September 2016 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] Why Pharo?

by Dimitris Chloupis

yes all I did is to open the sources file in a text editor and see which one was the last line, that means it includes empty lines too. So 500k sound normal to me. Personally as a user I rarely care about the size because I rarely care to modify the existing image . For me its more important to have more features that make my work easier. Also bare in mind in case of Ruby as with Python, that there is A LOT of C involved which is a very verbose language and of course that includes VM and low level parts that in the case of Pharo are not included in the image. On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 4:46 PM Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Hi, > > > On Sep 25, 2016, at 2:01 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > Totally agree with the slides apart from "Pharo is Small" , the syntax > may be but the whole environment last time I checked was 700k lines of code > > which is huge for a dynamic language. Of course that is far from bad at > least for me, I love powerful environments over minimal solutions. > > > Just for reference, Pharo 5 has: > Smalltalk allClasses sumNumbers: #linesOfCode â515500" > > This is still a lot, but we should compare against a language + IDE + > compiler + collections + version management system + project dependency > system + several significant other libraries. This might turn out to be > quite small in the end :). > > But, one thing I would stress is that "Pharo is Uniformâ. This is what in > the end makes it seem âSmallâ. > > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > > You reminded me that I neeed to update my "Why Pharo" video :) > > > > Great work > > > > On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 2:43 PM Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> > wrote: > > Hi Stephan, > > > > > On 25 Sep 2016, at 13:07, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: > > > > > > I finally found the time to put the slides and narrative together > > > > > > https://medium.com/@stephan_32833/pharo-50c66685913c#.jeou548z7 > > > > > > Stephan > > > > Great article, super cool slides, well done. I especially appreciate how > you guys managed to make so many good points in such a deceptively simple > and clear text â that takes a lot of work. > > > > Any chance you would like to submit it too 'Concerning Pharo' > publication [https://medium.com/concerning-pharo] ? Just send a > submission and I would love to add it. > > > > Sven > > > > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "If you can't say why something is relevant, > it probably isn't." > > >

Sept. 25, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Why Pharo?

by Ben Coman

Slides 5, 8-10 provide an interesting perspective on project size http://www.slideshare.net/blackducksoftware/open-source-by-the-numbers and interesting conclusions on slide 17 * The larger the code base, the less contributors and activity. * The "most likely to succeed" -- are still small enough for people joining them to have an impact. where <1MLOC seems fine, and also the accessibility of whole system makes it easier for people to have an impact. cheers -ben On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 9:45 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Hi, > >> On Sep 25, 2016, at 2:01 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Totally agree with the slides apart from "Pharo is Small" , the syntax may be but the whole environment last time I checked was 700k lines of code >> which is huge for a dynamic language. Of course that is far from bad at least for me, I love powerful environments over minimal solutions. > > > Just for reference, Pharo 5 has: > Smalltalk allClasses sumNumbers: #linesOfCode â515500" > > This is still a lot, but we should compare against a language + IDE + compiler + collections + version management system + project dependency system + several significant other libraries. This might turn out to be quite small in the end :). > > But, one thing I would stress is that "Pharo is Uniformâ. This is what in the end makes it seem âSmallâ. > > > Cheers, > Doru > > > >> You reminded me that I neeed to update my "Why Pharo" video :) >> >> Great work >> >> On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 2:43 PM Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >> Hi Stephan, >> >> > On 25 Sep 2016, at 13:07, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: >> > >> > I finally found the time to put the slides and narrative together >> > >> > https://medium.com/@stephan_32833/pharo-50c66685913c#.jeou548z7 >> > >> > Stephan >> >> Great article, super cool slides, well done. I especially appreciate how you guys managed to make so many good points in such a deceptively simple and clear textâââthat takes a lot of work. >> >> Any chance you would like to submit it too 'Concerning Pharo' publication [https://medium.com/concerning-pharo] ? Just send a submission and I would love to add it. >> >> Sven >> >> > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "If you can't say why something is relevant, > it probably isn't." > >

Sept. 25, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Why Pharo?

by Tudor Girba

Hi, For reference, I just downloaded Ruby 2.3.1 (https://cache.ruby-lang.org/pub/ruby/2.3/ruby-2.3.1.tar.gz) and did: ('ruby-2.3.1' asFileReference allFiles select: [:each | each extension = 'rb' ]) sum: [ :each | [each contents lines size] on: Error do: [ :e | 0 ] ]. â826204" (there are two files that are not in UTF-8 so they were not counted here) Cheers, Doru > On Sep 25, 2016, at 3:45 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > Hi, > >> On Sep 25, 2016, at 2:01 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Totally agree with the slides apart from "Pharo is Small" , the syntax may be but the whole environment last time I checked was 700k lines of code >> which is huge for a dynamic language. Of course that is far from bad at least for me, I love powerful environments over minimal solutions. > > > Just for reference, Pharo 5 has: > Smalltalk allClasses sumNumbers: #linesOfCode â515500" > > This is still a lot, but we should compare against a language + IDE + compiler + collections + version management system + project dependency system + several significant other libraries. This might turn out to be quite small in the end :). > > But, one thing I would stress is that "Pharo is Uniformâ. This is what in the end makes it seem âSmallâ. > > > Cheers, > Doru > > > >> You reminded me that I neeed to update my "Why Pharo" video :) >> >> Great work >> >> On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 2:43 PM Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >> Hi Stephan, >> >>> On 25 Sep 2016, at 13:07, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: >>> >>> I finally found the time to put the slides and narrative together >>> >>> https://medium.com/@stephan_32833/pharo-50c66685913c#.jeou548z7 >>> >>> Stephan >> >> Great article, super cool slides, well done. I especially appreciate how you guys managed to make so many good points in such a deceptively simple and clear textâââthat takes a lot of work. >> >> Any chance you would like to submit it too 'Concerning Pharo' publication [https://medium.com/concerning-pharo] ? Just send a submission and I would love to add it. >> >> Sven >> >> > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "If you can't say why something is relevant, > it probably isn't." -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "To lead is not to demand things, it is to make them happen."

Sept. 25, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Why Pharo?

by Tudor Girba

Hi, > On Sep 25, 2016, at 2:01 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Totally agree with the slides apart from "Pharo is Small" , the syntax may be but the whole environment last time I checked was 700k lines of code > which is huge for a dynamic language. Of course that is far from bad at least for me, I love powerful environments over minimal solutions. Just for reference, Pharo 5 has: Smalltalk allClasses sumNumbers: #linesOfCode â515500" This is still a lot, but we should compare against a language + IDE + compiler + collections + version management system + project dependency system + several significant other libraries. This might turn out to be quite small in the end :). But, one thing I would stress is that "Pharo is Uniformâ. This is what in the end makes it seem âSmallâ. Cheers, Doru > You reminded me that I neeed to update my "Why Pharo" video :) > > Great work > > On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 2:43 PM Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > Hi Stephan, > > > On 25 Sep 2016, at 13:07, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: > > > > I finally found the time to put the slides and narrative together > > > > https://medium.com/@stephan_32833/pharo-50c66685913c#.jeou548z7 > > > > Stephan > > Great article, super cool slides, well done. I especially appreciate how you guys managed to make so many good points in such a deceptively simple and clear textâââthat takes a lot of work. > > Any chance you would like to submit it too 'Concerning Pharo' publication [https://medium.com/concerning-pharo] ? Just send a submission and I would love to add it. > > Sven > > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "If you can't say why something is relevant, it probably isn't."

Sept. 25, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Why Pharo?

by Stephan Eggermont

On 25-09-16 13:42, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > Any chance you would like to submit it too 'Concerning Pharo' > publication [https://medium.com/concerning-pharo] ? Just send a > submission and I would love to add it. Sure. How does that work? I'm new to medium. Do you need to add me as a writer? Stephan

Sept. 25, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Why Pharo?

by Ben Coman

Thanks Stephan & Diego. Nice to read. I liked the term "sea of objects" cheers -ben On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 7:07 PM, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: > I finally found the time to put the slides and narrative together > > https://medium.com/@stephan_32833/pharo-50c66685913c#.jeou548z7 > > Stephan > >

Sept. 25, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Why Pharo?

by Dimitris Chloupis

Totally agree with the slides apart from "Pharo is Small" , the syntax may be but the whole environment last time I checked was 700k lines of code, which is huge for a dynamic language. Of course that is far from bad at least for me, I love powerful environments over minimal solutions. You reminded me that I neeed to update my "Why Pharo" video :) Great work On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 2:43 PM Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > Hi Stephan, > > > On 25 Sep 2016, at 13:07, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: > > > > I finally found the time to put the slides and narrative together > > > > https://medium.com/@stephan_32833/pharo-50c66685913c#.jeou548z7 > > > > Stephan > > Great article, super cool slides, well done. I especially appreciate how > you guys managed to make so many good points in such a deceptively simple > and clear text â that takes a lot of work. > > Any chance you would like to submit it too 'Concerning Pharo' publication [ > https://medium.com/concerning-pharo] ? Just send a submission and I would > love to add it. > > Sven > > >

Sept. 25, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Why Pharo?

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Hi Stephan, > On 25 Sep 2016, at 13:07, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: > > I finally found the time to put the slides and narrative together > > https://medium.com/@stephan_32833/pharo-50c66685913c#.jeou548z7 > > Stephan Great article, super cool slides, well done. I especially appreciate how you guys managed to make so many good points in such a deceptively simple and clear textâââthat takes a lot of work. Any chance you would like to submit it too 'Concerning Pharo' publication [https://medium.com/concerning-pharo] ? Just send a submission and I would love to add it. Sven

Sept. 25, 2016

Why Pharo?

by Stephan Eggermont

I finally found the time to put the slides and narrative together https://medium.com/@stephan_32833/pharo-50c66685913c#.jeou548z7 Stephan

Sept. 25, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Essential Documentation

by Dimitris Chloupis

The documentation of pharo currently is much better than documentation for open source projects of similar size. Do not expect full or large documentation with such small community or class comments. "See and discover yourself" is the approach to coding at large because in most cases whether you have a popular or non popular language documentation will always be a problem because developers generally don't like to write documentation. However the best documentation by large for pharo is this mailing list and the slack channel. For example when I was learning NBOpenGL i literally bombarded this mailing list with questions and all of them got answered in just a few hours. For 4 years now, non of my questions have been left unanswered and I am one of those people that have no hesitation at all asking stupid questions :D The irony here is that even though developers don't like writing documentation they absolutely LOOOOOVEEEEE answering questions :D so its also a nice trick to go in the forum of world.st , which basically takes the mailing list messages and present them as a forum and you can do search whatever you want. http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html For Graphics , vector graphics, Roassal is probably the best choice if you want to visualize data and comes with nice documentation. Roassal uses Athens which is basically Cairo wrapped for Pharo which also has some documentation and some examples. On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 7:22 PM julius <julius(a)wokabulary.com> wrote: > Probably this is a very beginners question but is there a documentation > online > or within the Pharo image for all the base-framework components like all > collections, Morphic, Numbers and so on? > > I know Pharo uses a lot the 'see and discover yourself' approach but > sometimes, > especially for beginners it would be nice to have a documentation for most > classes > and also have programming guides. Coming from macOS and iOS development I > think about something like Swift or Objective-C has. For example you have > every > class there documented but also you have programming guides for how to draw > graphics. It would be really helpful to have somthing like that for example > for > Voyage (maybe it's there but I did not found it). > > Thanks for helping me out! > Julius > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Essential-Documentation-tp4916861.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >

Sept. 25, 2016