July 2015 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Linux Install -- problems, but eventually successful

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Hi, Note also that from Pharo website you can get to: http://pharo.org/gnu-linux-installation#64-bit-System-Setup You get there from http://pharo.org/download (where it says "*GNU/Linux virtual machine - Besides the generic binary, there are pre-built VMs for systems with libc < 2.15 (e.g. Debian 7 "wheezy"), and CentOS. NB: If you're on 64-bit GNU/Linux, see our instructions to prepare your system*") Cheers, On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 1:09 PM, Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hello, > > Welcome to Pharo and the Pharo community. Smalltalk/Pharo are > exceptionally empowering tools. And getting better all the time. > > My apologies for your difficulties. I personally have not seen that page > before as I already have scripts for installing all of the requisite > libraries. This script has worked for me for years on Ubuntu or other > Debian based distros. My favorite was Crunchbang. > > I did not originate this script but believe I started with I found years > ago for either Debian or Ubuntu. I cleaned it up and added to it over time. > It installs all the necessary libraries to my knowledge. Whether or not > installs more than I need I do not know. All I do know is that after > running the script Pharo runs perfectly. > > I copied all of this from my setup-pharo.sh script. > I run this script anytime I have a fresh Linux install. > I then sudo -s and run the script. > > dpkg --add-architecture i386 > apt-get update > > apt-get --yes install cmake zip bash-completion ruby git xz-utils > debhelper devscripts > apt-get --yes install libc6-dev:i386 libasound2:i386 libasound2-dev:i386 > libasound2-plugins:i386 > apt-get --yes install libssl-dev:i386 libssl1.0.0:i386 libssh2-1:i386 > libfreetype6-dev:i386 libx11-dev:i386 libsm-dev:i386 libice-dev:i386 > apt-get --yes install build-essential gcc-multilib g++ > apt-get --yes install libgl1-mesa-dev:i386 libgl1-mesa-glx:i386 > > Hopefully this can help your experience with Pharo and/or Squeak. > > Jimmie > > > > > On 07/25/2015 09:54 AM, Shadowfirebird wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I've been having trouble getting *any* sort of Smalltalk working on >> Linux. But ultimately I got Pharo (my first choice) working on Debian >> Jessie. >> >> It wasn't terribly hard in the end, but since the instructions at >> http://pharo.org/gnu-linux-installation#64-bit-System-Setup seem to be >> out of date, I thought it might be helpful to post something in case those >> in charge of that page would like to update. Since there is no issue >> tracker, I assume this is a good a place as any. >> >> >> ## Short Version ## >> >> * sudo dpkg --add-architecture i386 >> * sudo apt-get update >> * sudo apt-get install lib32zl lib32ncurses5 >> >> Note that there is no ia32-libs package on Jessie, as far as I can tell. >> (I have no idea whether you actually need to install lib32ncurses5, but >> those were what apt-get suggested, and it worked.) >> >> I do have a startup error -- "MessageNotUnderstood: >> EmbeddedFreeTypeFontInstaller>>failedToOpen:Index:" -- but it doesn't seem >> to break anything. >> >> >> ## Longer version / Rant ## >> >> Pharo turned out to be impossible on my netbook (where I would like to >> use it, sadly) because it is still running Crunchbang, which is Debian >> Woody under the hood. So in theory the fix from the 64bit install page >> should work. It doesn't, though -- some sort of problem with #! I suppose >> >> "The following packages have unmet dependacies: >> ia32-libs: Depends: ia32-libs-i386" >> >> Squeak, as downloaded from their site, has exactly the same problem. >> >> Pharo isn't in the Debian Repository, but an old version of the Squeak VM >> -- *just* the VM -- is. (Not sure what the point of that is.) It doesn't >> work with the current Squeak image from the website. I did eventually >> manage to get a compatible image ... via FTP. Good grief. (Good enough to >> learn the ropes, I suppose.) >> >> I really didn't want to go the Gnu Smalltalk road, but in desperation I >> tried it. Under both Crunchbang and Debian Jessie, the gst-browser package >> falls over immediately when you start it, a great big error trace I won't >> bother to paste here. These are packages in the *repository*. Is no-one >> maintaining them? >> >> >> The point of this rant is to give context to the following: thank you. >> Really, thank you, to the folks behind Pharo and everyone reading this. >> >> This is the problem with FOSS: blink, and yesterday's rave technology is >> gone. And Smalltalk is *important* -- I'm not a Smalltalk programmer, but >> every time I play with it I learn so much about OOP, programming, and good >> design of classes. And I keep coming back to try to work with it again, >> because it offers things I want and just can't get elsewhere. The idea >> that Smalltalk might one day just ... not run? Not worth thinking about. >> >> >> Okay, broke a cardinal rule here. Apologies for joining a mailing list >> and then immediately posting a long rant. Going to Lurk Mode now! >> >> Shadow. >> >> >> > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

July 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Linux Install -- problems, but eventually successful

by Jimmie Houchin

Hello, Welcome to Pharo and the Pharo community. Smalltalk/Pharo are exceptionally empowering tools. And getting better all the time. My apologies for your difficulties. I personally have not seen that page before as I already have scripts for installing all of the requisite libraries. This script has worked for me for years on Ubuntu or other Debian based distros. My favorite was Crunchbang. I did not originate this script but believe I started with I found years ago for either Debian or Ubuntu. I cleaned it up and added to it over time. It installs all the necessary libraries to my knowledge. Whether or not installs more than I need I do not know. All I do know is that after running the script Pharo runs perfectly. I copied all of this from my setup-pharo.sh script. I run this script anytime I have a fresh Linux install. I then sudo -s and run the script. dpkg --add-architecture i386 apt-get update apt-get --yes install cmake zip bash-completion ruby git xz-utils debhelper devscripts apt-get --yes install libc6-dev:i386 libasound2:i386 libasound2-dev:i386 libasound2-plugins:i386 apt-get --yes install libssl-dev:i386 libssl1.0.0:i386 libssh2-1:i386 libfreetype6-dev:i386 libx11-dev:i386 libsm-dev:i386 libice-dev:i386 apt-get --yes install build-essential gcc-multilib g++ apt-get --yes install libgl1-mesa-dev:i386 libgl1-mesa-glx:i386 Hopefully this can help your experience with Pharo and/or Squeak. Jimmie On 07/25/2015 09:54 AM, Shadowfirebird wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been having trouble getting *any* sort of Smalltalk working on > Linux. But ultimately I got Pharo (my first choice) working on Debian > Jessie. > > It wasn't terribly hard in the end, but since the instructions at > http://pharo.org/gnu-linux-installation#64-bit-System-Setup seem to be > out of date, I thought it might be helpful to post something in case > those in charge of that page would like to update. Since there is no > issue tracker, I assume this is a good a place as any. > > > ## Short Version ## > > * sudo dpkg --add-architecture i386 > * sudo apt-get update > * sudo apt-get install lib32zl lib32ncurses5 > > Note that there is no ia32-libs package on Jessie, as far as I can > tell. (I have no idea whether you actually need to install > lib32ncurses5, but those were what apt-get suggested, and it worked.) > > I do have a startup error -- "MessageNotUnderstood: > EmbeddedFreeTypeFontInstaller>>failedToOpen:Index:" -- but it doesn't > seem to break anything. > > > ## Longer version / Rant ## > > Pharo turned out to be impossible on my netbook (where I would like to > use it, sadly) because it is still running Crunchbang, which is Debian > Woody under the hood. So in theory the fix from the 64bit install page > should work. It doesn't, though -- some sort of problem with #! I suppose > > "The following packages have unmet dependacies: > ia32-libs: Depends: ia32-libs-i386" > > Squeak, as downloaded from their site, has exactly the same problem. > > Pharo isn't in the Debian Repository, but an old version of the Squeak > VM -- *just* the VM -- is. (Not sure what the point of that is.) It > doesn't work with the current Squeak image from the website. I did > eventually manage to get a compatible image ... via FTP. Good grief. > (Good enough to learn the ropes, I suppose.) > > I really didn't want to go the Gnu Smalltalk road, but in desperation > I tried it. Under both Crunchbang and Debian Jessie, the gst-browser > package falls over immediately when you start it, a great big error > trace I won't bother to paste here. These are packages in the > *repository*. Is no-one maintaining them? > > > The point of this rant is to give context to the following: thank > you. Really, thank you, to the folks behind Pharo and everyone > reading this. > > This is the problem with FOSS: blink, and yesterday's rave technology > is gone. And Smalltalk is *important* -- I'm not a Smalltalk > programmer, but every time I play with it I learn so much about OOP, > programming, and good design of classes. And I keep coming back to > try to work with it again, because it offers things I want and just > can't get elsewhere. The idea that Smalltalk might one day just ... > not run? Not worth thinking about. > > > Okay, broke a cardinal rule here. Apologies for joining a mailing > list and then immediately posting a long rant. Going to Lurk Mode now! > > Shadow. > >

July 25, 2015

Linux Install -- problems, but eventually successful

by Shadowfirebird

Hi all, I've been having trouble getting *any* sort of Smalltalk working on Linux. But ultimately I got Pharo (my first choice) working on Debian Jessie. It wasn't terribly hard in the end, but since the instructions at http://pharo.org/gnu-linux-installation#64-bit-System-Setup seem to be out of date, I thought it might be helpful to post something in case those in charge of that page would like to update. Since there is no issue tracker, I assume this is a good a place as any. ## Short Version ## * sudo dpkg --add-architecture i386 * sudo apt-get update * sudo apt-get install lib32zl lib32ncurses5 Note that there is no ia32-libs package on Jessie, as far as I can tell. (I have no idea whether you actually need to install lib32ncurses5, but those were what apt-get suggested, and it worked.) I do have a startup error -- "MessageNotUnderstood: EmbeddedFreeTypeFontInstaller>>failedToOpen:Index:" -- but it doesn't seem to break anything. ## Longer version / Rant ## Pharo turned out to be impossible on my netbook (where I would like to use it, sadly) because it is still running Crunchbang, which is Debian Woody under the hood. So in theory the fix from the 64bit install page should work. It doesn't, though -- some sort of problem with #! I suppose "The following packages have unmet dependacies: ia32-libs: Depends: ia32-libs-i386" Squeak, as downloaded from their site, has exactly the same problem. Pharo isn't in the Debian Repository, but an old version of the Squeak VM -- *just* the VM -- is. (Not sure what the point of that is.) It doesn't work with the current Squeak image from the website. I did eventually manage to get a compatible image ... via FTP. Good grief. (Good enough to learn the ropes, I suppose.) I really didn't want to go the Gnu Smalltalk road, but in desperation I tried it. Under both Crunchbang and Debian Jessie, the gst-browser package falls over immediately when you start it, a great big error trace I won't bother to paste here. These are packages in the *repository*. Is no-one maintaining them? The point of this rant is to give context to the following: thank you. Really, thank you, to the folks behind Pharo and everyone reading this. This is the problem with FOSS: blink, and yesterday's rave technology is gone. And Smalltalk is *important* -- I'm not a Smalltalk programmer, but every time I play with it I learn so much about OOP, programming, and good design of classes. And I keep coming back to try to work with it again, because it offers things I want and just can't get elsewhere. The idea that Smalltalk might one day just ... not run? Not worth thinking about. Okay, broke a cardinal rule here. Apologies for joining a mailing list and then immediately posting a long rant. Going to Lurk Mode now! Shadow.

July 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] Calendar Events?

by Norbert Hartl

You mean Scheduler? http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~TorstenBergmann/Scheduler Norbert > Am 25.07.2015 um 09:24 schrieb stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr>: > > Hi > > I would like to schedule some events automatically. I know that there was a package doing something like that. > Any pointers? > > Stef >

July 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Using geographic data

by HernÃ¡n Morales Durand

Hi Arturo, Do you want to implement a Geolocator like NAC? http://www.nactag.info/map.asp The GADM world tree is built from a CSV which I generated from the GADM 2.0 dBase files for the whole world. I checked the dBase format and doesn't include the polygon information you find in the .kmz files. I saw they released 2.5 this month (July 2015) but only in ESRI geodatabase format (which I didn't investigated yet, but not the same as ESRI shapefile format) and will release 2.7 in August 2015. Another way could be just to parse the KML (is just an XML file) using XPath or XMLPullParser. About locating the point in a polygon the problem of traditional 2D inclusion tests (ray crossing methods) is that require large storage, given polygons of enough size, complexity and amount of edges. This is a common situation with level 1 and 2 polygons. New methods for example classiffy polygon edges into layers, results in faster inclusion test. HernÃ¡n 2015-07-24 20:19 GMT-03:00 Arturo Zambrano <arturo.zambrano(a)gmail.com>: > Hi All, > I would like to get some advice regarding which path I should take. > > Problem: > Given a coordinate I want to know to which geographical object it belongs > to. > > Path 1 > Using Glorp to make a query to a Postgis instance containing the > boundaries of the geobjects > > > > Path 2 > Use the data form GADM data (according to this thread > <http://forum.world.st/PostGIS-in-Pharo-td4802233.html>). > > > I would avoid path 1 in order to avoid installation of postgi. From the > thread mentioned above, I thing that it requires some development. > > > Regarding Path 2, I don't see which framework or library should I use to > import and query the data contained in the KMZ from GADM. > > > Any advice is welcome. > > Best regards. > Art > > >

July 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Using geographic data

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Arturo, In Pharo itself, you could just do it yourself, like this: T3GeoTools class>>#is: position inside: polygon "T3GeoTools is: 5.33732(a)50.92601 inside: { 5.48230(a)50.82249. 5.49523(a)50.81288. 5.50138(a)50.82008. 5.50228(a)50.82595. 5.49265(a)50.82560. 5.48230(a)50.82249 }" "T3GeoTools is: 5.49007(a)50.82205 inside: { 5.48230(a)50.82249. 5.49523(a)50.81288. 5.50138(a)50.82008. 5.50228(a)50.82595. 5.49265(a)50.82560. 5.48230(a)50.82249 }" "Point in polygon - ray casting algorithm - http://www.ecse.rpi.edu/Homepages/wrf/Research/Short_Notes/pnpoly.html" | inside otherIndex | inside := false. otherIndex := polygon size. polygon doWithIndex: [ :each :index | | other | other := polygon at: otherIndex. (((each y > position y) ~= (other y > position y)) and: [ position x < (((other x - each x) * (position y - each y) / (other y - each y)) + each x) ]) ifTrue: [ inside := inside not ]. otherIndex := index ]. ^ inside Inside circle, rectangle etc are trivial. Sven > On 25 Jul 2015, at 01:19, Arturo Zambrano <arturo.zambrano(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi All, > I would like to get some advice regarding which path I should take. > > Problem: > Given a coordinate I want to know to which geographical object it belongs to. > > Path 1 > Using Glorp to make a query to a Postgis instance containing the boundaries of the geobjects > > > > Path 2 > Use the data form GADM data (according to this thread). > > > I would avoid path 1 in order to avoid installation of postgi. From the > thread mentioned above, I thing that it requires some development. > > > Regarding Path 2, I don't see which framework or library should I use to > import and query the data contained in the KMZ from GADM. > > > Any advice is welcome. > > Best regards. > Art > >

July 25, 2015

Calendar Events?

by stepharo

Hi I would like to schedule some events automatically. I know that there was a package doing something like that. Any pointers? Stef

July 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] [OT] Bill Gross: The single biggest reason why startups succeed

by Jimmie Houchin

I am not a professional programmer, nor am I young, nor a graybeard. :) I found Smalltalk about 1999 in the form of Squeak. My biggest problems have been not in learning Smalltalk. But rather some of the projects I wanted to do needed to interface without outside libraries. Because I always felt more comfortable and productive in Smalltalk than anything else I have ever used. Even when I could not use Squeak/Pharo for whatever I was doing at the moment. I kept returning. And over time my requirements changed and the requirements Squeak/Pharo are able to fulfill keep improving. I think one thing that we really need to do when talking to people who have tried Smalltalk/Squeak/Pharo and were not able to use it for whatever reason. To periodically keep trying Squeak/Pharo. The magical intersection of experience, knowledge, understanding, project/personal requirements and Squeak/Pharo's abilities might wonderfully meet. Squeak and Pharo are in this for the long game. Keep trying. At some point more and more people will find that where they are in life and where Squeak/Pharo are at that time, things just click. Cog, Spur, Sista, 64bit plus all of the growing projects and libraries make for an ever increasingly attractive and powerful object environment empowering its users to accomplish great things. Jimmie Houchin On 07/23/2015 01:29 PM, Dimitris Chloupis wrote: > for me as a beginner a big turn off was the quality of documentation > and my fear that third party libraries will not be that well supported > because of the size of the community meaning more bugs less features > etc. It was certainly a much bigger struggle learning pharo than > learning python. > > After 2 years Pharo has gotten much better in both areas. > > I can't blame people who try Pharo and are turned off by these things, > but I still recommend it for at least giving it a try. > > In my case because I have found an easy way to combine python with > pharo made it easy to move to pharo. I still love to work with Pharo > and its getting better each year because of the passion of people > behind this and of course their hard work. > > I also like to support a project that follows my taste on how I like > to code , even if its not that popular. Actually its easier to feel > that you make a difference in a small community. > > Something tells me I will be sticking around for a long long time :) > > I dont think there is a secret to success or a simple advice. > > I once read that "success" is name of the tip of an iceberg called > "constant failure". success.jpg > > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 8:25 PM stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr > <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote: > > Hi esteban > > we need to be much much better one talking to external libraries. > Our esteban is working on it. > > Stef > > Le 23/7/15 18:52, Esteban A. Maringolo a Ã©crit : >> Peter, >> At your joung age you might have very good reasons to have chosen >> Pharo over anything else as I did a lot of years ago. I >> discovered Smaltalk by chance when I was 21 years old and already >> had my years developing with Perl and was starting to learn Java. >> Fortunately I started making a living out of it since I was 22 >> until today. >> >> But if you want to make the community bigger you have to look >> into why people don't chose it, otherwise we'll be "preaching to >> the choir" as we many times are. >> >> These days FP is on the bull trend, having been there way before >> than Smalltalk (Lisp, Haskell, etc. and their reincarnations >> Clojure, Scala...). What makes them popular most of the times is >> not the techology per se, but who uses it. >> >> Regards! >> >> >> Esteban A. Maringolo >> >> 2015-07-23 13:06 GMT-03:00 Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com >> <mailto:i.uhnak@gmail.com>>: >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 4:51 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo >> <emaringolo(a)gmail.com <mailto:emaringolo@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> When I talk to "new programmers" (20-25 years old), >> almost all of them don't get attracted by it. >> Why? I couldn't tell. Mainly because they can't use the >> few tools/patterns they already learnt how to, barely, use. >> >> >> As someone who (still) falls into this range I see several >> (unrelated) reasons why they might not like it. >> >> For me personally I encountered Pharo in University in >> "Conceptual modeling" class, where it was introduced pretty >> much as "Oh, by the way, here is this completely new >> environment that you've never seen nor worked with that we >> will use, but we will not tell you much about it"... so my >> first experience was quite awful. I mean... I couldn't even >> write the code in my favorite text editor and I had to use >> this weird browser where system code and my own code were >> mangled up. Image crashing meant I lost my work. Now I know I >> can just replay changes but I didn't know it back then (the >> focus of the class was modeling, not Pharo). Bugs (this was >> Pharo 2 (and 3 beta)) were commonplace and since I had no >> experience I couldn't tell whether it was my fault or the >> system's fault... it was overall very unpleasant. >> I later (after the course) basically foced myself to look at >> Pharo again because I didn't understand why would people >> bother to use it... so clearly there must have been some >> value I've missed. And I don't regret that decision a bit, >> but I had to go look for it. So statistically speaking from >> the year I did the class only two or three students (to my >> knowledge) kept their interest out of 119 (so 2-3% maybe). >> Other years were no different. >> Next year there will be a dedicated class for Pharo so I'm >> curious if this will change somehow. >> >> But there may be other reasons why students may not like >> it... (looking again from my experience) >> From university experience perspective, the previous year >> (for us, and from what I talked with people it's not that >> different also for other universities) was a heavy massage in >> C and C++ where we were implementing very basic concepts >> (hashtables, and other data structures). A year where your >> main concern was to pass a automated checking system... so >> mostly memory management and creating write-only code. Plus >> warped concepts of OOP (so to use actual student quotes: "C++ >> is great for explaining OOP", "You can do OOP in pure C", or >> "OOP is useless, long confusing code, full of getters and >> setters, .. and slow. Inline assembler is much faster"). So >> with such concepts it's hard to give them OOP language, >> because they already made up their mind. >> >> Yet another reason I can see might be that when you are young >> you are more inclined to follow what's cool and modern and >> popular and shit (or has the word "game" in its name). >> So if today's world revolves around connectivity, internet, >> JavaScript and whatnot, then giving them a isolated >> environment with non-mainstream technology and a dead >> language they've never heard of (I thought that Smalltalk was >> an obscure language that died in '80s, before I found that >> actually it's alive and doing quite well) will not be met >> well with appreciation. >> >> But no reason to stop there... there market for Smalltalk is >> arguably small, so people will prefer language that is in >> demand by the market (after all, I pay my bills with >> JavaScript/PHP/webstuff, and not Pharo; because it's much >> easier to find a job; with Pharo I would have to basically >> start my own business to be profitable and then I would be >> doing business and not programming). >> >> And last (but not least), finding support for it is much >> harder, since the community is smaller. So it's almost all or >> nothing scenario. >> >> Also some of the arguments here can be applied also for >> functional programming (which I haven't (shame on me) even >> engaged with, besides messing with Haskell in XMonad (and >> multi-paradigm languages that have some functional concepts). >> >> Finally I don't think that you should expect the same >> behavior from young people (<26) as from adults. They will >> have different values, views, and whatnot... I mean that's >> the point of growing up and acquiring experience. All you can >> do is offer this alternative option and provide support. >> Being mainstream or non-mainstream is akin to self-fulfilling >> prophecy. (Of course exceptions happen, JavaScript was raised >> to glory because the language happen to be in the right place >> (browser) at the right time (boom of modern web)). >> >> Hmm... and this post ended up being much chaotic and longer >> than I intended to... but whatever. >> >> Peter >> >> p.s.: I like the music analogy since I was listening to k-pop >> while working (webtech), and now I am listening to ambient >> music when writing about Pharo :p >> >> >

July 25, 2015

Using geographic data

by Arturo Zambrano

Hi All, I would like to get some advice regarding which path I should take. Problem: Given a coordinate I want to know to which geographical object it belongs to. Path 1 Using Glorp to make a query to a Postgis instance containing the boundaries of the geobjects Path 2 Use the data form GADM data (according to this thread <http://forum.world.st/PostGIS-in-Pharo-td4802233.html>). I would avoid path 1 in order to avoid installation of postgi. From the thread mentioned above, I thing that it requires some development. Regarding Path 2, I don't see which framework or library should I use to import and query the data contained in the KMZ from GADM. Any advice is welcome. Best regards. Art

July 24, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] saving text files from inspector

by Andrei Chis

Another solution would be to add the action for saving as long as the content is not truncated. Cheers, Andrei On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 11:44 PM, Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 10:44 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> > wrote: > >> The problem is that if you have a larger text file (let's say 100Mb), >> Rubric still takes too long to open. Thus, we cannot show the whole file, >> and because of that, we also cannot provide complete editing options. This >> will change with TxText. >> >> I see... even though it sounds weird... I mean not only will most editors > irrespective of language choke on 100Mb files, but such file will be > obviously generated and why would you edit such a beast by hand? > > So if I want it I should write a custom presenter (or just copy the script > one). > > Thanks, > Peter >

July 24, 2015