June 2015 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] loading Coral from SmalltalkHub

by Francisco Garau

Hi Stef, On 6 June 2015 at 06:55, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > > > Le 5/6/15 21:37, Francisco Garau a Ã©crit : > > Thanks Stefan. > > I am playing with the Coral image downloaded from the CI site. > > > ok now again pay attention. The syntax is not important and stable. > What is more important is > I understand what you are saying and it's not my intention to push the syntax experiments into Coral. I am just using the existing infrastructure to play a bit with the latest Pharo and see if the ideas I've got could work in practice. As Ben says, it's a itch I need to scratch. > Coral should let > - us interactively access and define environment varibales > - write and ***debug*** OS scripts > - publish these scripts > > Here is typical session I want. > > you have a coral scripts > - no method > - just a bunch of expression > - you get a bug > - you relaunch the script -db > - and you get debugger you fix the script > - then your script is regenerate > Thanks for the explanation. It'd be nice to add this into the Coral website. Now if you need to define a method then you define a class ie > PillarInstructor and a couple of method but they should be ***normal*** > method and normal class > (just with a better syntax that the ugly code chunk delimiter) and this is > why I proposed > > PillarInstructor>>compileAllFileIn: aFS > [ > gkjgkjgkjg kjgkjgkgkgj > ] > The syntax changes I am thinking about would bring together block and method definitions. I would have thought it is important for your modularity efforts to have a full syntax. Otherwise, how would you be compiling code into a minimal image that hasn't got any UI module? [Point: Object | | x y | [sign | ^ (x sign @ y sign)]. [dotProduct: aPoint | ^ (x * aPoint x) + (y * aPoint y)]. ] > On 4 June 2015 at 20:08, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > >> Thanks Stefan >> >> Francisco there is nothing new in Coral we got stalled again because we >> focused on pillar. >> >> Stef >> >> Le 4/6/15 11:20, Stephan Eggermont a Ã©crit : >> >> On 04-06-15 01:46, Francisco Garau wrote: >>> >>>> I've tried loading Coral by following the below instructions in its >>>> website <http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/coral/getting-started.html> but >>>> they >>>> failed when trying to load Readline. >>>> >>>> Gofer new url: 'http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/coral'; >>>> package: 'ConfigurationOfCoral'; >>>> load. >>>> >>>> ConfigurationOfCoral loadDevelopment. >>>> >>> >>> Yes, that is an old configuration. I've updated it >>> on smalltalkhub: PharoExtras/Coral, but that was before >>> the release of Pharo4. CDLM, Damien C and Stef have worked >>> on it this year. >>> >>> As PetitParser still uses the >>> #stable and #development style of symbolic naming, >>> instead of #release5.1, things can break when a new >>> version of Moose is released. >>> >>> It seems the project was moved to Smalltalk Hub >>>> (http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/Coral/) >>>> >>>> What expressions should I evaluate in a Pharo5 image to get the latest >>>> Coral project loaded. >>>> >>> >>> I've added a Pharo 5 build to >>> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/Coral/ >>> The 4 and 5 builds are green >>> >>> I've also added a Pharo4 and Pharo5 build to OSProcess >>> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/OSProcess/ >>> The 4 and 5 builds each have 3 failures >>> >>> It is possible that some changes to the parser are needed >>> due to improvements in PetitParser. I ran into that last >>> time I tried, and forgot whether that got fixed. >>> >>> Stephan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > >

June 6, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo Video Tutorial: Package Tags

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

> > I am not clear on the internals dealing with "tag" , but in your > example I guess the tags needs to be associated with classes, but our > current "tag"s are associated with a packages? Yeah at least to me it feels that it is associated more with packages. GT-Tests-Spotter makes a good example, tagging classes as: Exceptions; > Scripting; and Mocks. You might simultaneously have filter categories: > * Exceptions > * Scripting > * Mocks > * Exceptions,Mocks > * Scripting,Mocks To me this seems like unreasonable amount of extra effort and shit ton of cognitive load with no obvious benefit. Sure, tags are powerful in theory; but to make them work you need to apply them consistently throughout the whole system to get the benefit. _For me_ this seems like unproportinal amount of effort with little gain. E.g. Gmail allows to tag emails, yet I treat it very hierarchically; that way I there is always only one way --- the most meaningful of them to get to it; otherwise I would have to think about all the various contexts in which it could be accessed. So getting back to Pharo's tags, I like the fact that there are some common namings, such as many packages will have tags like "Examples", or "Tests", however I still fail to see why would you want to put one class into multiple tags and what the benefit would be. Peter

June 6, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Ring Vs Ficus

by Yuriy Tymchuk

As far as I remember Ficus relies on Ring and is a model for handling history. Itâs used by Epicea which is a new changes frameworkâ¦ Uko > On 06 Jun 2015, at 09:26, abdelghani ALIDRA <alidrandco(a)yahoo.fr> wrote: > > Hi Guys, > > I believe the Ring metamodel has been proposed 4 or 5 years earlier. > Is it acctually in use in the current pharo tools? which ones? > > I have been told that Martin has develloped a different model : Ficus > What are the limitations that Martin tried to fixed? > What can be further unhanced? > > Thanks. > > Abdou. >

June 6, 2015

Ring Vs Ficus

by abdelghani ALIDRA

Hi Guys, I believe the Ring metamodel has been proposed 4 or 5 years earlier. Is it acctually in use in the current pharo tools? which ones? I have been told that Martin has develloped a different model : Ficus What are the limitations that Martin tried to fixed?What can be further unhanced? Thanks. Abdou.

June 6, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] loading Coral from SmalltalkHub

by Ben Coman

On 6 Jun 2015 1:56 pm, "stepharo" <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > > > > Le 5/6/15 21:37, Francisco Garau a Ã©crit : >> >> Thanks Stefan. >> >> I am playing with the Coral image downloaded from the CI site. > > > ok now again pay attention. The syntax is not important and stable. > What is more important is > > Coral should let > - us interactively access and define environment varibales > - write and ***debug*** OS scripts > - publish these scripts > > Here is typical session I want. > > you have a coral scripts > - no method > - just a bunch of expression > - you get a bug > - you relaunch the script -db > - and you get debugger you fix the script > - then your script is regenerate > > Now if you need to define a method then you define a class ie > PillarInstructor and a couple of method but they should be ***normal*** method and normal class > (just with a better syntax that the ugly code chunk delimiter) and this is why I proposed > > PillarInstructor>>compileAllFileIn: aFS > [ > gkjgkjgkjg kjgkjgkgkgj > ] > > Stef I like that syntax. Cheers -ben > >> >> On 4 June 2015 at 20:08, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Stefan >>> >>> Francisco there is nothing new in Coral we got stalled again because we focused on pillar. >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> Le 4/6/15 11:20, Stephan Eggermont a Ã©crit : >>> >>>> On 04-06-15 01:46, Francisco Garau wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I've tried loading Coral by following the below instructions in its >>>>> website <http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/coral/getting-started.html> but they >>>>> failed when trying to load Readline. >>>>> >>>>> Gofer new url: 'http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/coral'; >>>>> package: 'ConfigurationOfCoral'; >>>>> load. >>>>> >>>>> ConfigurationOfCoral loadDevelopment. >>>> >>>> >>>> Yes, that is an old configuration. I've updated it >>>> on smalltalkhub: PharoExtras/Coral, but that was before >>>> the release of Pharo4. CDLM, Damien C and Stef have worked >>>> on it this year. >>>> >>>> As PetitParser still uses the >>>> #stable and #development style of symbolic naming, >>>> instead of #release5.1, things can break when a new >>>> version of Moose is released. >>>> >>>>> It seems the project was moved to Smalltalk Hub >>>>> (http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/Coral/) >>>>> >>>>> What expressions should I evaluate in a Pharo5 image to get the latest >>>>> Coral project loaded. >>>> >>>> >>>> I've added a Pharo 5 build to >>>> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/Coral/ >>>> The 4 and 5 builds are green >>>> >>>> I've also added a Pharo4 and Pharo5 build to OSProcess >>>> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/OSProcess/ >>>> The 4 and 5 builds each have 3 failures >>>> >>>> It is possible that some changes to the parser are needed >>>> due to improvements in PetitParser. I ran into that last >>>> time I tried, and forgot whether that got fixed. >>>> >>>> Stephan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >

June 6, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] loading Coral from SmalltalkHub

by stepharo

Le 5/6/15 21:37, Francisco Garau a Ã©crit : > Thanks Stefan. > > I am playing with the Coral image downloaded from the CI site. ok now again pay attention. The syntax is not important and stable. What is more important is Coral should let - us interactively access and define environment varibales - write and ***debug*** OS scripts - publish these scripts Here is typical session I want. you have a coral scripts - no method - just a bunch of expression - you get a bug - you relaunch the script -db - and you get debugger you fix the script - then your script is regenerate Now if you need to define a method then you define a class ie PillarInstructor and a couple of method but they should be ***normal*** method and normal class (just with a better syntax that the ugly code chunk delimiter) and this is why I proposed PillarInstructor>>compileAllFileIn: aFS [ gkjgkjgkjg kjgkjgkgkgj ] Stef > > On 4 June 2015 at 20:08, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr > <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote: > > Thanks Stefan > > Francisco there is nothing new in Coral we got stalled again > because we focused on pillar. > > Stef > > Le 4/6/15 11:20, Stephan Eggermont a Ã©crit : > > On 04-06-15 01:46, Francisco Garau wrote: > > I've tried loading Coral by following the below > instructions in its > website > <http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/coral/getting-started.html> > but they > failed when trying to load Readline. > > Gofer new url: 'http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/coral'; > package: 'ConfigurationOfCoral'; > load. > > ConfigurationOfCoral loadDevelopment. > > > Yes, that is an old configuration. I've updated it > on smalltalkhub: PharoExtras/Coral, but that was before > the release of Pharo4. CDLM, Damien C and Stef have worked > on it this year. > > As PetitParser still uses the > #stable and #development style of symbolic naming, > instead of #release5.1, things can break when a new > version of Moose is released. > > It seems the project was moved to Smalltalk Hub > (http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/Coral/ > <http://smalltalkhub.com/#%21/%7EPharoExtras/Coral/>) > > What expressions should I evaluate in a Pharo5 image to > get the latest > Coral project loaded. > > > I've added a Pharo 5 build to > https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/Coral/ > The 4 and 5 builds are green > > I've also added a Pharo4 and Pharo5 build to OSProcess > https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/OSProcess/ > The 4 and 5 builds each have 3 failures > > It is possible that some changes to the parser are needed > due to improvements in PetitParser. I ran into that last > time I tried, and forgot whether that got fixed. > > Stephan > > > > > > > >

June 6, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Protocol selection erratic behaviour

by stepharo

There is a little utils in nautilus that propose "good protocol" and we should brigde the widget to us it. Now I'm resuurrecting a little project that let us compose rule to define how methods should be categorized. The idea is to agree on the main categories recategorize all the packages with it use it for interactive sesssion too. Stef Le 6/6/15 00:27, Sergio Fedi a Ã©crit : > Let me see if I understand what you are saying. > > The category "setter" exists, but it's an automatically generated one > (as well as others, I suppose). > > So it doesn't appear in the protocol selection window, because that > window only lists protocols created manually. > > Is that what you where saying?

June 6, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo Video Tutorial: Package Tags

by Sergio Fedi

The examples you listed are awesome. When I first saw Tags on the system browser I thought they behaved that way.

June 6, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo Video Tutorial: Package Tags

by Ben Coman

On Sat, Jun 6, 2015 at 7:30 AM, Sergio Fedi <sergio.fedi(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> If something is a tag, then you should be able to apply multiple tags to >>> something. >> Well you sort-of can do that. Consider how many packages have tag "Tests" >> in it. They don't need to be globally unique and it makes sense to use the >> very same tag in different packages... so at least for me tag is perfectly >> fitting name. > > If you could use Tags as tags, then you could have this > > Car -> Model > CarTest -> Model, Tests > CarFactory -> Factories > CarFactoryTest -> Factories, Tests > > Thus, you could browse different groups of classes anyway you want: > > Has tag: Model > Classes: Car, CarTest > > Has tag: Model, no-Tests > Classes: Car > > Has tag: Tests > Classes: CarTest, CarFactoryTest > > Has tag: Factores, Tests > Classes: CarFactoryTest > > Imagine then that you could also make tags to show which classes implement a > certain Pattern, so now you could browse different implementations of a > specific Pattern all accoress your image. > > Tagging in any domain is an extremely useful feature. > So is adding notes/comments, but that's another topic. I am not clear on the internals dealing with "tag" , but in your example I guess the tags needs to be associated with classes, but our current "tag"s are associated with a packages? If tags are used how you describe, I wonder if our package "categories" then become tag filter expressions. Perhaps GT-Tests-Spotter makes a good example, tagging classes as: Exceptions; Scripting; and Mocks. You might simultaneously have filter categories: * Exceptions * Scripting * Mocks * Exceptions,Mocks * Scripting,Mocks cheers -ben

June 6, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo Video Tutorial: Package Tags

by Sergio Fedi

>> If something is a tag, then you should be able to apply multiple tags to something. > Well you sort-of can do that. Consider how many packages have tag "Tests" in it. They don't need to be globally unique and it makes sense to use the very same tag in different packages... so at least for me tag is perfectly fitting name. If you could use Tags as tags, then you could have this Car -> Model CarTest -> Model, Tests CarFactory -> Factories CarFactoryTest -> Factories, Tests Thus, you could browse different groups of classes anyway you want: *Has tag: *Model *Classes: *Car, CarTest *Has tag: *Model, no-Tests *Classes: *Car *Has tag: *Tests *Classes: *CarTest, CarFactoryTest *Has tag: *Factores, Tests *Classes: *CarFactoryTest Imagine then that you could also make tags to show which classes implement a certain Pattern, so now you could browse different implementations of a specific Pattern all accoress your image. Tagging in any domain is an extremely useful feature. So is adding notes/comments, but that's another topic.

June 5, 2015