February 2015 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] recover lost changes

by Sean P. DeNigris

Marcus Denker-4 wrote > The issue is here And the solution is right there in the comment! Pharo Issue Tracker wrote > ChangesLog default > is not registered for the SystemAnnouncer. > Reinitializing it should help: > ChangesLog reset;default. Works on both 3.0 and 4.0. I made a parent issue 14916 and an issue for 4.0 14918 (13290 was about 3.0). ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/recover-lost-changes-tp4804929p4805160.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Feb. 11, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] recover lost changes

by Marcus Denker

> On 11 Feb 2015, at 16:31, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > > Stephan Eggermont wrote >> The current implementation > > +1. It is really bad, especially for new users, that we've let it go on this > long. It should have been fixed and backported to 3.0. > The issue is here: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13290/Recover-lost-changes-doesn-t-recove… <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13290/Recover-lost-changes-doesn-t-recove…> Marcus

Feb. 11, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] get them while they are young

by Sean P. DeNigris

kilon.alios wrote > I would not recommend Pharo to beginner coders, but with Updated Pharo By > Example near completion I may change my mind ;) I've found most of the changes we've made to be low level enough that PBE is still a great reference. And when Deep Into Pharo covered FileSystem, Metacello, and Settings, I thought we were doing pretty well. Where specifically have you found pain from our existing documentation? I know it's a bit scattered... Spec? There are two papers on that which we should maybe make more obviously accessible. Nautilus? Don't know about that one! ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/get-them-while-they-are-young-tp4805068p4805142.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Feb. 11, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] recover lost changes

by Sean P. DeNigris

Stephan Eggermont wrote > The current implementation +1. It is really bad, especially for new users, that we've let it go on this long. It should have been fixed and backported to 3.0. ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/recover-lost-changes-tp4804929p4805140.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Feb. 11, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] GSOC 2015 application

by Ben Coman

On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 10:13 PM, Serge Stinckwich < serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 3:07 PM, Martin BÃ¤hr > <mbaehr(a)email.archlab.tuwien.ac.at> wrote: > > Excerpts from Serge Stinckwich's message of 2015-02-11 10:02:21 +0100: > >> with Uko, we are considering submitting the Pharo project as a > >> mentoring organization for GSOC 2015: > >> > >> We will need your help in order to find ideas of projects. > > > > Is there any effort make a joint application under esug or some other > umbrella? > > We are under the umbrella of the Pharo Consortium. > Now google say... "Umbrella organizations get more slots. If an organization is acting as an umbrella for other projects, chances are we'll allocate more students to you simply because there's a great deal of different types of work to be done, and we're hoping our students will end up with something that appeals to them among this wide offering." [1] The Pharo Consortium might conceivably be considered an umbrella organisation, if a reasonable amount of selected projects relate to applications built on top of Pharo and not "just" improvements in the Pharo release. e.g. SciSmalltalk, PhaROS, Phratch. I guess that is a balance to be determined later. Google also provide some tips [2] for project topics : * Low-hanging fruit: These projects require minimal familiarity with the codebase and basic technical knowledge. They are relatively short, with clear goals. * Risky/Exploratory: These projects push the scope boundaries of your development effort. They might require expertise in an area not covered by your current development team. They might take advantage of a new technology. There is a reasonable chance that the project might be less successful, but the potential rewards make it worth the attempt. * Fun/Peripheral: These projects might not be related to the current core development focus, but create new innovations and new perspective for your project. * Core development: These projects derive from the ongoing work from the core of your development team. The list of features and bugs is never-ending, and help is always welcome. * Infrastructure/Automation: These projects are the code that your organization uses to get its development work done; for example, projects that improve the automation of releases, regression tests and automated builds. This is a category in which a GSoC student can be really helpful, doing work that the development team has been putting off while they focus on core development. * Don't Be That Guy!!! Don't propose projects that neither you nor anyone else wants to mentor. btw, Are all of these topics [http://topics.pharo.org/] still current (maybe some are too big for summer)? btw2, Where is our ideas page going to be hosted? [1] http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc20… [2] http://en.flossmanuals.net/GSoCMentoring/defining-a-project/ cheers -ben > > > there are a few projects on labs.fossasia.org that might fit: > > > > Create a file editor and asset manager solution with smalltalk > > Create a smalltalk application for offline text search > > emulate a PostgreSQL server in Smalltalk > > Smalltalk SQL Parser & Evaluator > > > > i also discussed with craig the idea of doing something with his context > work on pharo. > > essentially i'd like to use context as a tool to remote manage images. > > a gsoc project could be to work out how to set up context for that > usecase > > (while helping to make sure context works with pharo) > > You are from FOSSASIA ? Didn't know you have some interests in Smalltalk > ;-) > If some of your projects are related to Pharo, we could post also your > projects on our lists. > > We will send the link to list of ideas in a few hours. > > Regards, > -- > Serge Stinckwich > UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) > Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk > http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/ > >

Feb. 11, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Changes file size

by Esteban A. Maringolo

2015-02-11 10:02 GMT-03:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: >> ps: As said in another thread, Torsten's version (descendant of mine) >> didn't seem to have this issue. > Yes, we are making (some) progress. > Maybe we should promote the latest version to #stable ? I think we should, but there is something with that too. There is only one version in the MetaRepo whilst the rest of Metacello configs are in the DBXTalk/Configurations repo. I don't know if that is intentional or accidental. Regards. Esteban A. Maringolo

Feb. 11, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] SmaCC: First steps

by Thierry Goubier

2015-02-11 11:16 GMT+01:00 kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>: > "What you see is that, with the {{}}, I create PyAtomNode instances for > all productions, even if it isn't appropriate. Maybe this should be changed > like that for lists : > > | <lbrack> <rbrack> {{List}} > | <lbrack> listmaker 'list' <rbrack> {{List}}" > > Both approaches you described a) adding instance methods to PyAtomNode > that provide checks for the type b) Creating separate nodes for diffirent > types work for me. Solution (b) seemed more smalltalky to me. Maybe a best > compromise would be to have for example PyListNode as a subclass of > PyAtomNode ? > Yes, if you find that appropriate or if they share some implementation bits (I'm not sure of the latter, but it may help to organise stuff). What you do is, in the grammar, you add a %hierarchy directive, like that: %hierarchy Atom (List Dictionary); And, at AST generation, SmaCC will inherit as much as possible from Atom definition in List and Dictionary (at least, I suppose it does: some of the SmaCC code generation tools are rather impressive, and, if you look carefully, it is prepared for more than just generation of Smalltalk code) > If I can create something that others find useful too, I certainly would > prefer it. My needs are not very specific, I think I want pretty much what > anyone would want for importing data from python to pharo . One way or > another I will satisfy my needs this is not my worry. > And that's fine to refactor the grammar to match your requirements :) > > "And the last one is about the visitor. For complex processing like the > transformations you intend, I would see two strategies: a builder inside > the visitor with a stack/context strategy, so that you can recurse in your > visit of the ast and add elements to the right collection, or a simple > recurse and merge the result of the lower visits (when in a List node, > collect the visit of all the children as an array or as an > OrderedCollection)." > > Yes that was my way of thinking too. A collection of methods that consume > the AST , walk the tree and build a more simplified structure. > > The problem I was having was two side, from one side PyAtomNode is used > for several diffirent things. From the other side not only lists, > dictionaries, tupples can be multidimensional but also can act as > containers for each other. So a list can contain a dictionary which can > contain a list which can contain a tupple and as you imagine the rabbit > whole can go very deep. Of course nothing of this is surprising for any > language. > > Generally speaking this is not such a big problem right now for me because > I prefer dealing with simple types with a bit of multidimensionality. Most > of the types Blender uses is like that. But it may become a problem later > on for example if the user wants to have access to the node system of > blender. Nodes can easily contain other nodes and it can create a nightmare > scenario in that case but I will leave that for when the time comes. > For me, the way to deal with that is to have a model of that data and visitors on it, to tackle the "future" complexity. If you go that way (recursive structure), two good (and not that easy) things to have are: equality and copy. > > "I believe you are on the right path, if my explanations made sense :)" > > Your explanation not only made sense but you pretty much described what I > was considering doing. > See, I don't have much to do then ;) > > "If you start changing the grammar as suggested above, make a fork and > pull requests on github :)" > > Will do, my focus is in latest python 3 because its what Blender uses, but > on types should not make any diffirence. > Good point. It would be nice to have a diff on the grammars of Python2 and Python3; at the moment, there is space in the naming for a Python 3 parser (named PythonParser3, of course), however we would have a collision on the AST nodes (two PyAtomNodes, two ...). Have to consider that and maybe have Py2AtomNode, etc... to leave space for the Python 3 AST if it differs too much. Thierry

Feb. 11, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] GSOC 2015 application

by Sebastian Sastre

> On Feb 11, 2015, at 12:26 PM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openInWorld.com> wrote: > > it should be achievable in 12 weeks Thatâs a great constraint! Iâm starting to take notes to share

Feb. 11, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] SmaCC: First steps

by Sebastian Heidbrink

Hi! Maybe you also want to have a look at http://www.squeaksource.com/openqwaq/ There is a part PyBridge included. MAybe you can take some of the Smalltalk Python Cmodel classes from there. Sebastian Am 10.02.2015 um 23:24 schrieb kilon alios: > Ok so after rereading the tutorial and testing again and again , I > think I have finally managed to understand how SmaCC really works and > I was succesful into converting simple python litsts to pharo arrays > and ordered collections. > > The tricky part now is to apply this knowledge to complex python types > like multi dimensional lists, tuples and dictionaries. I understand > that the visitor allows me to visit a specific object instances each > time they are found in the AST . But because I want to walk the AST in > order to build multi dimensional ordered collections I need something > more, or maybe my understanding of the visitor pattern is flawed. > > The problem I am having here is that each time I parse a python type > that python type is not necessarily represented by different kind of > node. For example whether its a list or a tuple or a dictionary the > same class is used PyAtomNode. In order to differentiate between those > diffirent python types PyAtomNode has instance variables for right and > left bracket, parantheses, and curly. So my initial thinking is to > check those instance variables to see if they are nil and from that I > can conclude which python type I am parsing. > > So I can preform simple ifs that check that the instance variable is > Nil or not but the question is if my strategy is a good one or a bad one. > > I could define my own syntax to simplify the AST tree including > different nodes for different python types , because from the looks of > it , it seems it is a bit too verbose for my needs but On the other > hand I am not so sure because in the future my needs may become more > verbose too. > > So I am very close and ready to create my full python types converter > for pharo but I wanted some good advice before wasting time on > something that is not efficient. > > > By the way Thierry I have to agree with you Smacc is a very capable > parser, also I like the use of regex syntax, makes it uglier compared > Pettit Parser but I prefer the compact regex syntax to having to > define and browse tons of classes and send tons of messages. Also the > Python support is very good and I am impressed how easily SmaCC can > parse whole python applications since some of the test are very > complex. Well done great work! > > > > On Sat, Jan 31, 2015 at 12:04 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com > <mailto:kilon.alios@gmail.com>> wrote: > > thank for your congratulations, because at times I fear I ask too > obvious questions. I have to say I find this parsing very complex > but very fascinating too :) Time to experiment with the visitor. > > On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 11:49 PM, Thierry Goubier > <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > 2015-01-30 14:04 GMT+01:00 kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com > <mailto:kilon.alios@gmail.com>>: > > Ok thanks for the info, I am still however curious about > these "tests" are just tests (which may or may not happen) > that determine the AST, for example which node to use ? > > > 'tests' is just there because, in the grammar, there is this > at a certain point: > > testlist: > test 'test' "," testlist > | test 'test' comma_opt > ; > > I have named this use of test 'test', so SmaCC has deduced > that testlist will be a list of test(s) nodes (or maybe other > stuff such as atoms, depending on the productions for test).. > so, SmaCC, in each rule where testlist is found, it will add a > 'tests' instance variable. > > So, basically, the grammar rules explain how each node can be > decomposed in sub-nodes, and the additional annotations (the > 'test' naming and the {{}} or {{}}) drive how the classes for > the nodes you want to keep are generated. In that testlist > case, no node will be generated, but everywhere testlist > appear on the right of the rule, then it will add a 'tests' > instance variable. > > > Or are they tests related to unit testing class > PythonParserTests ? > > > Not at all :) > > > Also you said I need to use the visitor created by > PythonParser I assume you mean PyRootNodeVisitor ? Just as > it is explained in the AST chapter of the documentation. > > In my case this simple python list will need me to > subclass it and override method visitListmaker , the > aListmaker passed as argument to the method should I > assume it is PyListmakerNode ? > > > In my experience, what you need to do is you have a look at > the ast generated and see if you can recognize the elements. > From what I see in your simple example, the key to your list > is that PyAtomNode instance with something in list. Once you > have that, you know that you need to visit PyAtomNode (and > check that it has the [ ] tokens). > > Looking into what is listmaker in atom in the grammar > (congratulations by the way, you have seen it :) ), you'll see > that it creates a listmaker node only in the first case: test > followed by a list_for, otherwise it falls back to testlist... > > Thierry > > > On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 10:50 AM, Thierry Goubier > <thierry.goubier(a)gmail.com > <mailto:thierry.goubier@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Hi kilon, > > The tests instance variable is linked to the python > grammar: top level items in an expression are probably > tests, and, through the grammar, tests can be just atoms. > > So the tests instance variable doesn't means it is > testing anything :) > > Thierry > > Le 30 janv. 2015 09:23, "kilon alios" > <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com <mailto:kilon.alios@gmail.com>> > a Ã©crit : > > Ok so I tried to parse a very simple list like > > [ 67,12342,5 ] > > using Parse and explore , I can find these number > by following this AST (for example 67) > > PyFileInputNode>>statements: -> 1: > PySimpleStmNode>>stmts: -> 1: > PyExprStmtNode>>tests: ->1: PyPowerNode>>atom: -> > PyAtomNode>>list: -> 1: PyPowerNode>>atom: -> > PyPowerNode>>numberToken -> numberToken>>value -> 67 > > quite a structure, but the one thing I dont get is > "tests" , why "tests" ? > > Does it tests something and if yes what ? > > > > >

Feb. 11, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] GSOC 2015 application

by Martin BÃ¤hr

Excerpts from Serge Stinckwich's message of 2015-02-11 15:13:22 +0100: > >> with Uko, we are considering submitting the Pharo project as a > >> mentoring organization for GSOC 2015: > >> We will need your help in order to find ideas of projects. > > Is there any effort make a joint application under esug or some other umbrella? > We are under the umbrella of the Pharo Consortium. i am aware of that. i was wondering if there are efforts beyond pharo that would allow squeak projects as well? i believe more projects and mentors would make a gsoc application more successful. > > there are a few projects on labs.fossasia.org that might fit: > > > > Create a file editor and asset manager solution with smalltalk > > Create a smalltalk application for offline text search > > emulate a PostgreSQL server in Smalltalk > > Smalltalk SQL Parser & Evaluator > > > > i also discussed with craig the idea of doing something with his context work on pharo. > > essentially i'd like to use context as a tool to remote manage images. > > a gsoc project could be to work out how to set up context for that usecase > > (while helping to make sure context works with pharo) > > You are from FOSSASIA ? Didn't know you have some interests in Smalltalk ;-) well, my interest in smalltalk (and pharo) is personal. FOSSASIA is promoting Free Software in asia and as such is supporting projects and developers in asia. since i got involved with FOSSASIA it just made sense to list all my projects there. > If some of your projects are related to Pharo, we could post also your > projects on our lists. the 4 projects listed above are based on pharo. the two SQL projects are not mine btw, but are the result of me inviting mentors on the pharo and squeak lists last month to VALS Semester of Code. VALS Semester of Code btw, is something pharo (and smalltalk) could participate in too in the next round. greetings, martin. -- eKita - the online platform for your entire academic life -- chief engineer eKita.co pike programmer pike.lysator.liu.se caudium.net societyserver.org secretary beijinglug.org mentor fossasia.org foresight developer foresightlinux.org realss.com unix sysadmin Martin BÃ¤hr working in china http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/

Feb. 11, 2015