May 2016 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] What other languages can do something similar?

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

> > I can execute foreverTrue in a Playground and when nothing returns in an > appropriate amount of time. I can stop the execution Assuming the UI is responsive enough to receive the stop commandâ¦ which (at least in my experience) is more often false than true. In principle any environment that has a debugger attached to the execution (so launching from any modern IDE) should be able to do it. But of course the developer experience is somewhere completely different. Plus they won't ship it to production with the debugger attached. We would. :) Peter On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 2:36 PM, Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> wrote: > While working on a project I made a mistake in some code. A common mistake > in most languages, a less common one in Smalltalk or Pharo. Something > similar to the below. > > foreverTrue > | index end | > > [ index < end ] whileTrue: [ > "Do something clever. > But forget to increment index." > ]. > ^ returnSomething > > > I can execute foreverTrue in a Playground and when nothing returns in an > appropriate amount of time. I can stop the execution. Fix the bug. Try > again. I lose nothing. All my data, all my image state is still there. I do > not have to do anything special to execute foreverTrue again, but now > successfully so. > > Because Pharo/Smalltalk is so much more than just a programming language, > this is possible. > > Most languages I know you would have to kill the vm and start all over. I > would have to do everything I had already done to get to the correct state > in order to execute my method. I guess many static languages might catch > the bug and not allow execution. But I have no experience there. > > I was just curious as to what other languages, environments might survive > my mistake and allow me to gracefully correct and continue. > > I think this one of the big wins for Pharo/Smalltalk. We can sometimes > mess up and recover gracefully. > > I think small things like this should possibly be collected in a document > as to some reasons for Pharo. > > Thanks. > > Jimmie > > > >

May 2, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Can you help me find this info?

by HernÃ¡n Morales Durand

2016-05-02 6:30 GMT-03:00 Victor RENE <victor-rene.dev(a)outlook.com>: > Hello, > > I am new to Pharo and would like to understand a few things. > I can search by myself, but I do not know the code base yet, so: > > [Questions] > Pharo image: > Serialization, deserialization, where is the code? > Have a look at Fuel classes (those starting with FL) > Pharo vm (Cog/Spur): > Rendering loop and event loops. done with SDL2, where is the code? > For low-level stuff you should check the primitives and/or plugins code (C code) and its interface code (Slang code, Smalltalk subset language to interface Slang to C code) which used to be in the VMMaker package (didn't checked lately). > Message passing, object hierarchy lookup, where is the code? > There was a paper of Hernan Wilkinson about method lookup but I cannot find the link. > Pharo minimal: > How to get a working version? The builds I tried (4.0) crashed. > > I don't know if it's working or experimental, it used to work some time ago. > [Purpose] > My goal is work out an image/vm with minimum overhead. For example, > let's say I want to build a modern multi-touch application. > Pharo's environment looks promising on the live coding/debugging side, > but what about the performance? Lack of responsiveness would not be > acceptable (think about design differences between Android/iOS). > > [Context] > I want to understand if the object oriented nature of Smalltalk is > the reason for the lack of apps of this nature (as far as I can tell). > For example, games have been done with Lisp: Jack and Daxter (on the PS2, > by Naughty Dogs). There are also game engines for the JVM > (https://www.lwjgl.org/) > Dedicated hardware has been built for either Lisp or Forth. I can't seem > to find any hardware built specifically to power Smalltalk software. > Yet as far as I can tell, it's the big time for software virtual machines, > because the new generation of hardware will be supporting them. > (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10032295) > > http://basis.desk.org:8080/ToytownStLab/Smalltalk+hardware > UPDATE: I am reading through "Evaluating message passing control techniques > in Smalltalk" ( > https://www.researchgate.net/publication/2440118_Evaluating_Message_Passing… > ). > I am getting a better picture of the whole, please direct to more such > papers. > > Thanks, > > Victor RENE > Software engineer, > Game designer, Writer > > Blog: http://victor-rene.com > Projects: http://logiqub.com > > tel: +33 6 26 83 61 76 > email: victor-rene(a)outlook.com > >

May 2, 2016

What other languages can do something similar?

by Jimmie Houchin

While working on a project I made a mistake in some code. A common mistake in most languages, a less common one in Smalltalk or Pharo. Something similar to the below. foreverTrue | index end | [ index < end ] whileTrue: [ "Do something clever. But forget to increment index." ]. ^ returnSomething I can execute foreverTrue in a Playground and when nothing returns in an appropriate amount of time. I can stop the execution. Fix the bug. Try again. I lose nothing. All my data, all my image state is still there. I do not have to do anything special to execute foreverTrue again, but now successfully so. Because Pharo/Smalltalk is so much more than just a programming language, this is possible. Most languages I know you would have to kill the vm and start all over. I would have to do everything I had already done to get to the correct state in order to execute my method. I guess many static languages might catch the bug and not allow execution. But I have no experience there. I was just curious as to what other languages, environments might survive my mistake and allow me to gracefully correct and continue. I think this one of the big wins for Pharo/Smalltalk. We can sometimes mess up and recover gracefully. I think small things like this should possibly be collected in a document as to some reasons for Pharo. Thanks. Jimmie

May 2, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Can you help me find this info?

by Serge Stinckwich

Maybe you should register for Pharo MOOC: https://www.fun-mooc.fr/courses/inria/41010/session01/about?platform=hootsu… This is English/French and start today ;-) Regards, On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 5:30 PM, Victor RENE <victor-rene.dev(a)outlook.com> wrote: > Hello, > > I am new to Pharo and would like to understand a few things. > I can search by myself, but I do not know the code base yet, so: > > [Questions] > Pharo image: > Serialization, deserialization, where is the code? > Pharo vm (Cog/Spur): > Rendering loop and event loops. done with SDL2, where is the code? > Message passing, object hierarchy lookup, where is the code? > Pharo minimal: > How to get a working version? The builds I tried (4.0) crashed. > > [Purpose] > My goal is work out an image/vm with minimum overhead. For example, > let's say I want to build a modern multi-touch application. > Pharo's environment looks promising on the live coding/debugging side, > but what about the performance? Lack of responsiveness would not be > acceptable (think about design differences between Android/iOS). > > [Context] > I want to understand if the object oriented nature of Smalltalk is > the reason for the lack of apps of this nature (as far as I can tell). > For example, games have been done with Lisp: Jack and Daxter (on the PS2, > by Naughty Dogs). There are also game engines for the JVM > (https://www.lwjgl.org/) > Dedicated hardware has been built for either Lisp or Forth. I can't seem > to find any hardware built specifically to power Smalltalk software. > Yet as far as I can tell, it's the big time for software virtual machines, > because the new generation of hardware will be supporting them. > (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10032295) > > UPDATE: I am reading through "Evaluating message passing control techniques > in Smalltalk" > (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/2440118_Evaluating_Message_Passing…) > I am getting a better picture of the whole, please direct to more such > papers. > > Thanks, > > Victor RENE > Software engineer, > Game designer, Writer > > Blog: http://victor-rene.com > Projects: http://logiqub.com > > tel: +33 6 26 83 61 76 > email: victor-rene(a)outlook.com > -- Serge Stinckwich UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

May 2, 2016

Can you help me find this info?

by Victor RENE

Hello, I am new to Pharo and would like to understand a few things. I can search by myself, but I do not know the code base yet, so: [Questions] Pharo image: Serialization, deserialization, where is the code? Pharo vm (Cog/Spur): Rendering loop and event loops. done with SDL2, where is the code? Message passing, object hierarchy lookup, where is the code? Pharo minimal: How to get a working version? The builds I tried (4.0) crashed. [Purpose] My goal is work out an image/vm with minimum overhead. For example, let's say I want to build a modern multi-touch application. Pharo's environment looks promising on the live coding/debugging side, but what about the performance? Lack of responsiveness would not be acceptable (think about design differences between Android/iOS). [Context] I want to understand if the object oriented nature of Smalltalk is the reason for the lack of apps of this nature (as far as I can tell). For example, games have been done with Lisp: Jack and Daxter (on the PS2, by Naughty Dogs). There are also game engines for the JVM (https://www.lwjgl.org/) Dedicated hardware has been built for either Lisp or Forth. I can't seem to find any hardware built specifically to power Smalltalk software. Yet as far as I can tell, it's the big time for software virtual machines, because the new generation of hardware will be supporting them. (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10032295) UPDATE: I am reading through "Evaluating message passing control techniques in Smalltalk" (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/2440118_Evaluating_Message_Passing…) I am getting a better picture of the whole, please direct to more such papers. Thanks, Victor RENESoftware engineer,Game designer, Writer Blog: http://victor-rene.comProjects: http://logiqub.com tel: +33 6 26 83 61 76email: victor-rene(a)outlook.com

May 2, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Best way to clear the Transcript?

by john pfersich

Transcript clear works for me in Pharo 4 and 5 images. On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 11:52 PM, Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > What version of Pharo? > > `Transcript clear.` does exactly that. :) > > On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 8:49 AM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> > wrote: > >> I am looking for a way to clear the Transcript. >> >> There is no direct command like Transcript clear available. >> >> I do not want to reopen a new one, just be able to clear one with code, >> so that I can leave the window placed properly where I want it. >> >> TIA >> Phil >> > >

May 2, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Best way to clear the Transcript?

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

What version of Pharo? `Transcript clear.` does exactly that. :) On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 8:49 AM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: > I am looking for a way to clear the Transcript. > > There is no direct command like Transcript clear available. > > I do not want to reopen a new one, just be able to clear one with code, so > that I can leave the window placed properly where I want it. > > TIA > Phil >

May 2, 2016

Best way to clear the Transcript?

by phil＠highoctane.be

I am looking for a way to clear the Transcript. There is no direct command like Transcript clear available. I do not want to reopen a new one, just be able to clear one with code, so that I can leave the window placed properly where I want it. TIA Phil

May 2, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Machine learning in Pharo

by stepharo

You have also Natural Smalltalk from hernan. It sounds like a good basis. Stef Le 1/5/16 Ã 18:50, Evan Donahue a Ã©crit : > Hello, > > I added a "MachineLearning" repository to Smalltalkhub a while back, but I > got sidetracked before adding anything beyond a naive KNN classifier, which > was really just to help prototype the testing framework. That said, my plans > involve expanding the library extensively this summer in conjunction with my > research, starting in about 6 days. I work on natural language processing, > so it is possible that I was already planning to build some of the models > you were intending to use. What models were you looking for? I also added a > parallel NLP repository, which is similarly barren but for a naive IBM Model > 1 translation model, which probably won't help you. > > Relatedly, I was contemplating building an RSS classifier myself, and would > gladly use one, were it to exist. > > Cheers, > Evan > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Machine-learning-in-Pharo-tp4893062p4893161.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >

May 1, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Machine learning in Pharo

by stepharo

for NLP Olivier started to work on Phonetix Now there is https://github.com/mark-watson/nlp_smalltalk But the lince is GPL3.0 and it looks simple... not sure it is worth to polute your life with such license. Stef Le 1/5/16 Ã 18:50, Evan Donahue a Ã©crit : > Hello, > > I added a "MachineLearning" repository to Smalltalkhub a while back, but I > got sidetracked before adding anything beyond a naive KNN classifier, which > was really just to help prototype the testing framework. That said, my plans > involve expanding the library extensively this summer in conjunction with my > research, starting in about 6 days. I work on natural language processing, > so it is possible that I was already planning to build some of the models > you were intending to use. What models were you looking for? I also added a > parallel NLP repository, which is similarly barren but for a naive IBM Model > 1 translation model, which probably won't help you. > > Relatedly, I was contemplating building an RSS classifier myself, and would > gladly use one, were it to exist. > > Cheers, > Evan > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Machine-learning-in-Pharo-tp4893062p4893161.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >

May 1, 2016