February 2015 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] Getting notified when a morph moves

by Stephan Eggermont

Hilaire wrote: >Okay if I understand correctly, the two morphs you want to link with a >line are also morphs of yours? So you can mangle into them. I was >supposing the two morphs to link could be arbitrary ones, i.e. ones you >can't modify. I am trying to get a better understanding of Morphic by writing a small drawing editor suitable for a tutorial. current state: http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~StephanEggermont/MorphicDraw/ Stephan

Feb. 12, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] pharo and ui again

by Pablo R. Digonzelli

where can i watch it? Pablo ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Sven Van Caekenberghe" <sven(a)stfx.eu> Para: nicolaihess(a)web.de, "Any question about pharo is welcome" <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> Enviados: Jueves, 12 de Febrero 2015 3:29:42 Asunto: Re: [Pharo-users] pharo and ui again > On 12 Feb 2015, at 00:46, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: > > But much howtos or tutorials widely scattered and aren't up to date. Johan Fabry's talk at the Pharo Days was an excellent introduction to Spec, watch it.

Feb. 12, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] a successful success story

by Ben Coman

Nice story. Thanks Alain. cheers -ben On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 6:42 PM, Alain Busser <alain.busser(a)gmail.com> wrote: > It is in French so I try to translate some parts. My goal was to teach as > fast as possible the binomial distribution (number of successes when > independently repeating a Bernoulli experiment) to students who, either > have never seen an algorithm, or have seen some algorithmics in math > lessons and don't like it at all. Both categories loved what I did with > them. I precise that almost all of them are allergic to english language. > > The assignment was "throwing 10 dices, what is the probability of having > at least 2 times "6" around the 10 results?" > > The whole job is related here: > http://irem.univ-reunion.fr/IMG/pdf/binomiale.pdf (but I did only pages > 1-5 in one hour) > > The first step was to show how one can simulate the throwing of 10 dices. > I can do it without having to make a variable vary (explicitely at least), > thanks to Seymour Papert: > > 10 timesRepeat: [ Transcript show: (6 atRandom)]. > > Then I spoke about the usefulness of the Bag object when there are > statistics: Adding the 10 results (small integers) inside a Bag makes it an > object where one can see and count the 6es: > > | urn | > urn := #( ) asBag. > 10 timesRepeat: [ urn add: (6 atRandom)]. > Transcript show: urn. > > (Why "urn"? This is the word used by Bernoulli, he was thinking about > balls concealed inside a vase for which the latin word was "urna"; the > balls where called "billets" by Condorcet, so that they could instead be > pieces of paper; whatever they were, a vase was use to conceal them) > > Then there remains only one difficulty: How can I automatize the counting > of the 6es inside the bag? There is the most frightening challenge: Use a > block with students who have never seen Pharo before. Very good surprise: > They didn't seem to find this that difficult, I just had to say that > > 1. The pipe symbol means "such that" like in my lessons > 2. The first time I use the letter "x" I have to tell Pharo that it is yet > no variable to evaluate, hence the need to precede it with a colon. > > With that in mind, counting the 6es is the same as counting the x-es such > x equals 6: > > | urn | > urn := #( ) asBag. > 10 timesRepeat: [ urn add: (6 atRandom)]. > Transcript show: (urn count: [ :x | x=6]). > > Afterwards it remained only to repeat the whole experiment and, instead of > showing the number of 6es, adding it to another bag called "stats", then > displaying this bag. The end was made with a tool which exists only in > mathsOntologie: The displaying of a bar chart in a translucent Morph, so > that the most rapid of the students could compare several bar charts by > superposition and guess the shape of the distribution. > > Once again, they all loved it, either because they found Pharo a better > tool than whatever they knew before (and disliked), or because they knew > nothing similar before (one exception: A girl who never learned > algorithmics but just happens to love playing with a computer, here she is: > http://reunion.la1ere.fr/2014/06/04/miss-reunion-muriel-roger-candidate-nde… > ). > > I insist on the fact that they never saw anything like Smalltalk before, > and did not seem to "rtfm": Is it because Smalltalk is a natural language > or because MathsOntologie mimics the french language, I lack elements of > comparison to answer to this. But I insist also to say that these students > seem to dislike probability theory too. > > Finally, some stats about these stats: I can rapidly find the bugs when > the text appears in red, and most of the time a point was missing at the > end of a line, or a right bracket was missing or misplaced. Sometimes they > add a space inside a word like asBag which becomes "as Bag". > > Alain Busser > IREM La RÃ©union >

Feb. 12, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] pharo and ui again

by Stephan Eggermont

Thanx Nacho, fixed in .4 Stephan

Feb. 12, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] pharo and ui again

by Ignacio Sniechowski

Hi Stephan, I've tried to run your package in both Pharo 3 and 4 but there are some missing classes. Do I need to install some dependencies before? Thanks Nacho *Lic. Ignacio Sniechowski, MBA* *Prosavic SRL* *Tel: (011) 4542-6714* On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 12:22 PM, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: > Sebastian wrote: > >After 5 days I can tell ,that I am lost in Morphic, UIManager, > Traits/No-Traits, Spec, GLMMorphic, Poly.... > >And sometimes things are even mixed up and I am not able to decide which > approach to follow,... > > If your goal is a "Maya Editor"-like UI, I've put together something that > could be useful as > a starting point. I would be interested in how to encapsulate this in > Spec, and in what should > change in Bloc. The idea is to grow it into a tutorial. > > http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~StephanEggermont/MorphicDraw > > Stephan > > > > > > >

Feb. 12, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] pharo and ui again

by Stephan Eggermont

Sebastian wrote: >After 5 days I can tell ,that I am lost in Morphic, UIManager, Traits/No-Traits, Spec, GLMMorphic, Poly.... >And sometimes things are even mixed up and I am not able to decide which approach to follow,... If your goal is a "Maya Editor"-like UI, I've put together something that could be useful as a starting point. I would be interested in how to encapsulate this in Spec, and in what should change in Bloc. The idea is to grow it into a tutorial. http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~StephanEggermont/MorphicDraw Stephan

Feb. 12, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] recover lost changes

by S Krish

Can I get the link to this change set. On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 10:05 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > Marcus Denker-4 wrote > > The issue is here > > And the solution is right there in the comment! > > > Pharo Issue Tracker wrote > > ChangesLog default > > is not registered for the SystemAnnouncer. > > Reinitializing it should help: > > ChangesLog reset;default. > > Works on both 3.0 and 4.0. I made a parent issue 14916 and an issue for 4.0 > 14918 (13290 was about 3.0). > > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/recover-lost-changes-tp4804929p4805160.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >

Feb. 12, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Getting notified when a morph moves

by Hilaire

Le 12/02/2015 11:04, Stephan Eggermont a Ã©crit : > > This works for me. I can attach the listener when the dragging starts, > and detach it when it stops. That should do. Okay if I understand correctly, the two morphs you want to link with a line are also morphs of yours? So you can mangle into them. I was supposing the two morphs to link could be arbitrary ones, i.e. ones you can't modify. -- Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu

Feb. 12, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] pharo and ui again

by kilon alios

Frankly big libraries dont make much sense for me when it comes to Pharo. Sure if we were talking about Python I would say yes. I do believe however that Pharo makes it already very easy to combine libraries together. So for me the ideal solution would be a very low level core that comes with very well documented extensions API and then widgets are implemented as third party extensions that will allow you to assemble a GUI framework tailor made to your own needs. Unfortunately making such a complex core will require quite some effort . So my idea is not without its own problems. So I would have to say no , I dont agree, at least I think we imagine very different things. The goal of Spec may not be to replace Morphic but then the goal of the human race was not to go to the moon until one day scientists told us its possible. The same can happen with Spec, keep improving it , extending it and people will keep using it more and more in place of Morphic even if Spec still keeps relying in Morphic. Afterall its not difficult to imagine Spec one day in the distant future coming with its own backend. None can predict the future afterall, even if you invent it (sorry Alan). But then this what makes future so exciting , its unpredictable nature. On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 4:10 PM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: > > 2015-02-12 14:35 GMT+01:00 kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>: > >> And there lies your problem. You dont agree with me and I dont agree with >> you and the next guy wont agree with either of us. >> > > But you both agree on: "Pharo needs a GUI framework" , no? > > > >> >> But there are many people out there that love Spec and Bloc may be proven >> an excellent replacement for Morphic who knows , we definitely wont know if >> everyone start focusing on Spec alone. >> >> > It is not the goal of Spec to replace Morphic.And "Spec or Bloc" is not > the question. Spec without the UI elements is pretty useless. > > > > >> >> On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 2:51 PM, Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> On Feb 12, 2015, at 10:12, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> All of the above frameworks have tons of users so one thing that this >>> shows us is that fragmentation is really beneficial to a community. The >>> reason is simple, >>> >>> GUI is so complex subject but there will never be one ring to rule them >>> all. Many have tried, all of them have failed. >>> >>> >>> I donât agree. If we would have more than 10 developers working on GUI >>> frameworks in Pharo this may be the case. But we donât have this number. If >>> we are very lucky we may have 4. >>> >>> I would rather have 4 persons pulling a large cart in the same >>> direction, instead of 4 of them pulling their own cart (1/4th the size) in >>> more-or-less the same direction (if at all) as the other guys. In the first >>> case a lot more progress will be made. If there is something wrong with the >>> cart, fix it! Do not waste all this time building your own. >>> >>> ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- >>> >>> Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry >>> PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile >>> >>> >> >

Feb. 12, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] pharo and ui again

by kilon alios

Dont we all have problems we try to find solutions for ? I find nothing wrong with that. You may think I try to insult you, I can assure you I am not that kind of person and I respect your opinion. I am curious are you going to be one of those 4 developers that will make contributions to Spec ? Or are you a Spec contributor already ? On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 4:01 PM, Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: > > Kilon, itâs not nice of you to say that I have a problem. I have an > opinion, not a problem. > > And Iâm saying that we have 4 developers at most, not 10. > > > On Feb 12, 2015, at 14:35, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > And there lies your problem. You dont agree with me and I dont agree with > you and the next guy wont agree with either of us. > > So how exactly are you going to convince 10 people to work on the GUI API > of your choosing ? Are you going to pull out the argument that all theses > APIs are doing more less the same thing ? Good luck convincing them. I will > certainly not be one of them when the center of my philosophy is "the devil > is in the details". > > All pharo developers may end up focusing on Spec for example will be > enough reason for me to consider abandoning Pharo because I don't like > Spec. Most likely I wont because I will find a way not to have to use it > but you get my point. > > Coding is not there just to satisfy practical needs (because otherwise I > would not even being using Pharo) its even more about personal taste , this > is why we have tons of programming languages and even more libraries. Also > the bigger the library it is the slower it moves because of backward > compatibility and having to make happy a big user base. You want to add a > new feature ? Sure can do . You dont like the general design ? Oops sorry > you are out of luck. > > Personally I like Morphic, I heavily dislike Spec and the verdict is open > for Bloc. I will have to use Bloc on a project to make up my mind but so > far I have been told that Bloc is a work in progress in early stages. So > for me the situation is crystal clear Morphic all the way and if I find > something I don't like, subclass and improve. > > But there are many people out there that love Spec and Bloc may be proven > an excellent replacement for Morphic who knows , we definitely wont know if > everyone start focusing on Spec alone. And I am glad they dont. But in any > case I would not want to force my opinion on other people and instead I > recognize that people want different things. > > So I definitely approve of many options and I also approve that pharo core > developers try to make Pharo more modular to make it easier to mix > different libraries together , I think that will be so awesome. > > On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 2:51 PM, Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: > >> >> On Feb 12, 2015, at 10:12, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> All of the above frameworks have tons of users so one thing that this >> shows us is that fragmentation is really beneficial to a community. The >> reason is simple, >> >> GUI is so complex subject but there will never be one ring to rule them >> all. Many have tried, all of them have failed. >> >> >> I donât agree. If we would have more than 10 developers working on GUI >> frameworks in Pharo this may be the case. But we donât have this number. If >> we are very lucky we may have 4. >> >> I would rather have 4 persons pulling a large cart in the same direction, >> instead of 4 of them pulling their own cart (1/4th the size) in >> more-or-less the same direction (if at all) as the other guys. In the first >> case a lot more progress will be made. If there is something wrong with the >> cart, fix it! Do not waste all this time building your own. >> >> ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- >> >> Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry >> PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile >> >> > > > > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- > > Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry > PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile > >

Feb. 12, 2015