October 2015 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Auto Proxy and Pharo

by Volkert

;-) I know ... i know .... i will ask for it .... On 05.10.2015 20:31, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: >> On 05 Oct 2015, at 19:28, Volkert <volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de> wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> at work we are using a "auto proxy configuration". Your proxy definition in your app looks like "http://<server>:<ip>/proxy.pac. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_auto-config. >> >> Any idea, how to use this proxy definition with Pharo? Would be terrible, if i can not use Pharo here at work. >> >> BW, >> Volkert > From http://curl.askapache.com/faq.html#Does_curl_support_Javascript_or > > <quote> > > 3.14 Does curl support Javascript or PAC (automated proxy config)? > > Many web pages do magic stuff using embedded Javascript. Curl and libcurl > have no built-in support for that, so it will be treated just like any other > contents. > > .pac files are a netscape invention and are sometimes used by organizations > to allow them to differentiate which proxies to use. The .pac contents is > just a Javascript program that gets invoked by the browser and that returns > the name of the proxy to connect to. Since curl doesn't support Javascript, > it can't support .pac proxy configuration either. > > Some workarounds usually suggested to overcome this Javascript dependency: > > - Depending on the Javascript complexity, write up a script that > translates it to another language and execute that. > > - Read the Javascript code and rewrite the same logic in another language. > > - Implement a Javascript interpreter, people have successfully used the > Mozilla Javascript engine in the past. > > - Ask your admins to stop this, for a static proxy setup or similar. > > </quote> > > If even curl does not support it .... > > I would suggest asking your local sysadmin for a direct proxy host:port

Oct. 5, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Auto Proxy and Pharo

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 05 Oct 2015, at 19:28, Volkert <volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de> wrote: > > Dear all, > > at work we are using a "auto proxy configuration". Your proxy definition in your app looks like "http://<server>:<ip>/proxy.pac. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_auto-config. > > Any idea, how to use this proxy definition with Pharo? Would be terrible, if i can not use Pharo here at work. > > BW, > Volkert >From http://curl.askapache.com/faq.html#Does_curl_support_Javascript_or <quote> 3.14 Does curl support Javascript or PAC (automated proxy config)? Many web pages do magic stuff using embedded Javascript. Curl and libcurl have no built-in support for that, so it will be treated just like any other contents. .pac files are a netscape invention and are sometimes used by organizations to allow them to differentiate which proxies to use. The .pac contents is just a Javascript program that gets invoked by the browser and that returns the name of the proxy to connect to. Since curl doesn't support Javascript, it can't support .pac proxy configuration either. Some workarounds usually suggested to overcome this Javascript dependency: - Depending on the Javascript complexity, write up a script that translates it to another language and execute that. - Read the Javascript code and rewrite the same logic in another language. - Implement a Javascript interpreter, people have successfully used the Mozilla Javascript engine in the past. - Ask your admins to stop this, for a static proxy setup or similar. </quote> If even curl does not support it .... I would suggest asking your local sysadmin for a direct proxy host:port

Oct. 5, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo family

by Adam

Both would be good. I have find catalog You mentioned, but it lacks grouping and also it has too many projects. It would be good to have structured catalog of almost all projects. But I think that map of main projects will be also very useful especially to newcommers. Adam. Dne Po 5. ÅÃjna 2015 19:58:48, Esteban Lorenzano napsal(a): > well, we have http://catalog.pharo.org > who was there as a temporal solution who does not seems to be going away > this yearâ¦ so it can be enhanced to provide grouping/better links/etc. > easily, I think. > > Esteban > > > On 05 Oct 2015, at 19:38, Volkert <volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de> wrote: > > > > I would be happy if Pharo as something like this > > > > https://github.com/golang/go/wiki/Projects > > > > or > > > > this https://github.com/h4cc/awesome-elixir. > > > > That is not exactly what you have in mind, but I think this can be > > combined with your meta information. > > > > BW, > > Volkert > > > > On 05.10.2015 00:10, Adam wrote: > >> I move the map into github in textual file for completing it before > >> drawing > >> it: https://github.com/AdamSadovsky/pharo-family > >> - Zinc is now inside > >> - More circles can be added. I generalized it under "position", so You > >> can > >> change it into something else then "inside image". I dont even know what > >> bootstrap is (it has to do something with the loading probably, but why > >> it is important to know from this point of view). > >> > >> Adam. > >> > >> Dne Ne 4. ÅÃjna 2015 20:26:57, Ben Coman napsal(a): > >>> Interesting idea. Some feedback: > >>> * "Zinc" should probably be inside the circle > >>> * "SUnit" seems to have greater emphasis, such that for a moment it > >>> seemed that this was the label for everything in the circle. > >>> * Later it might be interesting to have several circles, showing what > >>> is in bootstrap and the normal Image. > >>> > >>> cheers -ben > >>> > >>> On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 7:54 AM, <adam(a)234.cz> wrote: > >>>> Hello, > >>>> > >>>> I just did a quick scatch of some projects, frameworks and concepts > >>>> related to Pharo. I did it because I em confused of the cloud of > >>>> projects > >>>> around Pharo and what thay can do. > >>>> > >>>> Maybe somewhere already exists similar list. Maybe in textual form. If > >>>> so, > >>>> please, post it to me. > >>>> > >>>> Image starts in the center where Pharo logo is. Around it, there should > >>>> be > >>>> a core of Pharo (included in the image). Outside of this core, there > >>>> are > >>>> other important projects and frameworks. > >>>> > >>>> Text in ovals should represent main concepts and around them there are > >>>> names or logos of projects that are related to them. > >>>> > >>>> Text in rectangles should represents main attributes of nearby > >>>> project. > >>>> > >>>> I would also like to draw bigger text or logos of projects that are > >>>> very > >>>> important (or enterprise ready...?). > >>>> > >>>> As you can see, it lacks lots of things (mostly because I draw it very > >>>> quick and did not study every projects and every book about Pharo). But > >>>> If anybody have anything to contribute, I will be happy to include > >>>> them > >>>> to this map. > >>>> > >>>> Maybe it will be also better to create this picture through some > >>>> visualization based on descriptive syntax of this hierarchy map (like > >>>> mind-mapping) :) > >>>> > >>>> Have a nice day, > >>>> > >>>> Adam.

Oct. 5, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo family

by Esteban Lorenzano

well, we have http://catalog.pharo.org who was there as a temporal solution who does not seems to be going away this yearâ¦ so it can be enhanced to provide grouping/better links/etc. easily, I think. Esteban > On 05 Oct 2015, at 19:38, Volkert <volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de> wrote: > > I would be happy if Pharo as something like this > > https://github.com/golang/go/wiki/Projects > > or > > this https://github.com/h4cc/awesome-elixir. > > That is not exactly what you have in mind, but I think this can be combined with your meta information. > > BW, > Volkert > > On 05.10.2015 00:10, Adam wrote: >> I move the map into github in textual file for completing it before drawing >> it: https://github.com/AdamSadovsky/pharo-family >> - Zinc is now inside >> - More circles can be added. I generalized it under "position", so You can >> change it into something else then "inside image". I dont even know what >> bootstrap is (it has to do something with the loading probably, but why it is >> important to know from this point of view). >> >> Adam. >> >> Dne Ne 4. ÅÃjna 2015 20:26:57, Ben Coman napsal(a): >>> Interesting idea. Some feedback: >>> * "Zinc" should probably be inside the circle >>> * "SUnit" seems to have greater emphasis, such that for a moment it >>> seemed that this was the label for everything in the circle. >>> * Later it might be interesting to have several circles, showing what >>> is in bootstrap and the normal Image. >>> >>> cheers -ben >>> >>> On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 7:54 AM, <adam(a)234.cz> wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> I just did a quick scatch of some projects, frameworks and concepts >>>> related to Pharo. I did it because I em confused of the cloud of projects >>>> around Pharo and what thay can do. >>>> >>>> Maybe somewhere already exists similar list. Maybe in textual form. If so, >>>> please, post it to me. >>>> >>>> Image starts in the center where Pharo logo is. Around it, there should be >>>> a core of Pharo (included in the image). Outside of this core, there are >>>> other important projects and frameworks. >>>> >>>> Text in ovals should represent main concepts and around them there are >>>> names or logos of projects that are related to them. >>>> >>>> Text in rectangles should represents main attributes of nearby project. >>>> >>>> I would also like to draw bigger text or logos of projects that are very >>>> important (or enterprise ready...?). >>>> >>>> As you can see, it lacks lots of things (mostly because I draw it very >>>> quick and did not study every projects and every book about Pharo). But >>>> If anybody have anything to contribute, I will be happy to include them >>>> to this map. >>>> >>>> Maybe it will be also better to create this picture through some >>>> visualization based on descriptive syntax of this hierarchy map (like >>>> mind-mapping) :) >>>> >>>> Have a nice day, >>>> >>>> Adam. >> > >

Oct. 5, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo family

by Volkert

I would be happy if Pharo as something like this https://github.com/golang/go/wiki/Projects or this https://github.com/h4cc/awesome-elixir. That is not exactly what you have in mind, but I think this can be combined with your meta information. BW, Volkert On 05.10.2015 00:10, Adam wrote: > I move the map into github in textual file for completing it before drawing > it: https://github.com/AdamSadovsky/pharo-family > - Zinc is now inside > - More circles can be added. I generalized it under "position", so You can > change it into something else then "inside image". I dont even know what > bootstrap is (it has to do something with the loading probably, but why it is > important to know from this point of view). > > Adam. > > Dne Ne 4. ÅÃjna 2015 20:26:57, Ben Coman napsal(a): >> Interesting idea. Some feedback: >> * "Zinc" should probably be inside the circle >> * "SUnit" seems to have greater emphasis, such that for a moment it >> seemed that this was the label for everything in the circle. >> * Later it might be interesting to have several circles, showing what >> is in bootstrap and the normal Image. >> >> cheers -ben >> >> On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 7:54 AM, <adam(a)234.cz> wrote: >>> Hello, >>> >>> I just did a quick scatch of some projects, frameworks and concepts >>> related to Pharo. I did it because I em confused of the cloud of projects >>> around Pharo and what thay can do. >>> >>> Maybe somewhere already exists similar list. Maybe in textual form. If so, >>> please, post it to me. >>> >>> Image starts in the center where Pharo logo is. Around it, there should be >>> a core of Pharo (included in the image). Outside of this core, there are >>> other important projects and frameworks. >>> >>> Text in ovals should represent main concepts and around them there are >>> names or logos of projects that are related to them. >>> >>> Text in rectangles should represents main attributes of nearby project. >>> >>> I would also like to draw bigger text or logos of projects that are very >>> important (or enterprise ready...?). >>> >>> As you can see, it lacks lots of things (mostly because I draw it very >>> quick and did not study every projects and every book about Pharo). But >>> If anybody have anything to contribute, I will be happy to include them >>> to this map. >>> >>> Maybe it will be also better to create this picture through some >>> visualization based on descriptive syntax of this hierarchy map (like >>> mind-mapping) :) >>> >>> Have a nice day, >>> >>> Adam. >

Oct. 5, 2015

Auto Proxy and Pharo

by Volkert

Dear all, at work we are using a "auto proxy configuration". Your proxy definition in your app looks like "http://<server>:<ip>/proxy.pac. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_auto-config. Any idea, how to use this proxy definition with Pharo? Would be terrible, if i can not use Pharo here at work. BW, Volkert

Oct. 5, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Exploring Pier

by Jimmie Houchin

Hello Offray, My apologies for the delay in reply. I have been on holiday. Thanks for the suggestions. I am pretty much wanting to stick with Pharo solutions. I want to use and contribute to the Pharo ecosystem. I believe the more we use our own tools and contribute toward the ecosystem the better our tools and the ecosystem will be. In Pharo I can possibly offer an occasional bug fix, contribute to documentation or tests. And yes, the other solutions do offer that as well as they are open source. But the bar is much higher. I now have to understand their ecosystems, languages, and development cultures of a variety of tools. In Pharo I have Pharo/Smalltalk. Even a simple user can often contribute in simple ways. Even as a simple user of a Pharo tool. I can submit issues, fix simple issues, improve method or class comments, etc. As I learn the Pharo tools and ecosystem I continually improve my ability to take care of myself and also contribute to the community. I think Pharo is the most user empowering environment I have found. Sure I can find lots and lots of other quality tools in other languages. But each is their own island. And depending on how broadly I spread the net. Different languages, different cultures, different licenses, all independent of each other. I much prefer the Pharo ecosystem and culture. It is home. I know others who like the other tools, and multiplicity of choice. And they feel comfortable there. Choice is nice. Pharo is mine. Thanks again for suggestions and for a view on how others approach problems and their solutions. That is always available as inspiration even within Pharo. I take a look at your stuff. Jimmie On 09/28/2015 09:03 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas wrote: > Hi Jimmie, > > Some or your searches/needs seem similar to mine. So I will share some > of the stuff I'm using or considering, which is not Pharo/Smalltalk > related and how I plan to connect it with Pharo. > > On markup language and documentation I'm using pandoc[1], which covers > a wide variety of formats (including Html and LaTeX, like Pillar) and > works on Windows, Gnu/Linux and Mac with a pretty portable > installation. I use Zotero[2] integration vÃa BibTeX and Citezen[3] > using Grafoscopio[4], a custom made Pharo interactive documentation > system I'm building to learn smalltalk. On the website generation, I > was a user/promoter of web2py[5] for several year, but recently I'm > migrating towards static site genetators like Nikola[6] and Grav[7] > because I don't need any much else for my web presence. > > [1] http://pandoc.org/ > [2] https://www.zotero.org/ > [3] > http://vst.ensm-douai.fr/ESUG2009Media/uploads/1/citezen-EsugAwards2009.pdf > [4] http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Offray/Grafoscopio > [5] http://web2py.com/ > [6] https://getnikola.com/ > [7] http://getgrav.org/ > > My idea is to build an interface from Grafoscopio to this non-pharo > technologies like static web site generators, so you can use the > interactivity of Pharo/Smalltalk, without having to reinvent the wheel > all the time (at least for wheels yo don't care about). I'm trying to > find the knowledge/time to put this ideas into practice. Maybe you can > consider some of these in your initial overview of the problem and the > solutions. > > Cheers, > > Offray > > On 22/09/15 11:30, Jimmie Houchin wrote: >> I know there are options to Pier. To a certain extent part of the >> purpose of my email was to explore whether or not Pier is a viable >> option and if it has community support that I am not easily seeing. >> >> I want to stick with reasonably well supported options. >> >> I thought the cms and blog parts of Pier looked interesting. This is >> all personal and not for business or public. >> >> I definitely want to learn Pillar as it is required if at some point >> I want to contribute to any of the documentation. And it looks like a >> pretty powerful tool. >> >> I do not have any clearly defined goals which make Pier a >> requirement. The blog and cms like features are possibly reasonably >> implementable in the more currently supported options. And those are >> simply things I am exploring not requiring. >> >> It seems that Doru possibly uses it on the >> http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog site. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Jimmie >> >> On 09/22/2015 02:38 AM, Damien Cassou wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> writes: >>> >>>> I am interested in learning to use Pier. I browsed the mailing list to >>>> learn about current status and documentation. It seems to be pretty >>>> quiet on the mailing lists. >>>> >>>> There seems to be some activity on Smalltalkhub on Pier3. >>> >>> Pillar, the document model and parser of Pier is alive. I need help but >>> the project is definitely not dead as we use it for all books we are >>> writing. >>> >>> The rest of Pier, mainly the web interface, looks rather dead for me as >>> well. >>> >>> Why are you interested in Pier? We might help you find other projects >>> that could suit your needs. >>> >> >> >> > >

Oct. 5, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo family

by Ben Coman

On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 6:10 AM, Adam <adam(a)234.cz> wrote: > I move the map into github in textual file for completing it before drawing > it: https://github.com/AdamSadovsky/pharo-family > - Zinc is now inside > - More circles can be added. I generalized it under "position", so You can > change it into something else then "inside image". I dont even know what > bootstrap is (it has to do something with the loading probably, but why it is > important to know from this point of view). Bootstrap refers to work being done to "bootstrap the core" per item 4.5 of... https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/30434/PharoVision.pdf I had a go at breaking a few bootstrap dependencies... https://www.mail-archive.com/pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org/msg32799.html and at times found myself wondering whether the refactored alternative I was proposing didn't introduce additional dependencies. It would be nice to have some view quick view of which packages are at which level - but revisiting my thoughts, this is probably more low level than you're aiming at, at the project level. cheers -ben > > Adam. > > Dne Ne 4. ÅÃjna 2015 20:26:57, Ben Coman napsal(a): >> Interesting idea. Some feedback: >> * "Zinc" should probably be inside the circle >> * "SUnit" seems to have greater emphasis, such that for a moment it >> seemed that this was the label for everything in the circle. >> * Later it might be interesting to have several circles, showing what >> is in bootstrap and the normal Image. >> >> cheers -ben >> >> On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 7:54 AM, <adam(a)234.cz> wrote: >> > Hello, >> > >> > I just did a quick scatch of some projects, frameworks and concepts >> > related to Pharo. I did it because I em confused of the cloud of projects >> > around Pharo and what thay can do. >> > >> > Maybe somewhere already exists similar list. Maybe in textual form. If so, >> > please, post it to me. >> > >> > Image starts in the center where Pharo logo is. Around it, there should be >> > a core of Pharo (included in the image). Outside of this core, there are >> > other important projects and frameworks. >> > >> > Text in ovals should represent main concepts and around them there are >> > names or logos of projects that are related to them. >> > >> > Text in rectangles should represents main attributes of nearby project. >> > >> > I would also like to draw bigger text or logos of projects that are very >> > important (or enterprise ready...?). >> > >> > As you can see, it lacks lots of things (mostly because I draw it very >> > quick and did not study every projects and every book about Pharo). But >> > If anybody have anything to contribute, I will be happy to include them >> > to this map. >> > >> > Maybe it will be also better to create this picture through some >> > visualization based on descriptive syntax of this hierarchy map (like >> > mind-mapping) :) >> > >> > Have a nice day, >> > >> > Adam. > >

Oct. 5, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Better Code Completion

by Marcus Denker

> On 04 Oct 2015, at 23:53, Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > This is both rant and list of questions/notes/observations... > > ...but first of all: > do Smalltalkers not like code completion? Because the one in Pharo is really poor and not only that nobody is doing anything about it, but also nobody is complaining; this leads me to believe that you either > > a) don't have the manpower (this is true pretty much always, so no complaints here) true. > b) don't care about this that much (since you lived without it for 45 years) > > at least from the lack of complaining to me it seems that b) is more likely scenario... > I think people know that complaining does not helpâ¦ It would be nice to improve this (an 1000 other things, too ;-) Marcus

Oct. 5, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Better Code Completion

by Marcus Denker

> On 05 Oct 2015, at 08:39, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: > > On 04/10/15 23:53, Peter UhnÃ¡k wrote: >> This is both rant and list of questions/notes/observations... >> >> ...but first of all: >> do Smalltalkers not like code completion? Because the one in Pharo is >> really poor and not only that nobody is doing anything about it, *but >> also nobody is complaining*; this leads me to believe that you either >> >> a) don't have the manpower (this is true pretty much always, so no >> complaints here) > > Definitely. > The issue tracker has lots of interesting completion related issues, like https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13124/NECContext-needs-plugin-design > Yes, and we need to change it to use the AST instead of Shoutâ¦ that could simplify it a lot. Marcus

Oct. 5, 2015