December 2015 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] what is Pharo's mission statement? (was Re: Transcendental #new (was Re: why Pillar))

by Marcus Denker

> On 28 Dec 2015, at 19:33, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On 12/28/2015 01:18 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: >>> On 28 Dec 2015, at 19:11, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> I got you, stephano. I do not wish to be banned. >>> >>> Leaving aside established spiritual traditions, but picking out the pattern for exploration, what would you say the meta-meme of Pharo is? In other words, what is the mission statement? This would help me grasp the motivations of the community and is not a meaningless exercise for the community, from a leadership development perspective.. >> http://pharo.org/about. >> https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/30434/PharoVision.pdf > > This is awesome, thank you for posting it. It mentions a roadmap. Is there such a page? We are working on an updated roadmap. We will update it to form a roadmap soonâ¦ (I wanted to have it done already, but was busy with other things end of the yearâ¦) Marcus

Dec. 28, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] what is Pharo's mission statement? (was Re: Transcendental #new (was Re: why Pillar))

by Robert Withers

On 12/28/2015 01:18 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: >> On 28 Dec 2015, at 19:11, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I got you, stephano. I do not wish to be banned. >> >> Leaving aside established spiritual traditions, but picking out the pattern for exploration, what would you say the meta-meme of Pharo is? In other words, what is the mission statement? This would help me grasp the motivations of the community and is not a meaningless exercise for the community, from a leadership development perspective.. > http://pharo.org/about. > https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/30434/PharoVision.pdf This is awesome, thank you for posting it. It mentions a roadmap. Is there such a page? > In an image, you can also do World Menu > Help > Pharo Zen Yes, my talk of meta-memes is stretching the "Abstraction and composition are our friends." in new directions. I exceeded capacity for such on the religious side and the concern over divisiveness notwithstanding. Ok, done. > >> best, >> >> robert >> >> >> On 12/28/2015 12:01 PM, stepharo wrote: >>> To conclude this thread, Robert I suggest that you stay on a technical discussion. >>> Do not force us to ban you (we will do it if you continue) because people >>> are distracted. >>> Most of us do not understand all these spiritual points and do not want to >>> read about them in such mailing-lists. >>> >>> Stef >>> >> -- >> Robert >> . .. ... ^,^ >> >> > -- Robert . .. ... ^,^

Dec. 28, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] why Pillar

by SaÅ¡a JaniÅ¡ka

On Pon, 2015-12-28 at 18:03 +0100, stepharo wrote: Hello Stef, > have a look at Pillar and you can add footnotes and we will review > your code and integrate it. Don't you think it's too early for me to add such feature. ;) > We are just really busy right now. Don't worry. I tried Pillar, but I can live with using rst at the moment and if find that Pharo/Pillar might be more productive environment when it comes to the docs, I'll gladly take a look how to do it. For now, I agree, there are more important issues and I'm really looking forward to use Spur-based VM as well as 64 bits. Sincerely, Gour --Â A person is considered still further advanced when he regards honest well-wishers, affectionate benefactors, the neutral, mediators, the envious, friends and enemies, the pious and the sinners all with an equal mind.

Dec. 28, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] why Pillar

by SaÅ¡a JaniÅ¡ka

On Pon, 2015-12-28 at 11:09 -0500, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas wrote: > but themes, skeletons and interactivity. (Details in the referred blog > post). I agree that there could be more themes available, although I'm not 100% sure I understand what is special about grav's skeleton's since it seems to me that such things are usually part of Nikola's theme. In any case, I understand that having larger choice to srart with is nice. What do you mean by interactivity? Otherwise, Nikola is getting nice new feature called 'shortcode' (same as Hugo) which allows to pack different functionality and call it via simple 'shorcode'. > I used Leo for several years, but nothing beats for me the interactivityÂ and > modifiability of a live coding environment like Pharo/Rossal. I'm just starting, but it looks great, indeed. ;) Sincerely, Gour --Â Everyone is forced to act helplessly according to the qualitiesÂ he has acquired from the modes of material nature; therefore noÂ one can refrain from doing something, not even for a moment.

Dec. 28, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] why Pillar

by Jimmie Houchin

On 12/28/2015 09:21 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas wrote: >>> b. It has support for bibliographic references, footnotes a a more >>> complete feature set. >> I wonder how is it that despite being present for so long, it does miss >> such features... > > Well that's the cost of being part of a small community where not all > the projects can be developed beyond the interest and limitations of > few members. And that's why interaction with broader communities (for > example pandoc's one could be wise). Yes, that is true. That is a cost of a smaller community. But the problem here is that your solution creates a self fulfilling situation. If everybody who comes to Pharo is encouraged to use tools outside of Pharo rather than using, improving and extending the tools in Pharo. Then the community is working against itself. And the tools never reach what the person was wanting to use. Pharo will improve more at a minimum if the people who love Pharo use Pharo to scratch their itches and use Pharo to create the tools to scratch their itches. If we continually look outside, we might as well go outside. Pharo is more like an operating system/environment than a simple language. More like Linux/Unix and C/Python, than C or Python alone. We prefer our tools to be written native to our environment rather than external to it. It is different that Python, Ruby, Lua, PHP or whatever. There are so many advantages to using tools in Pharo when using Pharo. Since Pharo is a full environment on top of any OS, it is exceptionally portable. Put it in a folder on a flash drive with appropriate VMs and off you go. It is also so easy to simply snapshot where you are to save your state in development or exploration of a problem. So many things that are easy in Pharo that are difficult, hard or near impossible to do elsewhere. If Pharo users were to drop Pillar and begin to use Pandoc, then we be using tools that we have no control over and tools that we are likely not to contribute to development of. If we then had an need which is not met by the tools, then what do we do? Do we now adopt yet another language, environment, editor, ... in order to meet that need? That is fine for people whose preferred environment and toolset is so defined. But that is not the preferred way in Pharo (or Smalltalk). Pharo is a long game tool. We are happy to grow it slow, steady and stable. We are happy to have more and more help to do so. We want to grow Pharo and its tools. Not Pandoc, Python and their tools. They are able to take care of themselves. I want to be using the evolving Pharo environment and tools not just now, but in 10 years, in 20 years. I see no other tools (outside of the Smalltalk world) that have this kind of vision. This is best served by contributing to the environment and the tools in Pharo. Rather than doing what might be expedient in the here and now. It affects my here and nows in the future in a more profitable and productive way. Now there are times when venturing outside of Pharo is required. And when that time occurs, we need to be exceptionally well able to do so. And I see great hope on that front. But when we do not need to venture outside of Pharo. Those of us who believe in the vision of Pharo are much more highly advantaged by contributing to the tools in this community. Than to looks outside the community for tools which my momentarily meet a need. I think adding footnotes to Pillar is a great idea. I am not ready to do so. I am not a qualified Pillar user yet. But when I am, I would not hesitate to add it to Pillar and improve the tool of the environment I prefer to use. Just my 2 cents. It is worth what you paid for it. :) Shalom. Jimmie

Dec. 28, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] what is Pharo's mission statement? (was Re: Transcendental #new (was Re: why Pillar))

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 28 Dec 2015, at 19:11, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I got you, stephano. I do not wish to be banned. > > Leaving aside established spiritual traditions, but picking out the pattern for exploration, what would you say the meta-meme of Pharo is? In other words, what is the mission statement? This would help me grasp the motivations of the community and is not a meaningless exercise for the community, from a leadership development perspective.. http://pharo.org/about https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/30434/PharoVision.pdf In an image, you can also do World Menu > Help > Pharo Zen > best, > > robert > > > On 12/28/2015 12:01 PM, stepharo wrote: >> To conclude this thread, Robert I suggest that you stay on a technical discussion. >> Do not force us to ban you (we will do it if you continue) because people >> are distracted. >> Most of us do not understand all these spiritual points and do not want to >> read about them in such mailing-lists. >> >> Stef >> > > -- > Robert > . .. ... ^,^ > >

Dec. 28, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Transcendental #new (was Re: why Pillar)

by Robert Withers

On 12/28/2015 01:00 PM, Martin BÃ¤hr wrote: > Excerpts from Ben Coman's message of 2015-12-28 12:52:02 +0100: >> I'm quite comfortable with spirituality in the right context. Its >> just a *distraction* from the technical content. Your posts have >> interesting technical questions but the spiritual padding obfuscates >> them such that I can't understand what you are asking and makes me >> feel unqualified to any answer - so can only ignore such posts. But >> actually I don't like doing so, thus I sought to advise you in a >> concise way that did not pollute the mail list too much. I'm sure >> others in the community are in the same boat, so really you are >> narrowing your opportunity for useful responses from the community. > i'd like to second that. robert, the problem is that we are unfamiliar with the > terminology you are using. comparing pharo to religious concepts can be > interesting, but to make such a comparison, it would be necessary to explain > why such a comparison is relevant and what pharo users can gain from it. and > explain what each of the concepts are, in plain words. Pharo may benefit from a broad analogy. It may help to attract new users. But I got you. I will find a separate medium for explicitly spiritual. The meta-memes I would like to keep in scope here, with relevant limits, related to interactive fiction and overlay semantic proxies to color technical differently. Vampires and mummies, perhaps! Just kidding. :) best, robert > >>> I don't seem to have a problem nor am I breaking any "rules" I am aware of > you are breaking the rule of missing or loosing your audience. > >> Interesting that you take such an adversarial position to a polite >> request. Religion is divisive and any particular doctrine can >> alienate community members of some other doctrine > religion should not be divisive. > if religion becomes a cause of dislike, hatred, division, it is better to be > without it[1]. > > my personal corollary: if talking about religion leads to dislike, then i stop > talking about it. > > greetings, martin. > [1|`Abduâl-BahÃ¡] > -- Robert . .. ... ^,^

Dec. 28, 2015

what is Pharo's mission statement? (was Re: Transcendental #new (was Re: why Pillar))

by Robert Withers

I got you, stephano. I do not wish to be banned. Leaving aside established spiritual traditions, but picking out the pattern for exploration, what would you say the meta-meme of Pharo is? In other words, what is the mission statement? This would help me grasp the motivations of the community and is not a meaningless exercise for the community, from a leadership development perspective.. best, robert On 12/28/2015 12:01 PM, stepharo wrote: > To conclude this thread, Robert I suggest that you stay on a technical > discussion. > Do not force us to ban you (we will do it if you continue) because people > are distracted. > Most of us do not understand all these spiritual points and do not > want to > read about them in such mailing-lists. > > Stef > -- Robert . .. ... ^,^

Dec. 28, 2015

Pharo 5: Bug in removing key combinations

by Johan Fabry

Hi all, Miguel and I found a bug in removing key combinations on a morph. Now they are global, while in Pharo 4 this was not the case. Consider the following code: | morph | morph := RubScrolledTextMorph new. (morph textArea) removeKeyCombination: $s command; removeKeyCombination: $s control; on: $s command do: [morph flash ]; on: $s control do: [morph flash ]. morph openInWorld. In the morph, cmd-s will cause a flash, as expected. However in other windows (or browsers and playgrounds least) the original shortcut is lost, only a s character is added to the text field. I did not see it on fogbugz so I would like to announce it here before I open a case, in case (heh) I missed it. So the question: is this a known bug? ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD and RyCh labs - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Dec. 28, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Transcendental #new (was Re: why Pillar)

by Martin BÃ¤hr

Excerpts from Ben Coman's message of 2015-12-28 12:52:02 +0100: > I'm quite comfortable with spirituality in the right context. Its > just a *distraction* from the technical content. Your posts have > interesting technical questions but the spiritual padding obfuscates > them such that I can't understand what you are asking and makes me > feel unqualified to any answer - so can only ignore such posts. But > actually I don't like doing so, thus I sought to advise you in a > concise way that did not pollute the mail list too much. I'm sure > others in the community are in the same boat, so really you are > narrowing your opportunity for useful responses from the community. i'd like to second that. robert, the problem is that we are unfamiliar with the terminology you are using. comparing pharo to religious concepts can be interesting, but to make such a comparison, it would be necessary to explain why such a comparison is relevant and what pharo users can gain from it. and explain what each of the concepts are, in plain words. > > I don't seem to have a problem nor am I breaking any "rules" I am aware of you are breaking the rule of missing or loosing your audience. > Interesting that you take such an adversarial position to a polite > request. Religion is divisive and any particular doctrine can > alienate community members of some other doctrine religion should not be divisive. if religion becomes a cause of dislike, hatred, division, it is better to be without it[1]. my personal corollary: if talking about religion leads to dislike, then i stop talking about it. greetings, martin. [1|`Abduâl-BahÃ¡] -- eKita - the online platform for your entire academic life -- chief engineer eKita.co pike programmer pike.lysator.liu.se caudium.net societyserver.org secretary beijinglug.org mentor fossasia.org foresight developer foresightlinux.org realss.com unix sysadmin Martin BÃ¤hr working in china http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/

Dec. 28, 2015