December 2015 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] which FFI to use

by Damien Cassou

On December 26, 2015 8:53:47 AM GMT+01:00, "SaÅ¡a JaniÅ¡ka" <gour(a)atmarama.com> wrote: >Considering that I use x86_64 Linux, I wonder if there is some >possibility to call 64bit C library or I'd have to compile it as 32bit? You can only call 32bits libraries. Mainstream Linux distributions have both 32 and 64 so there is no theoretical problem here. The only problem is that it makes installation harder unless you package your app with distribution-specific tools. >I did watch "The good, the bad and the ugly" presentation from >PharoDAYS-2015, but I'm not sure what is the current status and whether >WIP: FFI is ready to test? (I use V5.0 image)? The Nativeboost calls should continue working in Pharo 5 and beyond -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without losing enthusiasm." --Winston Churchill

Dec. 26, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] example of stand-alone desktop app

by Damien Cassou

On December 25, 2015 11:17:01 AM GMT+01:00, "SaÅ¡a JaniÅ¡ka" <gour(a)atmarama.com> wrote: >Hello, > >I've decided to end my search for an appropriate language/environment >in >order to write open-surce multi-platform with Pharo. :-)Â > >Playing a bit with 5.0 image, watching Dimitris' tutorial series, >reading several articles (I like Richard's Smalltalk-Talk), subscribed >to the mailing lists...convinced me that Smalltalk/Pharo is so much >refreshing environment to code in comparison with the pale setup >present >in som many other statically-compiled languages which I was >exploring/evaluating, not to speak about the fact that with Pharo one >gets complete setup at once without the need for tedious work of >bringing editor+other tools together. > >I'm aware that Pharo (Smalltalk) are different and I really like its >development environment, but wonder about deploying. > >There is old thread from 2013 providing some help about deploying >desktop app, but I wonder if something has changed since then making >the >whole process somewhat more smooth? > >I run Debian (Sid) where I'll do all my coding, but would like to >provide versions of my desktop app for both Windows and Mac OS-es. > >Any hint how to proceed? The PharoLauncher is a desktop app with a Windows installer, with a MacOS drag&Drop window, and with Unix distribution-dependent packages. Useful URLs: http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/PharoLauncher https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-ci/tree/master/ci-jobs/pharo https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/view/all/job/Launcher/ -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without losing enthusiasm." --Winston Churchill

Dec. 26, 2015

which FFI to use

by SaÅ¡a JaniÅ¡ka

Hello, before jumping deeper into GUI waters, I'd like to play a bit with calling 3rd party C library which I'll need for my project. Considering that I use x86_64 Linux, I wonder if there is some possibility to call 64bit C library or I'd have to compile it as 32bit? I did watch "The good, the bad and the ugly" presentation from PharoDAYS-2015, but I'm not sure what is the current status and whether WIP: FFI is ready to test? (I use V5.0 image)? Sincerely, Gour -- As fire is covered by smoke, as a mirror is covered by dust, or as the embryo is covered by the womb, the living entity is similarly covered by different degrees of this lust.

Dec. 26, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] why Pillar

by SaÅ¡a JaniÅ¡ka

On Pet, 2015-12-25 at 15:59 -0500, Robert Withers wrote: Hello Robert, > Welcome to Pharo! Â I view use of Pharo (squeak) as a knowledge > sacrifice eliminating bondage to Karma. This is not the mainstream and > a good thing too. Nice comparison...although, being at the beginning I still do not understand/see it as a sacrifice, but can feel it is liberating. > As an example, where is the root implementation of #new defined? Hint: > it is close to Pharo's arupa-brahma-loka, the highest planes. ;) :-) > Hare hare and Merry Christmas, Haribol and Happy New Year! --Â As a lamp in a windless place does not waver, so the transcendentalist, whose mind is controlled, remains always steady in his meditation on the transcendent self.

Dec. 26, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] example of stand-alone desktop app

by Dimitris Chloupis

It's possible if releases are published / committed in a Github repo. It can even include VM and all other dependencies. As a matter of facts this code can work for even the updating Pharo itself completely bypassing Pharolauncher. GitHub and git can easily handle binary files of any size. On Fri, 25 Dec 2015 at 21:52, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > On Sat, Dec 26, 2015 at 3:01 AM, Dimitris Chloupis > <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I am on holidays to at London for Christmas with no direct access to my > > machine. > > > > But you can get a very good idea how to do what you want by taking a > look at > > standalone Pharo apps like Phratch and Dr Geo . The good news is that is > > both very easy and extremely flexible. You can also change the icon of > the > > app and and the name of the Pharo executable to make the user completely > > unaware officials Pharo existence. You can also add squeak to your google > > searches because they have been several posts about this in the squeak > > mailing list . Pharo is incompatible with squeak but it's still a fork of > > squeak so there is a lot of common ground. > > > > After that you can start removing packages you don't need, Pharo is in > the > > process of of being modularlized so that is easy to start with a skeleton > > image. If you are in need of a specific Pharo library choosing Cuis > which is > > also a squeak fork is simple and much lighter than Pharo image. Squeak , > > Pharo and Cuis share the same VMs. > > > > Las but not least if you are on Windows there has been a thread on our > list > > on how to make window installers for Pharo apps the easy way. You may > want > > to google that too, I think Damien made a guide about it . > > > > We can go on and on and on how much Pharo can be customized. I even > recently > > made an auto update functionality for me Pharo project ChronosManager > which > > detects if the github repository has a new release available and > downloads > > it so that the user use always the latest stable release without a need > to > > worry about it or do anything about it ;) > > Cool. Is that something possible to extract? It would be nice to see > such added to PharoLauncher. > cheers -ben > >

Dec. 26, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] example of stand-alone desktop app

by stepharo

There is an auto update in Pharo. This is the one we use for building it. Have a look at the way the script loader is built. It fetches a numbered collection of cs and compares their number with the current number of the image and load the delta. stef Le 25/12/15 22:50, Ben Coman a Ã©crit : > On Sat, Dec 26, 2015 at 3:01 AM, Dimitris Chloupis > <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> I am on holidays to at London for Christmas with no direct access to my >> machine. >> >> But you can get a very good idea how to do what you want by taking a look at >> standalone Pharo apps like Phratch and Dr Geo . The good news is that is >> both very easy and extremely flexible. You can also change the icon of the >> app and and the name of the Pharo executable to make the user completely >> unaware officials Pharo existence. You can also add squeak to your google >> searches because they have been several posts about this in the squeak >> mailing list . Pharo is incompatible with squeak but it's still a fork of >> squeak so there is a lot of common ground. >> >> After that you can start removing packages you don't need, Pharo is in the >> process of of being modularlized so that is easy to start with a skeleton >> image. If you are in need of a specific Pharo library choosing Cuis which is >> also a squeak fork is simple and much lighter than Pharo image. Squeak , >> Pharo and Cuis share the same VMs. >> >> Las but not least if you are on Windows there has been a thread on our list >> on how to make window installers for Pharo apps the easy way. You may want >> to google that too, I think Damien made a guide about it . >> >> We can go on and on and on how much Pharo can be customized. I even recently >> made an auto update functionality for me Pharo project ChronosManager which >> detects if the github repository has a new release available and downloads >> it so that the user use always the latest stable release without a need to >> worry about it or do anything about it ;) > Cool. Is that something possible to extract? It would be nice to see > such added to PharoLauncher. > cheers -ben > >

Dec. 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] example of stand-alone desktop app

by stepharo

>> After that you can start removing packages you don't need, Pharo is in >> the process of of being modularlized so that is easy to start with a >> skeleton image. > The modularization process is going within V5.0? Yes and it started from day one. We are continuously working on it. It is just a daunting task. We changed a lot of design decision to support a modular system (such as settings) and we will continue to do. And I can tell you that it will pay off for real :) People only look at the top of the iceberg but below we are working a lot (like new way of expressing start up dependencies). >> If you are in need of a specific Pharo library choosing Cuis which is >> also a squeak fork is simple and much lighter than Pharo image. Squeak >> , Pharo and Cuis share the same VMs. > I do not mind the size of the image since most software written in other > programming languages is also usually quite bloated. > > Moreover, it seesm Cuis is not so actively developed as Pharo, so I tend > to focus on staying with Pharo. People are fun. They want excellent tools like GSpotter but not their cost :). For your information we are working on a bootstrap and during our experience we got a small core in 80k :) So once the bootstrap will be ready for Pharo 50 we will start to build Pharo incrementally from this core. So yes Pharo is moving and our goal is to change the programmer experience. > Well, I only run Linux (Debian), but in order to produce installer for > Windows, I might use Windows under vbox, although there is slight > problem - the last license of Windows which I own is for XP. :-) > > In any case, I'm excited to explore the world of Pharo. ;) Super :) > > > Sincerely, > Gour > > -- > One who is not disturbed in mind even amidst the threefold > miseries or elated when there is happiness, and who is free > from attachment, fear and anger, is called a sage of steady mind. > > http://www.atmarama.net | Hlapicina (Croatia) | GPG: 52B5C810 > > -- > The embodied soul may be restricted from sense enjoyment, > though the taste for sense objects remains. But, ceasing > such engagements by experiencing a higher taste, > he is fixed in consciousness. > > http://www.atmarama.net | Hlapicina (Croatia) | GPG: 52B5C810 > > -- > The embodied soul may be restricted from sense enjoyment, > though the taste for sense objects remains. But, ceasing > such engagements by experiencing a higher taste, > he is fixed in consciousness. > > http://www.atmarama.net | Hlapicina (Croatia) | GPG: 52B5C810 > > -- > An intelligent person does not take part in the sources of misery, > which are due to contact with the material senses. O son of KuntÄ«, > such pleasures have a beginning and an end, and so the wise man does > not delight in them. > > http://www.atmarama.net | Hlapicina (Croatia) | GPG: 52B5C810

Dec. 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] example of stand-alone desktop app

by Ben Coman

On Sat, Dec 26, 2015 at 3:01 AM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I am on holidays to at London for Christmas with no direct access to my > machine. > > But you can get a very good idea how to do what you want by taking a look at > standalone Pharo apps like Phratch and Dr Geo . The good news is that is > both very easy and extremely flexible. You can also change the icon of the > app and and the name of the Pharo executable to make the user completely > unaware officials Pharo existence. You can also add squeak to your google > searches because they have been several posts about this in the squeak > mailing list . Pharo is incompatible with squeak but it's still a fork of > squeak so there is a lot of common ground. > > After that you can start removing packages you don't need, Pharo is in the > process of of being modularlized so that is easy to start with a skeleton > image. If you are in need of a specific Pharo library choosing Cuis which is > also a squeak fork is simple and much lighter than Pharo image. Squeak , > Pharo and Cuis share the same VMs. > > Las but not least if you are on Windows there has been a thread on our list > on how to make window installers for Pharo apps the easy way. You may want > to google that too, I think Damien made a guide about it . > > We can go on and on and on how much Pharo can be customized. I even recently > made an auto update functionality for me Pharo project ChronosManager which > detects if the github repository has a new release available and downloads > it so that the user use always the latest stable release without a need to > worry about it or do anything about it ;) Cool. Is that something possible to extract? It would be nice to see such added to PharoLauncher. cheers -ben

Dec. 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] example of stand-alone desktop app

by Dimitris Chloupis

Yes exactly the version is returned by the class. Obviously that should increase with each new release but for me at least that's sensible coding. I was also considering a better scheme for the periodical checks so your code could help me there because I don't want more than one check per month. So it seems we can help each other ;) On Fri, 25 Dec 2015 at 19:19, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand < hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> wrote: > 2015-12-25 14:37 GMT-03:00 Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>: > >> As I said I away but if you are in hurry you can see the code here >> >> >> https://github.com/kilon/ChronosManager/blob/master/ChronosManager.package/… >> >> > Thank you Dimitris, no rush for this. > > >> The idea is that the class carries the current release of the project >> that is installed while the latest release is read online from inside a >> release file which is a simple text file with release information written >> in human readable format. >> > > So each method/class change will increase number to a new class version? > > >> Regex is used to detect a v0.1 pattern and top most find is used for >> fetching the number of latest release. Autoupdate also checks internet >> connection with github so the user never see an error in case of failure to >> connect instead it just does not update. >> >> > Ok, the AppUpdater uses periodicity to set the frequency of updates. I > will try to generalize to handle internet connection and other repositories > like GitHub. > > >> Next step will be to clean up and delete any previously downloaded files >> via autoupdate. This way image folder won't grow in size in each autoupdate. >> UIManager can be used to alert the user for a new update and ask for >> permission to download it. There is no reason for git to be installed for >> autoupdate to work , only thing needed is a normal Pharo image. >> >> > Cool :) > > >> When I return to Athens I will improve it further and document it. >> > > > Have a nice trip. > > Cheers, > > HernÃ¡n > > >> >> On Fri, 25 Dec 2015 at 17:05, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand < >> hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi Dimitris, >>> >>> 2015-12-25 13:01 GMT-03:00 Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>: >>> >>>> I am on holidays to at London for Christmas with no direct access to my >>>> machine. >>>> >>>> But you can get a very good idea how to do what you want by taking a >>>> look at standalone Pharo apps like Phratch and Dr Geo . The good news is >>>> that is both very easy and extremely flexible. You can also change the icon >>>> of the app and and the name of the Pharo executable to make the user >>>> completely unaware officials Pharo existence. You can also add squeak to >>>> your google searches because they have been several posts about this in the >>>> squeak mailing list . Pharo is incompatible with squeak but it's still a >>>> fork of squeak so there is a lot of common ground. >>>> >>>> After that you can start removing packages you don't need, Pharo is in >>>> the process of of being modularlized so that is easy to start with a >>>> skeleton image. If you are in need of a specific Pharo library choosing >>>> Cuis which is also a squeak fork is simple and much lighter than Pharo >>>> image. Squeak , Pharo and Cuis share the same VMs. >>>> >>>> Las but not least if you are on Windows there has been a thread on our >>>> list on how to make window installers for Pharo apps the easy way. You may >>>> want to google that too, I think Damien made a guide about it . >>>> >>>> We can go on and on and on how much Pharo can be customized. I even >>>> recently made an auto update functionality for me Pharo project >>>> ChronosManager which detects if the github repository has a new release >>>> available and downloads it so that the user use always the latest stable >>>> release without a need to worry about it or do anything about it ;) >>>> >>> >>> If you don't mind to share, I could try to integrate it in >>> ApplicationUpdater >>> >>> http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~hernan/ApplicationUpdater >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> HernÃ¡n >>> >>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, 25 Dec 2015 at 13:42, SaÅ¡a JaniÅ¡ka <gour(a)atmarama.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Pet, 2015-12-25 at 11:48 +0100, Cyril Ferlicot wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > First, be careful with Pharo 5 because this is an alpha. There is >>>>> high >>>>> > chance that some things breake. If you find some bug you can report >>>>> it >>>>> > on pharo's fogbugz (the link is on Pharo website). >>>>> >>>>> OK. No problem. >>>>> >>>>> > For the deployment you have a different virtual machine for >>>>> > OSX/Linux/windows. >>>>> >>>>> That's clear. :-) >>>>> >>>>> > For now the VM is only 32b, this can create some trouble for Linux >>>>> > users but the 64b VM should come soon! :) maybe for Pharo 6? >>>>> >>>>> Pharo-5 is scheduled for the 1Q/2016? >>>>> >>>>> > For now there is not a lot of classic application. I think you can >>>>> > take a look at Dr Geo. >>>>> >>>>> That one looks interesting. Thank you for that. >>>>> >>>>> > If you want to do open source you can use the same method that >>>>> > PharoLauncher that open a window in full screen and let a setting for >>>>> > developers to be able to get a classic Pharo environment. But the >>>>> user >>>>> > might have acess to the code through GTSpotter or Morph's halos. >>>>> >>>>> I plan to do open-source, but would like to hide code and other dev >>>>> tools in order not to confus end-users. >>>>> >>>>> > If you don't want the user to get an acess to the code by any mean >>>>> you >>>>> > have to cut everything by hand for now. (Disable spotter, disable >>>>> > halo, disable world menu, disable the debugger...). >>>>> >>>>> OK, it means it's possible...Will explore and/or ask. ;) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > I would like to have a way to lock an image directly from Pharo >>>>> >>>>> +1 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > Welcome to Pharo and merry Christmas! >>>>> >>>>> Thank you! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> Gour >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Perform your prescribed duty, for doing so is better than not >>>>> working. One cannot even maintain one's physical body without work. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>

Dec. 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] why Pillar

by Robert Withers

Sorry, that was meant to be private. --- robert > On Dec 25, 2015, at 3:59 PM, Robert Withers <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > >> On Dec 25, 2015, at 1:58 PM, SaÅ¡a JaniÅ¡ka <gour(a)atmarama.com> wrote: >> -- >> As a blazing fire turns firewood to ashes, O Arjuna, so does the >> fire of knowledge burn to ashes all reactions to material activities. > > --- > The knowledge sacrifice is superior > To any material sacrifice, O Arjuna. > Because, all actions in their entirety > Culminate in knowledge. > --- > > Dear SaÅ¡a, > Welcome to Pharo! I view use of Pharo (squeak) as a knowledge sacrifice eliminating bondage to Karma. This is not the mainstream and a good thing too. > > As an example, where is the root implementation of #new defined? Hint: it is close to Pharo's arupa-brahma-loka, the highest planes. ;) > > Hare hare and Merry Christmas, > Robert > > >> >> >> >> >>

Dec. 25, 2015