June 2016 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 5 accented chars bug/regression

by stepharo

Hello Milan > > Re: Pharo 5 accented chars bug/regression.eml > > Sujet : > Re: Pharo 5 accented chars bug/regression > De : > Milan Vavra <vavra_milan(a)yahoo.com> > Date : > 12/6/16 21:50 > > Pour : > pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org > > > I have debugged the issue and figured out how to fix it. I have seen > it as an opportunity to learn Pharo debugging and I did learn a few > tricks on the way. It took me 2 full days of debugging. Thanks for your time. This is important because most of us are not fluent with encodings, especially me :) > It is a simple fix that works for all the Pharo versions on Windows > that have this problem. Including Pharo 6 without Nicolai's fix applied. > And it does not break any shortcuts as far as I can tell. Super! > I was so proud of myself. You can! Could you sign the license agreement http://pharo.org/contribute > I thought I deserved some recognition. And I > still do. It is not that someone else could not do it. I am sure that > many people would be able to do that as well. But I did take the time > to do it. And it worked. I kind of would have liked to be able to point > to it and say "I fixed that". I know that feeling :) and this is great that you could do it. > > I thought stackoverflow.com might be a good place for that. I was > wrong. Having had my stackoverflow.com post attacked by aggressive > incompetent anonymous down voters who were interested in down voting but > possess no sense of humor or knowledge of Pharo or Smalltalk I think > I understand now that stackoverflow.com is overrated. You are the not the first one to get such bad experience. I do not understand why people are that stupid. > I don't think a site that actively encourages that kind of behavior deserves to benefit > from my fix in any way. I would need a whole bunch of sympathizers to > overturn the downvoting. I am not sure it is worth anybody's time. > > I understand now that mailing lists have several good qualities that > stackoverflow.com does not have: posts can not disappear. People can not > anonymously make you look bad even if they are incompetent in the subject > matter. > > Don't get me wrong. I'm ok with being told that I'm ugly or stupid > if I understand what it is that is disliked. We are not like that. Pharo is our systems and people are here to improve it. Open a bug entry on fogbugz and people will comment positively. http://pharo.org/contribute > But I do not like places > where anonymous bullying is actively encouraged. Hey I even got a 'Peer > Pressure' badge for deleting my down voted post. This is why we do not really like people having strong opinion while being anonymous. You can have a strong feeling but not bashing for bashing. > So much for context. > > > I understand that Nicolai is working on a fix of his own. The preliminary > version for future Pharo 6.0 shows promise. With it, it is possible to > type all the russian characters. Even with the fix it is not possible > to type the Latin 'Ä' but I guess that can be fixed too. > > Back to business: > > Is there anyone out there using Pharo 3, 4, 5 or 6 on Windows that would > benefit now from being able to type the characters Ä, Ä, Ä or Russian Ð, > Ð, Ð, Ð, Ð, Ð in Workspace/Playground and System Browser? It would be nice for Pharo 5. Since it will be the official version for about more than a year. > > I guess I would like to know how to get this fixed with my fix and get > some visibility in the process. If there is any interest. > > > Milan > > > > > > -- > View this message in context:http://forum.world.st/Pharo-5-accented-chars-bug-regression-tp4898863p4900559.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >

June 13, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 5 accented chars bug/regression

by Ben Coman

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 6:39 AM, Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> I thought stackoverflow.com might be a good place for that. I was >> wrong. Having had my stackoverflow.com post attacked by aggressive >> incompetent anonymous down voters who were interested in down voting but >> possess no sense of humor or knowledge of Pharo or Smalltalk I think >> I understand now that stackoverflow.com is overrated. I don't think a >> site that actively encourages that kind of behavior deserves to benefit >> from my fix in any way. I would need a whole bunch of sympathizers to >> overturn the downvoting. I am not sure it is worth anybody's time. In spite of Peter's feedback on your specific post, in general I agree. Several people in our community have found the same. I've only answered a few, not asked Pharo questions on SO, and some shot down by people for "reasons" that didn't seem true, and really discouraged me from participating. Mainstream languages seem to have a lower standard. If they could let it be moderated by a knowledgeable-topic-lieutenant aligned with their tough guidelines it would be more palatable - but as it stands I find the mail list, issue tracker and slack provide everything I need. >> >> I was so proud of myself. I thought I deserved some recognition. >> And I still do. Really glad to hear of your achievement. Thanks for sharing. Its a significant step to choose to attack the problem yourself rather than just report it (which also is good). I remember a similar sense of accomplishment and surprise with the degree I could dig deep into Pharo to help resolve issues, and a little trepidation waiting for the fix to be reviewed and integrated. I've gained a lot of knowledge from such feedback (and also btw, reviewing other peoples fixes, identifying the changes and tracing through that code before and after loading the slice.) >> I guess I would like to know how to get this fixed with my fix and get >> some visibility in the process. If there is any interest. > > > Explicitly asking for a recognition is going on a very thin ice. This is a bit tough against a newcomer finding their way into the community, feeling the exuberance of achievement (although a little tainted by the karma trade offer rather than a pure gift.) Although "repeated" requests for recognition won't fit in, lets recognize the effort to break the barriers to actively participate in improving Pharo. First posts and first contributions are as much social as technical barriers. Milan, For visibility, I'd be glad to hear you announce when your fix has been integrated. First integration is a significant milestone and nice sense of accomplishment that is good to share. Keep in mind though, you'd best work for your own enjoyment and satisfaction. Peer esteem is something that builds over a sustained period. btw, you may find this interesting... http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/homesteading/homesteading/ar01s13.html as well as some other foundational writings on open source... http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/ http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html > > You see, I've myself invested a ton of time into Pharo over past two years, > but I wouldn't even dream about asking for recognition, because there are > people who invested hundred and thousandfold times more and yet I barely > thank them myself. The latest release ( > http://pharo.org/news/pharo-5.0-released ) has hundred contributorsâ¦ is it > fair that the list has side-by-side people that invested maybe an hour into > Pharo and next to him someone with thousands of hours? > > Visibility is not built by fixing a single issueâ¦ there are tens of fixes > every single week, but by continuous and systematic investment. > If and when people appreciate ones efforts is up to them. It certainly feels > great when someone thanks you or appreciates your efforts, but it (to me) > seems like a fragile ground to build your motivation upon. I contribute > because I enjoy it, because I enjoy the system and I want to see it grow, > because I want to learn and improve myself, and because I need the problems > fixed for my workâ¦ and all of it is internal motivationâ¦ if noone thanks > (which is the majority case for majority of bugs, because most people have > no idea that a bug even existed or was fixed)â¦ then I don't care, because I > had fun and I made the system better. I actually feel guilty that I do not > contribute enough and that I merely reap the benefits of other people's > work. > > But of course I can only speak for myself, and you may feel different about > it. :) > > Peter > > > On Sun, Jun 12, 2016 at 10:30 PM, Milan Vavra via Pharo-users > <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: >> >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Milan Vavra <vavra_milan(a)yahoo.com> >> To: pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org >> Cc: >> Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 12:50:27 -0700 (PDT) >> Subject: Re: Pharo 5 accented chars bug/regression >> I have debugged the issue and figured out how to fix it. I have seen >> it as an opportunity to learn Pharo debugging and I did learn a few >> tricks on the way. It took me 2 full days of debugging. >> >> It is a simple fix that works for all the Pharo versions on Windows >> that have this problem. Including Pharo 6 without Nicolai's fix applied. >> And it does not break any shortcuts as far as I can tell. >> >> I was so proud of myself. I thought I deserved some recognition. And I >> still do. It is not that someone else could not do it. I am sure that >> many people would be able to do that as well. But I did take the time >> to do it. And it worked. I kind of would have liked to be able to point >> to it and say "I fixed that". Two days is a significant commitment to one issue when you are learning new tools and environment. Its the sort of determination I'd value in the community. You are right to be proud. Anyone *could* do it. But you actually *did* do it. Unfortunately the nature of many systems and ours is that when they *just*work* they don't get a lot of notice. But you'll *know*. Sometimes its many months later that something I've worked on get a comment and I feel a quiet little thrill someone found my contribution useful. >> >> I understand that Nicolai is working on a fix of his own. The preliminary >> version for future Pharo 6.0 shows promise. With it, it is possible to >> type all the russian characters. Even with the fix it is not possible >> to type the Latin 'Ä' but I guess that can be fixed too. >> >> Back to business: >> >> Is there anyone out there using Pharo 3, 4, 5 or 6 on Windows that would >> benefit now from being able to type the characters Ä, Ä, Ä or Russian Ð, >> Ð, Ð, Ð, Ð, Ð in Workspace/Playground and System Browser? >> >> I guess I would like to know how to get this fixed with my fix and get >> some visibility in the process. If there is any interest. Not many fixes are integrated to older releases. In the short term, probably best for Pharo 3 & 4 to load your fix into their associated Inbox and advise here what the package is so that someone searching the problem months later can find it. For Pharo 5 & 6 open issues as Nicolai advised. It can feel a little awkward going through the process the first time, so keep plugging at it. After you change is integrated, it would be good if you can report any impediments you encountered in the process. Newcomers see things that the rest of us forget and unconsciously work around after doing it a few times. have fun, cheers -ben

June 13, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 5 accented chars bug/regression

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

> > I thought stackoverflow.com might be a good place for that. I was > wrong. Having had my stackoverflow.com post attacked by aggressive > incompetent anonymous down voters who were interested in down voting but > possess no sense of humor or knowledge of Pharo or Smalltalk I think > I understand now that stackoverflow.com is overrated. I don't think a > site that actively encourages that kind of behavior deserves to benefit > from my fix in any way. I would need a whole bunch of sympathizers to > overturn the downvoting. I am not sure it is worth anybody's time. I understand now that mailing lists have several good qualities that > stackoverflow.com does not have: posts can not disappear. People can not > anonymously make you look bad even if they are incompetent in the subject > matter. Are you referring to the post titled "Pharo/Seaside for Windows: Cannot type Latin Ä, Ä, Ä or Russian Ð, Ð, Ð, Ð, Ð, Ð characters in Workspace/Playground or System Browser"? If so, then although it was (imho) a very nice bug report, it has no place on stackoverflow ; we have issue tracker for that https://pharo.fogbugz.com/ So my guess is that your post was downvoted because it didn't fit SO criteria for questions ( https://stackoverflow.com/help/on-topic ). Judging by your SO rep you seem quite new to the site, so you might not be familiar with how the site works (reviewing queues, what's on topic https://stackoverflow.com/help/on-topic , etc.) It is true that sometimes the questions are reviewed by people that have no knowledge of Pharo/Smalltalk, and then they will judge it on generic criteria, which sometimes results in incidents; however most of the time it seems to work rather well. So blasting SO because of a single incident, and calling people you don't know "incompetent" is certainly not the way to have a discussion, whether you are right or wrong. But I do not like places where anonymous bullying is actively encouraged. Downvoting is not bullying, it's there to help ensure that SO doesn't become garbage dumpâ¦ and there's a lot garbage incoming. I've reviewed almost thousand posts there and flagged almost half of them, and way too often the user clearly didn't even bother spending five minutes reading about the site and what's appropriate and what's not. With such constant flooding where literally every other question is garbage, I can see why people might be harsherâ¦ and not care about misflagging a small fraction of thatâ¦ in this context it's better to have a more uptight standard than to loosen it up. When you've asked/answered three questions, having one flagged is a lot and can be upsettingâ¦ it's third of all your work. If you have hundred(s) of questions you just shrug and move to the next one, because it's not worth to be upset over it. Is there anyone out there using Pharo 3, 4, 5 or 6 on Windows that would > benefit now from being able to type the characters Ä, Ä, Ä or Russian Ð, > Ð, Ð, Ð, Ð, Ð in Workspace/Playground and System Browser? > It's a bug and as such should be fixed. > I was so proud of myself. I thought I deserved some recognition. And I > still do. > I guess I would like to know how to get this fixed with my fix and get > some visibility in the process. If there is any interest. Explicitly asking for a recognition is going on a very thin ice. You see, I've myself invested a ton of time into Pharo over past two years, but I wouldn't even dream about asking for recognition, because there are people who invested hundred and thousandfold times more and yet I barely thank them myself. The latest release ( http://pharo.org/news/pharo-5.0-released ) has hundred contributorsâ¦ is it fair that the list has side-by-side people that invested maybe an hour into Pharo and next to him someone with thousands of hours? Visibility is not built by fixing a single issueâ¦ there are tens of fixes every single week, but by continuous and systematic investment. If and when people appreciate ones efforts is up to them. It certainly feels great when someone thanks you or appreciates your efforts, but it (to me) seems like a fragile ground to build your motivation upon. I contribute because I enjoy it, because I enjoy the system and I want to see it grow, because I want to learn and improve myself, and because I need the problems fixed for my workâ¦ and all of it is internal motivationâ¦ if noone thanks (which is the majority case for majority of bugs, because most people have no idea that a bug even existed or was fixed)â¦ then I don't care, because I had fun and I made the system better. I actually feel guilty that I do not contribute enough and that I merely reap the benefits of other people's work. But of course I can only speak for myself, and you may feel different about it. :) Peter On Sun, Jun 12, 2016 at 10:30 PM, Milan Vavra via Pharo-users < pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Milan Vavra <vavra_milan(a)yahoo.com> > To: pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org > Cc: > Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 12:50:27 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: Re: Pharo 5 accented chars bug/regression > I have debugged the issue and figured out how to fix it. I have seen > it as an opportunity to learn Pharo debugging and I did learn a few > tricks on the way. It took me 2 full days of debugging. > > It is a simple fix that works for all the Pharo versions on Windows > that have this problem. Including Pharo 6 without Nicolai's fix applied. > And it does not break any shortcuts as far as I can tell. > > I was so proud of myself. I thought I deserved some recognition. And I > still do. It is not that someone else could not do it. I am sure that > many people would be able to do that as well. But I did take the time > to do it. And it worked. I kind of would have liked to be able to point > to it and say "I fixed that". > > > > > Don't get me wrong. I'm ok with being told that I'm ugly or stupid > if I understand what it is that is disliked. But I do not like places > where anonymous bullying is actively encouraged. Hey I even got a 'Peer > Pressure' badge for deleting my down voted post. > > So much for context. > > > I understand that Nicolai is working on a fix of his own. The preliminary > version for future Pharo 6.0 shows promise. With it, it is possible to > type all the russian characters. Even with the fix it is not possible > to type the Latin 'Ä' but I guess that can be fixed too. > > Back to business: > > Is there anyone out there using Pharo 3, 4, 5 or 6 on Windows that would > benefit now from being able to type the characters Ä, Ä, Ä or Russian Ð, > Ð, Ð, Ð, Ð, Ð in Workspace/Playground and System Browser? > > I guess I would like to know how to get this fixed with my fix and get > some visibility in the process. If there is any interest. > > > Milan > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Pharo-5-accented-chars-bug-regression-tp4898863p49005… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > >

June 12, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 5 accented chars bug/regression

by Nicolai Hess

2016-06-12 22:30 GMT+02:00 Milan Vavra via Pharo-users < pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org>: > > > ---------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht ---------- > From: Milan Vavra <vavra_milan(a)yahoo.com> > To: pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org > Cc: > Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 12:50:27 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: Re: Pharo 5 accented chars bug/regression > I have debugged the issue and figured out how to fix it. I have seen > it as an opportunity to learn Pharo debugging and I did learn a few > tricks on the way. It took me 2 full days of debugging. > > It is a simple fix that works for all the Pharo versions on Windows > that have this problem. Including Pharo 6 without Nicolai's fix applied. > And it does not break any shortcuts as far as I can tell. > > I was so proud of myself. I thought I deserved some recognition. And I > still do. It is not that someone else could not do it. I am sure that > many people would be able to do that as well. But I did take the time > to do it. And it worked. I kind of would have liked to be able to point > to it and say "I fixed that". > > I thought stackoverflow.com might be a good place for that. I was > wrong. Having had my stackoverflow.com post attacked by aggressive > incompetent anonymous down voters who were interested in down voting but > possess no sense of humor or knowledge of Pharo or Smalltalk I think > I understand now that stackoverflow.com is overrated. I don't think a > site that actively encourages that kind of behavior deserves to benefit > from my fix in any way. I would need a whole bunch of sympathizers to > overturn the downvoting. I am not sure it is worth anybody's time. > > I understand now that mailing lists have several good qualities that > stackoverflow.com does not have: posts can not disappear. People can not > anonymously make you look bad even if they are incompetent in the subject > matter. > > Don't get me wrong. I'm ok with being told that I'm ugly or stupid > if I understand what it is that is disliked. But I do not like places > where anonymous bullying is actively encouraged. Hey I even got a 'Peer > Pressure' badge for deleting my down voted post. > > So much for context. > > > I understand that Nicolai is working on a fix of his own. The preliminary > version for future Pharo 6.0 shows promise. With it, it is possible to > type all the russian characters. Even with the fix it is not possible > to type the Latin 'Ä' but I guess that can be fixed too. > > Back to business: > > Is there anyone out there using Pharo 3, 4, 5 or 6 on Windows that would > benefit now from being able to type the characters Ä, Ä, Ä or Russian Ð, > Ð, Ð, Ð, Ð, Ð in Workspace/Playground and System Browser? > > I guess I would like to know how to get this fixed with my fix and get > some visibility in the process. If there is any interest. > > > Hi Milan, there are different ways to fix this bug. One way is to clean up the keystroke handling - that is what I am working on. If you have a fix for an intermediate solution, feel free to submit your solution. (see http://pharo.org/contribute) best nicolai > Milan > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Pharo-5-accented-chars-bug-regression-tp4898863p49005… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > >

June 12, 2016

Re: Pharo 5 accented chars bug/regression

by Milan Vavra

I have debugged the issue and figured out how to fix it. I have seen it as an opportunity to learn Pharo debugging and I did learn a few tricks on the way. It took me 2 full days of debugging. It is a simple fix that works for all the Pharo versions on Windows that have this problem. Including Pharo 6 without Nicolai's fix applied. And it does not break any shortcuts as far as I can tell. I was so proud of myself. I thought I deserved some recognition. And I still do. It is not that someone else could not do it. I am sure that many people would be able to do that as well. But I did take the time to do it. And it worked. I kind of would have liked to be able to point to it and say "I fixed that". I thought stackoverflow.com might be a good place for that. I was wrong. Having had my stackoverflow.com post attacked by aggressive incompetent anonymous down voters who were interested in down voting but possess no sense of humor or knowledge of Pharo or Smalltalk I think I understand now that stackoverflow.com is overrated. I don't think a site that actively encourages that kind of behavior deserves to benefit from my fix in any way. I would need a whole bunch of sympathizers to overturn the downvoting. I am not sure it is worth anybody's time. I understand now that mailing lists have several good qualities that stackoverflow.com does not have: posts can not disappear. People can not anonymously make you look bad even if they are incompetent in the subject matter. Don't get me wrong. I'm ok with being told that I'm ugly or stupid if I understand what it is that is disliked. But I do not like places where anonymous bullying is actively encouraged. Hey I even got a 'Peer Pressure' badge for deleting my down voted post. So much for context. I understand that Nicolai is working on a fix of his own. The preliminary version for future Pharo 6.0 shows promise. With it, it is possible to type all the russian characters. Even with the fix it is not possible to type the Latin 'Ä' but I guess that can be fixed too. Back to business: Is there anyone out there using Pharo 3, 4, 5 or 6 on Windows that would benefit now from being able to type the characters Ä, Ä, Ä or Russian Ð, Ð, Ð, Ð, Ð, Ð in Workspace/Playground and System Browser? I guess I would like to know how to get this fixed with my fix and get some visibility in the process. If there is any interest. Milan -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-5-accented-chars-bug-regression-tp4898863p49005… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

June 12, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] DBXTalk/Garage: GAMySQLDriver#execute: raises exception when int field is NULL

by stepharo

thanks mark This is the right place! I will let guille or esteban reply Stef Le 11/6/16 Ã 23:20, Mark Bratcher a Ã©crit : > > Hello > > Not sure where else to post this. I have posted what looks like a bug > in the GAMySQLDriver#execute: selector. Here is the bug report on > tracker: https://github.com/guillep/DBXTalk/issues/8. But there is > very, very little activity there or in the DBXTalk Google discussion > group. > > Is DBXTalk/Garage still considered a supported means of interfacing to > an existing database (like MySQL or PostgreSQL)? If so, is there > something Iâm doing wrong as shown in the tracker post, or is there a > known bug? > > Thanks > > ------- > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >

June 12, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Don't understand Array creation syntax

by Damien Pollet

That's just how the syntax is; it allows to have arrays as elements of arrays. Also, to be coherent with what you thought, closing parentheses would have to become elements as well, and the array would never end. On 12 June 2016 at 05:23, Franklin Mike <mike1corporation(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Why the first element of #( ( 1 + 2 ) . 3 ) is #(1 #+ 2) and not #'('. > Thanks!! >

June 12, 2016

Don't understand Array creation syntax

by Franklin Mike

Why the first element of #( ( 1 + 2 ) . 3 ) is #(1 #+ 2) and not #'('. Thanks!!

June 12, 2016

DBXTalk/Garage: GAMySQLDriver#execute: raises exception when int field is NULL

by Mark Bratcher

Hello Not sure where else to post this. I have posted what looks like a bug in the GAMySQLDriver#execute: selector. Here is the bug report on tracker: https://github.com/guillep/DBXTalk/issues/8. But there is very, very little activity there or in the DBXTalk Google discussion group. Is DBXTalk/Garage still considered a supported means of interfacing to an existing database (like MySQL or PostgreSQL)? If so, is there something Iâm doing wrong as shown in the tracker post, or is there a known bug? Thanks ------- Sent from Mail for Windows 10

June 11, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] [ANN] PBMAuthenticator

by Ben Coman

very cool. thanks for your contribution. cheers -ben On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 9:44 PM, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Hi Attila, > > Attila Magyar <m.magyar3(a)gmail.com> writes: > >> I made a library for an online 2 factor authentication service called >> PassBy[ME] <http://passbyme.net> . > > thanks Attila. We need more of this kind! > > Thanks again > > -- > Damien Cassou > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without > losing enthusiasm." --Winston Churchill >

June 11, 2016