February 2016 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] Spec doc

by stepharo

Hilaire Spec is not at the level I would like. I feel concerned about it and sad as well. Now I do not have the time to improve it. What would be is that people provide some snippet showing their use and that we collect that into the draft. Stef Le 4/2/16 17:42, Hilaire a Ã©crit : > Hello > > I want to evaluate the use of Spec for desktop application. > > What are the recommended spec reading? > > Is Spec feature complete enough to develop application with complex GUI? > (very subjective question) > > Is it intended to remain compatible with future release and modification > of the underneath graphic system? > > Thanks > > Hilaire

Feb. 4, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Spec doc

by Stephan Eggermont

On 04-02-16 17:42, Hilaire wrote: > Hello > > I want to evaluate the use of Spec for desktop application. > > What are the recommended spec reading? > > Is Spec feature complete enough to develop application with complex GUI? > (very subjective question) You will probably have to encapsulate a few more Morphic classes and add some behaviors to the spec models. In PharoLauncher you can already see a few extensions and combinations. In PharoLauncher there is a single session called PhlCommandContext and commands that operate on that session. You might need to add better form layout. > Is it intended to remain compatible with future release and modification > of the underneath graphic system? Yes. Stephan

Feb. 4, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Simple question about Spec

by Ben Coman

On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 12:02 AM, Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: > >> On Feb 4, 2016, at 11:26, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >> >>> >>> On 04 Feb 2016, at 15:21, Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Yes, please do that! I would do it myself but Iâm on holiday this month and not allowed to touch the computer much ;-) >> >> And still you somehow managed to type this message ;-) > > It just shows how important Pharo is to me :-P Is it strange that both drugs and computers are the main domains that refer to having "users"?

Feb. 4, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Another question about Spec

by Julien Delplanque

Ok, I just tried what you said and it does not always works since it is possible to drag an item from the list without selecting it... Julien On 04/02/16 17:42, Julien Delplanque wrote: > Oh, I realize I didn't read your mail correctly, I'm sorry. > > I will try this trick. > > Julien > > On 04/02/16 16:55, Johan Fabry wrote: >> I donât know the details of drag and drop, but it seems that you get >> the source widget as well as an argument of the block. From there you >> can get the selectedItem, which should be the one that you are >> dragging I suppose. Can you confirm that this works? >> >>> On Feb 4, 2016, at 04:38, Julien Delplanque <julien(a)tamere.eu> wrote: >>> >>> Hey, >>> >>> I use drag and drop between two lists in a project and I read this >>> tutorial [1] to learn how to do it. >>> >>> My question is: Is there a way to have another object than a String >>> as passengers in #acceptDropBlock: (I get passengers the same way as >>> in the tutorial i.e sending #passenger to transfer object) like the >>> objects really in the list? Because if I use #displayBlock: it >>> became difficult to be sure I retrieve the object I dropped in the >>> source list... >>> >>> Thanks in advance, >>> >>> Julien >>> >>> [1]: http://spec.st/docs/drag_n_drop/ >>> >>> >> >> >> ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- >> >> Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry >> PLEIAD and RyCh labs - Computer Science Department (DCC) - >> University of Chile >> >> >

Feb. 4, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Spec doc

by Julien Delplanque

Hi, On 04/02/16 17:42, Hilaire wrote: > Hello > > I want to evaluate the use of Spec for desktop application. > > What are the recommended spec reading? I suppose this link: http://spec.st/docs/home/ and the examples in 'Spec-Examples' package. > > Is Spec feature complete enough to develop application with complex GUI? > (very subjective question) I can not really answer this since I only begin with Spec but, right now, I have difficulties with drag and drop between lists but it may be my fault. > > Is it intended to remain compatible with future release and modification > of the underneath graphic system? > > Thanks > > Hilaire Julien

Feb. 4, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Spec doc

by Johan Fabry

Hello Hilaire, I think a mail of Sven of last year will answer most of your questions, I quote it below. In addition to that mail: - Spec is the standard UI builder for Pharo so it is reasonably complete and should be supported in the future. - The book Sven talks about is very much a work in progress, the URL for now is https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Books/job/PharoBookWorkInProgre… Here is the original mail by Sven: > There is an excellent presentation by Johan Fabry did during the last Pharo Days, 'Using Spec to Build a UI'. *MUST WATCH* (the video is not yet fully public, but soon will be, the link should work though): > > http://youtu.be/OL23s9ZUIR0?list=PL4actYd6bfnz98ngrKALwwStl3C3odEKG > > The slides are also not yet available, but soon will be (the talk is much better that the slides on their own). > > > This draft chapter 'Spec: a framework for describing user interfaces' for an upcoming book: > > https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Books/job/PharoBookWorkInProgre… > > > Look in the image. > > Browse the hierarchy below AbstractWidgetModel in the category Spec-Core-Widgets in Pharo 4, look at the protocols called 'protocol' & 'protocol-events' mainly. Look for references to each class. Trace senders of methods until you arrive at examples. Study the examples, play with them, change them. > > The UI of most tools in Pharo is also implemented using Spec. Browse the hierarchy below ComposableModel to find them. (Komitter, Versionner, Critics, Metacello, the old Eye Inspectors, ..). Watch and learn. > > > The cool Spec website: > > http://spec.st > > > Read some cool articles like: > > https://medium.com/concerning-pharo/rediscovering-the-ux-of-the-legendary-h… > > See the section 'HP35CalculatorModel' for the Spec part. > > > The following papers (some older ones refer to API that has changed): > > 'Seamless Composition and Reuse of Customizable User Interfaces with Spec' > > http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/archives/papers/Ryse13a-SCICO-Spec.pdf > > 'Spec - A Framework for the Specification and Reuse of UIs and their Models' > > http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/archives/papers/Ryse12b-Spec-IWST12-Final.pdf > > 'Spec â Technical Report' > > http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/archives/reports/Ryse12a-SpecTechReport.pdf > > > Use the image to build a couple of simple UIs using Spec. You will be surprised to learn that it is not that difficult. Just go with the flow, don't try to enforce your world view on it, wait until you are further along. > On Feb 4, 2016, at 13:42, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: > > Hello > > I want to evaluate the use of Spec for desktop application. > > What are the recommended spec reading? > > Is Spec feature complete enough to develop application with complex GUI? > (very subjective question) > > Is it intended to remain compatible with future release and modification > of the underneath graphic system? > > Thanks > > Hilaire > -- > Dr. Geo > http://drgeo.eu > > > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD and RyCh labs - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Feb. 4, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Another question about Spec

by Julien Delplanque

Oh, I realize I didn't read your mail correctly, I'm sorry. I will try this trick. Julien On 04/02/16 16:55, Johan Fabry wrote: > I donât know the details of drag and drop, but it seems that you get the source widget as well as an argument of the block. From there you can get the selectedItem, which should be the one that you are dragging I suppose. Can you confirm that this works? > >> On Feb 4, 2016, at 04:38, Julien Delplanque <julien(a)tamere.eu> wrote: >> >> Hey, >> >> I use drag and drop between two lists in a project and I read this tutorial [1] to learn how to do it. >> >> My question is: Is there a way to have another object than a String as passengers in #acceptDropBlock: (I get passengers the same way as in the tutorial i.e sending #passenger to transfer object) like the objects really in the list? Because if I use #displayBlock: it became difficult to be sure I retrieve the object I dropped in the source list... >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> Julien >> >> [1]: http://spec.st/docs/drag_n_drop/ >> >> > > > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- > > Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry > PLEIAD and RyCh labs - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile > >

Feb. 4, 2016

Spec doc

by Hilaire

Hello I want to evaluate the use of Spec for desktop application. What are the recommended spec reading? Is Spec feature complete enough to develop application with complex GUI? (very subjective question) Is it intended to remain compatible with future release and modification of the underneath graphic system? Thanks Hilaire -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

Feb. 4, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Another question about Spec

by Julien Delplanque

I understand what you say but sadly, it will not work in my case because: - I use #displayBlock: - Two or more items may be different objects but the result of the display block is the same. So I can't just use the string to retrieve the item in the list... :( Julien On 04/02/16 16:55, Johan Fabry wrote: > I donât know the details of drag and drop, but it seems that you get the source widget as well as an argument of the block. From there you can get the selectedItem, which should be the one that you are dragging I suppose. Can you confirm that this works? > >> On Feb 4, 2016, at 04:38, Julien Delplanque <julien(a)tamere.eu> wrote: >> >> Hey, >> >> I use drag and drop between two lists in a project and I read this tutorial [1] to learn how to do it. >> >> My question is: Is there a way to have another object than a String as passengers in #acceptDropBlock: (I get passengers the same way as in the tutorial i.e sending #passenger to transfer object) like the objects really in the list? Because if I use #displayBlock: it became difficult to be sure I retrieve the object I dropped in the source list... >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> Julien >> >> [1]: http://spec.st/docs/drag_n_drop/ >> >> > > > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- > > Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry > PLEIAD and RyCh labs - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile > >

Feb. 4, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Simple question about Spec

by Johan Fabry

> On Feb 4, 2016, at 11:26, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > >> >> On 04 Feb 2016, at 15:21, Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: >> >> >> Yes, please do that! I would do it myself but Iâm on holiday this month and not allowed to touch the computer much ;-) > > And still you somehow managed to type this message ;-) It just shows how important Pharo is to me :-P ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD and RyCh labs - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Feb. 4, 2016