January 2016 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] happy lessons from recent talks

by Dimitris Chloupis

Great work people of course constantly improving Pharo pays off and slowly and steadily our community will grow , just see how active our mailing lists have become and also with creation of Swift language and the growing popularity of Clojure the importance of live coding emerges and taken seriously this a huge chance for Pharo grow as the best live coding environment. On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 at 17:47, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > +1 > > Le 11/1/16 14:12, Alexandre Bergel a Ã©crit : > > Hi Doru, > > Thanks for your email. Indeed, it is great that you share your experience! > > Cheers, > Alexandre > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > On Jan 11, 2016, at 6:47 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > I just wanted to share with you a bit of a different perspective on what > we do around here. > > Over the past half a year I gave several talks to some 1k technical people > at industrial events like ArchConf, NDC Oslo and several others. The tour > will continue this year at OOP, ArchConf and a couple of other places. > These are places where people talk about mainstream techniques & > technologies (like Java, JS, C#). For example, ArchConf is a premier > software architecture conference in the US. > > During these sessions, people get to experience Moose and Pharo through > live demos. I use these demos as examples of how humane assessment > (building your own analysis tools) can boost engineering decisions making > in practice. > > I consistently receive the feedback that the live programming > possibilities from Pharo/Moose are impressive. But, more recently, there is > something else worthy of being noted. If in previous years, nobody heard > about what we do, this year I started to get consistently a couple of > persons in the room that have heard something about Pharo/Moose before the > presentation. > > This is huge. While a couple might not sound like much, you should > remember that information (especially in this technical space) has the > capability of spreading exponentially. What we have done over the past > years starts to show results. We have to keep it up. > > Happy New Year! > > Cheers, > Doru > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "Problem solving should be focused on describing > the problem in a way that makes the solution obvious." > > > > > > > > >

Jan. 11, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] happy lessons from recent talks

by stepharo

+1 Le 11/1/16 14:12, Alexandre Bergel a Ã©crit : > Hi Doru, > > Thanks for your email. Indeed, it is great that you share your experience! > > Cheers, > Alexandre > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > >> On Jan 11, 2016, at 6:47 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com >> <mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com>> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> I just wanted to share with you a bit of a different perspective on >> what we do around here. >> >> Over the past half a year I gave several talks to some 1k technical >> people at industrial events like ArchConf, NDC Oslo and several >> others. The tour will continue this year at OOP, ArchConf and a >> couple of other places. These are places where people talk about >> mainstream techniques & technologies (like Java, JS, C#). For >> example, ArchConf is a premier software architecture conference in >> the US. >> >> During these sessions, people get to experience Moose and Pharo >> through live demos. I use these demos as examples of how humane >> assessment (building your own analysis tools) can boost engineering >> decisions making in practice. >> >> I consistently receive the feedback that the live programming >> possibilities from Pharo/Moose are impressive. But, more recently, >> there is something else worthy of being noted. If in previous years, >> nobody heard about what we do, this year I started to get >> consistently a couple of persons in the room that have heard >> something about Pharo/Moose before the presentation. >> >> This is huge. While a couple might not sound like much, you should >> remember that information (especially in this technical space) has >> the capability of spreading exponentially. What we have done over the >> past years starts to show results. We have to keep it up. >> >> Happy New Year! >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com> >> www.feenk.com >> >> "Problem solving should be focused on describing >> the problem in a way that makes the solution obvious." >> >> >> >> >> >> >

Jan. 11, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] I am David Allouche, let me introduce myself.

by stepharo

Welcome :) Did you look at Seaside? Since you should be able to read french there is a nice tutorial: tinyBlog. In two days you can build a small web app with a mongo back end. Stef Le 10/1/16 22:37, David Allouche a Ã©crit : > Hello folks. > > Some people have already seen me on Twitter and Slack, but I believe > there might be some people on the mailing list that did not see those > conversations. > > As I have done on Slack, I am writing this introduction so people have > an idea where I come from and what is my business with Pharo. > > I am a professional programmer. My current job is tech on a small > company I run with two associates (by the way, we are hiring a good > Python web dev with a passion for good code). The product is a SaaS > web application for recruiters. They call that an Application Tracking > System, it is a workflow, communication and archival system for job > applications and candidates. > > I started programming 25 years ago with HyperCard, and since I have at > least played with Pascal, C, Prograph, asm68k, HP-48 (RPL, Saturn > asm), Java, bash, C++, LaTeX, XSLT, Delphi, Scheme, elisp, JavaScript. > > I have contributed to GNU TeXmacs where I made important contributinos > during about 2 years, as I completed by training as an software > engineer, and worked at CNRS in Rennes. Then I got involved in GNU > Arch (wrote a Python driver), Bazaar (bzr scm) where I worked with the > founding team at Canonical while working on the version control aspect > of launchpad.net <http://launchpad.net>. After that, I had mostly no > contribution to free software, working on financial modeling at a bank > and then on my current business. I made a presentation on SQLAlchemy > at PyCon.fr <http://pycon.fr> 2015. > > I am a fan Design Patterns (GoF) and the Refactoring book. My mentor > at Canonical (Robert Collins) is heavily influenced by Smalltalk and > championed XP there. I always had strong interests in software systems > design, programming language design, typography, and user interface > design. I feel strongly for the concept of software craftsmanship. > > My current job is nice, good pay, lots of independence ; after 6 years > working on the same project, I need some fresh intellectual > stimulation. And I was recently impressed by the presentation "Nothing > is Something", by Sandi Metz, who is heavily influenced by Smalltalk. > > http://confreaks.tv/videos/bathruby2015-nothing-is-something > > So, I here I came, bumbling my way around the system, looking for > intellectual stimulation, and for a way to make a positive contribution. > > I was very impressed by the nice welcome I have received. And I see > there is lots of useful work to do here. > > So that's where I come from when you see me chipping in the > conversation here. > > Regards.

Jan. 11, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo Docs website broken

by stepharo

We should keep PBE and add another link. Stef Le 11/1/16 10:45, Tudor Girba a Ã©crit : > I think that UPBE is in definitely a better state than PBE. We should switch the link. > > @Dimitris: Could you open an issue for this? > > Doru > > >> On Jan 11, 2016, at 11:37 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >> >> >>> On 11 Jan 2016, at 10:24, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> I agree with you only 100% + 1. >>> >>> Also note that UPBE is not promoted even though its the most begineer friendly documentation we have, instead you have to navigate through the links to get there. >> There is books.pharo.org >> >> PBE is there, I thought UPBE was not yet ready, if it is, it should **definitively** be promoted there and on pharo.org in general. >> >> Please push this, this is really important. >> >>> AFAIK the documentation page could use some love, promoting our main Book, UPBE, Pharo for the Enterprise , Deep Into Pharo. Those 3 are essential reading for anyone coming to pharo and they are in a pretty good state , though WIP. >>> >>> I have to say that I never liked Pharo docs because it shows how few classes contain comments and it definitely does not look good for someone looking to enter pharo. >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 1:48 AM David Allouche <david(a)allouche.net> wrote: >>> I could argue about how I agree with you, but only in part. >>> >>> But the simple fact is this: the documentation is advertised in large letter on this page: http://pharo.org/documentation >>> >>> If it's broken, it should be fixed. If the people with the technical access to fix it do not care, it should be removed from such a highly visible page. >>> >>> As it is, it is confusing for new users, who need it most, and reflects badly on the state of Pharo in general. >>> >>>> On 10 Jan 2016, at 22:25, Serge Stinckwich <serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear David, >>>> >>>> yes this maybe broken, but most of the time, a Pharo developer will >>>> never have a look to such a static documentation. >>>> You can browse the class and the related methods very easily inside >>>> the Pharo image, without relying on an external tool. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 1:08 PM, David Allouche <david(a)allouche.net> wrote: >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> It seems the pharodocs website is broken. Pages for classes are rendered, >>>>> but the documentation does not display the messages, only their docstrings. >>>>> That makes it quite unusable. >>>>> >>>>> http://files.pharo.org/doc/4.0/#packageList=package.html&classList=package/… >>>>> >>>>> I remember I looked at it once when I started and thought "whee, that's >>>>> confusing, I'll play around and come back later". Now I understand why that >>>>> was confusing... >>>>> >>>>> Who can fix that? >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Serge Stinckwich >>>> UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) >>>> Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk >>>> http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/ >>>> >>> >> > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "To utilize feedback, you first have to acquire it." > > >

Jan. 11, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] I am David Allouche, let me introduce myself.

by Ben Coman

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 5:37 AM, David Allouche <david(a)allouche.net> wrote: > Hello folks. > > Some people have already seen me on Twitter and Slack, but I believe there > might be some people on the mailing list that did not see those > conversations. > > As I have done on Slack, I am writing this introduction so people have an > idea where I come from and what is my business with Pharo. > > I am a professional programmer. My current job is tech on a small company I > run with two associates (by the way, we are hiring a good Python web dev > with a passion for good code). The product is a SaaS web application for > recruiters. They call that an Application Tracking System, it is a workflow, > communication and archival system for job applications and candidates. > > I started programming 25 years ago with HyperCard, and since I have at least > played with Pascal, C, Prograph, asm68k, HP-48 (RPL, Saturn asm), Java, > bash, C++, LaTeX, XSLT, Delphi, Scheme, elisp, JavaScript. > > I have contributed to GNU TeXmacs where I made important contributinos > during about 2 years, as I completed by training as an software engineer, > and worked at CNRS in Rennes. Then I got involved in GNU Arch (wrote a > Python driver), Bazaar (bzr scm) where I worked with the founding team at > Canonical while working on the version control aspect of launchpad.net. > After that, I had mostly no contribution to free software, working on > financial modeling at a bank and then on my current business. I made a > presentation on SQLAlchemy at PyCon.fr 2015. > > I am a fan Design Patterns (GoF) and the Refactoring book. Have you seen "The Design Patterns Smalltalk Companion" https://books.google.com.au/books/about/The_Design_Patterns_Smalltalk_Compa… It might help segue your experience into Pharo. and also "Smalltalk Best Practice Patterns" http://www.amazon.com/Smalltalk-Best-Practice-Patterns-Kent/dp/013476904X > My mentor at > Canonical (Robert Collins) is heavily influenced by Smalltalk and championed > XP there. I always had strong interests in software systems design, > programming language design, typography, and user interface design. I feel > strongly for the concept of software craftsmanship. > > My current job is nice, good pay, lots of independence ; after 6 years > working on the same project, I need some fresh intellectual stimulation. And > I was recently impressed by the presentation "Nothing is Something", by > Sandi Metz, who is heavily influenced by Smalltalk. > > http://confreaks.tv/videos/bathruby2015-nothing-is-something Wow, a great endorsement of Smalltalk from an insider of another community. You'll find similar enlightenment with "A Mentoring Course on Smalltalk" http://www.lulu.com/shop/andres-valloud/a-mentoring-course-on-smalltalk-pdf… > So, I here I came, bumbling my way around the system, looking for > intellectual stimulation, and for a way to make a positive contribution. Pharo is great for this. I don't currently develop software for a living. Earlier I was a systems administrator (including for software developers), and lately an electrical power engineer (https://au.linkedin.com/in/bencoman) But while some people like doing crosswords... I *love* programming, and Pharo is a joy to use. I've been surprised a few times when peeking under the covers how its possible to follow, understand and change the depths of the system. You can really feel you make an impact. I can't remember who famous said something like "The only languages worth learning are the ones that changes the way you think about programming..." and I found that with Smalltalk & Pharo. > I was very impressed by the nice welcome I have received. And I see there is > lots of useful work to do here. Some drive-by newcomers that generically complain "why doesn't my new tool (Pharo) work just like all the other conventional tools" do get short shrift. Such arguments follow a common pattern when we believe our differences are our advantage, so this keeps the noise down in the mail list. That said, we don't want to be insular, so fresh eyes providing *constructive* criticism are welcome. Come with an open mind, review and contribute code and you'll be very welcome. A good way to get your hands dirty is to review fixes submitted by others... https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?pgx=LF&ixFilter=45 There are never enough hands there :) (my own action here fluctuates from time to time) I learnt a lot of the system from reviewing other people's fixes, by using PharoLauncher to easily start two Images running side by side. In first image, I stop a <merge> of an issue's Slice half way through so the methods being changed are listed, then drop a #halt into some of those to trace the existing issue. In the second image I complete the same <merge> and drop a #halt into the same methods, and debug each image in lock step to see where code path differs. > So that's where I come from when you see me chipping in the conversation > here. Glad to have you on board. cheers -ben

Jan. 11, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo Docs website broken

by Dimitris Chloupis

Personally I would prefer if Esteban kept working on documenting the new FFI. Thats a top priority doc wise, the rest can wait. Î£ÏÎ¹Ï ÎÎµÏ, 11 ÎÎ±Î½ 2016 - 15:57 Î¿ ÏÏÎ®ÏÏÎ·Ï Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> ÎÎ³ÏÎ±ÏÎµ: > > I better understand the reason for existence of pharodocs, thanks! I also > understand that you want to keep it. > > BUT: please keep in mind that having bad documentation is actually worse > than not having any documentation at all. So ideally you would regenerate > the site tonight before you go to sleep. :-) > > > On Jan 11, 2016, at 10:41, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > wellâ¦ maintenance is (usually) just run the generation process. > Some months ago Guille made a simplified version and I was thinking on > just load it and execute itâ¦ they go to sleep :) > > the reasons for pharodocs to be there are not so important and nothing > will change a lot if removed. But I would keep it anyway, if possible. > > Esteban > > On 11 Jan 2016, at 14:37, Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: > > I never used Pharodoc, I donât really see the point. And apparently I am > not alone. So, I have a provocative question: why donât you just remove it? > > It is broken now and it will take energy to fix, and this energy can be > much better spent elsewhere. Plus it will take maintenance time and energy > at some point in the future, it is probable that it will break again at > some point, since the www behaves like this. Just get rid of this burden. > > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- > > Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry > PLEIAD and RyCh labs - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University > of Chile >

Jan. 11, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo Docs website broken

by Johan Fabry

I better understand the reason for existence of pharodocs, thanks! I also understand that you want to keep it. BUT: please keep in mind that having bad documentation is actually worse than not having any documentation at all. So ideally you would regenerate the site tonight before you go to sleep. :-) > On Jan 11, 2016, at 10:41, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > wellâ¦ maintenance is (usually) just run the generation process. > Some months ago Guille made a simplified version and I was thinking on just load it and execute itâ¦ they go to sleep :) > > the reasons for pharodocs to be there are not so important and nothing will change a lot if removed. But I would keep it anyway, if possible. > > Esteban > >> On 11 Jan 2016, at 14:37, Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl <mailto:jfabry@dcc.uchile.cl>> wrote: >> >> I never used Pharodoc, I donât really see the point. And apparently I am not alone. So, I have a provocative question: why donât you just remove it? >> >> It is broken now and it will take energy to fix, and this energy can be much better spent elsewhere. Plus it will take maintenance time and energy at some point in the future, it is probable that it will break again at some point, since the www behaves like this. Just get rid of this burden. ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD and RyCh labs - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Jan. 11, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo Docs website broken

by Dimitris Chloupis

I was wondering if github interface could help here to make it much more powerful On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 3:43 PM Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > wellâ¦ maintenance is (usually) just run the generation process. > Some months ago Guille made a simplified version and I was thinking on > just load it and execute itâ¦ they go to sleep :) > > the reasons for pharodocs to be there are not so important and nothing > will change a lot if removed. But I would keep it anyway, if possible. > > Esteban > > On 11 Jan 2016, at 14:37, Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: > > I never used Pharodoc, I donât really see the point. And apparently I am > not alone. So, I have a provocative question: why donât you just remove it? > > It is broken now and it will take energy to fix, and this energy can be > much better spent elsewhere. Plus it will take maintenance time and energy > at some point in the future, it is probable that it will break again at > some point, since the www behaves like this. Just get rid of this burden. > > On Jan 11, 2016, at 10:28, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > yeah i can confirm that as well, but i never tried to resize the panels > before, but frankly its not a huge deal, phardoc does not offer anything > more than what the pharo image already offers and is many times less > flexible. I used only once when i was on vacations and wanted to take a > look at a couple of things. > > On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 3:19 PM David Allouche <david(a)allouche.net> wrote: > >> Yes, that's what I talked about in the first place. >> >> Here's the screenshot I should have included at first. See, no method >> names. >> >> <PastedGraphic-1.png> >> >> >> Also, if one tries resizing the panes, things start breaking in visually >> interesting waysâ¦ >> >> >> <PastedGraphic-2.png> >> >> > > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- > > Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry > PLEIAD and RyCh labs - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University > of Chile > >

Jan. 11, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo Docs website broken

by Esteban Lorenzano

wellâ¦ maintenance is (usually) just run the generation process. Some months ago Guille made a simplified version and I was thinking on just load it and execute itâ¦ they go to sleep :) the reasons for pharodocs to be there are not so important and nothing will change a lot if removed. But I would keep it anyway, if possible. Esteban > On 11 Jan 2016, at 14:37, Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: > > I never used Pharodoc, I donât really see the point. And apparently I am not alone. So, I have a provocative question: why donât you just remove it? > > It is broken now and it will take energy to fix, and this energy can be much better spent elsewhere. Plus it will take maintenance time and energy at some point in the future, it is probable that it will break again at some point, since the www behaves like this. Just get rid of this burden. > >> On Jan 11, 2016, at 10:28, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com <mailto:kilon.alios@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> yeah i can confirm that as well, but i never tried to resize the panels before, but frankly its not a huge deal, phardoc does not offer anything more than what the pharo image already offers and is many times less flexible. I used only once when i was on vacations and wanted to take a look at a couple of things. >> >> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 3:19 PM David Allouche <david(a)allouche.net <mailto:david@allouche.net>> wrote: >> Yes, that's what I talked about in the first place. >> >> Here's the screenshot I should have included at first. See, no method names. >> >> <PastedGraphic-1.png> >> >> >> Also, if one tries resizing the panes, things start breaking in visually interesting waysâ¦ >> >> >> <PastedGraphic-2.png> >> > > > > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <http://emailcharter.org/> <--- > > Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry <http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry> > PLEIAD and RyCh labs - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Jan. 11, 2016

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo Docs website broken

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

The point is visibility towards web users and robots. It also contains quite a bit of technology, it would be a shame to lose it. But yes, of course, real Pharo programmers will never use it, in-image browsing is so much better. Maybe a more down to earth, simpler version would be better. > On 11 Jan 2016, at 14:37, Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: > > I never used Pharodoc, I donât really see the point. And apparently I am not alone. So, I have a provocative question: why donât you just remove it? > > It is broken now and it will take energy to fix, and this energy can be much better spent elsewhere. Plus it will take maintenance time and energy at some point in the future, it is probable that it will break again at some point, since the www behaves like this. Just get rid of this burden. > >> On Jan 11, 2016, at 10:28, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> yeah i can confirm that as well, but i never tried to resize the panels before, but frankly its not a huge deal, phardoc does not offer anything more than what the pharo image already offers and is many times less flexible. I used only once when i was on vacations and wanted to take a look at a couple of things. >> >> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 3:19 PM David Allouche <david(a)allouche.net> wrote: >> Yes, that's what I talked about in the first place. >> >> Here's the screenshot I should have included at first. See, no method names. >> >> <PastedGraphic-1.png> >> >> >> Also, if one tries resizing the panes, things start breaking in visually interesting waysâ¦ >> >> >> <PastedGraphic-2.png> >> > > > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- > > Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry > PLEIAD and RyCh labs - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile >

Jan. 11, 2016