June 2015 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Timezone offset in Date, why?

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 03 Jun 2015, at 20:10, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > 2015-06-03 12:05 GMT-03:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: >>> On 03 Jun 2015, at 16:57, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: >>> I've observed several of date/time discussions that I didn't really >>> follow all the details, but my first thought here is that Date, Time, >>> and DateAndTime are three separate concepts. Shouldn't timezones only >>> affect comparing dates if you are calculating the hours between dates? >>> Adding the concept of "starting at a specific moment in time" would >>> seem to turn a Date into a DateAndTime, which is the point where >>> timezones should have an impact. > > +1. > > Time is time. No matter "where" it happens. > > >>> For example, if you are reading a date "dd/mm/yyyy" from some database >>> field, what timezone do you assign? > >> That is indeed the (original) problem. > > Exactly. > >> But even dd/mm/yyyy in some random DB or somewhere on the internet implies a timezone, else it does not make (enough/total) sense. > > IMO, it doesn't imply a timezone. > >> Again, your date today is not equal to mine, at some point in time we are in different days, it is that simple. > > But is unnecesary heretic. Date is a "calendar date", not a point in > time. "May 3rd" is the same "date" as "May 3rd" whether you are in > Sydney or Houston. > > And for those "edge" cases where your calendar date is different from > mine we have DateAndTime, and so does the database with the Timestamp > format. > > It is the first time I have to deal with an implementation of Date > that includes a timezone offset in it. Funny is I never had to deal > with this before. > > Regards! > > Esteban A. Maringolo > > ps: ISO 8601 doesn't mention anything about "date" timezones. In fact > the word "timezone" implies time, not date. I understand your POV, but you should have read what I originally wrote: the Date that we have now is more than an abstract date, it is an object that can answer to certain messages, like tell you when it starts, ends, whether it contains certain points in time. In order to do that, you have to know in which timezone to interpret it in. Look, I am not defending the current design, I just try to explain. And May 3rd, interpreted as a concrete period of time, [from,to], is *NOT* the same in Sydney and Houston.

June 3, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo Video Tutorial: Package Tags

by Sean P. DeNigris

Sergio Fedi wrote > If something is a tag, then you should be able to apply multiple tags to > something. > > If not, then they are, as you say, subpackages. Agreed. Actually, tags are more interesting as they would be much more valuable to users, who want a logical domain view of the system. Currently, the package tree we provide is more a Package Browser than a System Browser. And... tags are orthogonal to packages. The way we use them, sub-packages seems more correct. ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Video-Tutorial-Package-Tags-tp4830133p4830290.h… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

June 3, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Timezone offset in Date, why?

by Stephan Eggermont

On 03-06-15 20:15, Esteban A. Maringolo wrote: > I refer Postgres datatypes because I find them to have a good criteria > based on a huge user base and because is what raised the issue I'm > dealing with now. SQL databases are well-known to have ignored the standards for dealing with times and dates for decades to make it difficult to switch to a competitor. For performance reasons you'll probably often want to map to smallint value objects. Stephan

June 3, 2015

Reddit example

by recursive68＠gmail.com

Thanks for the pointers. I've got it working in Pharo 4 but had to change this method as I was getting a database session connection error. It appears to be losing the Glorp session, so I changed this class method thus: RedditDatabaseResource login>> "^ DefaultLogin ifNil: [ DefaultLogin := self createLogin ]" ^ DefaultLogin := self createLogin.

June 3, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Timezone offset in Date, why?

by Esteban A. Maringolo

2015-06-03 15:10 GMT-03:00 Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com>: > Time is time. No matter "where" it happens. Looking at Postgres documentation [1] about Date/Time types, they have a time with timezone and time without it. The default is without. There is no "date with timezone" type. I refer Postgres datatypes because I find them to have a good criteria based on a huge user base and because is what raised the issue I'm dealing with now. Regards! -- Esteban. [1] http://www.postgresql.org/docs/devel/static/datatype-datetime.html

June 3, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Timezone offset in Date, why?

by Esteban A. Maringolo

2015-06-03 12:05 GMT-03:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: >> On 03 Jun 2015, at 16:57, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: >> I've observed several of date/time discussions that I didn't really >> follow all the details, but my first thought here is that Date, Time, >> and DateAndTime are three separate concepts. Shouldn't timezones only >> affect comparing dates if you are calculating the hours between dates? >> Adding the concept of "starting at a specific moment in time" would >> seem to turn a Date into a DateAndTime, which is the point where >> timezones should have an impact. +1. Time is time. No matter "where" it happens. >> For example, if you are reading a date "dd/mm/yyyy" from some database >> field, what timezone do you assign? > That is indeed the (original) problem. Exactly. > But even dd/mm/yyyy in some random DB or somewhere on the internet implies a timezone, else it does not make (enough/total) sense. IMO, it doesn't imply a timezone. > Again, your date today is not equal to mine, at some point in time we are in different days, it is that simple. But is unnecesary heretic. Date is a "calendar date", not a point in time. "May 3rd" is the same "date" as "May 3rd" whether you are in Sydney or Houston. And for those "edge" cases where your calendar date is different from mine we have DateAndTime, and so does the database with the Timestamp format. It is the first time I have to deal with an implementation of Date that includes a timezone offset in it. Funny is I never had to deal with this before. Regards! Esteban A. Maringolo ps: ISO 8601 doesn't mention anything about "date" timezones. In fact the word "timezone" implies time, not date.

June 3, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Timezone offset in Date, why?

by phil＠highoctane.be

Le 3 juin 2015 17:05, "Sven Van Caekenberghe" <sven(a)stfx.eu> a Ã©crit : > > > > On 03 Jun 2015, at 16:57, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > > > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 8:36 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > >> > >>> On 03 Jun 2015, at 04:20, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> I'm debugging the PostgresV3 driver for GLORP, and among other test > >>> failures, there is a kind that particularly bugs me: two identical > >>> dates do not match, the reason? The internal "start" of aDate > >>> (Timespan) is a DateAndTime, and as such has a timezone offset. > >>> > >>> Is this conceptually right? > >>> > >>> Esteban A. Maringolo > >> > >> Yes, it is bit annoying and weird, but it all does make sense as well. > > > >> The concept of a date cannot be seen independent from a timezone (day transitions are different for you than for me, new year starts at different moments depending on where you live). > >> Defining a Date as the timespan of one day starting at a specific moment in time is correct. > > > > I've observed several of date/time discussions that I didn't really > > follow all the details, but my first thought here is that Date, Time, > > and DateAndTime are three separate concepts. Shouldn't timezones only > > affect comparing dates if you are calculating the hours between dates? > > Adding the concept of "starting at a specific moment in time" would > > seem to turn a Date into a DateAndTime, which is the point where > > timezones should have an impact. > > Currently: Date is a Timespan of 24h starting at a specific, universally unique point in time (a DateAndTime). You can ask it things like when did you begin, end, do you contain t. > > Other, more abstract notions of a Date are possible, of course, but that is not what we have. > > > For example, if you are reading a date "dd/mm/yyyy" from some database > > field, what timezone do you assign? > > That is indeed the (original) problem. > > But even dd/mm/yyyy in some random DB or somewhere on the internet implies a timezone, else it does not make (enough/total) sense. > > Again, your date today is not equal to mine, at some point in time we are in different days, it is that simple. > > > cheers -ben > > > >> One thing you could try is to make the starting time UTC, a bit like > >> > >> Date today translateToUTC. > >> > >> DateAndTime now asUTC asDate. > >> > >> But I am not sure how much of your problems this would solve. I do this: localTimeZoneToRestore := DateAndTime localTimeZone. DateAndTime localTimeZone: (TimeZone abbreviated: 'UTC'). "Do stuff" time := DateAndTime midnight. DateAndTime localTimeZone: TimeZone default. Phil > >> > >> Sven > > >

June 3, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Monticello / OS deadlock ?

by Ben Coman

On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 5:10 PM, Jose San Leandro <jose.sanleandro(a)osoco.es> wrote: > Hi, > > In one of our projects we are using Pharo4. The image gets built by gradle, > which loads the Metacello project. Sometimes, we see the build process > hangs. It just don't progress. > > When adding local gitfiletree:// dependencies manually through Monticello > after a while Pharo gets frozen. It's not always the same repository, it's > not always the same number of repositories before it hangs. > > I launched the image with strace, and attached gdb to the frozen process. > It turns out It's waiting for a lock that gets never released. > Perhaps try each of the experimental delay schedulers under World > System > Settings > System > Delay Scheduler. I no reason to think this will help, its easy to try (as a shotgun approach to troubleshooting). cheers -ben

June 3, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Timezone offset in Date, why?

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 03 Jun 2015, at 16:57, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 8:36 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >> >>> On 03 Jun 2015, at 04:20, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> I'm debugging the PostgresV3 driver for GLORP, and among other test >>> failures, there is a kind that particularly bugs me: two identical >>> dates do not match, the reason? The internal "start" of aDate >>> (Timespan) is a DateAndTime, and as such has a timezone offset. >>> >>> Is this conceptually right? >>> >>> Esteban A. Maringolo >> >> Yes, it is bit annoying and weird, but it all does make sense as well. > >> The concept of a date cannot be seen independent from a timezone (day transitions are different for you than for me, new year starts at different moments depending on where you live). >> Defining a Date as the timespan of one day starting at a specific moment in time is correct. > > I've observed several of date/time discussions that I didn't really > follow all the details, but my first thought here is that Date, Time, > and DateAndTime are three separate concepts. Shouldn't timezones only > affect comparing dates if you are calculating the hours between dates? > Adding the concept of "starting at a specific moment in time" would > seem to turn a Date into a DateAndTime, which is the point where > timezones should have an impact. Currently: Date is a Timespan of 24h starting at a specific, universally unique point in time (a DateAndTime). You can ask it things like when did you begin, end, do you contain t. Other, more abstract notions of a Date are possible, of course, but that is not what we have. > For example, if you are reading a date "dd/mm/yyyy" from some database > field, what timezone do you assign? That is indeed the (original) problem. But even dd/mm/yyyy in some random DB or somewhere on the internet implies a timezone, else it does not make (enough/total) sense. Again, your date today is not equal to mine, at some point in time we are in different days, it is that simple. > cheers -ben > >> One thing you could try is to make the starting time UTC, a bit like >> >> Date today translateToUTC. >> >> DateAndTime now asUTC asDate. >> >> But I am not sure how much of your problems this would solve. >> >> Sven

June 3, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Monticello / OS deadlock ?

by Jose San Leandro

Unfortunately it doesn't fix it, or at least I get the same sympthoms. Sending SIGUSR1 prints this: SIGUSR1 Wed Jun 3 16:53:50 2015 /home/chous/toolbox/pharo-4.0/pharo-vm/pharo pharo VM version: 3.9-7 #1 Thu Apr 2 00:51:45 CEST 2015 gcc 4.6.3 [Production ITHB VM] Built from: NBCoInterpreter NativeBoost-CogPlugin-EstebanLorenzano.21 uuid: 4d9b9bdf-2dfa-4c0b-99eb-5b110dadc697 Apr 2 2015 With: NBCogit NativeBoost-CogPlugin-EstebanLorenzano.21 uuid: 4d9b9bdf-2dfa-4c0b-99eb-5b110dadc697 Apr 2 2015 Revision: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git Commit: 32d18ba0f2db9bee7f3bdbf16bdb24fe4801cfc5 Date: 2015-03-24 11:08:14 +0100 By: Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> Jenkins build #14904 Build host: Linux pharo-linux 3.2.0-31-generic-pae #50-Ubuntu SMP Fri Sep 7 16:39:45 UTC 2012 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux plugin path: /home/chous/toolbox/pharo-4.0/pharo-vm/ [default: /home/chous/toolbox/pharo-4.0/pharo-vm/] C stack backtrace & registers: eax 0xff981e94 ebx 0xff981db0 ecx 0xff981e48 edx 0xff981dfc edi 0xff981c80 esi 0xff981c80 ebp 0xff981d18 esp 0xff981d64 eip 0xff981f78 *[0xff981f78] /home/chous/toolbox/pharo/pharo-vm/pharo[0x80a33a2] /home/chous/toolbox/pharo/pharo-vm/pharo[0x80a3649] linux-gate.so.1(__kernel_rt_sigreturn+0x0)[0xf773acc0] /home/chous/toolbox/pharo/pharo-vm/pharo(signalSemaphoreWithIndex+0x28)[0x809d8c8] /home/chous/toolbox/pharo/pharo-vm/pharo[0x810868c] linux-gate.so.1(__kernel_sigreturn+0x0)[0xf773acb0] /home/chous/toolbox/pharo/pharo-vm/pharo(signalSemaphoreWithIndex+0x5e)[0x809d8fe] /home/chous/toolbox/pharo/pharo-vm/pharo(aioPoll+0x22f)[0x809f0af] /home/chous/toolbox/pharo-4.0/pharo-vm/vm-display-X11(+0xe671)[0xf772a671] /home/chous/toolbox/pharo/pharo-vm/pharo(ioRelinquishProcessorForMicroseconds+0x17)[0x80a1887] /home/chous/toolbox/pharo/pharo-vm/pharo[0x80767fa] [0xb4a2fe0c] [0xb4a2d700] [0xb53b9382] [0xb4a2d648] [0x5b] All Smalltalk process stacks (active first): Process 0xb6d930c4 priority 10 0xff9ad450 M ProcessorScheduler class>idleProcess 0xb4d935c0: a(n) ProcessorScheduler class 0xff9ad470 I [] 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basicNew: basicAt:put: basicNew: basicAt:put: at:put: basicNew signal basicNew: basicAt:put: basicNew: basicAt:put: at:put: new: basicNew new: replaceFrom:to:with:startingAt: basicNew basicNew: primSQFileSetNonBlocking: basicNew stringHash:initialHash: primOSFileHandle: basicNew wait at:put: signal primAioEnable:forSemaphore:externalObject: basicNew objectAt: basicNew: stackp: basicNew primitiveResume wait wait signal wait signal primAioHandle:exceptionEvents:readEvents:writeEvents: signal basicNew: basicAt:put: primSQFileSetNonBlocking: basicNew: basicAt:put: basicNew: basicAt:put: at:put: basicNew basicNew wait signal primUTCMicrosecondsClock + >= + < primSignal:atUTCMicroseconds: wait signal wait wait relinquishProcessorForMicroseconds: relinquishProcessorForMicroseconds: primUTCMicrosecondsClock >= signal + primSignal:atUTCMicroseconds: wait basicNew basicNew basicNew basicNew signal basicNew signal basicNew new: wait new: at:put: at:put: at:put: basicNew: at:put: basicNew: replaceFrom:to:with:startingAt: replaceFrom:to:with:startingAt: basicNew new: at:put: new: basicNew: replaceFrom:to:with:startingAt: replaceFrom:to:with:startingAt: at:put: basicNew: replaceFrom:to:with:startingAt: replaceFrom:to:with:startingAt: at:put: at:put: at:put: new: replaceFrom:to:with:startingAt: primSizeOfPointer new: at:put: at:put: at:put: primSizeOfPointer basicNew: basicNew at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: replaceFrom:to:with:startingAt: replaceFrom:to:with:startingAt: replaceFrom:to:with:startingAt: new: basicNew new: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: at:put: new: replaceFrom:to:with:startingAt: new: at:put: at:put: primGetCurrentWorkingDirectory basicNew: replaceFrom:to:with:startingAt: replaceFrom:to:with:startingAt: primForkExec:stdIn:stdOut:stdErr:argBuf:argOffsets:envBuf:envOffsets:workingDir: primGetPid primGetPid primGetPid basicNew basicNew wait at:put: signal wait shallowCopy new: replaceFrom:to:with:startingAt: signal wait replaceFrom:to:with:startingAt: at:put: signal primCloseNoError: primCloseNoError: primCloseNoError: signal basicNew: basicNew basicNew basicNew wait signal primUTCMicrosecondsClock + >= + < primSignal:atUTCMicroseconds: wait signal wait relinquishProcessorForMicroseconds: relinquishProcessorForMicroseconds: relinquishProcessorForMicroseconds: relinquishProcessorForMicroseconds: relinquishProcessorForMicroseconds: relinquishProcessorForMicroseconds: relinquishProcessorForMicroseconds: basicNew: primRead:into:startingAt:count: basicNew signal wait basicNew: basicNew basicNew: replaceFrom:to:with:startingAt: replaceFrom:to:with:startingAt: signal basicNew signal basicNew new: wait signal wait signal primAioHandle:exceptionEvents:readEvents:writeEvents: signal wait relinquishProcessorForMicroseconds: relinquishProcessorForMicroseconds: relinquishProcessorForMicroseconds: relinquishProcessorForMicroseconds: relinquishProcessorForMicroseconds: relinquishProcessorForMicroseconds: relinquishProcessorForMicroseconds: stack page bytes 4096 available headroom 3300 minimum unused headroom 2152 (SIGUSR1) 2015-06-03 14:15 GMT+02:00 David T. Lewis <lewis(a)mail.msen.com>: > On Wed, Jun 03, 2015 at 07:05:15AM +0200, Thierry Goubier wrote: > > Hi Dave, > > > > Le 03/06/2015 03:15, David T. Lewis a ?crit : > > >Hi Thierry and Jose, > > > > > >I am reading this thread with interest and will help if I can. > > > > > >I do have one idea that we have not tried before. I have a theory that > > >this may > > >be an intermittent problem caused by SIGCHLD signals (from the external > OS > > >process > > >when it exits) being missed by the > UnixOSProcessAccessor>>grimReaperProcess > > >that handles them. > > > > > >If this is happening, then I may be able to change grimReaperProcess to > > >work around the problem. > > > > > >When you see the OS deadlock condition, are you able tell if your Pharo > VM > > >process has subprocesses in the zombie state (indicating that > > >grimReaperProcess > > >did not clean them up)? The unix command "ps -axf | less" will let you > look > > >at the process tree and that may give us a clue if this is happening. > > > > I found it very easy to reproduce and I do have a zombie children > > process to the pharo process. > > Jose confirms this also (thanks). > > Can you try filing in the attached UnixOSProcessAccessor>>grimReaperProcess > and see if it helps? I do not know if it will make a difference, but the > idea is to put a timeout on the semaphore that is waiting for signals from > SIGCHLD. I am hoping that if these signals are sometimes being missed, then > the timeout will allow the process to recover from the problem. > > > > > > Interesting enough, the lock-up happens in a very specific place, a call > > to git branch, which is a very short command returning just a few > > characters (where all other commands have longuer outputs). Reducing the > > frequency of the calls to git branch by a bit of caching reduces the > > chances of a lock-up. > > > > This is a good clue, and it may indicate a different kind of problem (so > maybe I am looking in the wrong place). Ben's suggestion of adding a delay > to the external process sounds like a good idea to help troubleshoot it. > > Dave > > >

June 3, 2015