February 2016 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] Spec doc

by Serge Stinckwich

On Sun, Feb 7, 2016 at 10:22 AM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand <hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > 2016-02-07 5:33 GMT-03:00 stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr>: >> >> >> >> Le 6/2/16 21:44, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand a Ã©crit : >> >> As always I don't have time to open, follow and check issues. It is faster >> (for me) if I have them isolated. >> But my repos are always open and anyone can feel free to ask me about the >> extensions. >> Sorry for this. >> >> I cannot believe that it takes you that much time to open a bug entry and >> package your changes >> compared with getting impacted the next teim we will do a pass on spec >> > > When I am coding I am concentrated in building features for my application, > I cannot stop 5 minutes every time I find missing or bug in methods in Spec, > Metacello, Glamour (which is *very* often), or other core packages. > > On the other side opening an entry is more than saying "this doesn't work", > there is a context of usage you have to explain, you have to search for > previously opened similar entries, you have to try to reproduce the exact > steps (not always possible), describe them in an undestandable way for the > reader, and if you propose a fix sometimes you have to explain again, and > check for regressions.... you all know the right steps. > > So in this case, I have packaged my Spec extensions (which needs to be > reviewed anyway) and uploaded to SmalltalkHub under MIT license. I am sorry > to hear that is not enough for you. If anyone really wish to review > extensions in Spec please welcome - because they would probably also > contains bugs - I cannot do more for Pharo now and I have to work for my > employer which is asking me everyday things completely far far away from > Pharo (you know I do not want to get fired :). > >> Now you are telling us that do not know what you did to do that. >> This is a bit unfair when I see the COUNTLESS hours I spend writing docs >> and improving Pharo. >> > > Yes, and I think most of us sincerely appreciate your efforts. And I also > believe many of us have our own battles. Actually I had to "fight" every > week for Pharo because having people telling Python/R has implemented X > (which is crappy argument) is not easy. We are on the same boat Hernan :-) I heard the same crap. This is why this is important to play cooperatively between us and report bugs upstream if possible. Thank you for your effort for pushing the use of Pharo in such directions ! I will have a look to your work about phylogenetics. With BioSmalltalk, SciSmalltalk and Kendrick, I think that we are pushing hard Pharo in the domain of biology/epidemiology modeling. We should try to share as much as possible what we are doing. Regards, -- Serge Stinckwich UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

Feb. 7, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Spec doc

by HernÃ¡n Morales Durand

Thanks, I will check later because it's 6 a.m. and I have to sleep :) Cheers, HernÃ¡n 2016-02-07 6:13 GMT-03:00 stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr>: > Hi hernan > > some feedback/questions while waiting for my kids... > > ============= > "protocol: *SpecUIAddOns" > includesNameBeginsWith: aString > " Answer whether the receiver begins with aString. " > > ^ self asLowercase = aString first asLowercase > > > does not look like doing what it says. > > > ===================================== > I do not get > > specModalParent > " Receiver cannot be modal parent, answer a default (morphic world) " > > ^ [ self currentWorld ] > on: Error > do: [ : ex | UIManager default currentWorld ] > > > ===================================== > > In searchableTree > > either use tree or self tree > > "protocol: *SpecUIAddOns" > autoMultiSelection: aBoolean > > self tree autoMultiSelection: aBoolean > > > > It was interested to see that you added a lot of methods > > methods > self xxxmodel methods > > I was against them. > Now the point is > > if we ban such idiom > > remove: anItem > self listModel remove: anItem > > then (beside exposing the model which would be ok for me if we consider it > as a port) > > we have the problem of encapsulating more complex behavior > such > > removeAllItems > > self listModel removeAll. > self updateList > > So probably that > > remove: anItem > self listModel remove: anItem > > is better > > > Stef > > > >

Feb. 7, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Spec doc

by HernÃ¡n Morales Durand

2016-02-07 5:33 GMT-03:00 stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr>: > > > Le 6/2/16 21:44, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand a Ã©crit : > > As always I don't have time to open, follow and check issues. It is faster > (for me) if I have them isolated. > But my repos are always open and anyone can feel free to ask me about the > extensions. > Sorry for this. > > I cannot believe that it takes you that much time to open a bug entry and > package your changes > compared with getting impacted the next teim we will do a pass on spec > > When I am coding I am concentrated in building features for my application, I cannot stop 5 minutes every time I find missing or bug in methods in Spec, Metacello, Glamour (which is *very* often), or other core packages. On the other side opening an entry is more than saying "this doesn't work", there is a context of usage you have to explain, you have to search for previously opened similar entries, you have to try to reproduce the exact steps (not always possible), describe them in an undestandable way for the reader, and if you propose a fix sometimes you have to explain again, and check for regressions.... you all know the right steps. So in this case, I have packaged my Spec extensions (which needs to be reviewed anyway) and uploaded to SmalltalkHub under MIT license. I am sorry to hear that is not enough for you. If anyone really wish to review extensions in Spec please welcome - because they would probably also contains bugs - I cannot do more for Pharo now and I have to work for my employer which is asking me everyday things completely far far away from Pharo (you know I do not want to get fired :). Now you are telling us that do not know what you did to do that. > This is a bit unfair when I see the COUNTLESS hours I spend writing docs > and improving Pharo. > > Yes, and I think most of us sincerely appreciate your efforts. And I also believe many of us have our own battles. Actually I had to "fight" every week for Pharo because having people telling Python/R has implemented X (which is crappy argument) is not easy. HernÃ¡n > Stef > > > HernÃ¡n > > > 2016-02-06 16:45 GMT-03:00 stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr>: > >> Hernan >> >> why did you push such extensions in the main spec version inside the >> image? >> I do not get the rationale of not doing it. Especially since we always >> welcome >> enhancements. >> >> Stef >> >> Le 5/2/16 18:55, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand a Ã©crit : >> >> BTW have a look at http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~hernan/SpecUIAddOns . >> Repository contains behaviors I had to add while developing a desktop >> application. >> >> Hernan >> >> >> 2016-02-05 8:52 GMT-03:00 HernÃ¡n Morales Durand < >> <hernan.morales(a)gmail.com>hernan.morales(a)gmail.com>: >> >>> Hi Hilaire, >>> >>> 2016-02-04 13:42 GMT-03:00 Hilaire < <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu>hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> >>> : >>> >>>> Hello >>>> >>>> I want to evaluate the use of Spec for desktop application. >>>> >>>> What are the recommended spec reading? >>>> >>>> >>> In this case, the best is to read source code in the image. >>> >>> >>>> Is Spec feature complete enough to develop application with complex GUI? >>>> (very subjective question) >>>> >>>> >>> Besides all good intentions and nice innocent feelings, Spec is not >>> ready yet for professional UI development. However you can lower your >>> ambitions by building simpler UI components. The lack of a UI builder is >>> not helping at all. >>> >>> HernÃ¡n >>> >>> >> >> >> > >

Feb. 7, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Spec doc

by stepharo

Hi hernan some feedback/questions while waiting for my kids... ============= "protocol: *SpecUIAddOns" includesNameBeginsWith: aString " Answer whether the receiver begins with aString. " ^ self asLowercase = aString first asLowercase does not look like doing what it says. ===================================== I do not get specModalParent " Receiver cannot be modal parent, answer a default (morphic world) " ^ [ self currentWorld ] on: Error do: [ : ex | UIManager default currentWorld ] ===================================== In searchableTree either use tree or self tree "protocol: *SpecUIAddOns" autoMultiSelection: aBoolean self tree autoMultiSelection: aBoolean It was interested to see that you added a lot of methods methods self xxxmodel methods I was against them. Now the point is if we ban such idiom remove: anItem self listModel remove: anItem then (beside exposing the model which would be ok for me if we consider it as a port) we have the problem of encapsulating more complex behavior such removeAllItems self listModel removeAll. self updateList So probably that remove: anItem self listModel remove: anItem is better Stef

Feb. 7, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Spec doc

by stepharo

Le 6/2/16 21:44, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand a Ã©crit : > As always I don't have time to open, follow and check issues. It is > faster (for me) if I have them isolated. > But my repos are always open and anyone can feel free to ask me about > the extensions. > Sorry for this. I cannot believe that it takes you that much time to open a bug entry and package your changes compared with getting impacted the next teim we will do a pass on spec Now you are telling us that do not know what you did to do that. This is a bit unfair when I see the COUNTLESS hours I spend writing docs and improving Pharo. Stef > > HernÃ¡n > > > 2016-02-06 16:45 GMT-03:00 stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr > <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>>: > > Hernan > > why did you push such extensions in the main spec version inside > the image? > I do not get the rationale of not doing it. Especially since we > always welcome > enhancements. > > Stef > > Le 5/2/16 18:55, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand a Ã©crit : >> BTW have a look at >> http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~hernan/SpecUIAddOns >> <http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#%21/%7Ehernan/SpecUIAddOns> . >> Repository contains behaviors I had to add while developing a >> desktop application. >> >> Hernan >> >> >> 2016-02-05 8:52 GMT-03:00 HernÃ¡n Morales Durand >> <hernan.morales(a)gmail.com <mailto:hernan.morales@gmail.com>>: >> >> Hi Hilaire, >> >> 2016-02-04 13:42 GMT-03:00 Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu >> <mailto:hilaire@drgeo.eu>>: >> >> Hello >> >> I want to evaluate the use of Spec for desktop application. >> >> What are the recommended spec reading? >> >> >> In this case, the best is to read source code in the image. >> >> Is Spec feature complete enough to develop application >> with complex GUI? >> (very subjective question) >> >> >> Besides all good intentions and nice innocent feelings, Spec >> is not ready yet for professional UI development. However you >> can lower your ambitions by building simpler UI components. >> The lack of a UI builder is not helping at all. >> >> HernÃ¡n >> >> > >

Feb. 7, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] [Bulk] smalltalk banner or poster for FOSSASIA conference.

by Yanni Chiu

On Feb 6, 2016, at 9:21 AM, Martin BÃ¤hr <mbaehr(a)email.archlab.tuwien.ac.at> wrote: > as i have been working on smalltalk projects within FOSSASIA for Google Summer > of Code and Google Code-In, as well as run smalltalk workshops at the FOSSASIA > conference, i have been invited to run a small booth and put up a banner about > smalltalk. Thatâs great news. What did you present in the previous workshops? > details about the conference are here: http://2016.fossasia.org/ > > since time is short, i wonder if a banner design for pharo already exists, that > i could use. alternatively, a poster, that can be stretched, or two posters on > top of each other. if there is nothing ready, maybe the design that was posted > to the list most recently can be stretched into a banner. I donât see any useful banner at https://smalltalkrenaissance.wordpress.com/, but maybe you can try to contact the author. The guy behind the Smalltalk Renaissance (Richard Eng) gave up on it after one year, but his articles said heâd worked on Smalltalk promotional materials. > my workshop this year will be using roassal, so something about that would also > work, or other smalltalk topics, like squeak, etoys, etc... > > it would of course also be nice to meet other smalltalkers in singapore next > month. Iâll help you run the booth, if I make it out. -- Yanni Chiu

Feb. 7, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Spec doc

by HernÃ¡n Morales Durand

As always I don't have time to open, follow and check issues. It is faster (for me) if I have them isolated. But my repos are always open and anyone can feel free to ask me about the extensions. Sorry for this. HernÃ¡n 2016-02-06 16:45 GMT-03:00 stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr>: > Hernan > > why did you push such extensions in the main spec version inside the image? > I do not get the rationale of not doing it. Especially since we always > welcome > enhancements. > > Stef > > Le 5/2/16 18:55, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand a Ã©crit : > > BTW have a look at http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~hernan/SpecUIAddOns . > Repository contains behaviors I had to add while developing a desktop > application. > > Hernan > > > 2016-02-05 8:52 GMT-03:00 HernÃ¡n Morales Durand <hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> > : > >> Hi Hilaire, >> >> 2016-02-04 13:42 GMT-03:00 Hilaire < <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu>hilaire(a)drgeo.eu>: >> >>> Hello >>> >>> I want to evaluate the use of Spec for desktop application. >>> >>> What are the recommended spec reading? >>> >>> >> In this case, the best is to read source code in the image. >> >> >>> Is Spec feature complete enough to develop application with complex GUI? >>> (very subjective question) >>> >>> >> Besides all good intentions and nice innocent feelings, Spec is not ready >> yet for professional UI development. However you can lower your ambitions >> by building simpler UI components. The lack of a UI builder is not helping >> at all. >> >> HernÃ¡n >> >> > > >

Feb. 6, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Spec doc

by stepharo

Hernan why did you push such extensions in the main spec version inside the image? I do not get the rationale of not doing it. Especially since we always welcome enhancements. Stef Le 5/2/16 18:55, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand a Ã©crit : > BTW have a look at http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~hernan/SpecUIAddOns > <http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#%21/%7Ehernan/SpecUIAddOns> . > Repository contains behaviors I had to add while developing a desktop > application. > > Hernan > > > 2016-02-05 8:52 GMT-03:00 HernÃ¡n Morales Durand > <hernan.morales(a)gmail.com <mailto:hernan.morales@gmail.com>>: > > Hi Hilaire, > > 2016-02-04 13:42 GMT-03:00 Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu > <mailto:hilaire@drgeo.eu>>: > > Hello > > I want to evaluate the use of Spec for desktop application. > > What are the recommended spec reading? > > > In this case, the best is to read source code in the image. > > Is Spec feature complete enough to develop application with > complex GUI? > (very subjective question) > > > Besides all good intentions and nice innocent feelings, Spec is > not ready yet for professional UI development. However you can > lower your ambitions by building simpler UI components. The lack > of a UI builder is not helping at all. > > HernÃ¡n > >

Feb. 6, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Spec doc

by HernÃ¡n Morales Durand

Hi Hilaire, Besides using Roassal2 for visualizations, it is pure Spec. Cheers, HernÃ¡n 2016-02-06 4:38 GMT-03:00 Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu>: > Thanks for the link HernÃ¡n! It looks nice. > > Are you mixing spec with other widgetery or is pure spec widget > composition? > > Hilaire > > -- > Dr. Geo > http://drgeo.eu > > >

Feb. 6, 2016

smalltalk banner or poster for FOSSASIA conference.

by Martin BÃ¤hr

hi, as i have been working on smalltalk projects within FOSSASIA for Google Summer of Code and Google Code-In, as well as run smalltalk workshops at the FOSSASIA conference, i have been invited to run a small booth and put up a banner about smalltalk. details about the conference are here: http://2016.fossasia.org/ since time is short, i wonder if a banner design for pharo already exists, that i could use. alternatively, a poster, that can be stretched, or two posters on top of each other. if there is nothing ready, maybe the design that was posted to the list most recently can be stretched into a banner. my workshop this year will be using roassal, so something about that would also work, or other smalltalk topics, like squeak, etoys, etc... it would of course also be nice to meet other smalltalkers in singapore next month. greetings, martin. -- eKita - the online platform for your entire academic life -- chief engineer eKita.co pike programmer pike.lysator.liu.se caudium.net societyserver.org secretary beijinglug.org mentor fossasia.org foresight developer foresightlinux.org realss.com unix sysadmin Martin BÃ¤hr working in china http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/

Feb. 6, 2016