June 2016 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Pharo MOOC: A propossed change on factorial

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

Hi all, I'm advancing on the Pharo MOOC trying to catch the rest of the people. It has been a really interesting learning experience. Now I'm making the Block lesson on week 2 and I have found the factorial example with its code. With the quality assistant It noticed no spaces at the beginning or end of the blocks and I'm also wondering how the factorial definition could be changed to give a more friendly message for non integer positive numbers, similar to the one it gives for negative number. For example, if I put "1.5 factorial" I get the "MNU: BoxedFloat64>>factorial". What could the strategy in this case? Cheers, Offray

June 5, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 5 hanging and crashing

by Gerry Weaver

Hi, I'm afraid I don't have any steps to reproduce the issues at the moment. I was just playing around and it hung or crashed frequently enough that it became a bit tedious. I just wondered, if anyone else was having problems. It would seem that I may be alone in this, so I'll try to figure out what is going on. Thanks -----Original Message----- From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of Tudor Girba Sent: Saturday, June 4, 2016 4:56 PM To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 5 hanging and crashing Hi, Pharo 5 is the current release, and you should use this one :). Do you have a specific scenario that we can use to reproduce the crashing behavior? Cheers, Doru > On Jun 4, 2016, at 11:48 PM, Gerry Weaver <gerryw(a)compvia.com> wrote: > > Hello All, > > I am new to Pharo and Smalltalk in general. I have been experimenting with Pharo 5 trying to get acquainted with the environment and the language. I have been having some issues with the image hanging and crashing. This happens when trying code in the Play Ground and especially when stepping through code in the debugger. Has anyone had similar problems? Should I be using Pharo 4 instead? > > I have been testing Pharo on Windows 8 64bit and Ubuntu 14.04 64bit. Could this be a 64bit issue? > > Thanks -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "What we can governs what we wish."

June 5, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Issue on Seaside beginning

by Luc Fabresse

Hi Cheikhou, Ok, this is good that you found a solution. Can you post your solution on the MOOC forum to help other people that might be blocked? Thanks, #Luc 2016-06-04 20:58 GMT+02:00 Cheikhou Oumar KA <cheikhouka(a)gmail.com>: > Hi Stef > > > You got a problem with such image > > > > https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/PharoWeb/PHARO=50,VERSION=stable… > Yes I saved my code in Smalltalkhub. i loaded it in this new image and It > works perfectly. > > May be there the problem come from the combination of seaside and teapot > in the same package....don't know. > > >Sorry for the inconvenience. > > Don't worry. Thanks a lot. Now I can poursue my exercises. > > Thanks > > > > 2016-06-04 18:06 GMT+00:00 stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr>: > >> Hi Cheikhou >> >> We will have a look. I will contact Luc and Damien because I do not >> follow the Seaside set up. >> >> May be we messed up with the setup of the seaside image we gave you. >> >> Did you save your code? >> >> So that you can reload it with the >> >> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/Seaside/ >> >> Seaside3.2 >> >> >> >> You got a problem with such image >> >> >> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/PharoWeb/PHARO=50,VERSION=stable… >> >> do you have your code published so that I try to reproduce your problem? >> >> Sorry for the inconvenience. >> >> >> Stef >> Le 4/6/16 Ã 19:00, Cheikhou Oumar KA a Ã©crit : >> >> Hello. >> >> I am following #PharoMOOC and it become more and more exciting. >> >> I were doing TinyBlog exercise and I got an issue. I looked at the forum >> but any solution and I am stuck now like many others. >> >> I have created my class TBApplicationRootComponent, create a server that >> listen at :8080 and start it, regiser my application.... >> >> But at <http://localhost:8080/browse>http://localhost:8080/browse I got >> this Image in my browser >> >> [image: Images intÃ©grÃ©es 1] >> >> Any help is welcome. >> >> Thanks >> >> -- >> *Cheikhou Oumar KA * >> å¥¥ é©¬ å° Â·è°¢ èµ« Â·å >> Doctorant Informatique >> cheikhouka(a)gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > *Cheikhou Oumar KA * > å¥¥ é©¬ å° Â·è°¢ èµ« Â·å > Doctorant Informatique > cheikhouka(a)gmail.com > > > >

June 5, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 5 hanging and crashing

by Tudor Girba

Hi, Pharo 5 is the current release, and you should use this one :). Do you have a specific scenario that we can use to reproduce the crashing behavior? Cheers, Doru > On Jun 4, 2016, at 11:48 PM, Gerry Weaver <gerryw(a)compvia.com> wrote: > > Hello All, > > I am new to Pharo and Smalltalk in general. I have been experimenting with Pharo 5 trying to get acquainted with the environment and the language. I have been having some issues with the image hanging and crashing. This happens when trying code in the Play Ground and especially when stepping through code in the debugger. Has anyone had similar problems? Should I be using Pharo 4 instead? > > I have been testing Pharo on Windows 8 64bit and Ubuntu 14.04 64bit. Could this be a 64bit issue? > > Thanks -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "What we can governs what we wish."

June 4, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] the impact of moldability

by Tudor Girba

Hi Stef, > On Jun 4, 2016, at 8:38 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > > I like the way you react to my criticisms. In fact each time I complain you make progress. You should really thank me in fact. Thanks for reading. I try my best to welcome criticism even when the tone is not appropriate. I do not always succeed. > And you can name me if it makes you feel better. ;) I do not take any pleasure in talking about persons. I take pleasure in talking about arguments. This is a post that I am writing since about 4 months. I have about 50 more in the pipeline. But, yes, you pushed me to finish this one and I am happy. > Now what you should measure is the ratio > > over engineering - complexity of the solution vs. spread of usage. > > because over engineering means more code to maintain, more complex logic I think we did that, too. For example, the GTInspector has 800 lines of code (including all utilities and several smaller browsers) which is less than the EyeInspector. At the same time Glamour (if you take away Brick which is a widget set) is about 10k lines of code which is the same as Spec. For the domain of browsers, I think it proved to be quite appropriate and it made the code on top be tiny. Still, I think itâs too much code, and I think we can do a better job in Bloc to support workflows. > For example, I think that the GTinspector is a success because the pane are nice and useful. It is a success because there is a fundamental need for it. And because the design process that produced it looked at that fundamental need. > Now EyeInspector was also extensible so this is not the extensibility the point that is the difference in adoption: > > this is the way people can extend it That is what the post says. Interestingly, it is the âscriptingâ thin API of the Glamour components which made this way of extending possible. > the good widget support and better look The look is important, but you are forgetting the interaction. This is key. > Now for Spotter I'm questionning the other scenarios that are not the main ones: > - find a class > - implementors > - refs > - senders > In fact on the 50 that you can find I have problems to see the others useful. You can argue and brainwash me still > when I look at me coding sessions I do not need more (do not tell me that this is because I do not how to use Spotter - I should be > the one that produces mooc videos showing this great tool). But, I never argued for that. I only argued that if you do not need it does not mean that others do not need it. In fact, the existence of extensions shows exactly the contrary. You get a similar dynamics in the apps on the phone. Some people have a ton of apps, some people have very few apps, and the vast majority of people do not use the vast majority of apps. Yet, this does not mean that the apps are not useful. It simply means that when context plays an important role, you will get this type of distribution. For example, last week I remember navigating Moose models, file systems, senders, implementors, packages, playground pages, remote snippets, examples, pragmas, loading from the catalog. So, for me, these are useful, but I do not need to convince you that they are useful. Now you can choose to have exactly the 4 searches you want. Spotter allows you to do just that. > For the debugger I looked at the code and this is less a problem than I thought Thanks for looking at it. > (but this is based on Glamour and I do not like Glamour > with blocks with multiple arguments and dataflow). Well â¦ it happens that this strange design made the other tools cheap enough to produce a shift in the way we build tools. It is not perfect at all, in fact we do not want this code (only the essence) in the Bloc world anymore, but there is some quality in there I guess. > Now the question is if you would have invested the time you spent in moldable but in an advanced debugger > with object based breakpoints, concurrent support, alias support (like the wormhole debugger of the phd of adrian) and back in time debugging which ones people would really choose You seem to position this as an either/or type of problem. I do not think it is like that. A key aspect in the GT Debugger is that it has no logic. All logic is in the DebuggerModel and was integrated a long time ago. That was about laying out the foundation for playing with all sorts of debuggers, including the ones you mention. The result is that if people want to play they can and we will not have to choose either one or the other. We can have both at the same time and choose between them at runtime. > : because so far I do not debug bytecode, nor petitparser. You do not debug those because you do not develop with those packages :). I happen to have the need of debugging parsers, and this debugger makes a difference. The Glamour debugger also makes a difference for complicated workflows, but only if you have those workflows. There are hundreds of extensions for the inspector. People said that they were not needed, yet . Many of those will be useful in only corner cases and for few people. But, now we can afford to have them. This is a workflow that never existed before. And we will get more of these possibilities. > And what I got is basically not much more than before. This is not because you show the test setup on the side of the stack that it is > useful to me. Again. If you do not have the use case, you will not find the usefulness. That is because the workflow starts with a context, not with a tool. > Note that my remark is not incompatible with the fact that you could have a debugger framework that you can use > to support bytecode and petitparser debugging. Of course not. > Stef > > So you can claim what you feel and justify your actions still there are other ways to measure success. Of course there are different types of success because there are many values we can pursue, and often the parts are much less than the sum. I believe quite strongly in the value I argue for. What you see here is the result of a hypothesis that I coined in 2009. I risked my career to explore it, and after 7 years it looks like there is enough evidence to indicate that that hypothesis might be true. I know companies that have a business on building tools that match the context of the problem. Now we are able to bring that business case to every little tiny problem. I think this is disruptive, I think this is important and I will continue to invest in this. It does not mean that other things are not important, though. Cheers, Doru > Stef > > Le 4/6/16 Ã 18:45, Tudor Girba a Ã©crit : >> Hi, >> >> There were a couple of emails in the recent period that questioned the usefulness of moldability (the ability of developers to customize their tools deeply and inexpensively). More specifically, the question was about the moldability of the GTDebugger. >> >> I put together a couple of thoughts of why we think that moldability is actually a competitive advantage: >> http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/the-impact-of-moldability/ >> >> Please read it and provide feedback. >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> www.feenk.com >> >> "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with." >> >> >> > > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "It's not what we do that matters most, it's how we do it."

June 4, 2016

Pharo 5 hanging and crashing

by Gerry Weaver

Hello All, I am new to Pharo and Smalltalk in general. I have been experimenting with Pharo 5 trying to get acquainted with the environment and the language. I have been having some issues with the image hanging and crashing. This happens when trying code in the Play Ground and especially when stepping through code in the debugger. Has anyone had similar problems? Should I be using Pharo 4 instead? I have been testing Pharo on Windows 8 64bit and Ubuntu 14.04 64bit. Could this be a 64bit issue? Thanks

June 4, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] [Moose-dev] how to set a code completion schema in GT inspector?

by Tudor Girba

Not now. This would be another thing to approach from a moldable point of view. Doru > On May 27, 2016, at 3:55 PM, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > > Hi! > > Is there a way to provide a strategy to complete code in GT? > For example, if I would like to specialize the completion in case I am writing a Roassal script... > > Alexandre > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev(a)list.inf.unibe.ch > https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with."

June 4, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Issue on Seaside beginning

by Cheikhou Oumar KA

Hi Stef > You got a problem with such image > https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/PharoWeb/PHARO=50,VERSION=stable… Yes I saved my code in Smalltalkhub. i loaded it in this new image and It works perfectly. May be there the problem come from the combination of seaside and teapot in the same package....don't know. >Sorry for the inconvenience. Don't worry. Thanks a lot. Now I can poursue my exercises. Thanks 2016-06-04 18:06 GMT+00:00 stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr>: > Hi Cheikhou > > We will have a look. I will contact Luc and Damien because I do not follow > the Seaside set up. > > May be we messed up with the setup of the seaside image we gave you. > > Did you save your code? > > So that you can reload it with the > > https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/Seaside/ > > Seaside3.2 > > > > You got a problem with such image > > > https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/PharoWeb/PHARO=50,VERSION=stable… > > do you have your code published so that I try to reproduce your problem? > > Sorry for the inconvenience. > > > Stef > Le 4/6/16 Ã 19:00, Cheikhou Oumar KA a Ã©crit : > > Hello. > > I am following #PharoMOOC and it become more and more exciting. > > I were doing TinyBlog exercise and I got an issue. I looked at the forum > but any solution and I am stuck now like many others. > > I have created my class TBApplicationRootComponent, create a server that > listen at :8080 and start it, regiser my application.... > > But at <http://localhost:8080/browse>http://localhost:8080/browse I got > this Image in my browser > > [image: Images intÃ©grÃ©es 1] > > Any help is welcome. > > Thanks > > -- > *Cheikhou Oumar KA * > å¥¥ é©¬ å° Â·è°¢ èµ« Â·å > Doctorant Informatique > cheikhouka(a)gmail.com > > > > > -- *Cheikhou Oumar KA * å¥¥ é©¬ å° Â·è°¢ èµ« Â·å Doctorant Informatique cheikhouka(a)gmail.com

June 4, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] the impact of moldability

by stepharo

I like the way you react to my criticisms. In fact each time I complain you make progress. You should really thank me in fact. And you can name me if it makes you feel better. ;) Now what you should measure is the ratio over engineering - complexity of the solution vs. spread of usage. because over engineering means more code to maintain, more complex logic For example, I think that the GTinspector is a success because the pane are nice and useful. Now EyeInspector was also extensible so this is not the extensibility the point that is the difference in adoption: this is the way people can extend it the good widget support and better look Now for Spotter I'm questionning the other scenarios that are not the main ones: - find a class - implementors - refs - senders In fact on the 50 that you can find I have problems to see the others useful. You can argue and brainwash me still when I look at me coding sessions I do not need more (do not tell me that this is because I do not how to use Spotter - I should be the one that produces mooc videos showing this great tool). For the debugger I looked at the code and this is less a problem than I thought (but this is based on Glamour and I do not like Glamour with blocks with multiple arguments and dataflow). Now the question is if you would have invested the time you spent in moldable but in an advanced debugger with object based breakpoints, concurrent support, alias support (like the wormhole debugger of the phd of adrian) and back in time debugging which ones people would really choose: because so far I do not debug bytecode, nor petitparser. And what I got is basically not much more than before. This is not because you show the test setup on the side of the stack that it is useful to me. Note that my remark is not incompatible with the fact that you could have a debugger framework that you can use to support bytecode and petitparser debugging. Stef So you can claim what you feel and justify your actions still there are other ways to measure success. Stef Le 4/6/16 Ã 18:45, Tudor Girba a Ã©crit : > Hi, > > There were a couple of emails in the recent period that questioned the usefulness of moldability (the ability of developers to customize their tools deeply and inexpensively). More specifically, the question was about the moldability of the GTDebugger. > > I put together a couple of thoughts of why we think that moldability is actually a competitive advantage: > http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/the-impact-of-moldability/ > > Please read it and provide feedback. > > Cheers, > Doru > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with." > > >

June 4, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] [Moose-dev] Re: the impact of moldability

by Tudor Girba

Hi, > On Jun 4, 2016, at 7:34 PM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > > Nice read and some interesting statistics. Thanks > It makes sense when laid > out like that, but its a question of internalising the knowledge to > make use of moldability more often. Indeed. This is a challenge. In this regard, picking specific scenarios and asking questions about how to deal with them could help us build tutorials. > > One small edit... > We are the beginning > ==> We are at the beginning Fixed. Doru > > cheers -ben > > On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 12:45 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: >> Hi, >> >> There were a couple of emails in the recent period that questioned the usefulness of moldability (the ability of developers to customize their tools deeply and inexpensively). More specifically, the question was about the moldability of the GTDebugger. >> >> I put together a couple of thoughts of why we think that moldability is actually a competitive advantage: >> http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/the-impact-of-moldability/ >> >> Please read it and provide feedback. >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> www.feenk.com >> >> "Reasonable is what we are accustomed with." >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Moose-dev mailing list >> Moose-dev(a)list.inf.unibe.ch >> https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev(a)list.inf.unibe.ch > https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Being happy is a matter of choice."

June 4, 2016