:00:27'! >> responseBlock: anObject >> responseBlock := anObject! ! >> >> !ZnMockClient methodsFor: 'accessing' stamp: 'HerbertVojÃ ÃÂk 10/17/2017 >> 12:00:27'! >> conditionBlock: anObject >> conditionBlock := anObject! ! >> >> !ZnMockClient methodsFor: 'accessing' stamp: 'HerbertVojÃ ÃÂk 10/17/2017 >> 12:00:27'! >> responseBlock >> ^ responseBlock! ! >> >> >> !ZnMockClient methodsFor: 'private protocol' stamp: 'HerbertVojÃ ÃÂk >> 10/17/2017 12:00:27'! >> executeRequestResponse >> ^ (self conditionBlock cull: self request) >> ifTrue: [ response := self responseBlock cull: self request. response >> contents ] >> ifFalse: [ super executeRequestResponse ]! ! >> >> "-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- "! >> >> ZnMockClient class >> instanceVariableNames: ''! >> >> !ZnMockClient class methodsFor: 'instance creation' stamp: >> 'HerbertVojÃ ÃÂk 10/17/2017 12:00:27'! >> whenRequest: aBlock thenResponse: anotherBlock >> ^ self new >> conditionBlock: aBlock; >> responseBlock: anotherBlock; >> yourself! ! >> >> Question 1: Is there a better way? >> >> Question 2: If not, would ZnMockClient be good addition to Zinc itself, >> to ease testing for others? >> >> Herby >> >> >

Oct. 17, 2017

Mocketry willGenerateValueFrom: (was: Re: How do you mock http?)

by Herby VojÄÃk

Herby VojÄÃk wrote: > Hello! > > I felt the need to mock http api (like nock in node, that is, mock http > request-response itself on low-level part, leaving aside the question of > what wrapper / library one uses to get to that http; in node it mocks > basic http layer, here I tackled ZnClient), but struggled for a time how > to grasp it. Finally I used something like this (with help of Mocketry, > `1 to: 10` to mean "enough to actually be used even if there are more > unrelated uses", it could as well be `1 to: 100`): > > ZnClient stub new willReturnValueFrom: > ((1 to: 10) collect: [ :i | ZnMockClient For Denis Kudriashov: would you be willing to add something like `willGenerateValueFrom: aBlock` to Mocketry, so previous two lines could be replaced by simpler: ZnClient stub new willGenerateValueFrom: [ ZnMockClient ? If something allowing it is there, I am sorry but I haven't found it. Herby > whenRequest: [ :request | > { request uri scheme. request uri authority. request uri > pathPrintString. request uri query associations asSet } > = { #https. 'onesignal.com'. '/api/v1/players/{1}' format: { UUID > fromString36: 'Q7' }. { 'app_id' -> appId } asSet } > and: [ #(GET HEAD) includes: request method ] ] > thenResponse: [ :request | ZnResponse ok: (ZnEntity json: '{}') ] ]). > > with the help of this class (garbled utf not my fault, iceberg metacello > integration does it): > > 'From Pharo6.0 of 13 May 2016 [Latest update: #60512] on 17 October 2017 > at 12:05:38.908634 pm'! > ZnClient subclass: #ZnMockClient > instanceVariableNames: 'conditionBlock responseBlock' > classVariableNames: '' > poolDictionaries: '' > category: 'Towergame-Tests'! > !ZnMockClient commentStamp: 'HerbyVojcik 10/16/2017 16:43' prior: 0! > I am a mock ZnClient. > > I am created with ZnMockClient whenRequest: whenBlock thenResponse: > thenBlock. > > Upon execution of the request, when (whenBlock cull: request) is true, > response is set to (thenBlock cull: request). Otherwise, behaviour is > delegated to super.! > > > !ZnMockClient methodsFor: 'accessing' stamp: 'HerbertVojÃÂÃÂk 10/17/2017 > 12:00:27'! > conditionBlock > ^ conditionBlock! ! > > !ZnMockClient methodsFor: 'accessing' stamp: 'HerbertVojÃÂÃÂk 10/17/2017 > 12:00:27'! > responseBlock: anObject > responseBlock := anObject! ! > > !ZnMockClient methodsFor: 'accessing' stamp: 'HerbertVojÃÂÃÂk 10/17/2017 > 12:00:27'! > conditionBlock: anObject > conditionBlock := anObject! ! > > !ZnMockClient methodsFor: 'accessing' stamp: 'HerbertVojÃÂÃÂk 10/17/2017 > 12:00:27'! > responseBlock > ^ responseBlock! ! > > > !ZnMockClient methodsFor: 'private protocol' stamp: 'HerbertVojÃÂÃÂk > 10/17/2017 12:00:27'! > executeRequestResponse > ^ (self conditionBlock cull: self request) > ifTrue: [ response := self responseBlock cull: self request. response > contents ] > ifFalse: [ super executeRequestResponse ]! ! > > "-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- "! > > ZnMockClient class > instanceVariableNames: ''! > > !ZnMockClient class methodsFor: 'instance creation' stamp: > 'HerbertVojÃÂÃÂk 10/17/2017 12:00:27'! > whenRequest: aBlock thenResponse: anotherBlock > ^ self new > conditionBlock: aBlock; > responseBlock: anotherBlock; > yourself! ! > > Question 1: Is there a better way? > > Question 2: If not, would ZnMockClient be good addition to Zinc itself, > to ease testing for others? > > Herby >

Oct. 17, 2017

How do you mock http?

by Herby VojÄÃk

Hello! I felt the need to mock http api (like nock in node, that is, mock http request-response itself on low-level part, leaving aside the question of what wrapper / library one uses to get to that http; in node it mocks basic http layer, here I tackled ZnClient), but struggled for a time how to grasp it. Finally I used something like this (with help of Mocketry, `1 to: 10` to mean "enough to actually be used even if there are more unrelated uses", it could as well be `1 to: 100`): ZnClient stub new willReturnValueFrom: ((1 to: 10) collect: [ :i | ZnMockClient whenRequest: [ :request | { request uri scheme. request uri authority. request uri pathPrintString. request uri query associations asSet } = { #https. 'onesignal.com'. '/api/v1/players/{1}' format: { UUID fromString36: 'Q7' }. { 'app_id' -> appId } asSet } and: [ #(GET HEAD) includes: request method ] ] thenResponse: [ :request | ZnResponse ok: (ZnEntity json: '{}') ] ]). with the help of this class (garbled utf not my fault, iceberg metacello integration does it): 'From Pharo6.0 of 13 May 2016 [Latest update: #60512] on 17 October 2017 at 12:05:38.908634 pm'! ZnClient subclass: #ZnMockClient instanceVariableNames: 'conditionBlock responseBlock' classVariableNames: '' poolDictionaries: '' category: 'Towergame-Tests'! !ZnMockClient commentStamp: 'HerbyVojcik 10/16/2017 16:43' prior: 0! I am a mock ZnClient. I am created with ZnMockClient whenRequest: whenBlock thenResponse: thenBlock. Upon execution of the request, when (whenBlock cull: request) is true, response is set to (thenBlock cull: request). Otherwise, behaviour is delegated to super.! !ZnMockClient methodsFor: 'accessing' stamp: 'HerbertVojÃÂÃÂk 10/17/2017 12:00:27'! conditionBlock ^ conditionBlock! ! !ZnMockClient methodsFor: 'accessing' stamp: 'HerbertVojÃÂÃÂk 10/17/2017 12:00:27'! responseBlock: anObject responseBlock := anObject! ! !ZnMockClient methodsFor: 'accessing' stamp: 'HerbertVojÃÂÃÂk 10/17/2017 12:00:27'! conditionBlock: anObject conditionBlock := anObject! ! !ZnMockClient methodsFor: 'accessing' stamp: 'HerbertVojÃÂÃÂk 10/17/2017 12:00:27'! responseBlock ^ responseBlock! ! !ZnMockClient methodsFor: 'private protocol' stamp: 'HerbertVojÃÂÃÂk 10/17/2017 12:00:27'! executeRequestResponse ^ (self conditionBlock cull: self request) ifTrue: [ response := self responseBlock cull: self request. response contents ] ifFalse: [ super executeRequestResponse ]! ! "-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- "! ZnMockClient class instanceVariableNames: ''! !ZnMockClient class methodsFor: 'instance creation' stamp: 'HerbertVojÃÂÃÂk 10/17/2017 12:00:27'! whenRequest: aBlock thenResponse: anotherBlock ^ self new conditionBlock: aBlock; responseBlock: anotherBlock; yourself! ! Question 1: Is there a better way? Question 2: If not, would ZnMockClient be good addition to Zinc itself, to ease testing for others? Herby

Oct. 17, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] DesktopManaker from Ctrl-D to Ctrl-M help needed!!

by Ricardo Pacheco

Yes, you are right. Thanks a lot!!!! -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Oct. 17, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] DesktopManaker from Ctrl-D to Ctrl-M help needed!!

by Alistair Grant

On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 02:21:42AM -0700, Ricardo Pacheco wrote: > > PD to the DesktopManager team: Your tool is really cool, thanks a lot; > nevertheless is not nice to hide the Do-It command > I don't use the DesktopManager, but remember seeing a reply some time ago that Do-It has been remapped to Ctrl-D Ctrl-D. HTH, Alistair

Oct. 17, 2017

NeoJSONObject convenience method hint

by Herby VojÄÃk

newFromAccessors: aCollection ofObject: anObject "Performs supplied accessors on anObject and returns my instance with accessor -> result pairs." ^ self newFrom: (aCollection collect: [ :each | each -> (anObject perform: each) ]) "I use it for example in this piece of code: NeoJSONObject newFromAccessors: #(good bad) ofObject: self dao sumOfAllAnswers "

Oct. 17, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] DesktopManaker from Ctrl-D to Ctrl-M help needed!!

by Ricardo Pacheco

Actually, I see that Ctrl-M is also not a good choice, so I will try to figure out what key combinations are available!! -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Oct. 17, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Roassal2 in recent Pharo 7 causes DNU #asTraitComposition

by Alistair Grant

On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 06:28:05AM +0000, Alistair Grant wrote: > Hi All, > > I'm attempting to load Roassal2 in to Pharo7 and am getting: > > UndefinedObject(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand: #asTraitComposition > > > It can be reproduced in a clean Pharo7 image, e.g. > Pharo7.0-32bit-d1b0e3e.image (downloaded 16 Oct 2017), and executing: > > Gofer it > smalltalkhubUser: 'ObjectProfile' project: 'Roassal2'; > configurationOf: 'Roassal2'; > loadStable. > > > OS: Ubuntu 16.04. > > I last rebuilt my image on 3 October without any problems. > > Any suggestions? I suspect the combination of Monticello and Traits > will take me quite a while to figure out. This could simply be an ordering issue, i.e. maybe Monticello / Metacello needs to ensure that the traits are loaded before the classes. Presumably at some point during the load there is a list of classes that are going to be loaded. If someone can point me to the correct location it will save some time tracking it down. Thanks! Alistair > Stack Trace: > > UndefinedObject(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand: #asTraitComposition > MCClassDefinition>>traitCompositionCompiled > [ :builder | > builder > superclass: superClass; > name: name; > layoutClass: (ObjectLayout layoutForType: type); > slots: self instanceVariables; > sharedVariables: self classVariables; > sharedPools: self sharedPoolsString; > classSlots: self classInstanceVariables; > traitComposition: self traitCompositionCompiled; > classTraitComposition: self classTraitCompositionCompiled; > comment: comment stamp: commentStamp; > category: category; > environment: superClass environment ] in [ PharoClassInstaller > make: [ :builder | > builder > superclass: superClass; > name: name; > layoutClass: (ObjectLayout layoutForType: type); > slots: self instanceVariables; > sharedVariables: self classVariables; > sharedPools: self sharedPoolsString; > classSlots: self classInstanceVariables; > traitComposition: self traitCompositionCompiled; > classTraitComposition: self classTraitCompositionCompiled; > comment: comment stamp: commentStamp; > category: category; > environment: superClass environment ] ] in MCClassDefinition>>createClass in Block: [ :builder | ... > PharoClassInstaller class(AbstractClassInstaller class)>>make: > [ PharoClassInstaller > make: [ :builder | > builder > superclass: superClass; > name: name; > layoutClass: (ObjectLayout layoutForType: type); > slots: self instanceVariables; > sharedVariables: self classVariables; > sharedPools: self sharedPoolsString; > classSlots: self classInstanceVariables; > traitComposition: self traitCompositionCompiled; > classTraitComposition: self classTraitCompositionCompiled; > comment: comment stamp: commentStamp; > category: category; > environment: superClass environment ] ] in MCClassDefinition>>createClass in Block: [ PharoClassInstaller... > BlockClosure>>on:do: > MCClassDefinition>>createClass > MCClassDefinition>>load > MCClassDefinition(MCDefinition)>>addMethodAdditionTo: > [ :each | each addMethodAdditionTo: methodAdditions ] in MCPackageLoader>>basicLoadDefinitions in Block: [ :each | each addMethodAdditionTo: methodAddition...etc... > [ :each | > | newLabel | > "Special handling for first and last element" > (count = 0 > or: [ count + 1 = size > or: [ (Time millisecondsSince: lastUpdate) >= msecs ] ]) > ifTrue: [ bar current: count. > oldLabel = (newLabel := (labelBlock cull: each) ifNil: [ oldLabel ]) > ifFalse: [ bar label: newLabel. > oldLabel := newLabel ]. > lastUpdate := Time millisecondClockValue ]. > aBlock value: each. > count := count + 1 ] in [ :bar | > labelBlock := aStringOrBlock isString > ifTrue: [ bar label: aStringOrBlock. > [ :dummyItem | aStringOrBlock ] ] > ifFalse: [ aStringOrBlock ]. > self > do: [ :each | > | newLabel | > "Special handling for first and last element" > (count = 0 > or: [ count + 1 = size > or: [ (Time millisecondsSince: lastUpdate) >= msecs ] ]) > ifTrue: [ bar current: count. > oldLabel > = (newLabel := (labelBlock cull: each) ifNil: [ oldLabel ]) > ifFalse: [ bar label: newLabel. > oldLabel := newLabel ]. > lastUpdate := Time millisecondClockValue ]. > aBlock value: each. > count := count + 1 ] ] in OrderedCollection(Collection)>>do:displayingProgress:every: in Block: [ :each | ... > OrderedCollection>>do: > [ :bar | > labelBlock := aStringOrBlock isString > ifTrue: [ bar label: aStringOrBlock. > [ :dummyItem | aStringOrBlock ] ] > ifFalse: [ aStringOrBlock ]. > self > do: [ :each | > | newLabel | > "Special handling for first and last element" > (count = 0 > or: [ count + 1 = size > or: [ (Time millisecondsSince: lastUpdate) >= msecs ] ]) > ifTrue: [ bar current: count. > oldLabel > = (newLabel := (labelBlock cull: each) ifNil: [ oldLabel ]) > ifFalse: [ bar label: newLabel. > oldLabel := newLabel ]. > lastUpdate := Time millisecondClockValue ]. > aBlock value: each. > count := count + 1 ] ] in OrderedCollection(Collection)>>do:displayingProgress:every: in Block: [ :bar | ... > BlockClosure>>cull: > [ ^ block cull: self ] in [ self prepareForRunning. > CurrentJob value: self during: [ ^ block cull: self ] ] in Job>>run in Block: [ ^ block cull: self ] > [ activeProcess psValueAt: index put: anObject. > aBlock value ] in CurrentJob(DynamicVariable)>>value:during: in Block: [ activeProcess psValueAt: index put: anObject.... > BlockClosure>>ensure: > CurrentJob(DynamicVariable)>>value:during: > CurrentJob class(DynamicVariable class)>>value:during: > [ self prepareForRunning. > CurrentJob value: self during: [ ^ block cull: self ] ] in Job>>run in Block: [ self prepareForRunning.... > BlockClosure>>ensure: > Job>>run > MorphicUIManager(UIManager)>>displayProgress:from:to:during: > ByteString(String)>>displayProgressFrom:to:during: > OrderedCollection(Collection)>>do:displayingProgress:every: > OrderedCollection(Collection)>>do:displayingProgress: > MCPackageLoader>>basicLoadDefinitions > [ self basicLoadDefinitions ] in MCPackageLoader>>basicLoad in Block: [ self basicLoadDefinitions ] > [ aBlock value ] in SourceFileArray>>deferFlushDuring: in Block: [ aBlock value ] > BlockClosure>>ensure: > > --

Oct. 17, 2017

DesktopManaker from Ctrl-D to Ctrl-M help needed!!

by Ricardo Pacheco

Hello. I'm using the Desktop Manager add on in my Pharo 6, but I really dislike the fact that its key shortcuts start with Ctrl-D because it hides the Do-It command. So I looked into the code and changed in the class method DesktopManager >> desktopMenuCommandOn:, to use Ctrl-M instead of Ctrl-D. After saving the new key shortcuts are working now. Nevertheless the old Ctrl-D based are still functional. The question is, how do I disable them? In other words, I do I make the system reset its key short-cuts? Is there a tool where I can see all the active key short-cuts of the system and manage them? Thanks a lot. PD to the DesktopManager team: Your tool is really cool, thanks a lot; nevertheless is not nice to hide the Do-It command -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Oct. 17, 2017

Roassal2 in recent Pharo 7 causes DNU #asTraitComposition

by Alistair Grant

Hi All, I'm attempting to load Roassal2 in to Pharo7 and am getting: UndefinedObject(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand: #asTraitComposition It can be reproduced in a clean Pharo7 image, e.g. Pharo7.0-32bit-d1b0e3e.image (downloaded 16 Oct 2017), and executing: Gofer it smalltalkhubUser: 'ObjectProfile' project: 'Roassal2'; configurationOf: 'Roassal2'; loadStable. OS: Ubuntu 16.04. I last rebuilt my image on 3 October without any problems. Any suggestions? I suspect the combination of Monticello and Traits will take me quite a while to figure out. Thanks, Alistair Stack Trace: UndefinedObject(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand: #asTraitComposition MCClassDefinition>>traitCompositionCompiled [ :builder | builder superclass: superClass; name: name; layoutClass: (ObjectLayout layoutForType: type); slots: self instanceVariables; sharedVariables: self classVariables; sharedPools: self sharedPoolsString; classSlots: self classInstanceVariables; traitComposition: self traitCompositionCompiled; classTraitComposition: self classTraitCompositionCompiled; comment: comment stamp: commentStamp; category: category; environment: superClass environment ] in [ PharoClassInstaller make: [ :builder | builder superclass: superClass; name: name; layoutClass: (ObjectLayout layoutForType: type); slots: self instanceVariables; sharedVariables: self classVariables; sharedPools: self sharedPoolsString; classSlots: self classInstanceVariables; traitComposition: self traitCompositionCompiled; classTraitComposition: self classTraitCompositionCompiled; comment: comment stamp: commentStamp; category: category; environment: superClass environment ] ] in MCClassDefinition>>createClass in Block: [ :builder | ... PharoClassInstaller class(AbstractClassInstaller class)>>make: [ PharoClassInstaller make: [ :builder | builder superclass: superClass; name: name; layoutClass: (ObjectLayout layoutForType: type); slots: self instanceVariables; sharedVariables: self classVariables; sharedPools: self sharedPoolsString; classSlots: self classInstanceVariables; traitComposition: self traitCompositionCompiled; classTraitComposition: self classTraitCompositionCompiled; comment: comment stamp: commentStamp; category: category; environment: superClass environment ] ] in MCClassDefinition>>createClass in Block: [ PharoClassInstaller... BlockClosure>>on:do: MCClassDefinition>>createClass MCClassDefinition>>load MCClassDefinition(MCDefinition)>>addMethodAdditionTo: [ :each | each addMethodAdditionTo: methodAdditions ] in MCPackageLoader>>basicLoadDefinitions in Block: [ :each | each addMethodAdditionTo: methodAddition...etc... [ :each | | newLabel | "Special handling for first and last element" (count = 0 or: [ count + 1 = size or: [ (Time millisecondsSince: lastUpdate) >= msecs ] ]) ifTrue: [ bar current: count. oldLabel = (newLabel := (labelBlock cull: each) ifNil: [ oldLabel ]) ifFalse: [ bar label: newLabel. oldLabel := newLabel ]. lastUpdate := Time millisecondClockValue ]. aBlock value: each. count := count + 1 ] in [ :bar | labelBlock := aStringOrBlock isString ifTrue: [ bar label: aStringOrBlock. [ :dummyItem | aStringOrBlock ] ] ifFalse: [ aStringOrBlock ]. self do: [ :each | | newLabel | "Special handling for first and last element" (count = 0 or: [ count + 1 = size or: [ (Time millisecondsSince: lastUpdate) >= msecs ] ]) ifTrue: [ bar current: count. oldLabel = (newLabel := (labelBlock cull: each) ifNil: [ oldLabel ]) ifFalse: [ bar label: newLabel. oldLabel := newLabel ]. lastUpdate := Time millisecondClockValue ]. aBlock value: each. count := count + 1 ] ] in OrderedCollection(Collection)>>do:displayingProgress:every: in Block: [ :each | ... OrderedCollection>>do: [ :bar | labelBlock := aStringOrBlock isString ifTrue: [ bar label: aStringOrBlock. [ :dummyItem | aStringOrBlock ] ] ifFalse: [ aStringOrBlock ]. self do: [ :each | | newLabel | "Special handling for first and last element" (count = 0 or: [ count + 1 = size or: [ (Time millisecondsSince: lastUpdate) >= msecs ] ]) ifTrue: [ bar current: count. oldLabel = (newLabel := (labelBlock cull: each) ifNil: [ oldLabel ]) ifFalse: [ bar label: newLabel. oldLabel := newLabel ]. lastUpdate := Time millisecondClockValue ]. aBlock value: each. count := count + 1 ] ] in OrderedCollection(Collection)>>do:displayingProgress:every: in Block: [ :bar | ... BlockClosure>>cull: [ ^ block cull: self ] in [ self prepareForRunning. CurrentJob value: self during: [ ^ block cull: self ] ] in Job>>run in Block: [ ^ block cull: self ] [ activeProcess psValueAt: index put: anObject. aBlock value ] in CurrentJob(DynamicVariable)>>value:during: in Block: [ activeProcess psValueAt: index put: anObject.... BlockClosure>>ensure: CurrentJob(DynamicVariable)>>value:during: CurrentJob class(DynamicVariable class)>>value:during: [ self prepareForRunning. CurrentJob value: self during: [ ^ block cull: self ] ] in Job>>run in Block: [ self prepareForRunning.... BlockClosure>>ensure: Job>>run MorphicUIManager(UIManager)>>displayProgress:from:to:during: ByteString(String)>>displayProgressFrom:to:during: OrderedCollection(Collection)>>do:displayingProgress:every: OrderedCollection(Collection)>>do:displayingProgress: MCPackageLoader>>basicLoadDefinitions [ self basicLoadDefinitions ] in MCPackageLoader>>basicLoad in Block: [ self basicLoadDefinitions ] [ aBlock value ] in SourceFileArray>>deferFlushDuring: in Block: [ aBlock value ] BlockClosure>>ensure: --

Oct. 17, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

by john pfersich

Look and feel Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 16, 2017, at 10:41, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas <offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > >> On 13/10/17 19:39, Andrew Glynn wrote: >> Pharo is a great OSS Smalltalk, IMHO by the best to date (Squeak >> was/is good, but the LaF was never professional enough for it to be >> taken as seriously as it deserves, it just looks too much like a toy >> although in reality it's very powerful). Having the capability to >> build-on a reliable, attractive and enjoyable base without signing >> over my great-grand-child's first born is fantastic, and a great >> achievement for those who accomplished it. > > What is the LaF ? > > Cheers, > > Offray >

Oct. 16, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

by Dimitris Chloupis

So I finally built the Python live coding library I was talking about. I named it "pylivecoding" https://github.com/kilon/pylivecoding Live codig does mean in this case , replace methosd with updated ones for each instance of a class. Same thing you would expect in Pharo. Very simple to use , only 50 lines of code. it can also work with not only modifying methods , but aslo renaming them and removing or adding new ones. I have tested it during the day, seems to work ok but of course more thoroug testing needs to be done. Of course nowhere near the Pharo experience. But the main idea is there, you open yoru favorite editor IDE, you code away and at the same time you see your code come alive with no delays or weird side effects/ requirements. Of course it works with debuggers too, I use it from my python ide, python debugger and iptyhon all the time. Again usual workflow , debug, correct, continue. No issues so far. On Sat, Oct 14, 2017 at 4:37 AM Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I donât care about Python vs Pharo debate. I love both I use both. > > My ultimate goal is to unite the two under a single Uber powerful live > coding environment part of my project Atlas. With direct mapping between > Pharo and Python objects and no compromises. A workflow that will be > seamless that you wonât know if you use Python or Pharo libraries as the > Atlas environment will allow you to work with both languages in a symbiotic > relationship. > > That was a dream of mine that I did not dear to reveal now slowly and > steadily becomes reality. > > I am extending the live coding environment of python and later will tackle > the subject of a python image format. > > Already Atlas can use python libraries from Pharo but thatâs about it , > but after this revelation I can move to stage 2 of full synchronization > between Python and Pharo. Even now Atlas allows you to use Pharo syntax to > fully access Python libraries. But integration is skin deep and is what is > going to improve the next years. > > So it seems something good came out of this very long discussion. Atlas is > going for a big update. This thread has been a huge inspiration for me. > Super excited :) > > On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 at 03:40, Andrew Glynn <aglynn42(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> The first language I played with, I was nearly 5, was a live environment, >> Forth. I used it on an old PDP my mother had bought that was being >> surplused at the company she worked at. I used Forth until I was in my >> early teens, it was far superior to the BASIC that most other kids I knew >> who knew any programming used. It wasn't Smalltalk, but in many of the >> areas it was used (production automation is one major area), the language >> that most often replaced it *was* Smalltalk. >> >> The biggest difference, for me, as I wrote in the article the other day, >> is the ability to build-on rather than build-with, which in turn is based >> on the environment being written in itself. Ruby *looks* very much like >> Smalltalk, but it *works* like Java; Python works *more* like Smalltalk, >> and it's a much better live environment than Java or Ruby, because more of >> it is written in itself, but too much of Python is written in C, and that >> causes problems. If the code that interprets/compiles your code follows the >> same rules, the machine code it generates will usually also follow the same >> rules, and those rules/restrictions are, for the most part, designed to >> make code more reliable. >> >> As well, RVM has proven Smalltalk (specifically Squeak / Pharo, though >> admittedly an older version) can scale to 1024 cores nearly linearly. >> >> Python has a decent developer base but it's almost all OSS and almost all >> on Linux. Very few applications in Python are in areas where reliability is >> absolutely necessary, or even all that important. Like Smalltalk, it's a >> general purpose language in a niche, but the niches are very different. For >> years, decades really, any good version of Smalltalk cost an arm and a leg >> (some of them both of each), and as a result it tended to be used only >> where things really *had* to work. >> >> Pharo is a great OSS Smalltalk, IMHO by the best to date (Squeak was/is >> good, but the LaF was never professional enough for it to be taken as >> seriously as it deserves, it just looks too much like a toy although in >> reality it's very powerful). Having the capability to build-on a reliable, >> attractive and enjoyable base without signing over my great-grand-child's >> first born is fantastic, and a great achievement for those who accomplished >> it. >> >> Kendrick is an example of what can be done if you build-*on*: it was >> built on Moose, which is built on Glamorous, which is built on Morphic, >> which itself is based on a couple of decades work olving the basic problems >> inherent to UI's and MVC-type UI's in particular. Kendrick itself was >> written in a very short time when you compare it with other epidemiology >> programs, *if* you only count the time spent on Kendrick itself. It's an >> inherently complex problem area, and it's a life or death problem area. >> That an application capable of working reliably enough to be trusted in >> that area was built in a short time, because it was built-on a couple of >> decades of OSS work, is a huge compliment to those who were involved. >> >> Unfortunately for me, I wasn't, âº. But at least I can take advantage of >> it existence now. >> >> Andrew >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> *Date*: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 21:18:28 +0000 >> *Subject*: Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk >> *To*: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org >> <Any%20question%20about%20pharo%20is%20welcome%20%3cpharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org%3e> >> > >> Reply-to: Any question about pharo is welcome < >> pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> >> *From*: Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com >> <Dimitris%20Chloupis%20%3ckilon.alios(a)gmail.com%3e>> >> Wise not to mention Ruby and Python and Pick the worst of the worst in >> OOP. Because frankly the competition for Pharo against those two behemoths >> can be quite brutal in the flexibility and power of OOP. >> >> And no , these language can do live coding with ease. I know because I >> currently code live coding style with Python for an app I am making. Sure >> it wont provide you with a live system out of the box, but put in 10 lines >> of code and you already ready to go with hardcore live coding. At least >> Python , Ruby being practically a rip off of Smalltalk language may need >> even less. >> >> iPython which by the way is by far the most popular Python tool is the >> real deal, a full blow live coding enviroment. >> >> To my suprise its not even hard to do live coding with C/C++ including >> using image format. To my shock live coding is actually supported by both >> the OS and the hardware. Hardware has its own exception system , OS has an >> image flie format called "memory mapped files" used for DLLs and a lot of >> essential functionality. >> >> For some weird reason however its well hidden and not that much utilised >> by coders. They really love long compile times, dont ask me why. >> >> But yeah C++ even though it has come a long way with its template system, >> its still the king of ugly. That sytax, oh the horrors of that syntax..... >> yiaks !!! >> >> I am so enternal greatful that Pharo introduced me to live coding and >> opened my eyes to universe of fun and productivity. I cannot imagine coding >> an other way ever again. >> >> I really hope that we take this further though. >> >> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 1:31 PM horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk >> < >> https://medium.com/smalltalk-talk/behold-pharo-the-modern-smalltalk-38e132c… >> > >> >> If you would like to suggest some edits, I'm all ears. Anything to improve >> the impact of the article. >> >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >> >> >>

Oct. 16, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

by H. Hirzel

LaF = Look and Feel. If you look at recent versions LaF of Squeak has improved as well. In fact considerably compared to 3.8/3.9 where Pharo branched off. On 10/16/17, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas <offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> wrote: > Hi, > > > On 13/10/17 19:39, Andrew Glynn wrote: >> Pharo is a great OSS Smalltalk, IMHO by the best to date (Squeak >> was/is good, but the LaF was never professional enough for it to be >> taken as seriously as it deserves, it just looks too much like a toy >> although in reality it's very powerful). Having the capability to >> build-on a reliable, attractive and enjoyable base without signing >> over my great-grand-child's first born is fantastic, and a great >> achievement for those who accomplished it. > > What is the LaF ? > > Cheers, > > Offray > >

Oct. 16, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

I'm think that is important to remove barriers for developers coming from other environments based on files for development and documentation, but my path is different, is teaching people like journalist, hacktivist who has no previous or deep experience into developing. Starting with them, using Live Coding and mixing it with interactive documentation, scripting, and agile visualization, has been a powerful enabler. No need to think in the established tradition, because we're building our own, using alternative infrastructure to bootstrap ourselves into alternative futures. Cheers, Offray On 12/10/17 21:55, Ben Coman wrote: > On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 10:39 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas > <offray.luna(a)mutabit.com <mailto:offray.luna@mutabit.com>> wrote: > > The more I use Pharo, the less I use web documentation. > > That is a familiar path, but still an obstacle for people to get over > in trying Pharo - i.e. its a barrier of entry.Â I've previously > referred to this article by JoelOnSoftware, but to pull out a key > part... "Think of these barriers as an obstacle course that people > have to run before you can count them as your customers. If you start > out with a field of 1000 runners, about half of them will trip on the > tires; half of the survivors wonât be strong enough to jump the wall; > half of those survivors will fall off the rope ladder into the mud, > and so on, until only 1 or 2 people actually overcome all the hurdles. > With 8 or 9 barriers, everybody will have one non-negotiable deal > killer.Â This calculus means that eliminating barriers to switching is > the most important thing you have to do if you want to take over an > existing market, because eliminating just one barrier will likely > double your sales. Eliminate two barriers, and youâll double your > sales again." > > For example, Stef mentioned that the Pharo web docs were dropped > because were't used much.Â But perhaps their value is not for regular > use by the community, but more for outsiders evaluating Pharo, or > newcomers transitioning from their old workflow to a Pharo one.Â In > that case their value eliminating one barrier of entry is much greater > than measured from the number of page hits. > > > btw, What I like about Richards's articles is that... most of our > community's articles are for people already using Pharo, even if only > a newcomer of a few days working through an introductory tutorial.Â > Richard's articles target outsiders and one of the side benefits for > *me* is that it pulls in critical outside perspectives to remind me of > the barriers-of-entry stopping people using Pharo.Â Â > > Take for instance the common angst people have against working in an > Image in Smalltalk.Â There are some legitimate concerns with ending up > in a state you can't recreate, which we are addressing this with the > bootstrapping projects.Â But I think we might publicize this better to > outsiders. For example... Mr Smith knows nothing about Smalltalk and > takes an interest in Pharo.Â Smith discusses with colleague Jones who > presents a poor opinion of the Smalltalk Image approach. So Smith > never tries Pharo!Â Alternatively, if Smith has already read in an FAQ > about this common argument and how we address it by our bootstrap > process, he can inform Jones', and maybe nowÂ we've got two curious > newcomers.Â Â > > cheers -ben > >

Oct. 16, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] FYI about Pharo MOOC

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

If you're considering video subtitling, nothing better that Amara: http://amara.org/ It has the easiest interface for video subtitling and easy collaboration built in (no need to learn DVCS --Git, Fossil) to collaborate. Cheers, Offray On 13/10/17 01:24, Stephane Ducasse wrote: > Hello > > It would be super great :) > the files are in the github repo > https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/PharoMooc/tree/master/Subtitles > > Stef > > On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 1:25 AM, Ricardo Pacheco > <ricardo.pacheco.roldan(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Hello Stephane, I can help with the Spanish subtitles. You can send me a file >> with the text, if you have it. My french is basic so please send also the >> English fil, to double check. >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >> >

Oct. 16, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

Hi, On 13/10/17 19:39, Andrew Glynn wrote: > Pharo is a great OSS Smalltalk, IMHO by the best to date (Squeak > was/is good, but the LaF was never professional enough for it to be > taken as seriously as it deserves, it just looks too much like a toy > although in reality it's very powerful). Having the capability to > build-on a reliable, attractive and enjoyable base without signing > over my great-grand-child's first born is fantastic, and a great > achievement for those who accomplished it. What is the LaF ? Cheers, Offray

Oct. 16, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Internationalization

by stephan

On 16-10-17 03:48, casimiro barreto wrote: > IÂ´m using seaside & have some trouble regarding dates (displayed in > English). WhatÂ´s the easy way to display dates in other languages? > Particularly dateInput shows dates in English format (month, day, year) > and months in English. In my subclass of WASession for the application I store the current user and the language she wants to use. Date has #printFormat:, but only english #dayNames and #monthNames. I've just added my own. The javascript libraries for seaside all have custom components for date entry, looking much better than dateInput Stephan

Oct. 16, 2017

Internationalization

by casimiro barreto

Hello, IÂ´m using seaside & have some trouble regarding dates (displayed in English). WhatÂ´s the easy way to display dates in other languages? Particularly dateInput shows dates in English format (month, day, year) and months in English. Best regards, Casimiro -- The information contained in this message is confidential and intended to the recipients specified in the headers. If you received this message by error, notify the sender immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copy or alteration of this message are strictly forbidden and subjected to civil and criminal sanctions.

Oct. 16, 2017

GDPR and the pharo website

by Bruce O'Neel

Hi, We're having some discussions on the Squeak side about GDPR and squeak.org. Â Are there any thoughts about changes to pharo.org for GDPR? Â We have similar web presences so one imagines similar issues. Â If GDPR is not ringing any bells you can startÂ [http://www.eugdpr.org](http://www.eugdpr.org), and the most interesting pages are probablyÂ [http://www.eugdpr.org/key-changes.html](http://www.eugdpr.org/key-changes.h… andÂ [http://www.eugdpr.org/gdpr-faqs.html](http://www.eugdpr.org/gdpr-faqs.html). Thanks. bruce

Oct. 15, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Is possible to keep some code closed in Pharo?

by Ricardo Pacheco

Thanks a lot for the info!! -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Oct. 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Bloc Example Errors & question

by Ricardo Pacheco

Really impressive Alex, congratulations and thanks for the great work. Just as a feedback, I tried the examples again with a new image+bloc, under windows 10, and now most of the examples run but others still don't, like all the Animation, MobilePhone, Selectionand some in the Benchmarks. Thanks a lot Ricardo -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Oct. 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Music beat detection and 60FPS graphics on Pharo?

by phil＠highoctane.be

Thanks, I'll try that out! Phil On Sat, Oct 14, 2017 at 5:36 PM, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Phil, > > I did that using Ronie's OpenAL binding and Merwann's wav parser back in > 2014-2015: > > MCSmalltalkhubRepository > owner: 'ronsaldo' > project: 'OpenAL' > > MCSmalltalkhubRepository > owner: 'MerwanOuddane' > project: 'WAVParser' > > I did things such as (build yourself something derived from this code I > did not check if it works): > > MyClass>>example > WAVParser wavFromStream: ('resources/music/spellNoise.wav' > asFileReference readStream binary readStream). > contextAttributes := ALContextAttributes new. > device := OpenALC openDefaultDevice. > context := device createContext: contextAttributes asList. > context process. > context currentDuring: [ > "Create the buffer" > buffer := self makeBufferFromHeader: wav header data: wav data asByteArray. > "Create the source" > source := OpenAL genSource. > OpenAL sourcei: source param: AL_BUFFER value: buffer. > "Play the source" > OpenAL sourcePlay: source. > "Play for sometime " > (Delay forSeconds: wav header soundDuration) wait. > "Delete the source and the buffer" > OpenAL deleteSource: source; > deleteBuffer: buffer > ]. > OpenALC nullCurrentContext. > context destroy. > device close. > > MyClass>>makeBufferFromHeader: header data: data > | buffer | > buffer := OpenAL genBuffer. > OpenAL bufferData: buffer format: (self readFormatFromHeader: header) > data: data size: data size freq: header sampleRate. > ^ buffer > > MyClass>>readFormatFromHeader: header > ^ header channels = 1 > ifTrue: [ > header bitsPerSample = 8 > ifTrue: [ AL_FORMAT_MONO8 ] > ifFalse: [ AL_FORMAT_MONO16 ] ] > ifFalse: [ > header bitsPerSample = 8 > ifTrue: [ AL_FORMAT_STEREO8 ] > ifFalse: [ AL_FORMAT_STEREO16 ] ] > > I am pretty sure with a little work those things could work again. I have > never succeeded in playing mp3 files from Pharo though (but I'm on mac and > I remembered trying solutions that did not work on Mac but may work on > other OS). > > Have fun guys :-) > > On Sat, Oct 14, 2017 at 10:01 AM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> > wrote: > >> I'd like to do something like this: https://www.youtube.com/ >> watch?v=vL7D4eU0lYE >> >> to showcase FFI, Bloc, and the Pharo liveliness. >> >> And once I get the basics working, level up in getting it working in a VR >> headset. >> >> Is there anyone having a binding to a library for dealing with the sound >> part, like FMod or other things like that? >> >> I see this as a medium term project, so, like I can get it working by the >> end of the year. >> >> TIA >> >> Phil >> > > > > -- > ClÃ©ment BÃ©ra > Pharo consortium engineer > https://clementbera.wordpress.com/ > BÃ¢timent B 40, avenue Halley 59650 > <https://maps.google.com/?q=40,+avenue+Halley+59650%C2%A0Villeneuve+d'Ascq&entry=gmail&source=g>Villeneuve > d > <https://maps.google.com/?q=40,+avenue+Halley+59650%C2%A0Villeneuve+d'Ascq&entry=gmail&source=g> > 'Ascq > <https://maps.google.com/?q=40,+avenue+Halley+59650%C2%A0Villeneuve+d'Ascq&entry=gmail&source=g> >

Oct. 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Music beat detection and 60FPS graphics on Pharo?

by ClÃ©ment Bera

Hi Phil, I did that using Ronie's OpenAL binding and Merwann's wav parser back in 2014-2015: MCSmalltalkhubRepository owner: 'ronsaldo' project: 'OpenAL' MCSmalltalkhubRepository owner: 'MerwanOuddane' project: 'WAVParser' I did things such as (build yourself something derived from this code I did not check if it works): MyClass>>example WAVParser wavFromStream: ('resources/music/spellNoise.wav' asFileReference readStream binary readStream). contextAttributes := ALContextAttributes new. device := OpenALC openDefaultDevice. context := device createContext: contextAttributes asList. context process. context currentDuring: [ "Create the buffer" buffer := self makeBufferFromHeader: wav header data: wav data asByteArray. "Create the source" source := OpenAL genSource. OpenAL sourcei: source param: AL_BUFFER value: buffer. "Play the source" OpenAL sourcePlay: source. "Play for sometime " (Delay forSeconds: wav header soundDuration) wait. "Delete the source and the buffer" OpenAL deleteSource: source; deleteBuffer: buffer ]. OpenALC nullCurrentContext. context destroy. device close. MyClass>>makeBufferFromHeader: header data: data | buffer | buffer := OpenAL genBuffer. OpenAL bufferData: buffer format: (self readFormatFromHeader: header) data: data size: data size freq: header sampleRate. ^ buffer MyClass>>readFormatFromHeader: header ^ header channels = 1 ifTrue: [ header bitsPerSample = 8 ifTrue: [ AL_FORMAT_MONO8 ] ifFalse: [ AL_FORMAT_MONO16 ] ] ifFalse: [ header bitsPerSample = 8 ifTrue: [ AL_FORMAT_STEREO8 ] ifFalse: [ AL_FORMAT_STEREO16 ] ] I am pretty sure with a little work those things could work again. I have never succeeded in playing mp3 files from Pharo though (but I'm on mac and I remembered trying solutions that did not work on Mac but may work on other OS). Have fun guys :-) On Sat, Oct 14, 2017 at 10:01 AM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: > I'd like to do something like this: https://www.youtube.com/ > watch?v=vL7D4eU0lYE > > to showcase FFI, Bloc, and the Pharo liveliness. > > And once I get the basics working, level up in getting it working in a VR > headset. > > Is there anyone having a binding to a library for dealing with the sound > part, like FMod or other things like that? > > I see this as a medium term project, so, like I can get it working by the > end of the year. > > TIA > > Phil > -- ClÃ©ment BÃ©ra Pharo consortium engineer https://clementbera.wordpress.com/ BÃ¢timent B 40, avenue Halley 59650 Villeneuve d'Ascq

Oct. 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Bloc Example Errors & question

by Sean P. DeNigris

Aliaksei Syrel wrote > During esug Ronie told me that using UFFI-OpenGL is not the best approach. > â Don't leave us hanging! What is the right/better approach?! ----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Oct. 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] "Building-With versus Building-on"

by H. Hirzel

Hello Serge https://ummisco.github.io/kendrick/ https://github.com/UMMISCO/kendrick :-) Maybe you can refer to a report how it was used? --Hannes On 10/14/17, Serge Stinckwich <serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Sat, Oct 14, 2017 at 11:50 AM, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> On 10/12/17, Andrew Glynn <aglynn42(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > https://medium.com/@dasein42/building-with-versus-building-on-c51aa3034 >> > c71 >> > This is an article not specifically about Pharo, rather on the state of >> > the industry >> > in general and how it got that way, but positing Pharo as a way to >> > learn >> > building-on rather than building-with, where in the latter case on >> > every project you start at essentially the same place. >> > As a result it does put in front of people a fair amount of info on >> > Pharo, and challenges them to try it. >> > >> > cheersAndrew Glynn >> >> >> Thank you for this comprehensive report. >> >> Do you have a reference for more info about the epidemiology project >> which was completed in only a months time? [1] >> >> -- Hannes >> >> >> >> [1] <citation> >> After Google spent millions failing to solve the epedemiology of the >> Ebola outbreak, an application built with it, or rather on it, by one >> developer in an extremely short timespan (under a month), successfully >> predicted the path and allowed it to be stopped by vaccinating those >> in the most likely path. Google themselves took notice, and their Dart >> language, while using syntax similar to the JavaScript many of their >> developers are familiar with, uses the object model from the OSS >> Smalltalk. The problem is not simply a matter of how much engineers >> enjoy their work, but it can be a life or death matter, as it was in >> the case of the Toyota microcode. >> </citation> >> >> â > Yes I'm also interested by this. > Never heard this before :-) > > -- > Serge Stinckwich > UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC/UY1) > "Programs must be written for people to read, and only incidentally for > machines to execute."http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/ >

Oct. 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Music beat detection and 60FPS graphics on Pharo?

by Norbert Hartl

> Am 14.10.2017 um 14:22 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > > > >> On 14 Oct 2017, at 11:05, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: >> >> I think that should be easy. I did something like that for a club installation in the early 2000. Squeak had line-in sound and a FFT library. Combined with Morphic a super tool for doing fun stuff. > > Picturing Norbert as a DJ â¦ > It's VJ ;) Norbert >> Norbert >> Am 14.10.2017 um 10:01 schrieb "phil(a)highoctane.be" <phil(a)highoctane.be>: >> >>> I'd like to do something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL7D4eU0lYE >>> >>> to showcase FFI, Bloc, and the Pharo liveliness. >>> >>> And once I get the basics working, level up in getting it working in a VR headset. >>> >>> Is there anyone having a binding to a library for dealing with the sound part, like FMod or other things like that? >>> >>> I see this as a medium term project, so, like I can get it working by the end of the year. >>> >>> TIA >>> >>> Phil

Oct. 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Music beat detection and 60FPS graphics on Pharo?

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 14 Oct 2017, at 11:05, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > > I think that should be easy. I did something like that for a club installation in the early 2000. Squeak had line-in sound and a FFT library. Combined with Morphic a super tool for doing fun stuff. Picturing Norbert as a DJ ... > Norbert > Am 14.10.2017 um 10:01 schrieb "phil(a)highoctane.be" <phil(a)highoctane.be>: > >> I'd like to do something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL7D4eU0lYE >> >> to showcase FFI, Bloc, and the Pharo liveliness. >> >> And once I get the basics working, level up in getting it working in a VR headset. >> >> Is there anyone having a binding to a library for dealing with the sound part, like FMod or other things like that? >> >> I see this as a medium term project, so, like I can get it working by the end of the year. >> >> TIA >> >> Phil

Oct. 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Bloc Example Errors & question

by Aliaksei Syrel

Hi Ricardo, Some examples such as example3D are meant to be experimental, so I moved them a bit far away from main examples. Additionally, we deprecated position: and it took some time to update examples, but now they should work :) In order to connect elements with lines you would need to use BlLineElement. Corresponding examples can be found in Bloc-Examples-Line category. In attachment I send a short video showing how lines behave when anchor elements are dragged/resized. â Bloc-LineExamples.mov <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-bMBVDOi3oTb1ZlVXVnS1ZlQTg/view?usp=drive…> â P.S. Just for fun I also attached a video of example3D. It is nothing special, just shows how to integrate OpenGL in Bloc. During esug Ronie told me that using UFFI-OpenGL is not the best approach. â Bloc-example3D.mov <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-bMBVDOi3oTYzBiZVZyOGxOYU0/view?usp=drive…> â Cheers, Alex On 14 October 2017 at 00:55, Ricardo Pacheco <ricardo.pacheco.roldan@gmail. com> wrote: > I was reviewing the Bloc examples because I'm looking for a way to connect > several blocks like this: <http://forum.world.st/file/t370703/muestra.png > > > . The idea is that if I move the block, the link with other blocks is kept. > I could not find any similar example. Any hint would be appreciated. > > Also, while reviewing the examples in the latest Pharo 6, some crashed and > a > couple even let Pharo unresponsive: > > BlBasicExamples >> example3D (crash) > BlBasicExamples >> exampleWithImage > BlBenchmark >> example_821nestedEl_in1000x1000_mouseMove50ms (crash) > BlMobilePhone >> open > > Thanks > > Ricardo > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > > ââââ

Oct. 14, 2017

Fwd: [Pharo-dev] Let's prepare for Google Code-In 2017 with Pharo Consortium

by Serge Stinckwich

Dear Jigyasa, thank you for your hard work for promoting Pharo ! I followup your message to the Pharo-users mailing-list. If you want to help Pharo in a concrete way, please join the mentors team and try to propose exercices. Regards, ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jigyasa Grover <grover.jigyasa1(a)gmail.com> Date: Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 11:27 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] Let's prepare for Google Code-In 2017 with Pharo Consortium To: pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org Hello Pharo-ers ! On behalf of the community, I would like to thank each one of you for their significant contribution in the recently concluded *Google Summer of Code 2017* with *Pharo Consortium*. We aspire to take-off on a long flight after this successful stint. In this spirit, I proposed at ESUG 2017 that we take part in the upcoming *Google Code-In 2017*. GCI is a contest to introduce pre-university students (ages 13-17) to open source software development. Because Google Code-in is often the first experience many students have with open source, the contest is designed to make it easy for students to jump right in with /bite-sized tasks/ (3 to 5 days) having categorised as: Code, Documentation/Training, Outreach/Research, Quality Assurance, or User Interface. Students search for a task from the list created by us that interests them and claim it. They have at least three days to complete it. The student works on the task, getting guidance from mentors, if needed. Once the student is ready, they submit their work for review through the contest website. Mentors from the organisation evaluate the work, provide feedback, and if it's complete, accept it so that student can claim a new task. Otherwise, specific feedback is provided, and the student goes back to improving it. Participants who complete at least 1 task get a digital certificate. Participants who complete 3 or more tasks receive a t-shirt too. At the end of the contest, each organisation chooses five finalists to receive limited edition Google Code-in hoodies. Two finalists from each organisation get to be the grand prize winners and go on a trip to Google Headquarters in California ! The contest begins for students on November 28, 2017 at 09:00 (PST). *With organisation applications closing on October 24, 2017*, we need to be well prepared for this seasonâs application with a hope to get selected. As an open source evangelist and a Pharo developer, I would like to invite all the experienced members to be a part of the "GCI with Pharo Consortium" Team and mentor students. To get added to the âprivate repositoryâ (we need to keep prospective students away from the task list before the program begins ð ) where you can put in your tasks/suggestions kindly EMail me or any of the previously added mentor. Looking forward to an appreciable representation from the Pharo community. Best regards Jigyasa Grover Pharo Consortium Org Admin, Google Summer of Code 2017 [hidden email] Link to know more about GCI: https://codein.withgoogle.com/archive/ <https://codein.withgoogle.com/archive/ > Link to sample tasks: https://developers.google.com/open-source/gci/resources/example-tasks <https://developers.google.com/open-source/gci/resources/example-tasks> Link to FAQs: https://developers.google.com/open-source/gci/faq <https://developers.google.com/open-source/gci/faq > Link to contest rules: https://developers.google.com/open-source/gci/resources/contest-rules <https://developers.google.com/open-source/gci/resources/contest-rules> Link to GCI presentation for outreach: https://developers.google.com/open-source/gci/resources/ downloads/Google-Code-in-2016-slides.pdf <https://developers.google.com/open-source/gci/resources/ downloads/Google-Code-in-2016-slides.pdf> -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html -- Serge Stinckwich UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC/UY1) "Programs must be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute."http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

Oct. 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] "Building-With versus Building-on"

by Serge Stinckwich

On Sat, Oct 14, 2017 at 11:50 AM, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 10/12/17, Andrew Glynn <aglynn42(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > https://medium.com/@dasein42/building-with-versus-building-on-c51aa3034 > > c71 > > This is an article not specifically about Pharo, rather on the state of > > the industry > > in general and how it got that way, but positing Pharo as a way to > > learn > > building-on rather than building-with, where in the latter case on > > every project you start at essentially the same place. > > As a result it does put in front of people a fair amount of info on > > Pharo, and challenges them to try it. > > > > cheersAndrew Glynn > > > Thank you for this comprehensive report. > > Do you have a reference for more info about the epidemiology project > which was completed in only a months time? [1] > > -- Hannes > > > > [1] <citation> > After Google spent millions failing to solve the epedemiology of the > Ebola outbreak, an application built with it, or rather on it, by one > developer in an extremely short timespan (under a month), successfully > predicted the path and allowed it to be stopped by vaccinating those > in the most likely path. Google themselves took notice, and their Dart > language, while using syntax similar to the JavaScript many of their > developers are familiar with, uses the object model from the OSS > Smalltalk. The problem is not simply a matter of how much engineers > enjoy their work, but it can be a life or death matter, as it was in > the case of the Toyota microcode. > </citation> > > â Yes I'm also interested by this. Never heard this before :-) -- Serge Stinckwich UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC/UY1) "Programs must be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute."http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

Oct. 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] "Building-With versus Building-on"

by H. Hirzel

On 10/12/17, Andrew Glynn <aglynn42(a)gmail.com> wrote: > https://medium.com/@dasein42/building-with-versus-building-on-c51aa3034 > c71 > This is an article not specifically about Pharo, rather on the state of > the industry > in general and how it got that way, but positing Pharo as a way to > learn > building-on rather than building-with, where in the latter case on > every project you start at essentially the same place. > As a result it does put in front of people a fair amount of info on > Pharo, and challenges them to try it. > > cheersAndrew Glynn Thank you for this comprehensive report. Do you have a reference for more info about the epidemiology project which was completed in only a months time? [1] -- Hannes [1] <citation> After Google spent millions failing to solve the epedemiology of the Ebola outbreak, an application built with it, or rather on it, by one developer in an extremely short timespan (under a month), successfully predicted the path and allowed it to be stopped by vaccinating those in the most likely path. Google themselves took notice, and their Dart language, while using syntax similar to the JavaScript many of their developers are familiar with, uses the object model from the OSS Smalltalk. The problem is not simply a matter of how much engineers enjoy their work, but it can be a life or death matter, as it was in the case of the Toyota microcode. </citation>

Oct. 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] "Building-With versus Building-on"

by A. Glynn

The problem is that it takes 1233 pages of config, and that's the summary page of my config, and it uses 15GB RAM, on my laptop, lol. On Sat, Oct 14, 2017 at 1:10 AM, jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de < jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de> wrote: > > > Am 12.10.17 um 20:04 schrieb Dimitris Chloupis: > >> >> Eclispe , which I will disagree with your that is not the worst IDE, >> started as a smalltalk IDE and then it got Eclipsed. I am sure those people >> had a "build on" environment , still it got messy. We can blame porting to >> Java, but can we really blame Java for the mess that is called >> "Eclipse".... ehhhh.... nope. >> >> Eclipse was never implemented in Smalltalk. Its predecessor, VisualAge > for Java (and parts of the other VisualAge family members) was. Eclipse was > started as a replacement for VisualAge for Java because Java develoers > didn't like VisualAge for its emulation of an image based environement. It > was a very nice IDE for Java (the best I've known), but it wasn't a nice > home for developers who think in files. > These days Eclipse, IMO, does emulate an image as good as possible, but > nobody cares anymore, because it hides the fact and lets you think in files > ;-) > > Joachim > > -- Andrew Glynn 512-818-3291

Oct. 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Music beat detection and 60FPS graphics on Pharo?

by Norbert Hartl

I think that should be easy. I did something like that for a club installation in the early 2000. Squeak had line-in sound and a FFT library. Combined with Morphic a super tool for doing fun stuff. Norbert > Am 14.10.2017 um 10:01 schrieb "phil(a)highoctane.be" <phil(a)highoctane.be>: > > I'd like to do something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL7D4eU0lYE > > to showcase FFI, Bloc, and the Pharo liveliness. > > And once I get the basics working, level up in getting it working in a VR headset. > > Is there anyone having a binding to a library for dealing with the sound part, like FMod or other things like that? > > I see this as a medium term project, so, like I can get it working by the end of the year. > > TIA > > Phil

Oct. 14, 2017

Music beat detection and 60FPS graphics on Pharo?

by phil＠highoctane.be

I'd like to do something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL7D4eU0lYE to showcase FFI, Bloc, and the Pharo liveliness. And once I get the basics working, level up in getting it working in a VR headset. Is there anyone having a binding to a library for dealing with the sound part, like FMod or other things like that? I see this as a medium term project, so, like I can get it working by the end of the year. TIA Phil

Oct. 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] "Building-With versus Building-on"

by Dimitris Chloupis

I stand corrected On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 at 08:11, jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de < jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de> wrote: > > > Am 12.10.17 um 20:04 schrieb Dimitris Chloupis: > > > > Eclispe , which I will disagree with your that is not the worst IDE, > > started as a smalltalk IDE and then it got Eclipsed. I am sure those > > people had a "build on" environment , still it got messy. We can blame > > porting to Java, but can we really blame Java for the mess that is > > called "Eclipse".... ehhhh.... nope. > > > Eclipse was never implemented in Smalltalk. Its predecessor, VisualAge > for Java (and parts of the other VisualAge family members) was. Eclipse > was started as a replacement for VisualAge for Java because Java > develoers didn't like VisualAge for its emulation of an image based > environement. It was a very nice IDE for Java (the best I've known), but > it wasn't a nice home for developers who think in files. > These days Eclipse, IMO, does emulate an image as good as possible, but > nobody cares anymore, because it hides the fact and lets you think in > files ;-) > > Joachim > >

Oct. 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] "Building-With versus Building-on"

by jtuchel＠objektfabrik.de

Am 12.10.17 um 20:04 schrieb Dimitris Chloupis: > > Eclispe , which I will disagree with your that is not the worst IDE, > started as a smalltalk IDE and then it got Eclipsed. I am sure those > people had a "build on" environment , still it got messy. We can blame > porting to Java, but can we really blame Java for the mess that is > called "Eclipse".... ehhhh.... nope. > Eclipse was never implemented in Smalltalk. Its predecessor, VisualAge for Java (and parts of the other VisualAge family members) was. Eclipse was started as a replacement for VisualAge for Java because Java develoers didn't like VisualAge for its emulation of an image based environement. It was a very nice IDE for Java (the best I've known), but it wasn't a nice home for developers who think in files. These days Eclipse, IMO, does emulate an image as good as possible, but nobody cares anymore, because it hides the fact and lets you think in files ;-) Joachim

Oct. 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

by Dimitris Chloupis

I donât care about Python vs Pharo debate. I love both I use both. My ultimate goal is to unite the two under a single Uber powerful live coding environment part of my project Atlas. With direct mapping between Pharo and Python objects and no compromises. A workflow that will be seamless that you wonât know if you use Python or Pharo libraries as the Atlas environment will allow you to work with both languages in a symbiotic relationship. That was a dream of mine that I did not dear to reveal now slowly and steadily becomes reality. I am extending the live coding environment of python and later will tackle the subject of a python image format. Already Atlas can use python libraries from Pharo but thatâs about it , but after this revelation I can move to stage 2 of full synchronization between Python and Pharo. Even now Atlas allows you to use Pharo syntax to fully access Python libraries. But integration is skin deep and is what is going to improve the next years. So it seems something good came out of this very long discussion. Atlas is going for a big update. This thread has been a huge inspiration for me. Super excited :) On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 at 03:40, Andrew Glynn <aglynn42(a)gmail.com> wrote: > The first language I played with, I was nearly 5, was a live environment, > Forth. I used it on an old PDP my mother had bought that was being > surplused at the company she worked at. I used Forth until I was in my > early teens, it was far superior to the BASIC that most other kids I knew > who knew any programming used. It wasn't Smalltalk, but in many of the > areas it was used (production automation is one major area), the language > that most often replaced it *was* Smalltalk. > > The biggest difference, for me, as I wrote in the article the other day, > is the ability to build-on rather than build-with, which in turn is based > on the environment being written in itself. Ruby *looks* very much like > Smalltalk, but it *works* like Java; Python works *more* like Smalltalk, > and it's a much better live environment than Java or Ruby, because more of > it is written in itself, but too much of Python is written in C, and that > causes problems. If the code that interprets/compiles your code follows the > same rules, the machine code it generates will usually also follow the same > rules, and those rules/restrictions are, for the most part, designed to > make code more reliable. > > As well, RVM has proven Smalltalk (specifically Squeak / Pharo, though > admittedly an older version) can scale to 1024 cores nearly linearly. > > Python has a decent developer base but it's almost all OSS and almost all > on Linux. Very few applications in Python are in areas where reliability is > absolutely necessary, or even all that important. Like Smalltalk, it's a > general purpose language in a niche, but the niches are very different. For > years, decades really, any good version of Smalltalk cost an arm and a leg > (some of them both of each), and as a result it tended to be used only > where things really *had* to work. > > Pharo is a great OSS Smalltalk, IMHO by the best to date (Squeak was/is > good, but the LaF was never professional enough for it to be taken as > seriously as it deserves, it just looks too much like a toy although in > reality it's very powerful). Having the capability to build-on a reliable, > attractive and enjoyable base without signing over my great-grand-child's > first born is fantastic, and a great achievement for those who accomplished > it. > > Kendrick is an example of what can be done if you build-*on*: it was > built on Moose, which is built on Glamorous, which is built on Morphic, > which itself is based on a couple of decades work olving the basic problems > inherent to UI's and MVC-type UI's in particular. Kendrick itself was > written in a very short time when you compare it with other epidemiology > programs, *if* you only count the time spent on Kendrick itself. It's an > inherently complex problem area, and it's a life or death problem area. > That an application capable of working reliably enough to be trusted in > that area was built in a short time, because it was built-on a couple of > decades of OSS work, is a huge compliment to those who were involved. > > Unfortunately for me, I wasn't, âº. But at least I can take advantage of it > existence now. > > Andrew > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > *Date*: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 21:18:28 +0000 > *Subject*: Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk > *To*: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org > <Any%20question%20about%20pharo%20is%20welcome%20%3cpharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org%3e> > > > Reply-to: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org > > > *From*: Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com > <Dimitris%20Chloupis%20%3ckilon.alios(a)gmail.com%3e>> > Wise not to mention Ruby and Python and Pick the worst of the worst in > OOP. Because frankly the competition for Pharo against those two behemoths > can be quite brutal in the flexibility and power of OOP. > > And no , these language can do live coding with ease. I know because I > currently code live coding style with Python for an app I am making. Sure > it wont provide you with a live system out of the box, but put in 10 lines > of code and you already ready to go with hardcore live coding. At least > Python , Ruby being practically a rip off of Smalltalk language may need > even less. > > iPython which by the way is by far the most popular Python tool is the > real deal, a full blow live coding enviroment. > > To my suprise its not even hard to do live coding with C/C++ including > using image format. To my shock live coding is actually supported by both > the OS and the hardware. Hardware has its own exception system , OS has an > image flie format called "memory mapped files" used for DLLs and a lot of > essential functionality. > > For some weird reason however its well hidden and not that much utilised > by coders. They really love long compile times, dont ask me why. > > But yeah C++ even though it has come a long way with its template system, > its still the king of ugly. That sytax, oh the horrors of that syntax..... > yiaks !!! > > I am so enternal greatful that Pharo introduced me to live coding and > opened my eyes to universe of fun and productivity. I cannot imagine coding > an other way ever again. > > I really hope that we take this further though. > > On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 1:31 PM horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk > < > https://medium.com/smalltalk-talk/behold-pharo-the-modern-smalltalk-38e132c… > > > > If you would like to suggest some edits, I'm all ears. Anything to improve > the impact of the article. > > Thanks. > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > > >

Oct. 14, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

by Andrew Glynn

The first language I played with, I was nearly 5, was a live environment, Forth.Â Â I used it on an old PDP my mother had bought that was being surplused at the company she worked at.Â Â I used Forth until I was in my early teens, it was far superior to the BASIC that most other kids I knew who knew any programming used.Â Â It wasn't Smalltalk, but in many of the areas it was used (production automation is one major area), the language that most often replaced it was Smalltalk.Â Â The biggest difference, for me, as I wrote in the article the other day, is the ability to build-on rather than build-with, which in turn is based on the environment being written in itself. Ruby looks very much like Smalltalk, but it works like Java; Python works more like Smalltalk, and it's a much better live environment than Java or Ruby, because more of it is written in itself, but too much of Python is written in C, and that causes problems. If the code that interprets/compiles your code follows the same rules, the machine code it generates will usually also follow the same rules, and those rules/restrictions are, for the most part, designed to make code more reliable.Â As well, RVM has proven Smalltalk (specifically Squeak / Pharo, though admittedly an older version) can scale to 1024 cores nearly linearly.Â Â Python has a decent developer base but it's almost all OSS and almost all on Linux. Very few applications in Python are in areas where reliability is absolutely necessary, or even all that important. Â Like Smalltalk, it's a general purpose language in a niche, but the niches are very different. For years, decades really, any good version of Smalltalk cost an arm and a leg (some of them both of each), and as a result it tended to be used only where things really had to work. Â Pharo is a great OSS Smalltalk, IMHO by the best to date (Squeak was/is good, but the LaF was never professional enough for it to be taken as seriously as it deserves, it just looks too much like a toy although in reality it's very powerful). Having the capability to build-on a reliable, attractive and enjoyable base without signing over my great- grand-child's first born is fantastic, and a great achievement for those who accomplished it. Kendrick is an example of what can be done if you build-on:Â Â it was built on Moose, which is built on Glamorous, which is built on Morphic, which itself is based on a couple of decades work olving the basic problems inherent to UI's and MVC-type UI's in particular.Â Â Kendrick itself was written in a very short time when you compare it with other epidemiology programs, if you only count the time spent on Kendrick itself.Â Â It's an inherently complex problem area, and it's a life or death problem area. That an application capable of working reliably enough to be trusted in that area was built in a short time, because it was built-on a couple of decades of OSS work, is a huge compliment to those who were involved.Â Â Unfortunately for me, I wasn't, âº.Â Â But at least I can take advantage of it existence now. Andrew -----Original Message----- Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 21:18:28 +0000Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern SmalltalkTo: Any question about pharo is welcome <pha ro-users(a)lists.pharo.org>Reply-to: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org>From: Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios@gmail .com>Wise not to mention Ruby and Python and Pick the worst of the worst in OOP. Because frankly the competition for Pharo against those two behemoths can be quite brutal in the flexibility and power of OOP.Â And no , these language can do live coding with ease. I know because I currently code live coding style with Python for an app I am making. Sure it wont provide you with a live system out of the box, but put in 10 lines of code and you already ready to go with hardcore live coding. At least Python , Ruby being practically a rip off of Smalltalk language may need even less.Â iPython which by the way is by far the most popular Python tool is the real deal, a full blow live coding enviroment.Â To my suprise its not even hard to do live coding with C/C++ including using image format. To my shock live coding is actually supported by both the OS and the hardware. Hardware has its own exception system , OS has an image flie format called "memory mapped files" used for DLLs and a lot of essential functionality.Â For some weird reason however its well hidden and not that much utilised by coders. They really love long compile times, dont ask me why.Â But yeah C++ even though it has come a long way with its template system, its still the king of ugly. That sytax, oh the horrors of that syntax..... yiaks !!! I am so enternal greatful that Pharo introduced me to live coding and opened my eyes to universe of fun and productivity. I cannot imagine coding an other way ever again.Â I really hope that we take this further though.Â On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 1:31 PM horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk > > <https://medium.com/smalltalk-talk/behold-pharo-the-modern-smalltalk- > 38e132c46053> > > > > If you would like to suggest some edits, I'm all ears. Anything to > improve > > the impact of the article. > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > -- > > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > > > >

Oct. 14, 2017

Bloc Example Errors & question

by Ricardo Pacheco

I was reviewing the Bloc examples because I'm looking for a way to connect several blocks like this: <http://forum.world.st/file/t370703/muestra.png> . The idea is that if I move the block, the link with other blocks is kept. I could not find any similar example. Any hint would be appreciated. Also, while reviewing the examples in the latest Pharo 6, some crashed and a couple even let Pharo unresponsive: BlBasicExamples >> example3D (crash) BlBasicExamples >> exampleWithImage BlBenchmark >> example_821nestedEl_in1000x1000_mouseMove50ms (crash) BlMobilePhone >> open Thanks Ricardo -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Oct. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

by Nicolai Hess

2017-10-13 22:04 GMT+02:00 Andrew Glynn <aglynn42(a)gmail.com>: > I understand why it occurs, both the private and the final keyword > affect the reference rather than the object. However, to quote someone > else "That the value of a private field can be changed without a public > setter implies that encapsulation is weak at best, and shouldn't be > counted on to protect key values, even in combination with the final > keyword." Even that comment, though, brings in the notion of a 'value' > that's not an object. > and who did you quote ? > > My point initially was not about the code, but about the Java API doc > that also claims attempting to change the *value* will result in a compile > error. Although keywords affect references, the documentation states > that it affects 'the value', which is at best ambiguous. > I can not see what is wrong here. You are problably confused by - the value of a *variable* - and the value an *object* represents (its object state) the first can not be changed for a final variables the last can only be preserved, if the object is immutable. > There are also numerous issues around type erasure > ... this seems a bit off topic > I'd rather have *no* API documentation than documentation of the sort > represented by the Java API doc. > I think a java api doc like documentation would help. For newcomers, that not yet know ( or know how to find) the in-image help. And even so we can easily browse our code with comments and class comments, an API-doc could provide the help from a different view (group by collaboration rather then by class hierarchy or packages), give an "overall" view or provide additional code examples. > Not that I think it's all > intentional, though perhaps the primitives and scalars that are in fact > objects > How are java primitives "in fact" objects ? They are "in fact" primitives. This is different from smalltakl where some *objects* like Smallinteger are implemented as primitives (or immediates) but still objects on the (smalltalk) code level. > and collections may have been to muffle wailing from C/C++ > programmers that the lack of primitives and scalars would kill > performance. I suspect it's more often a result of unsuccessfully > mode-switching, though, between the rules of the language you're > implementing and those of the language you're implementing *in*, but that > only makes the case for languages implemented in themselves stronger. > > Andrew > > > -----Original Message----- > > Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 18:39:59 +0200 > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk > To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> > Reply-to: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo- > users(a)lists.pharo.org> > From: Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com> > > > Am 13.10.2017 5:50 PM schrieb "Andrew Glynn" <aglynn42(a)gmail.com>: > I can't remember ever using API docs in any language, dynamic or not. > They give you the method signatures, but if you have, say, methodX(int, > int, String), how are you supposed to guess what ints and what String > the method actually needs, > > > Isn't this exactly what an apidoc is for? Additional documentation to > describe the methods and arguments purpose. > > Maybe you have just seen poorly documented libraries? > > > One of my favourite language fails can be reproduced by doing this: > > Declare a field private final in Java, initializing it either in the > declaration or the constructor, and provide only a getter. Use the getter > from another class and change the value of the local variable. Then use the > getter again, but assign the value to a new local variable, and check the > value. > > > > Maybe you should re-read about javas final keyword. > It is not to meant making something immutable , > you can just not reassign a new value. > > Java final != c++ const > > > >

Oct. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] FYI about Pharo MOOC

by Dimitris Chloupis

I have to confess I am a fan of the french accent english too , it has a nice musicality in it +1 for subtitles. I love accents, the more the better :D On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 9:28 PM Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: > In fact the files have two tracks. > > > On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 8:13 PM, Andrew Glynn <aglynn42(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Oh good, glad the French version is still there. I was starting to go >> through it a couple of weeks ago and plan to continue starting this >> weekend. Although my mother tongue is English, at one point I was >> fluently bilingual (both Quebecois and actual French), and it's a >> chance to get some of it back while picking up information I've likely >> missed >> on less obvious features. >> >> I can understand French well enough, but the more I hear it spoken >> the better. Reading/writing don't get rusty as easily. >> >> Of course speaking it would be even better, but I don't get many >> chances to do so in Toronto âº. >> >> Andrew >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 18:06:17 +0200 >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] FYI about Pharo MOOC >> To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> >> Reply-to: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo- >> users(a)lists.pharo.org> >> From: Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> >> The production company told us that it was super strange without our >> voices. >> Now you can also have the french + subtitles. >> >> On Fri, Oct 13, >> 2017 at 2:42 PM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: >> >> I played C019SD- >> W1-S1-EN-V1.mp4 >> and as well as the english voice, in the >> background I >> can still hear your >> original french voice. >> I'm curious the >> rea >> soning for >> this. >> >> cheers -ben >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 3:59 AM, Stephane Ducasse <step >> haro.self(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> I'm about to release the en versions. >> you can >> find them unofficially on http://www.stephaneducasse.eu/MOOC/ >> >> Stef >> >> On >> Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 10:10 PM, Gour <gour(a)atmarama.com> wrote: >> >> On Tue, >> 10 Oct 2017 21:31:55 +0200 >> Stephane Ducasse >> <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Hello Stef, >> >> I will ask one guy thursday and let you know. >> >> >> Thanks a >> lot! >> >> We will release Mooc with english voices (not mine else english >> nati >> ves would get an heart attack - I have what they call a sexy >> french >> accents ;) >> >> >> I did watch few of your Pharo-related presentations and, >> although not >> native, >> happily survived. :-) >> >> Moreover, I'd say that your >> English is charming! At least, one is sure >> that the >> real human is >> speaking and not some "robot" put on auto-pilot, so if the >> new >> Mooc is >> going to be the same as the current/old one, I'd prefer to >> download >> the >> current files and watched them along with *.srt subtitles? >> >> Iow. my point >> is that the accent is just one part of the talk/teaching, >> but the >> energy >> behind it is much more imporant - this is, my conviction, based >> on my >> own >> teaching experiences. >> >> >> Sincerely, >> Gour >> >> -- >> From anger, complete delusion >> arises, and from delusion >> bewilderment of memory. When memory is >> bewildered, >> intelligence is lost, and when intelligence is lost >> one falls >> down again into the material pool. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >

Oct. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Is possible to keep some code closed in Pharo?

by Dimitris Chloupis

If you make a morph maximise and pin it down, it will cover the entire pharo windows and wont be movable and will make it impossible for the user to interact with the IDE even via shorcuts. If I am wrong on shortcuts I hope someone correct me but last time I checked that was the case. Command line wise, command line api is very elegant, very simple to add and remove arguments. Those will block the user from controlling Pharo. Soruce code visibility: 1) What stef said, delte sources 2) If you use monticello the traditional way ,it saves in mcz files which are jus zip files with source code files inside. Created every time you save to a local or remote repo 3) Delete any fileouts, those produce st files too, smalltalk source code files 4) if you use filetree that uses source files too but generally you would pick a directory outside pharo 5) changes files also contain source code you modified or added 6) We hava new recovery tool, I forget the name, has its own file format I dont rememebr if it uses text files like changes, it might, check that out too. Generally anywhere you spot a file with st extension its a source code file, delete it or move it away. We may use an image format but we generate a ton of source code files for various reason as you can see. On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 8:27 PM Ricardo Pacheco < ricardo.pacheco.roldan(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Wow, that sounds great. Thanks a lot!! > > Ricardo > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > >

Oct. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

by Dimitris Chloupis

Well oh Well, Python is stupid.... Very, very stupid To my suprise live coding in Python its actually easier to what I expected and almost the same, from user perspective to that of pharo.Minus the IDE conveiniece of course. But a pain in the hat to find the proper way to do it. I was reloading modules, was thining of implementing become to python , which basically means replacing references to old instance object with references to new objects , then I thought that it would be more efficient to just reference the new methods to the instances and after a TON of testing I realized this is dead simple and for some reason python hides it very well. All the above were completely unecessary. Insance methods are referencing functions in the class object. Apparently functions in a class are taken as class methods and functions with self as first argument are considered instance methods. Which means I just copy paste the code of the method to the debugger, and assign it back to the existing live class and all instances are updated automagically. No need for become, no need to update instances manually no need to even reload the module. Similarly you can delete methods and add methods on the fly always live. Renaming a method is basically deleting and assigning . Renaming the class is the same. As is for class and instance variables. So anything can change on the fly. Names are there for your pleasure, in the end all that matters are the references.Its objects all the way down. The equivelant of a python instance method defiition and live updae , the python way, on Pharo would be MyClass instanceMethodName:= myMessage firstArg:self arg2: foo1 arg3: foo2.... |locals| code stuff and you python "call it" or message it MyClass insanceMethodName arg2:foo1 arg3: foo2 , no need to use self when calling it. Self is automatically passed because from the definition python knows this is suppose to be an insance method. or you could put a block after the assigment , because the name of the message is assigned by the assignment anyway, for class method you ommit the first argument of self. Calling is the same. This replaces a method or adds it if does not exist. All instances of that live class are immediately poitining to the new method. So the class is basically a collection of references. So all I have to do now is to wrap the copy paste and assignment in a single shortcut or button and I am ready to fly to live coding land. Days wasted chasing my tail but at least I learned a lot about python objects which are basically dictionaries objects (for variables) plus function objects (for class and instance methods) wrap inside an object, or rather referenced, called a class. Storing the live state , similar to fuel, is supported by the pickle library. Why on earth python made it so hard something so simple to understand ? no idea .I dont even need to make a live coding enviroment library as I assumed, its already there, hiding under the cover too scared to come out. Now I know why none or almost none does live coding in Python.

Oct. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

by Andrew Glynn

I understand why it occurs, both the private and the final keyword affect the reference rather than the object. However, to quote someone else "That the value of a private field can be changed without a public setter implies that encapsulation is weak at best, and shouldn't be counted on to protect key values, even in combination with the final keyword."Â Â Even that comment, though, brings in the notion of a 'value' that's not an object. My point initially was not about the code, but about the Java API doc that also claims attempting to change the value will result in a compile error. Although keywords affect references, the documentation states that it affects 'the value', which is at best ambiguous. There's inevitably a conflation of passing by value and passing by reference in Java by former C/C++ programmers, since it looks like PBV to a C/C++ programmer while always in fact being PBR.Â Â When copying syntax inverting the meaning of the syntax is counterproductive.Â There are also numerous issues around type erasure (mainly that it works for collections, even simple collections such as vectors, but not for arrays) and the resulting need for Java to allow invalid type casts in certain cases even though they can result in uncaught runtime exceptions. Since the fact that they are invalid is explicit in the API doc, that they are allowed because there's no other way to do it is problematic. Using lambdas or the streaming API within Java EE is another undocumented problem, or set of problems ( it was good fortune for me personally - when some software using the streaming API in an EE container consistently failed and the developer had no idea why, the company gave me the project I implemented it in Pharo, âº ). Â Oracle did at one point have a note on the Java EE 7 download page to the effect that Java EE 7 shouldn't be used with Java SE 8, but that was 'disappeared' when Java SE 7 was no longer supported and Java EE 7 was still the latest version.Â Â Since Java EE 8 is not even on the horizon, while SE 9 is due 'any minute now', I have to wonder if EE is simply dead.Â Â The requests from IBM, SAP and others to take over EE imply they at least suspect the same. I'd rather have no API documentation than documentation of the sort represented by the Java API doc.Â Â Not that I think it's all intentional, though perhaps the primitives and scalars that are in fact objects and collections may have been to muffle wailingÂ from C/C++ programmers that the lack of primitives and scalars would kill performance.Â Â I suspect it's more often a result of unsuccessfully mode-switching, though, between the rules of the language you're implementing and those of the language you're implementing in, but that only makes the case for languages implemented in themselves stronger. Andrew -----Original Message----- Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 18:39:59 +0200 Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> Reply-to: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo- users(a)lists.pharo.org> From: Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)gmail.com> Am 13.10.2017 5:50 PM schrieb "Andrew Glynn" <aglynn42(a)gmail.com>: I can't remember ever using API docs in any language, dynamic or not.Â They give you the method signatures, but if you have, say, methodX(int, int, String), how are you supposed to guess what ints and what String the method actually needs, Isn't this exactly what an apidoc is for? Additional documentation to describe the methods andÂ Â arguments purpose.Â Maybe you have just seen poorly documented libraries? One of my favourite language fails can be reproduced by doing this:Â Declare a field private final in Java, initializing it either in the declaration or the constructor, and provide only a getter. Use the getter from another class and change the value of the local variable. Then use the getter again, but assign the value to a new local variable, and check the value. Â Maybe you should re-read about javasÂ final keyword. It is not to meant making something immutable , you can just not reassign a new value. Java final != c++ const

Oct. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Zinc release?

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Herby, > On 13 Oct 2017, at 14:37, Herby VojÄÃk <herby(a)mailbox.sk> wrote: > > Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: >> >>> On 12 Oct 2017, at 15:58, Herby VojÄÃk<herby(a)mailbox.sk> wrote: >>> >>> There are a few fixes out there for Zinc, not to mention convenience like ZnEntity class>> json:. Don't you consider releasing the new version (as I tried to update it by hand, it is not that easy, it has more components, to load HTTP I had to update Character-Encoding as well, so probably better if bumped as a group)? >>> >>> Herby >> >> That's what configurations are for, to track the latest development release in a consistent way. You just do >> >> ConfigurationOfZincHTTPComponents project bleedingEdge load. >> >> Provided you loaded a recent configuration. > > I'm nort sure I want the bleeding edge loaded, albeit for recent configuration, for the production code (thought not mission criticial about lives or millions of $$$). Also I don't know if configurations are updated after each change out there (it must be done by hand I presume). So I was asking if there isn't a time to release another stable one. > > If not, and I still want not the true bleeding edge, but a "it works for me" snapshot in time, to load specific version of ConfigurationOf... and the issue ... project bleedingEdge load? Will it load only those version that were bleedingEdge at that time? > >> See the class comment of ConfigurationOfZincHTTPComponents for more info. >> >> Sven There are only two branches/versions: the latest development branch (bleedingEdge, 'head', just all the latest versions of all packages) and specific released versions (that get an id that you can refer to). Doing a release is a manual process that comes down to fixing the bleedingEdge at a moment when I feel it is stable enough. There are no versions in between releases that you can refer to. AFAIK this is how most Pharo projects work, it is how I work in all my projects. Sven

Oct. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] FYI about Pharo MOOC

by Stephane Ducasse

In fact the files have two tracks. On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 8:13 PM, Andrew Glynn <aglynn42(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Oh good, glad the French version is still there. I was starting to go > through it a couple of weeks ago and plan to continue starting this > weekend. Although my mother tongue is English, at one point I was > fluently bilingual (both Quebecois and actual French), and it's a > chance to get some of it back while picking up information I've likely > missed > on less obvious features. > > I can understand French well enough, but the more I hear it spoken > the better. Reading/writing don't get rusty as easily. > > Of course speaking it would be even better, but I don't get many > chances to do so in Toronto âº. > > Andrew > > -----Original Message----- > > Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 18:06:17 +0200 > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] FYI about Pharo MOOC > To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> > Reply-to: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo- > users(a)lists.pharo.org> > From: Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> > The production company told us that it was super strange without our > voices. > Now you can also have the french + subtitles. > > On Fri, Oct 13, > 2017 at 2:42 PM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > > I played C019SD- > W1-S1-EN-V1.mp4 > and as well as the english voice, in the > background I > can still hear your > original french voice. > I'm curious the > rea > soning for > this. > > cheers -ben > > > On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 3:59 AM, Stephane Ducasse <step > haro.self(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > I'm about to release the en versions. > you can > find them unofficially on http://www.stephaneducasse.eu/MOOC/ > > Stef > > On > Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 10:10 PM, Gour <gour(a)atmarama.com> wrote: > > On Tue, > 10 Oct 2017 21:31:55 +0200 > Stephane Ducasse > <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > Hello Stef, > > I will ask one guy thursday and let you know. > > > Thanks a > lot! > > We will release Mooc with english voices (not mine else english > nati > ves would get an heart attack - I have what they call a sexy > french > accents ;) > > > I did watch few of your Pharo-related presentations and, > although not > native, > happily survived. :-) > > Moreover, I'd say that your > English is charming! At least, one is sure > that the > real human is > speaking and not some "robot" put on auto-pilot, so if the > new > Mooc is > going to be the same as the current/old one, I'd prefer to > download > the > current files and watched them along with *.srt subtitles? > > Iow. my point > is that the accent is just one part of the talk/teaching, > but the > energy > behind it is much more imporant - this is, my conviction, based > on my > own > teaching experiences. > > > Sincerely, > Gour > > -- > From anger, complete delusion > arises, and from delusion > bewilderment of memory. When memory is > bewildered, > intelligence is lost, and when intelligence is lost > one falls > down again into the material pool. > > > > > > >

Oct. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] FYI about Pharo MOOC

by Andrew Glynn

Oh good, glad the French version is still there.Â Â I was starting to go through it a couple of weeks ago and plan to continue starting this weekend.Â Â Although my mother tongue is English, at one point I was fluently bilingual (both Quebecois and actual French), and it's a chance to get some of it back while picking up information I've likely missed on less obvious features. I can understand French well enough, but the more I hear it spoken the better.Â Reading/writing don't get rusty as easily. Of course speaking it would be even better, but I don't get many chances to do so in Toronto âº. Andrew -----Original Message----- Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 18:06:17 +0200 Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] FYI about Pharo MOOC To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> Reply-to: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo- users(a)lists.pharo.org> From: Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> The production company told us that it was super strange without our voices. Now you can also have the french + subtitles. On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 2:42 PM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > I played C019SD-W1-S1-EN-V1.mp4and as well as the english voice, in > the > background Ican still hear youroriginal french voice.I'm curious > therea > soning forthis. > cheers -ben > > On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 3:59 AM, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self@gmai > l.com>wrote: > > I'm about to release the en versions.you canfind them unofficially > > on http://www.stephaneducasse.eu/MOOC/ > > Stef > > OnTue, Oct 10, 2017 at 10:10 PM, Gour <gour(a)atmarama.com> wrote: > > > On Tue, > > > 10 Oct 2017 21:31:55 +0200 > > > Stephane Ducasse > > > <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > Hello Stef, > > > > > > > I will ask one guy thursday and let you know. > > > > > > Thanks a > > > lot! > > > > > > > We will release Mooc with english voices (not mine else english > > > > nati > > > > ves would get an heart attack - I have what they call a sexy > > > > french > > > > accents ;) > > > > > > I did watch few of your Pharo-related presentations and, > > > although not > > > native, > > > happily survived. :-) > > > > > > Moreover, I'd say that your > > > English is charming! At least, one is sure > > > that the > > > real human is > > > speaking and not some "robot" put on auto-pilot, so if the > > > new > > > Mooc is > > > going to be the same as theÂ Â current/old one, I'd prefer to > > > download > > > the > > > current files and watched them along with *.srt subtitles? > > > > > > Iow. my point > > > is that the accent is just one part of the talk/teaching, > > > but the > > > energy > > > behind it is much more imporant - this is, my conviction, based > > > on my > > > own > > > teaching experiences. > > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > Gour > > > > > > -- > > > From anger, complete delusion > > > arises, and from delusion > > > bewilderment of memory. When memory is > > > bewildered, > > > intelligence is lost, and when intelligence is lost > > > one falls > > > down again into the material pool. > > > > > > > > >

Oct. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Is possible to keep some code closed in Pharo?

by Ricardo Pacheco

Wow, that sounds great. Thanks a lot!! Ricardo -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Oct. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

by Nicolai Hess

Am 13.10.2017 5:50 PM schrieb "Andrew Glynn" <aglynn42(a)gmail.com>: I can't remember ever using API docs in *any* language, dynamic or not. They give you the method signatures, but if you have, say, methodX(int, int, String), how are you supposed to guess what ints and what String the method actually needs, Isn't this exactly what an apidoc is for? Additional documentation to describe the methods and arguments purpose. Maybe you have just seen poorly documented libraries? One of my favourite language fails can be reproduced by doing this: Declare a field private final in Java, initializing it either in the declaration or the constructor, and provide only a getter. Use the getter from another class and change the value of the local variable. Then use the getter again, but assign the value to a new local variable, and check the value. Maybe you should re-read about javas final keyword. It is not to meant making something immutable , you can just not reassign a new value. Java final != c++ const

Oct. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Problem with input to XML Parser - 'Invalid UTF8 encoding'

by Stephane Ducasse

Tx On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 7:29 AM, monty <monty2(a)programmer.net> wrote: > I know what the problem is and will have it fixed shortly. Thanks for the report. > >> Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 at 9:03 AM >> From: "Peter Kenny" <peter(a)pbkresearch.co.uk> >> To: pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Problem with input to XML Parser - 'Invalid UTF8 encoding' >> >> Correction - I am misrepresenting Sven. What he said was that Zinc would not >> look inside the HTML <head> node to find out about coding. It would of >> course use information in the HTTP headers, if any. >> >> >> Peter Kenny wrote >> > Henry >> > >> > Thanks for the explanations. It's a bit clearer now. I'm still not sure >> > about how ZnUrl>>retrieveContents manages to decode correctly in this >> > case; >> > I'm sure I recall Sven saying it didn't (and in his view shouldn't) look >> > at >> > the HTTP declarations in the header. There is also the mystery of how the >> > string reader in the XML-Parser package (XMLURI>>get) does the same trick, >> > when it is presumably what XMLHTMLParser>>parseURL: uses and fails. >> > >> > However, all these are second order problems. It all begins because the >> > Corriere web site does strange things with encoding, including using a >> > UTF8 >> > character in a page coded with 8859-1, as Paul pointed out. In any case, >> > reading the page as a string and then parsing it solves my problem, so I >> > shall stick to that as a standard procedure. Most importantly, I don't >> > think >> > there is any indication of a problem in the XML package for Monty to worry >> > about. >> > >> > Thanks again >> > >> > Peter >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >> >> >

Oct. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Pillar (was Re: Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk)

by Stephane Ducasse

epub already works. Now it should be improved. Doing an pandoc exporter should not be that difficult. If you do it I will integrate it. On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:03 PM, Gour <gour(a)atmarama.com> wrote: > On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 17:18:54 +0000 > Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Well there is a move towards Pillar for class and method commands so >> who knows maybe we will have that soon enough ;) > > Let me say that I'm very happy seeing that Pillar is moving forward (e.g. > addition of support for footnotes) as well as plan for the future (*.epub > support) since I'm considering whether it could serve as single-source markup > for all of one's writings? > > After migrating from Python-powered static-site-generator (to Hugo) and rst > markup I was considering to use AsciiDoc(tor) markup for all my content, but, > so far, due to using Emacsm settled to use org-mode instead. Haven't tried with > slides (yet), but there is Pandoc support for it. > > Therefore, I'd rather see Pillar support in Pandoc which would buy us even more > import/export capabilities for free instead of focusing on single formats like > *.odt, *.epub etc. > > Pillar with 1st class support in Pandoc would, imho, improve status of Pharo > itself making it along with Pillar exceelent tool for development as well as > for all writing needs - articles, books, documentation, slide-presentations. > > But it would be nice to make it more transparent where/how can one submit > feature request for Pillar? > > Fogbugs issue trakcer is certainly not the ideal place these days... > > > Sincerely, > Gour > > -- > Everyone is forced to act helplessly according to the qualities > he has acquired from the modes of material nature; therefore no > one can refrain from doing something, not even for a moment. > > >

Oct. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] FYI about Pharo MOOC

by Stephane Ducasse

The production company told us that it was super strange without our voices. Now you can also have the french + subtitles. On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 2:42 PM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > I played C019SD-W1-S1-EN-V1.mp4 > and as well as the english voice, in the background I can still hear your > original french voice. > I'm curious the reasoning for this. > > cheers -ben > > > On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 3:59 AM, Stephane Ducasse <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> I'm about to release the en versions. >> you can find them unofficially on http://www.stephaneducasse.eu/MOOC/ >> >> Stef >> >> On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 10:10 PM, Gour <gour(a)atmarama.com> wrote: >> > On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 21:31:55 +0200 >> > Stephane Ducasse >> > <stepharo.self(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > Hello Stef, >> > >> >> I will ask one guy thursday and let you know. >> > >> > Thanks a lot! >> > >> >> We will release Mooc with english voices (not mine else english >> >> natives would get an heart attack - I have what they call a sexy >> >> french accents ;) >> > >> > I did watch few of your Pharo-related presentations and, although not >> > native, >> > happily survived. :-) >> > >> > Moreover, I'd say that your English is charming! At least, one is sure >> > that the >> > real human is speaking and not some "robot" put on auto-pilot, so if the >> > new >> > Mooc is going to be the same as the current/old one, I'd prefer to >> > download >> > the current files and watched them along with *.srt subtitles? >> > >> > Iow. my point is that the accent is just one part of the talk/teaching, >> > but the >> > energy behind it is much more imporant - this is, my conviction, based >> > on my >> > own teaching experiences. >> > >> > >> > Sincerely, >> > Gour >> > >> > -- >> > From anger, complete delusion arises, and from delusion >> > bewilderment of memory. When memory is bewildered, >> > intelligence is lost, and when intelligence is lost >> > one falls down again into the material pool. >> > >> > >> > >> >

Oct. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] FYI about Pharo MOOC

by Stephane Ducasse

Superb! On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 5:03 PM, Ricardo Pacheco <ricardo.pacheco.roldan(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Great, I will have a look at them. I registered to participate in the MOOC > starting on Oct 16, so look forward to contribute back a bit. > > Ricardo > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >

Oct. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Is possible to keep some code closed in Pharo?

by Stephane Ducasse

Hi ricardo - You can ship pharo without sources. In fact the sources are not used during execution (just for the human). - You can ship pharo without debugger. This is one line of code. - Soon we expect to be able to remove the compiler and the decompiler :). - You can also control that the commandline does not allow code execution Now this is not user friendly. We wan with esteban to provide a way to deploy applications (by opposition of code). So I can tell you that we want to have a process and tooling to help for that. I you need help to get you started with Pharo let us know. stef On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Ricardo Pacheco <ricardo.pacheco.roldan(a)gmail.com> wrote: > IMHO, one important aspect to deliver comercial solutions for customers in an > environment like Pharo is to be able to protect certain code or algorithms > developed by the company. It possible to have some clases compiled and > closed to the eyes of customers? Or it is posible to have some kind of > access control to edit clases? > > A bit of context for my question. > In the company I work for in Mexico we have been using a similar live coding > environment for 30 years with great results. The environment we used until a > couple of years ago is named G2 by Gensym; lisp based internally, with is > own natural language like syntax for developers, with a very powerful > backward ans forwards chaining rule engine, an excellent toolkit to create > visual components and a wonderful VNC like and lightwaight > client(Telewindows) that makes visual interactions with a remote G2 very > easy with a very small bandwidth use. Until a couple of years ago, we > developed on it tailor made supply chain solutions and mathematical models; > since then we moved to Java and .NET. > We wish we could stay with live coding, but the draw back with that platform > we used is that is really expensive for customers and the company has been > changing hands to more lawyer oriented owners, because of its installed > based license fees and IP portfolio. So, getting to know Pharo makes me very > enthusiastic about the possibility to move back to live coding. > > Thanks for the response. > > Ricardo > > > > > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >

Oct. 13, 2017

Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern Smalltalk

by Andrew Glynn

I can't remember ever using API docs in any language, dynamic or not.Â Â They give you the method signatures, but if you have, say, methodX(int, int, String), how are you supposed to guess what ints and what String the method actually needs, unless the methods are nothing but getters and setters (which I've never understood the point of) ?Â Â (I know, most give (int somename, int someothername, String whatever), but how often do are method names well thought through enough to imply definitively what the method needs?. Â It's my biggest issue with Algol-style syntax - the method caller is supposed to know how it works, rather than whoever actually wrote it.Â Â It's probably at least one of the reasons for the amount of OSS in Java, and more recently in JavaScript (though the latter is more no- style than Algol-style).Â Â I nearly always download the source to OSS libs although I rarely ever bother building it, so I know what a method does with the params, and I can be sure what params to give it. One of my favourite language fails can be reproduced by doing this:Â Declare a field private final in Java, initializing it either in the declaration or the constructor, and provide only a getter.Â Â Use the getter from another class and change the value of the local variable. Then use the getter again, but assign the value to a new local variable, and check the value. Â Guess what? The value is whatever you changed it to in your other local variable, although the API docs claim javac won't compile it. I tested this with Java 8,Â Â I haven't bothered to see if it was always like that or if they took the rule out of javac because it interfered with some syntactic parmesan, such as lambdas.Â Â I should copy my test code into VisualAge for Java and see if in fact it compiles with JDK 1.4.2, or if javac was changed in between 4 and 8, since the addition of various flavours of syntactic parmesan mostly started with Java 5. Not that it's all that important in one sense.Â Â If 'private' and 'final' were supposed to be guides for other developers to be careful if they're thinking about changing it, fine, anyone who doesn't isn't all that good a developer.Â Â But given the number of 'not very good' developers I've had the misfortune to work with in Java, it's more problematic than it should be.Â Â It also makes the pattern of a private field with a public setter even more useless, since the setter isn't needed to change the value.Â Â I always get dinged by whatever lint companies use for not bothering with that pattern, though, and pointing out that declaring the fields public accomplishes exactly the same thing never helps my case, because whatever lint they use, it has to be right, there's no way a non-lint developer might be right. Andrew Glynn -----Original Message----- Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2017 10:01:20 -0500Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Behold Pharo: The Modern SmalltalkTo: pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.orgReply-to: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org>From: Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas <offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Yes. I know them. I mean API docs as static files. I don't really Â Â Â Â Â Â sold on them compared with a live system and I don't think static Â Â Â Â Â Â API docs are critical for Pharo success. Â Â Â Â Cheers, Â Â Â Â Offray Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â On 11/10/17 09:52, Dimitris Chloupis Â Â Â Â Â Â wrote: Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > Ah > Â Â Â Â Â Â and my static website was built with Pillar and Bootstrap, > using > Â Â Â Â Â Â bootstrap templates was easy because Pillar supports mustache > that > Â Â Â Â Â Â makes html manipulation much easierÂ > > Â Â Â Â Â Â > > Â Â Â Â Â Â http://www.kilon-alios.com > > Â Â Â Â Â Â > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Pillar of course is not made for generating websites but itâs > an > Â Â Â Â Â Â awesome Pharo library that allows for great degree of freedom > so I > Â Â Â Â Â Â thought , why not ? > > Â Â Â Â Â Â > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 at 17:48, Dimitris Chloupis > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > Docs are > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â available in static online html format , at least the > > book I > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â was working onÂ > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Pharo By ExampleÂ > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â You can find those links here > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/UpdatedPharoBy > > Example > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Our documentation system , Pillar , outputs pdf , html > > and > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â markdown files.Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â If the book in question is built like PBE with CI of > > Inria > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â where most Pharo related official projects are built then > > it > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â should have at least pdf and html with online access so > > you > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â can easily link to. > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Donât quote me on this but I think the html output of > > pillar > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â generate links even for paragraphs you can do an even > > more > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â process linking to the documentation.Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 at 17:40, Offray Vladimir > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Luna CÃ¡rdenas <offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â wrote: > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â The more I use Pharo, the less I use web > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â documentation. For me seems pretty suboptimal > > > compared > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â to live environment with code browser and GT- > > > Spotter. > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Regarding the comment on Medium, it also took > > > me > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â little to find #raisedTo:, so the millage can > > > vary. > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â What I was missing was proper books for > > > particular > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â domains, but Pharo books are covering that. I > > > don't > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â know if a Q&A site could improve search-ability > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â for newbies (certainly you can find little > > > stuff in > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Stack Overflow). > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â My bet is about trying to create more "end user" > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â tools (Grafoscopio is kind of this), besides > > > tools for > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â developers. There is a broad community of > > > people who > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â can be active contributors and members of the > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â community, welcome Pharo and live coding a lot > > > and > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â don't complain that much about stuff that is > > > not > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â already pretty similar to what they already > > > know > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â (being that only English MOOC or online static > > > html > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â docs). > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Cheers, > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Offray > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â On > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 11/10/17 07:34, Dimitris Chloupis wrote: > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â for me it is a yes and no situation, > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â yes its very coold to have your entire > > > > system in > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â your fingertips but Pharo has serious > > > > issues with > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â code organisation and I find the lack of > > > > namespaces > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â quite inconvenient. You have to be careful > > > > how to > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â name your classes which does not sound to > > > > me very > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â OOP friendly.Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Also the IDE does not handle > > > > spaggetification > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â very well, sure you can find implementors > > > > , > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â senders etc but if the execution chain is > > > > complex > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â , welcome to spaggeti hell. But that is a > > > > problem > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â with most other IDEs if not all as well. > > > > Problem > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â is in this case that we have the very > > > > good rule of > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â using sort methods which multiplies this > > > > problem > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â and makes navigation even harder. Code > > > > becomes > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â much easier to read per method and > > > > messages but > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â much harder to understand in a bird eye > > > > view. > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Some of that pain has been aleviated with > > > > the > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â introduction of GTSpotter which I have > > > > praised > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â quite a lot and I will continue to do so. > > > > But yeah > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â there are more needed to be done in the > > > > department > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â to make Pharo code navigation a more > > > > comfortable > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â task.Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 2:57 PM Vitor > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Medina Cruz <vitormcruz(a)gmail.com> > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â wrote: > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â I dunno, maybe Iâm weird, but I > > > > > find > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â the System Browser a fantastic way > > > > > to explore > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â the class library. If you find a > > > > > class or > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â method that isnât well documented, > > > > > write a > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â comment and send a change request. > > > > > Stef told > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â me this ages ago. I might add, if > > > > > you find a > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â bug you should write a test that > > > > > exercises the > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â bug and submit it on fogbugz (the > > > > > bug tracking > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â system). > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â I will reference of response of > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â mine to a similar opinion made by > > > > > Richard: https://medium.com/@vitormcruz/i-disagree-it-is-much > > > > > -harder-to-find-anything-in-the-environment-c6bdd44f6eea > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â My 2 cents. > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 11:59 PM, john pfersich <jpfersich@ > > > > > gmail.com> > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > On Oct 10, 2017, at 09:58, > > > > > > horrido > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com> > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > Interestingly, I'm getting > > > > > > a fair > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â amount of pushback on this. > > > > > > Personally, I > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > think it would be very > > > > > > helpful to > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â have a live (updatable, so as > > > > > > to keep it > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > current) reference page for > > > > > > the class > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â library, something that > > > > > > developers can > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > easily look up what they > > > > > > need. After > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â all, most of the power of > > > > > > Pharo comes > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > from the class library and > > > > > > we need to > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â make it as accessible as > > > > > > possible to > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > less experienced Pharoers > > > > > > (i.e., > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â beginners). > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > Exploring the class library > > > > > > through > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â the System Browser is very > > > > > > inefficient. > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > This is further exacerbated > > > > > > by the > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â fact that many classes and > > > > > > methods are > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > simply not well-documented > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â (containing a cursory remark > > > > > > which is just > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â barely > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > useful). > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â I dunno, maybe Iâm weird, but I > > > > > > find > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â the System Browser a fantastic > > > > > > way to > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â explore the class library. If > > > > > > you find a > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â class or method that isnât well > > > > > > documented, > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â write a comment and send a > > > > > > change request. > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Stef told me this ages ago. I > > > > > > might add, if > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â you find a bug you should write > > > > > > a test that > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â exercises the bug and submit it > > > > > > on fogbugz > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â (the bug tracking system). > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > I realize that creating a > > > > > > live > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â reference page is not easy > > > > > > to do. In > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â fact, > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > it's a lot of work. But > > > > > > the absence > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â of such a page is a real > > > > > > obstacle to > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > Pharo acceptance. > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > horrido wrote > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> Thanks. I gave your > > > > > > answer > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â verbatim. I also added the > > > > > > following > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â paragraph: > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> The problem I find with > > > > > > todayâs > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â developers is that they are > > > > > > rather > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> closed-minded. They are > > > > > > rigid > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â and inflexible, and not > > > > > > willing to adapt > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â to > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> new and different ways > > > > > > of doing > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â things. In my generation > > > > > > (circa > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> 1980â1990), > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> people didnât have a > > > > > > problem > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â with trying different > > > > > > technologies. > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Thatâs > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> why > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> I had no issue with > > > > > > learning > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Smalltalk 10 years ago, > > > > > > after I had > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â retired > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> from a 20-year-long > > > > > > career in C > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â systems programming and > > > > > > FORTRAN > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â scientific > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> programming. > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 > > > > > > wrote > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> On 6 Oct 2017, at > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 14:54, horrido < > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> horrido.hobbies@ > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> I received this > > > > > > comment > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â from someone who > > > > > > complained: > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> *What about the lack > > > > > > of > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â documentation? From time to > > > > > > time Iâve > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â checked > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> some > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> SmallTalk > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â implementations like > > > > > > Squeak, > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â GNU-Smalltalk and now > > > > > > Pharo. Of > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> these, only > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â GNU-SmallTalk appears to > > > > > > have a free, > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â official programming > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> guide > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> and core library > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â reference that any serious > > > > > > programmer > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â expects from a > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> language. > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> https://www.gnu.org/so > > > > > > ftware/smalltalk/manual-base/html_node/* > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> I pointed to Pharo's > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â documentation but then he > > > > > > came back > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â with: > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> *Then show me a link > > > > > > of > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â the free, maintained > > > > > > reference > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â documentation for > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> the > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> classes that form âthe > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â core libraryâ, like this > > > > > > one for Python > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> (https://docs.python.o > > > > > > rg/3/library/index.html)* > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> It's true, most > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Smalltalks do not have a > > > > > > core library > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â reference, not > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> even > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> VisualWorks! So what > > > > > > is > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â the proper response to this > > > > > > complaint? > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> The first answer is > > > > > > that > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Pharo/Smalltalk is unique > > > > > > in that a > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â running > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> system/IDE contains > > > > > > _all_ > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â source code, _all_ > > > > > > documentation (class, > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> method, > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> help, tutorial), _all_ > > > > > > unit > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â tests and _all_ runnable > > > > > > examples in a > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â very > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> easy, accessible way. > > > > > > It > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â takes some getting used to, > > > > > > but this is > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â actually > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> better and much more > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â powerful than any > > > > > > alternative. > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> The second answer is > > > > > > that > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â there are lots of books and > > > > > > articles > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â that take > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> the classic/structured > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â book/paper approach. There > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> http://books.pharo.org, > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â http://themoosebook.org, > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> http://book.seaside.st/ > > > > > > book, > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â http://medium.com/concernin > > > > > > g-pharo > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â and many > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> more. > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> -- > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> Sent from: http://foru > > > > > > m.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> -- > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >> Sent from: http://forum. > > > > > > world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > Sent from: http://forum.w > > > > > > orld.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â > > Â Â Â Â Â Â > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

Oct. 13, 2017

Is possible to keep some code closed in Pharo?

by Ricardo Pacheco

IMHO, one important aspect to deliver comercial solutions for customers in an environment like Pharo is to be able to protect certain code or algorithms developed by the company. It possible to have some clases compiled and closed to the eyes of customers? Or it is posible to have some kind of access control to edit clases? A bit of context for my question. In the company I work for in Mexico we have been using a similar live coding environment for 30 years with great results. The environment we used until a couple of years ago is named G2 by Gensym; lisp based internally, with is own natural language like syntax for developers, with a very powerful backward ans forwards chaining rule engine, an excellent toolkit to create visual components and a wonderful VNC like and lightwaight client(Telewindows) that makes visual interactions with a remote G2 very easy with a very small bandwidth use. Until a couple of years ago, we developed on it tailor made supply chain solutions and mathematical models; since then we moved to Java and .NET. We wish we could stay with live coding, but the draw back with that platform we used is that is really expensive for customers and the company has been changing hands to more lawyer oriented owners, because of its installed based license fees and IP portfolio. So, getting to know Pharo makes me very enthusiastic about the possibility to move back to live coding. Thanks for the response. Ricardo -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Oct. 13, 2017