August 2015 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 4.0 -- Inspecting a recursive data structure is slow

by Nicolai Hess

No this doesn't even fully work for the GTInspector (even not in Pharo 5.0). It is the same issue Ben discovered when working with the pointer explorer. (http://forum.world.st/Proposal-for-LiteralArray-class-tp4803015.html and http://forum.world.st/Fwd-14827-ProtoObject-pointersTo-failing-circular-ref… ) The problem is that arrays printOn: does not check for already visited objects (squeak does this, but the implementation in pharo changed). For example, in Pharo 50 | myDict | myDict := Dictionary new. myDict at: #hello put: 'hello'. myDict at: #recurHello put: myDict. myDict inspect you can open the inspector, but selecting the first element in the "keys" tab makes the image unresponsive. The same happens if you select the #array instvar in the "raw" tab. 2015-08-29 15:16 GMT+02:00 H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel(a)gmail.com>: > As for me no need to hurry. I switch now to Pharo 5 build 50287 in the > meantime. I will continue using that if I do not run into larger > problems. > > --Hannes > > On 8/29/15, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > > >> On 29 Aug 2015, at 12:58, Andrei Chis <chisvasileandrei(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > >> Was there an issue/fix for this in Pharo 5? > >> It might be worth backporting to Pharo 4. > >> > > Maybe one related to what is printed for the dictionary. > > It used to be very slow for large collections > > > > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15311/The-display-string-for-collection-m… > > > >

Aug. 29, 2015

About videos, youtube and our future mooc

by stepharo

Hi guys 1 Pharo Starter Kit ---------------- We started to work on a Pharo Starter Kit distribution (to be announced soon) containing - all our new lecture support (revisited lectures) - the books - vm/images - videos - ... All the material will be used for the Pharo Mooc we are working on http://sdmeta.gforge.inria.fr/StarterKitCache/ Point 1: If you have suggestions please let us know. YouTube Collection ---------------- I also started to collect youtube videos to put on the starter kit. You can find a first collection at http://sdmeta.gforge.inria.fr/Videos/YouTubeVideos/ If you know a cool video that you think should be added to this collection let me know. 3 Future nice videos ----------------- Now for the Mooc we would like to have a special ressources where each week we let the students watch cool videos on cool external projects. - We will propose a kind of template such as 3 min max, a title, email, project If you have idea start to think about it. Stef

Aug. 29, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 4.0 -- Inspecting a recursive data structure is slow

by H. Hirzel

As for me no need to hurry. I switch now to Pharo 5 build 50287 in the meantime. I will continue using that if I do not run into larger problems. --Hannes On 8/29/15, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >> On 29 Aug 2015, at 12:58, Andrei Chis <chisvasileandrei(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Was there an issue/fix for this in Pharo 5? >> It might be worth backporting to Pharo 4. >> > Maybe one related to what is printed for the dictionary. > It used to be very slow for large collections > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15311/The-display-string-for-collection-m… >

Aug. 29, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 4.0 -- Inspecting a recursive data structure is slow

by Marcus Denker

> On 29 Aug 2015, at 12:58, Andrei Chis <chisvasileandrei(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Was there an issue/fix for this in Pharo 5? > It might be worth backporting to Pharo 4. > Maybe one related to what is printed for the dictionary. It used to be very slow for large collections https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15311/The-display-string-for-collection-m…

Aug. 29, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 4.0 -- Inspecting a recursive data structure is slow

by Marcus Denker

> On 29 Aug 2015, at 13:27, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 8/29/15, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> It seems to be fixed in Pharo5 already. Debugger comes up within less than a >> second and is usable. > > Very welcome. > I assume you mean 'Inspector' (not debugger) > Yes. Marcus

Aug. 29, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 4.0 -- Inspecting a recursive data structure is slow

by H. Hirzel

On 8/29/15, Andrei Chis <chisvasileandrei(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Was there an issue/fix for this in Pharo 5? > It might be worth backporting to Pharo 4. If it is not a big effort, yes please. > > On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 12:06 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> > wrote: > >> It seems to be fixed in Pharo5 already. Debugger comes up within less >> than >> a second and is usable. >> >> Marcus >> > On 29 Aug 2015, at 11:57, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > Andrei, >> > >> > Thanks for confirming the bug. >> > >> > Report is here >> > >> > >> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/16425/Pharo-4-0-Inspecting-a-recursive-da… >> > >> > --Hannes >> > >> > On 8/29/15, Andrei Chis <chisvasileandrei(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi Hannes, >> >> >> >> Can open a bug report? >> >> I though most recursive problems were fixed in the new inspector. >> >> Seems that there are still some related to printing recursive >> structures. >> >> >> >> You can switch to the previous inspector (GTInspector >> >> setGTInspectorEnabledStatus: false), >> >> however, this bug seem to also kill that inspector. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Andrei >> >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 7:16 AM, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Hello >> >>> >> >>> I have realized that inspecting a recursive data structure is very >> >>> slow in Pharo 4.0 >> >>> >> >>> A test case: >> >>> >> >>> | myDict | >> >>> myDict := Dictionary new. >> >>> myDict at: #hello put: 'hello'. >> >>> myDict at: #recurHello put: myDict. >> >>> myDict inspect >> >>> >> >>> It takes a long time for the inspector to come up. And the image >> >>> freezes later on if you continue. >> >>> >> >>> The problem is with the inspector because if I do >> >>> | myDict | >> >>> myDict := Dictionary new. >> >>> myDict at: #hello put: 'hello'. >> >>> myDict at: #recurHello put: myDict. >> >>> 3 + 4 inspect >> >>> >> >>> it comes up instantly. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> As a comparison I attach the Cuis ** test result. The inspector comes >> >>> up instantly and the image does not have any problems. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> What are the workarounds in Pharo 4.0? >> >>> >> >>> - Setting a time out somewhere? >> >>> - Disabling certain functions? >> >>> - Loading a simpler inspector? >> >>> >> >>> Regards >> >>> >> >>> Hannes >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> ** current build 2463.image >> >>> https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/Cuis-Smalltalk-Dev >> >>> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >

Aug. 29, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 4.0 -- Inspecting a recursive data structure is slow

by H. Hirzel

On 8/29/15, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > It seems to be fixed in Pharo5 already. Debugger comes up within less than a > second and is usable. Very welcome. I assume you mean 'Inspector' (not debugger) > > Marcus >> On 29 Aug 2015, at 11:57, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Andrei, >> >> Thanks for confirming the bug. >> >> Report is here >> >> >> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/16425/Pharo-4-0-Inspecting-a-recursive-da… >> >> --Hannes >> >> On 8/29/15, Andrei Chis <chisvasileandrei(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> Hi Hannes, >>> >>> Can open a bug report? >>> I though most recursive problems were fixed in the new inspector. >>> Seems that there are still some related to printing recursive >>> structures. >>> >>> You can switch to the previous inspector (GTInspector >>> setGTInspectorEnabledStatus: false), >>> however, this bug seem to also kill that inspector. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Andrei >>> >>> On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 7:16 AM, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel(a)gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello >>>> >>>> I have realized that inspecting a recursive data structure is very >>>> slow in Pharo 4.0 >>>> >>>> A test case: >>>> >>>> | myDict | >>>> myDict := Dictionary new. >>>> myDict at: #hello put: 'hello'. >>>> myDict at: #recurHello put: myDict. >>>> myDict inspect >>>> >>>> It takes a long time for the inspector to come up. And the image >>>> freezes later on if you continue. >>>> >>>> The problem is with the inspector because if I do >>>> | myDict | >>>> myDict := Dictionary new. >>>> myDict at: #hello put: 'hello'. >>>> myDict at: #recurHello put: myDict. >>>> 3 + 4 inspect >>>> >>>> it comes up instantly. >>>> >>>> >>>> As a comparison I attach the Cuis ** test result. The inspector comes >>>> up instantly and the image does not have any problems. >>>> >>>> >>>> What are the workarounds in Pharo 4.0? >>>> >>>> - Setting a time out somewhere? >>>> - Disabling certain functions? >>>> - Loading a simpler inspector? >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Hannes >>>> >>>> >>>> ** current build 2463.image >>>> https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/Cuis-Smalltalk-Dev >>>> >>> >> > > >

Aug. 29, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Becoming good at VM development

by Ben Coman

Join vm-dev mail list http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/vm-dev Intro... http://ftp.squeak.org/docs/OOPSLA.Squeak.html http://design.cs.iastate.edu/vmil/2011/papers/p03-miranda.pdf Not sure if these are too outdated... https://marcusdenker.de/talks/05ChileDCC/DCC01JITAndCo.pdf http://scg.unibe.ch/archive/papers/Haup07aPIC.pdf On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 4:53 PM, Christophe Demarey <Christophe.Demarey(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Hi > > Le 28 aoÃ»t 2015 Ã 10:11, Ichiseki a Ã©crit : > >> Hi >> hello to everyone & everybody >> I am interesting in going deeply into VM design, development, optimization, >> etc. I know a lot of Haskell, a good amount of C and some languages that use >> VM like Python, Lua and Pharo of course. >> What would be a road map (books, articles, code to read) to understand >> deeply and in detail the Pharo VM, the inter operation between the VM and >> the image. I know this could take a lot of time but I'm committed to invest >> that time. >> Please help me as literature on these topics is very scarce... >> Thank SO SO much in advacne >> ichiro > > There are some nice blogs: > http://www.mirandabanda.org/cogblog/ > https://clementbera.wordpress.com/ (cog/spur/sista categories)

Aug. 29, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 4.0 -- Inspecting a recursive data structure is slow

by Andrei Chis

Was there an issue/fix for this in Pharo 5? It might be worth backporting to Pharo 4. On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 12:06 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > It seems to be fixed in Pharo5 already. Debugger comes up within less than > a second and is usable. > > Marcus > > On 29 Aug 2015, at 11:57, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Andrei, > > > > Thanks for confirming the bug. > > > > Report is here > > > > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/16425/Pharo-4-0-Inspecting-a-recursive-da… > > > > --Hannes > > > > On 8/29/15, Andrei Chis <chisvasileandrei(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Hannes, > >> > >> Can open a bug report? > >> I though most recursive problems were fixed in the new inspector. > >> Seems that there are still some related to printing recursive > structures. > >> > >> You can switch to the previous inspector (GTInspector > >> setGTInspectorEnabledStatus: false), > >> however, this bug seem to also kill that inspector. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Andrei > >> > >> On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 7:16 AM, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > >>> Hello > >>> > >>> I have realized that inspecting a recursive data structure is very > >>> slow in Pharo 4.0 > >>> > >>> A test case: > >>> > >>> | myDict | > >>> myDict := Dictionary new. > >>> myDict at: #hello put: 'hello'. > >>> myDict at: #recurHello put: myDict. > >>> myDict inspect > >>> > >>> It takes a long time for the inspector to come up. And the image > >>> freezes later on if you continue. > >>> > >>> The problem is with the inspector because if I do > >>> | myDict | > >>> myDict := Dictionary new. > >>> myDict at: #hello put: 'hello'. > >>> myDict at: #recurHello put: myDict. > >>> 3 + 4 inspect > >>> > >>> it comes up instantly. > >>> > >>> > >>> As a comparison I attach the Cuis ** test result. The inspector comes > >>> up instantly and the image does not have any problems. > >>> > >>> > >>> What are the workarounds in Pharo 4.0? > >>> > >>> - Setting a time out somewhere? > >>> - Disabling certain functions? > >>> - Loading a simpler inspector? > >>> > >>> Regards > >>> > >>> Hannes > >>> > >>> > >>> ** current build 2463.image > >>> https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/Cuis-Smalltalk-Dev > >>> > >> > > > > >

Aug. 29, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 4.0 -- Inspecting a recursive data structure is slow

by Marcus Denker

It seems to be fixed in Pharo5 already. Debugger comes up within less than a second and is usable. Marcus > On 29 Aug 2015, at 11:57, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Andrei, > > Thanks for confirming the bug. > > Report is here > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/16425/Pharo-4-0-Inspecting-a-recursive-da… > > --Hannes > > On 8/29/15, Andrei Chis <chisvasileandrei(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi Hannes, >> >> Can open a bug report? >> I though most recursive problems were fixed in the new inspector. >> Seems that there are still some related to printing recursive structures. >> >> You can switch to the previous inspector (GTInspector >> setGTInspectorEnabledStatus: false), >> however, this bug seem to also kill that inspector. >> >> Cheers, >> Andrei >> >> On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 7:16 AM, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hello >>> >>> I have realized that inspecting a recursive data structure is very >>> slow in Pharo 4.0 >>> >>> A test case: >>> >>> | myDict | >>> myDict := Dictionary new. >>> myDict at: #hello put: 'hello'. >>> myDict at: #recurHello put: myDict. >>> myDict inspect >>> >>> It takes a long time for the inspector to come up. And the image >>> freezes later on if you continue. >>> >>> The problem is with the inspector because if I do >>> | myDict | >>> myDict := Dictionary new. >>> myDict at: #hello put: 'hello'. >>> myDict at: #recurHello put: myDict. >>> 3 + 4 inspect >>> >>> it comes up instantly. >>> >>> >>> As a comparison I attach the Cuis ** test result. The inspector comes >>> up instantly and the image does not have any problems. >>> >>> >>> What are the workarounds in Pharo 4.0? >>> >>> - Setting a time out somewhere? >>> - Disabling certain functions? >>> - Loading a simpler inspector? >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Hannes >>> >>> >>> ** current build 2463.image >>> https://github.com/Cuis-Smalltalk/Cuis-Smalltalk-Dev >>> >> >

Aug. 29, 2015