March 2016 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Fwd: Fwd: Phratch + Debian

by Hilaire

We should help to promote Phratch at the Education Nationale/FR because there is now the need for graphic programming tools. Right now Scratch2.0 is what most recommend but there is problem to use it on some situation. Moreover when custom features are needed, it is far more easier to get it done with Phratch. Hilaire Le 09/03/2016 22:03, stepharo a Ã©crit : > Cool initiative! > Tx Jannik > I blogged it and twitted it :) -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

March 10, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Roassal2 on Ubuntu 64

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

> Ok. Just to check. Are you advocating that leaving out cairo as a dependency of the main pharo app for new pharo users is a 'feature'? Until Bloc it is a feature, but if it is installed via package manager then it should imho also install cairo because that's not that hard there. The problem is the VM downloaded via zeroconf. Sorry I don't explain myself properly. I was meaning a window with this > message instead of a error trace, which could be intimidating. Something > with the same message and buttons like "Ok", "Launch debugger". In the > workshops there are some Gnu/Linux newbies and the hidding the error trace > for a while seems to be helpful to them. This should be relatively simple to do: 1) create new "PreDebugger" that's user-friendly (currently we have (GT)SpecPreDebugWindow that is started from (GT)SpecDebugger>>openWithNotification:) 2) let Debuggers ask for PreDebugWindow class through Smalltalk tools 3) install your UserFirendlyPreDubugWindow to Smalltalk tools I think this would be a very useful addition for many people. (I wanted to make this some time ago but haven't got around to do it yet.) No, but because we could build a wrapper for particular packages that > installs Nix, and then others (32 bits variants of libcairo or sqlite, > pandoc, etc) without caring about a particular Unix variant (being them Mac > or hundreds Gnu/Linux distros based on dozen of "bases"), making the > experience smother for the newbie, providing he/she has root privileges. > People will not see nix anywhere, not even for installing Mac is self-contained, so the main issue is linux. If the user has a root privilege, then maybe we should push for pharo directly in the package manager repository? And sure, there are hundreds of distros, but you will cover majority of the market withâ¦ maybe 5 distros? People that can't handle obscure distros don't install them. But to get some motion: 1) let's compile a list of majority distros 2) let's see how hard it is to build packages for them (imho this could be automated via CI), and we already have ubuntu package (or maybe nix can be pushed to all distros?) 3) maybe consider all-in-one bundle for non-root targets (this would work for cairo, but not for 64b systems in general, because the dependency list there is monstrous) So no need to be sarcastic here Peter. Sorry, I got carried away. I've got my fair share of dependency hell and introducing another package manager always makes me shiver. On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 4:40 PM, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: > On 10-03-16 15:28, Thierry Goubier wrote: > >> Recommande: pharo-vm-core:i386 >> >> pharo-vm-core suggest pharo-vm-desktop, and pharo-vm-desktop only >> recommand libcairo2 ? >> So, maybe we need to change the dependencies then ? >> > Yes, that sounds wrong. I would assume it to be: > Pharo launcher is a desktop application, > and the desktop needs Cairo. Core should be headless. > > Stephan > > >

March 10, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Roassal2 on Ubuntu 64

by Evan Donahue

D'oh. Yep, this did it. I think I've been bitten by 32 bits before both on sound and on file opening. One day I'll learn, and on that day, Pharo will be 64 bit. Thanks, Evan -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Roassal2-on-Ubuntu-64-tp4883675p4883840.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

March 10, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] [Moose-dev] Re: [Pharo-dev] RTAnchorConstraint

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

> To which problem? The problem is that RTSpringLayoutStepping always uses all the elements in the view and ignores what you set to the layout. This is a problem, because it will try to also layout the anchor, but that will trigger the anchor to fix itselfâ¦ and we get endless spinning. On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 4:21 PM, Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: > > On Mar 10, 2016, at 12:08, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> > wrote: > > > There is no other solution? Alex, do you have any idea? > > > To which problem? > > > Copy-paste from original mail: > > anchor constraints: they do not play well with layouts and animations. Try > the code below (adapted from the example to use the layout and animation of > LRP ) and you will see that the circles keep spinning around, they never > stop. I think it would be better for them to stop ;-) > > | v lbls es e1 e2 a1 a2 layout stepping| > v := RTView new. > lbls := RTLabel new elementsOn: #(#First #Second). > es := RTEllipse new > size: 30; > borderColor: Color black; > elementsOn: #(#source #dest). > v > addAll: lbls; > addAll: es. > es @ RTDraggable. > es @ RTLabeled. > e1 := RTArrowedLine new > withContinuousCircleAttachPoint; > color: Color black; > edgeFrom: es first to: es second. > v add: e1. > e2 := RTArrowedLine new > withContinuousCircleAttachPoint; > color: Color black; > edgeFrom: es second to: es first. > v add: e2. > a1 := RTAnchorConstraint new. > a1 anchorShape size: 10. > a1 guideLine color: Color red. > a1 > element: lbls first; > edge: e1; > balance: 0.2; > minDistance: 10; > build. > (a2 := RTAnchorConstraint new) > element: lbls second; > edge: e2; > balance: 0.2; > minDistance: 10; > build. > layout := RTForceBasedLayout new > charge: -450; length: 100; > doNotUseProgressBar; applyOn: es; yourself. > layout initialLayout: RTSugiyamaLayout new. > stepping := RTSpringLayoutStepping new > view: v; layout: layout; > afterBlock: [ v canvas camera focusOnCenter]. > v addAnimation: stepping. > ^ v > > > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- > > Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry > PLEIAD and RyCh labs - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University > of Chile > > > _______________________________________________ > Moose-dev mailing list > Moose-dev(a)list.inf.unibe.ch > https://www.list.inf.unibe.ch/listinfo/moose-dev > >

March 10, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Roassal2 on Ubuntu 64

by Stephan Eggermont

On 10-03-16 15:28, Thierry Goubier wrote: > Recommande: pharo-vm-core:i386 > > pharo-vm-core suggest pharo-vm-desktop, and pharo-vm-desktop only > recommand libcairo2 ? > So, maybe we need to change the dependencies then ? Yes, that sounds wrong. I would assume it to be: Pharo launcher is a desktop application, and the desktop needs Cairo. Core should be headless. Stephan

March 10, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Roassal2 on Ubuntu 64

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

Hi, On 10/03/16 09:52, Peter UhnÃ¡k wrote: > > I'm looking at the dependencies of pharo-launcher on ubuntu, and I > don't see any dependency on libcairo2:i386. > > > It's a Cairo dependency, not necessarily Pharo's dependency â i.e. you > can use Pharo for a long time and never need cairo. > > For a smother Gnu/Linux experience, the message could be a little > bit more descriptive, something advicing to check for LibCairo 32 > bit in the system and installing it, if it is not present. > > > Well the error does say 'Cannot locate cairo library. Please check if > it installed on your system', and from the paths it's checking its > pretty clear what it needs. > > So if you are a linux user it's more than enough to see what's going > on/what's needed. > And if you are not a linux user, then anything short of exact > instructions how to install it would be imho equally useless. > Sorry I don't explain myself properly. I was meaning a window with this message instead of a error trace, which could be intimidating. Something with the same message and buttons like "Ok", "Launch debugger". In the workshops there are some Gnu/Linux newbies and the hidding the error trace for a while seems to be helpful to them. > I have been thinking in some kind of interface with the Nix > package manager[2] > > > Because what's better than telling users how to install a package in a > particular distro? > Tell them how to install a whole new package manager in their > particular distro and then tell them how to install a package. > No, but because we could build a wrapper for particular packages that installs Nix, and then others (32 bits variants of libcairo or sqlite, pandoc, etc) without caring about a particular Unix variant (being them Mac or hundreds Gnu/Linux distros based on dozen of "bases"), making the experience smother for the newbie, providing he/she has root privileges. People will not see nix anywhere, not even for installing (by the way it is just one command no matter of the distro -curl) and then any other external package would be available. So no need to be sarcastic here Peter. > We can also go all the way and just bundle all the libraries and have > option to download "self-contained linux vm" (this is what I've > actually done for one of my projects, because the users didn't have > root privilege to install new packages on the computers). > That would be a nice option at least for Moose/Roassal related experiences. Cheers, Offray

March 10, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] [Moose-dev] [Pharo-dev] RTAnchorConstraint

by Johan Fabry

> On Mar 10, 2016, at 12:08, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > >> >> There is no other solution? Alex, do you have any idea? > > To which problem? Copy-paste from original mail: anchor constraints: they do not play well with layouts and animations. Try the code below (adapted from the example to use the layout and animation of LRP ) and you will see that the circles keep spinning around, they never stop. I think it would be better for them to stop ;-) | v lbls es e1 e2 a1 a2 layout stepping| v := RTView new. lbls := RTLabel new elementsOn: #(#First #Second). es := RTEllipse new size: 30; borderColor: Color black; elementsOn: #(#source #dest). v addAll: lbls; addAll: es. es @ RTDraggable. es @ RTLabeled. e1 := RTArrowedLine new withContinuousCircleAttachPoint; color: Color black; edgeFrom: es first to: es second. v add: e1. e2 := RTArrowedLine new withContinuousCircleAttachPoint; color: Color black; edgeFrom: es second to: es first. v add: e2. a1 := RTAnchorConstraint new. a1 anchorShape size: 10. a1 guideLine color: Color red. a1 element: lbls first; edge: e1; balance: 0.2; minDistance: 10; build. (a2 := RTAnchorConstraint new) element: lbls second; edge: e2; balance: 0.2; minDistance: 10; build. layout := RTForceBasedLayout new charge: -450; length: 100; doNotUseProgressBar; applyOn: es; yourself. layout initialLayout: RTSugiyamaLayout new. stepping := RTSpringLayoutStepping new view: v; layout: layout; afterBlock: [ v canvas camera focusOnCenter]. v addAnimation: stepping. ^ v ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD and RyCh labs - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

March 10, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Roassal2 on Ubuntu 64

by Thierry Goubier

2016-03-10 15:52 GMT+01:00 Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com>: > I'm looking at the dependencies of pharo-launcher on ubuntu, and I don't >> see any dependency on libcairo2:i386. > > > It's a Cairo dependency, not necessarily Pharo's dependency â i.e. you can > use Pharo for a long time and never need cairo. > > For a smother Gnu/Linux experience, the message could be a little bit more >> descriptive, something advicing to check for LibCairo 32 bit in the system >> and installing it, if it is not present. > > > Well the error does say 'Cannot locate cairo library. Please check if it > installed on your system', and from the paths it's checking its pretty > clear what it needs. > Ok. Just to check. Are you advocating that leaving out cairo as a dependency of the main pharo app for new pharo users is a 'feature'? Thierry > > So if you are a linux user it's more than enough to see what's going > on/what's needed. > And if you are not a linux user, then anything short of exact instructions > how to install it would be imho equally useless. > > I have been thinking in some kind of interface with the Nix package >> manager[2] > > > Because what's better than telling users how to install a package in a > particular distro? > Tell them how to install a whole new package manager in their particular > distro and then tell them how to install a package. > > We can also go all the way and just bundle all the libraries and have > option to download "self-contained linux vm" (this is what I've actually > done for one of my projects, because the users didn't have root privilege > to install new packages on the computers). > > On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 3:31 PM, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas < > offray.luna(a)mutabit.com> wrote: > >> Evan, >> >> We had this problem in every Data Week workshop. Is just matter of >> installing the libcairo 32 bits package for your Linux distro. In the case >> of ubuntu, you could adapt instructions at [1]. For a smother Gnu/Linux >> experience, the message could be a little bit more descriptive, something >> advicing to check for LibCairo 32 bit in the system and installing it, if >> it is not present. About multi-unix package installation support, I have >> been thinking in some kind of interface with the Nix package manager[2], so >> when something is not there, Pharo could offer automatic installation. >> >> [1] >> http://askubuntu.com/questions/107230/what-happened-to-the-ia32-libs-package >> [2] http://nixos.org/nix/ >> >> Cheers, >> >> Offray >> >> >> On 10/03/16 09:12, Peter UhnÃ¡k wrote: >> >> On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 3:01 PM, Alexandre Bergel < >> <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com>alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: >> >>> Evan, let us know how it goes! This is important to understand whatâs >>> going on >>> >> >> Well this is well-known thing. Pharo is 32bit only, so all libraries have >> to be also. >> >> But maybe it could be mentioned just-in-case somewhere on the website, >> and ways how to install it on linux (i.e. what command should the linux >> user execute in his particular distro, e.g. apt-get install libcairo2:i386 >> on debian/ubuntu, XYZ on Arch linux, etc.)? >> >> For both Windows and Mac the cairo library is bundled with the VM, but in >> linux it's a bad practice and package manager should be used instead to >> install the packages (on linux it's actually 6 libraries, but package >> manager handles the dependencies automatically). >> >> Peter >> >> >> >

March 10, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] [Moose-dev] RTAnchorConstraint

by Alexandre Bergel

Any code I can have to reproduce the problem? Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > On Mar 10, 2016, at 11:25 AM, Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: > > But now there is a new bug RTAnchorConstraint>>computeExtraDistance that I cannot reliably reproduce,

March 10, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] [Moose-dev] RTAnchorConstraint

by Alexandre Bergel

> > There is no other solution? Alex, do you have any idea? To which problem? Alexandre

March 10, 2016