October 2016 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Cog VM on Raspberry Pi ?

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Thanks, Esteban, that works: pi@raspberrypi ~/Pharo $ ./pharo-arm-vm/pharo --version 5.0-201610181220 Tue Oct 18 14:42:58 UTC 2016 gcc 4.9.2 [Production Spur VM] CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-rsf.1951 uuid: c714858a-7f63-47bd-a9ec-4bc1350eead2 Oct 18 2016 StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-rsf.1951 uuid: c714858a-7f63-47bd-a9ec-4bc1350eead2 Oct 18 2016 VM: 201610181220 https://github.com/estebanlm/opensmalltalk-vm.git $ Date: Tue Oct 18 14:20:17 2016 +0200 $ Plugins: 201610181220 https://github.com/estebanlm/opensmalltalk-vm.git $ Linux testing-gce-a8263b5d-fc45-4502-a6e9-cbf3483c9374 4.4.0-42-generic #62~14.04.1-Ubuntu SMP Fri Oct 7 23:15:48 UTC 2016 armv7l GNU/Linux plugin path: /home/pi/Pharo/pharo-arm-vm/ [default: /home/pi/Pharo/pharo-arm-vm/] pi@raspberrypi ~/Pharo $ ./pharo-arm-vm/pharo -vm-display-null Pharo.image printVersion [version] 5.0 #50581 pi@raspberrypi ~/Pharo $ ./pharo-arm-vm/pharo -vm-display-null Pharo.image eval '1 tinyBenchmarks' '167210973 bytecodes/sec; 11337746 sends/sec' Speed is similar to what I got before 160M bytecodes/s, 11M sends/s Maybe all the VMs that I tried before were all Cog VMs ? Is there still a stack VM (PharoS for ARM, 5.0) ? > On 18 Oct 2016, at 22:56, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Sven, > > this vm: pharo-linux-i386.7237aa8.zip > > should work. Name is bad but is an ARMv6 VMâ¦ did you tried it? > > Esteban > >> On 18 Oct 2016, at 22:50, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >> >> >>> On 18 Oct 2016, at 22:16, Todd Blanchard <tblanchard(a)mac.com> wrote: >>> >>> There is a scratch on cog vm as part of the standard raspbian distro. >>> >>> Have you tried that? >> >> The Squeak VMs that come with raspbian seem to be of the older variant (I am using Pharo 5). >> >> You known, "This interpreter (vers. 6505) cannot read image file (vers. 6521)." >> >> Still, in order to be sure we are talking about the exact same VM, version info is needed. >> >>>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 09:27, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 18 Oct 2016, at 14:29, Henrik Johansen <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 17 Oct 2016, at 8:43 , Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> Does a (faster) Cog VM for the Raspberry Pi actually exist ? >>>>>> >>>>>> I tried comparing the latest OpenSmalltalk VM with some older ones, only to find that they are all equally fast (slow actually): >>>>>> >>>>>> pi@raspberrypi ~/Pharo $ ./pharo -nodisplay Pharo.image printVersion >>>>>> [version] 5.0 #50581 >>>>>> >>>>>> "http://files.pharo.org/vm/pharoS/raspbian/latest.zip" >>>>>> >>>>>> pi@raspberrypi ~/Pharo $ ./pharo -nodisplay Pharo.image eval '1 tinyBenchmarks' >>>>>> '167429692 bytecodes/sec; 11160247 sends/sec' >>>>>> >>>>>> "http://www.mirandabanda.org/files/Cog/VM/VM.r3427/cogspurlinuxhtARM-15.33.3…" >>>>>> >>>>>> pi@raspberrypi ~/Pharo $ ./products/phcogspurlinuxhtRPi/pharo -nodisplay Pharo.image eval '1 tinyBenchmarks' >>>>>> '166992824 bytecodes/sec; 11337746 sends/sec' >>>>>> >>>>>> "https://bintray.com/opensmalltalk/vm/download_file?file_path=cog_linux32ARM…" >>>>>> >>>>>> pi@raspberrypi ~/Pharo $ ./products/phcogspurlinuxhtRPi/pharo -nodisplay Pharo.image eval '1 tinyBenchmarks' >>>>>> '166992824 bytecodes/sec; 11337746 sends/sec' >>>>>> >>>>>> That is no significant difference on a RPi 3, at all. Is this normal ? Am I missing something ? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thx, >>>>>> >>>>>> Sven >>>>>> >>>>>> PS: Just for reference, my Mac Book Pro is 10 times faster >>>>>> >>>>>> 1 tinyBenchmarks "'1323852617 bytecodes/sec; 174185794 sends/sec'" >>>>> >>>>> Are you 100% sure you benched different VM's? >>>>> A stack VM (PharoS) getting the same results as a Spur VM (cog_linux32ARMv6_pharo.cog.spur_201610142319.tar.gz) is rather suspicious... >>>>> >>>>> At least on my Pi3, the spur Cog VM gives numbers around 250M bytecodes/160M sends.... >>>>> which, while still "slow", is a decent bump in speed compared to what you're seeing. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Henry >>>> >>>> Hi Henry, >>>> >>>> That is exactly the kind of reference/experience I am looking for. >>>> Could you please point me to the exact download URL you downloaded ? >>>> I will happily test it ;-) >>>> >>>> Thx, >>>> >>>> Sven >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >

Oct. 18, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Cog VM on Raspberry Pi ?

by Esteban Lorenzano

Hi Sven, this vm: pharo-linux-i386.7237aa8.zip <https://bintray.com/estebanlm/pharo-vm/download_file?file_path=pharo-linux-…> should work. Name is bad but is an ARMv6 VMâ¦ did you tried it? Esteban > On 18 Oct 2016, at 22:50, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > >> On 18 Oct 2016, at 22:16, Todd Blanchard <tblanchard(a)mac.com> wrote: >> >> There is a scratch on cog vm as part of the standard raspbian distro. >> >> Have you tried that? > > The Squeak VMs that come with raspbian seem to be of the older variant (I am using Pharo 5). > > You known, "This interpreter (vers. 6505) cannot read image file (vers. 6521)." > > Still, in order to be sure we are talking about the exact same VM, version info is needed. > >>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 09:27, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On 18 Oct 2016, at 14:29, Henrik Johansen <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 17 Oct 2016, at 8:43 , Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> Does a (faster) Cog VM for the Raspberry Pi actually exist ? >>>>> >>>>> I tried comparing the latest OpenSmalltalk VM with some older ones, only to find that they are all equally fast (slow actually): >>>>> >>>>> pi@raspberrypi ~/Pharo $ ./pharo -nodisplay Pharo.image printVersion >>>>> [version] 5.0 #50581 >>>>> >>>>> "http://files.pharo.org/vm/pharoS/raspbian/latest.zip" >>>>> >>>>> pi@raspberrypi ~/Pharo $ ./pharo -nodisplay Pharo.image eval '1 tinyBenchmarks' >>>>> '167429692 bytecodes/sec; 11160247 sends/sec' >>>>> >>>>> "http://www.mirandabanda.org/files/Cog/VM/VM.r3427/cogspurlinuxhtARM-15.33.3…" >>>>> >>>>> pi@raspberrypi ~/Pharo $ ./products/phcogspurlinuxhtRPi/pharo -nodisplay Pharo.image eval '1 tinyBenchmarks' >>>>> '166992824 bytecodes/sec; 11337746 sends/sec' >>>>> >>>>> "https://bintray.com/opensmalltalk/vm/download_file?file_path=cog_linux32ARM…" >>>>> >>>>> pi@raspberrypi ~/Pharo $ ./products/phcogspurlinuxhtRPi/pharo -nodisplay Pharo.image eval '1 tinyBenchmarks' >>>>> '166992824 bytecodes/sec; 11337746 sends/sec' >>>>> >>>>> That is no significant difference on a RPi 3, at all. Is this normal ? Am I missing something ? >>>>> >>>>> Thx, >>>>> >>>>> Sven >>>>> >>>>> PS: Just for reference, my Mac Book Pro is 10 times faster >>>>> >>>>> 1 tinyBenchmarks "'1323852617 bytecodes/sec; 174185794 sends/sec'" >>>> >>>> Are you 100% sure you benched different VM's? >>>> A stack VM (PharoS) getting the same results as a Spur VM (cog_linux32ARMv6_pharo.cog.spur_201610142319.tar.gz) is rather suspicious... >>>> >>>> At least on my Pi3, the spur Cog VM gives numbers around 250M bytecodes/160M sends.... >>>> which, while still "slow", is a decent bump in speed compared to what you're seeing. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Henry >>> >>> Hi Henry, >>> >>> That is exactly the kind of reference/experience I am looking for. >>> Could you please point me to the exact download URL you downloaded ? >>> I will happily test it ;-) >>> >>> Thx, >>> >>> Sven >>> >>> >>> >> >> > >

Oct. 18, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Cog VM on Raspberry Pi ?

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 18 Oct 2016, at 22:16, Todd Blanchard <tblanchard(a)mac.com> wrote: > > There is a scratch on cog vm as part of the standard raspbian distro. > > Have you tried that? The Squeak VMs that come with raspbian seem to be of the older variant (I am using Pharo 5). You known, "This interpreter (vers. 6505) cannot read image file (vers. 6521)." Still, in order to be sure we are talking about the exact same VM, version info is needed. >> On Oct 18, 2016, at 09:27, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >> >> >>> On 18 Oct 2016, at 14:29, Henrik Johansen <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On 17 Oct 2016, at 8:43 , Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Does a (faster) Cog VM for the Raspberry Pi actually exist ? >>>> >>>> I tried comparing the latest OpenSmalltalk VM with some older ones, only to find that they are all equally fast (slow actually): >>>> >>>> pi@raspberrypi ~/Pharo $ ./pharo -nodisplay Pharo.image printVersion >>>> [version] 5.0 #50581 >>>> >>>> "http://files.pharo.org/vm/pharoS/raspbian/latest.zip" >>>> >>>> pi@raspberrypi ~/Pharo $ ./pharo -nodisplay Pharo.image eval '1 tinyBenchmarks' >>>> '167429692 bytecodes/sec; 11160247 sends/sec' >>>> >>>> "http://www.mirandabanda.org/files/Cog/VM/VM.r3427/cogspurlinuxhtARM-15.33.3…" >>>> >>>> pi@raspberrypi ~/Pharo $ ./products/phcogspurlinuxhtRPi/pharo -nodisplay Pharo.image eval '1 tinyBenchmarks' >>>> '166992824 bytecodes/sec; 11337746 sends/sec' >>>> >>>> "https://bintray.com/opensmalltalk/vm/download_file?file_path=cog_linux32ARM…" >>>> >>>> pi@raspberrypi ~/Pharo $ ./products/phcogspurlinuxhtRPi/pharo -nodisplay Pharo.image eval '1 tinyBenchmarks' >>>> '166992824 bytecodes/sec; 11337746 sends/sec' >>>> >>>> That is no significant difference on a RPi 3, at all. Is this normal ? Am I missing something ? >>>> >>>> Thx, >>>> >>>> Sven >>>> >>>> PS: Just for reference, my Mac Book Pro is 10 times faster >>>> >>>> 1 tinyBenchmarks "'1323852617 bytecodes/sec; 174185794 sends/sec'" >>> >>> Are you 100% sure you benched different VM's? >>> A stack VM (PharoS) getting the same results as a Spur VM (cog_linux32ARMv6_pharo.cog.spur_201610142319.tar.gz) is rather suspicious... >>> >>> At least on my Pi3, the spur Cog VM gives numbers around 250M bytecodes/160M sends.... >>> which, while still "slow", is a decent bump in speed compared to what you're seeing. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Henry >> >> Hi Henry, >> >> That is exactly the kind of reference/experience I am looking for. >> Could you please point me to the exact download URL you downloaded ? >> I will happily test it ;-) >> >> Thx, >> >> Sven >> >> >> > >

Oct. 18, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Cog VM on Raspberry Pi ?

by Todd Blanchard

There is a scratch on cog vm as part of the standard raspbian distro. Have you tried that? > On Oct 18, 2016, at 09:27, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > >> On 18 Oct 2016, at 14:29, Henrik Johansen <henrik.s.johansen(a)veloxit.no> wrote: >> >> >>> On 17 Oct 2016, at 8:43 , Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Does a (faster) Cog VM for the Raspberry Pi actually exist ? >>> >>> I tried comparing the latest OpenSmalltalk VM with some older ones, only to find that they are all equally fast (slow actually): >>> >>> pi@raspberrypi ~/Pharo $ ./pharo -nodisplay Pharo.image printVersion >>> [version] 5.0 #50581 >>> >>> "http://files.pharo.org/vm/pharoS/raspbian/latest.zip" >>> >>> pi@raspberrypi ~/Pharo $ ./pharo -nodisplay Pharo.image eval '1 tinyBenchmarks' >>> '167429692 bytecodes/sec; 11160247 sends/sec' >>> >>> "http://www.mirandabanda.org/files/Cog/VM/VM.r3427/cogspurlinuxhtARM-15.33.3…" >>> >>> pi@raspberrypi ~/Pharo $ ./products/phcogspurlinuxhtRPi/pharo -nodisplay Pharo.image eval '1 tinyBenchmarks' >>> '166992824 bytecodes/sec; 11337746 sends/sec' >>> >>> "https://bintray.com/opensmalltalk/vm/download_file?file_path=cog_linux32ARM…" >>> >>> pi@raspberrypi ~/Pharo $ ./products/phcogspurlinuxhtRPi/pharo -nodisplay Pharo.image eval '1 tinyBenchmarks' >>> '166992824 bytecodes/sec; 11337746 sends/sec' >>> >>> That is no significant difference on a RPi 3, at all. Is this normal ? Am I missing something ? >>> >>> Thx, >>> >>> Sven >>> >>> PS: Just for reference, my Mac Book Pro is 10 times faster >>> >>> 1 tinyBenchmarks "'1323852617 bytecodes/sec; 174185794 sends/sec'" >> >> Are you 100% sure you benched different VM's? >> A stack VM (PharoS) getting the same results as a Spur VM (cog_linux32ARMv6_pharo.cog.spur_201610142319.tar.gz) is rather suspicious... >> >> At least on my Pi3, the spur Cog VM gives numbers around 250M bytecodes/160M sends.... >> which, while still "slow", is a decent bump in speed compared to what you're seeing. >> >> Cheers, >> Henry > > Hi Henry, > > That is exactly the kind of reference/experience I am looking for. > Could you please point me to the exact download URL you downloaded ? > I will happily test it ;-) > > Thx, > > Sven > > >

Oct. 18, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] CodeGenerator, your opinions?

by Todd Blanchard

Yes, this is another one and I would like to see a nice interface to clang that then generated all the glue code for a given library based on its public header files. Smalltalk Agents used to do something like this. You could point it at a library and it would open it and generate Smalltalk bindings to everything the library exported. Ben has been blogging about experiments with just this, I'm kind of following along in his footsteps. Being able to import pretty much any library with a few clicks and use it from Pharo would go a long way towards making it attractive for real development. It seems rather silly we are doing all this painstaking work to keep database drivers and such up to date when we might be able to automate the bulk of it. > On Oct 18, 2016, at 10:38, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > > They are useful for writing VM plugins for example. The generic part.

Oct. 18, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] CodeGenerator, your opinions?

by Thierry Goubier

Le 18/10/2016 Ã 15:45, Otto Behrens a Ã©crit : >> for things like that, I would consider looking into the SmaCC visitor >> automatic generation. From an grammar, SmaCC creates the class, respecting >> an eventual inheritance constraint you specify, adds the instance variables, >> and generates the visitor (and an equality test too). > > Nice. Will have a look. Thanks. The thing is basically SmaCC is a automaton compiler, with two different generation strategies based on the type of automaton you are interested in. Plus a tree / visitor generation code. >> Regarding state machines generation, what class of automatons are you >> looking at? Because I'm looking at automatons generation by reusing SmaCC >> (for a tentative hardware architecture subject). > > We have some domain specific objects, for example investment > instructions, that go through some domain specific state transitions. > It is not enormous, but a state transition model helps to understand > what valid transitions there are. As a simplistic example, when we > receive an investment instruction, one user "submits" the instruction, > another "authorises". From there it moves into a processing state and > then complete when the investment is placed. > > What will be nice is to set up guards on transitions, entry / exit > actions and more nice things that can be done with a state machine. > Reading the state machine then gives a nice overview of the logic. > What will be nice is to see that in the form of a graph, with all the > annotations. > We do not currently use complexities like concurrency and nesting, but > have seen that working before. > > Does this answer what you're asking? Yes, I think I understand, including the need for a graphical representation. I'm interested in finding opportunities for automata as a way to compute (and synthesize hardware). I've seen very interesting results with synthesis of automata co-processors on FPGAs (and the Micron Automata processor as well). I suggested an internship in my lab, and it was bumped up to a possible post-doc opportunity. But I'm more into expressing them as a RE / as a Grammar than explicitely... studying a way to convert between the different representations could be interesting. Thierry

Oct. 18, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] CodeGenerator, your opinions?

by phil＠highoctane.be

http://www.micro-workflow.com/PDF/wecfo.pdf seemed interesting. Not state machines per se but still. Longer paper here: http://micro-workflow.com/PDF/phdthesis.pdf Phil On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 8:47 PM, Bernardo Ezequiel Contreras < vonbecmann(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Implementing State Machines in Smalltalk (1993) Trevor Hopkins > http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.31.6732 > > - A state machine generator (based in the excellent paper of Trevor P. >> Hopkins) >> >> > i add it to my reading list. thanks > > > -- > Bernardo E.C. > > Sent from a cheap desktop computer in South America. >

Oct. 18, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] CodeGenerator, your opinions?

by Bernardo Ezequiel Contreras

Implementing State Machines in Smalltalk (1993) Trevor Hopkins http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.31.6732 - A state machine generator (based in the excellent paper of Trevor P. > Hopkins) > > i add it to my reading list. thanks -- Bernardo E.C. Sent from a cheap desktop computer in South America.

Oct. 18, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] CodeGenerator, your opinions?

by Lionel Akue

Sure I will look and let you know. Lionel Le 18 oct. 2016 18:07, "HernÃ¡n Morales Durand" <hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> a Ã©crit : > > 2016-10-18 9:35 GMT-03:00 Lionel Akue <lionelakue(a)gmail.com>: > >> Great! >> >> We had the same idea :) >> >> > Let me know if we can join forces to speed uo things. > > >> The first requirements I wrote was to generate Spec UI directly. But I >> rather chose to make Magritte compatible with Spec. >> >> So from the Magritte description, we could generate Spec, Seaside ... >> >> > The CodeGenerator I wrote already generates Magritte code. If you load it > in Pharo 5 > > Gofer it > smalltalkhubUser: 'hernan' project: 'CodeGenerator'; > configuration; > loadDevelopment. > > Have a look at the usage examples: > > #exampleMagritteDescriptionCreation1 > #exampleMagritteDescriptionCreation2 > #exampleMagritteDescriptionCreation3 > > If you have suggestions I would like to read. > > HernÃ¡n > > >> Lionel >> >> 2016-10-18 14:20 GMT+02:00 Peter Uhnak <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com>: >> >>> Hi Hernan, >>> >>> I wrote some time ago two basic code generators (both in Pharo) from >>> UML-ified FAMIX for a particular user (so there are some domain-specific >>> patterns), >>> one for Pharo syntax ( https://github.com/OpenPonk/cl >>> ass-editor/blob/master/docs/code-generation/uml-to-code.md ) >>> and one for VW syntax ( https://github.com/OpenPonk/cl >>> ass-editor/blob/master/docs/vw-code-generation/pim-psm.md ) >>> >>> (the code is here https://github.com/OpenPonk/cl >>> ass-editor/tree/master/repository/DynaCASE-Generator.package and here >>> https://github.com/OpenPonk/class-editor/tree/master/reposit >>> ory/UML-CodeGenerator.package ) >>> >>> The most pain I had was with expressing templateable code to which I >>> could just plug specific data, I wanted to look at QVT but didn't have the >>> time yet. >>> But it would be interesting to see if your generator could address such >>> issues; plus soon I want to iterate on my generators to have more live >>> interaction (so the code is generated on the fly as the model is created, >>> although I am using Pharo Refactoring engine for now, which is also quite >>> powerful.) >>> >>> Addionally, Lionel (in cc) is working on some meta system generating >>> classes with magritte descriptions. >>> >>> So it would be cool if we could have some really cool generator that >>> could do many cool things. :) >>> >>> Peter >>> >>> On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 02:24:28AM -0300, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand wrote: >>> > Hi guys, >>> > >>> > I am writing a code generator, doing a few iterations right now. >>> > I want your opinion, which most useful thing would you like to be >>> generated >>> > automatically? It could be a pattern, an idiom, another language... >>> > >>> > For example my own wish (roadmap) list: >>> > >>> > - A "settings framework" settings class generator. >>> > - A state machine generator (based in the excellent paper of Trevor P. >>> > Hopkins) >>> > - A Spec UI generator. >>> > >>> > Let me know your thoughts. >>> > >>> > Cheers, >>> > >>> > HernÃ¡n >>> >> >> >

Oct. 18, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] CodeGenerator, your opinions?

by phil＠highoctane.be

They are useful for writing VM plugins for example. The generic part. On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 6:53 PM, Todd Blanchard <tblanchard(a)mac.com> wrote: > My personal feeling on code generators is they are a bad code smell and > the desire to use them tends to imply that your programming language isn't > dynamic enough. > > That said I have used DNE on proto object proxies to capture messages sent > and generate handlers (I have used this on Morphic to try to figure out > what methods actually get called vs the ones that don't). > > I have also used this sort of thing to build a model that matches a > database schema. > > But I wouldn't typically make code generation a routine part of my > development process. > > > On Oct 17, 2016, at 22:24, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand < > hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Hi guys, > > > > I am writing a code generator, doing a few iterations right now. > > I want your opinion, which most useful thing would you like to be > generated automatically? It could be a pattern, an idiom, another > language... > > > > For example my own wish (roadmap) list: > > > > - A "settings framework" settings class generator. > > - A state machine generator (based in the excellent paper of Trevor P. > Hopkins) > > - A Spec UI generator. > > > > Let me know your thoughts. > > > > Cheers, > > > > HernÃ¡n > > > > > >

Oct. 18, 2016