October 2015 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and SQLite

by Robert Withers

Thanks to both of you for the links. I appreciate you. Robert On 10/15/2015 02:22 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo wrote: > I haven't used SQLite in Pharo, but I used it in Android. It is a > pretty complete database solution, self contained in a single file > (and a shared library ;-)). > > I already posted the slides of the PgCon where Richard Hipp states > that SQLite is the replacement of fopen() and not of a whole RDBMS: > http://www.pgcon.org/2014/schedule/attachments/319_PGCon2014OpeningKeynote.… > > You already have drivers for it here: > http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/NBSQLite3 > > Regards! > > > > Esteban A. Maringolo > > > 2015-10-15 15:05 GMT-03:00 Robert Withers <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com>: >> Hi Jimmie, >> >> Is this SQlite adaptor you wrote published publicly? I'd definitely like to >> evaluate this technology for my stack. >> >> Thank you, >> Robet >> >> >> On 10/15/2015 01:58 PM, Jimmie Houchin wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I am working on a project for my wife. I initially thought I would keep >>> all my data inside Pharo because it is a simple project and Pharo is >>> great at persistence in the image. >>> >>> But as I pursued the project it felt like I was reinventing the >>> database. So I thought why am I considering working so hard to structure >>> my classes and objects in such a way that I am in effect writing my own >>> database. All of this to avoid using a "real" database. >>> >>> Part of my projects goals is to keep this project contained. I do not >>> want to require my wife or whomever I share this with to have to install >>> anything other than copy or unzip the Pharo folder. No PostgreSQL or >>> MongoDB installs. Keep it simple. >>> >>> This is a goal I have for a lot of my ideas. >>> >>> In my 20+ years of computing and Internet. I have seen lots of >>> applications come and go. >>> (and no, I don't have gray hair, even though I have children older than >>> probably half the people here.) >>> >>> Many years ago, my wife and I made tremendous use out of Apple Works and >>> Microsoft Works. Apple at home and for me Microsoft at work. We loved >>> the ease and simplicity we could throw a database together and just do >>> stuff. It was great. In fact on my work PC I still use weekly and >>> sometimes daily a database I wrote in 1994. I am almost at the point >>> that Windows won't run this ancient MSWorks 4 database. I will have to >>> move my data. >>> >>> Of course these tools aren't the greatest. They have significant >>> limitations, but despite the limitations they were very empowering. >>> >>> My wife started to attempt something similar in LibreOffice but >>> LibreOffice wasn't so simple. It was confusing to her. I briefly looked >>> at LibreOffice but I am not convinced that it is the best or right tool >>> for the job. >>> >>> So that sent me on an adventure to implement this in Pharo. In my >>> learning that I don't want to reinvent the database I have initially >>> settled on using SQLite. SQLite meets my requirements above. It is >>> embedded in my Pharo app and only requires including the database file I >>> create. Very portable and easy to install along with anything else in >>> Pharo. >>> >>> SQLite seems like a very good match and complement to Pharo. A trusted, >>> reliable, external persistence that is as simple and portable as is Pharo. >>> >>> Richard Hipp creator of SQLite has several videos describing how he >>> believes SQLite should be used and should not be used. >>> >>> SQLite: The Database at the Edge of the Network with Dr. Richard Hipp >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jib2AmRb_rk >>> >>> 2014 SouthEast LinuxFest - Richard Hipp - SQLite as an Application File >>> Format >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y_ABXwYtuc >>> >>> The videos are inspirational for using SQLite. I like what he says. I >>> encourage watching. I have watched these and others of his including his >>> anti-git video. >>> I am not knowledgeable about the use of git in Pharo, but I would be >>> interested if anybody has considered and knows the pros and cons of >>> using Fossil instead. I know, it wouldn't get us on GitHub. I may be the >>> only one. But that isn't a biggie for me. >>> TL;DW (didn't watch) >>> Use SQLite for Application File Format for persistence instead of a >>> (zipped) pile of files and you get many benefits. Examples in videos as >>> the wrong way, LibreOffice and git. >>> >>> I think using SQLite like this for Pharo would be an excellent match. We >>> gain all the benefits of SQLite, transactions, ACID. In a tool that is >>> nicely (non)licensed, and is used and trusted generally by most all of >>> the software world. >>> >>> For Pharo this buys us an excellent, simple, equally portable >>> persistence. It also buys us persistence that is trusted by people who >>> don't trust the image for their data. This could possible help with >>> people who explore Pharo but aren't comfortable about image only. Now of >>> course it won't help the Emacs or Vim, ... people. >>> >>> I am exploring the idea of using Pharo and SQLite for what I would have >>> previously used Apple/MS Works database for. At first it would be >>> building the app/project for my wife. And during and after that project >>> generalize some things to make a better out of the box solution for like >>> projects. >>> >>> Thoughts, opinions, ideas, wisdom. Any and all appreciated. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> Jimmie >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >

Oct. 15, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and SQLite

by Jimmie Houchin

Thanks for the reply. When I went to answer Robert, I saw that driver. I will definitely give it a try. I don't find the post with those slides. But I have watched the video. It is a good video. Funny! But I did see the one where you posted about advocacy. But this is why I think that SQLite is a good match for Pharo. Delivering simple, small solutions, portably and easily deployable. Thanks. Jimmie On 10/15/2015 01:22 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo wrote: > I haven't used SQLite in Pharo, but I used it in Android. It is a > pretty complete database solution, self contained in a single file > (and a shared library ;-)). > > I already posted the slides of the PgCon where Richard Hipp states > that SQLite is the replacement of fopen() and not of a whole RDBMS: > http://www.pgcon.org/2014/schedule/attachments/319_PGCon2014OpeningKeynote.… > > You already have drivers for it here: > http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/NBSQLite3 > > Regards! > > > > Esteban A. Maringolo > > > 2015-10-15 15:05 GMT-03:00 Robert Withers <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com>: >> Hi Jimmie, >> >> Is this SQlite adaptor you wrote published publicly? I'd definitely like to >> evaluate this technology for my stack. >> >> Thank you, >> Robet >> >> >> On 10/15/2015 01:58 PM, Jimmie Houchin wrote: >>> Hello, >>> >>> I am working on a project for my wife. I initially thought I would keep >>> all my data inside Pharo because it is a simple project and Pharo is >>> great at persistence in the image. >>> >>> But as I pursued the project it felt like I was reinventing the >>> database. So I thought why am I considering working so hard to structure >>> my classes and objects in such a way that I am in effect writing my own >>> database. All of this to avoid using a "real" database. >>> >>> Part of my projects goals is to keep this project contained. I do not >>> want to require my wife or whomever I share this with to have to install >>> anything other than copy or unzip the Pharo folder. No PostgreSQL or >>> MongoDB installs. Keep it simple. >>> >>> This is a goal I have for a lot of my ideas. >>> >>> In my 20+ years of computing and Internet. I have seen lots of >>> applications come and go. >>> (and no, I don't have gray hair, even though I have children older than >>> probably half the people here.) >>> >>> Many years ago, my wife and I made tremendous use out of Apple Works and >>> Microsoft Works. Apple at home and for me Microsoft at work. We loved >>> the ease and simplicity we could throw a database together and just do >>> stuff. It was great. In fact on my work PC I still use weekly and >>> sometimes daily a database I wrote in 1994. I am almost at the point >>> that Windows won't run this ancient MSWorks 4 database. I will have to >>> move my data. >>> >>> Of course these tools aren't the greatest. They have significant >>> limitations, but despite the limitations they were very empowering. >>> >>> My wife started to attempt something similar in LibreOffice but >>> LibreOffice wasn't so simple. It was confusing to her. I briefly looked >>> at LibreOffice but I am not convinced that it is the best or right tool >>> for the job. >>> >>> So that sent me on an adventure to implement this in Pharo. In my >>> learning that I don't want to reinvent the database I have initially >>> settled on using SQLite. SQLite meets my requirements above. It is >>> embedded in my Pharo app and only requires including the database file I >>> create. Very portable and easy to install along with anything else in >>> Pharo. >>> >>> SQLite seems like a very good match and complement to Pharo. A trusted, >>> reliable, external persistence that is as simple and portable as is Pharo. >>> >>> Richard Hipp creator of SQLite has several videos describing how he >>> believes SQLite should be used and should not be used. >>> >>> SQLite: The Database at the Edge of the Network with Dr. Richard Hipp >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jib2AmRb_rk >>> >>> 2014 SouthEast LinuxFest - Richard Hipp - SQLite as an Application File >>> Format >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y_ABXwYtuc >>> >>> The videos are inspirational for using SQLite. I like what he says. I >>> encourage watching. I have watched these and others of his including his >>> anti-git video. >>> I am not knowledgeable about the use of git in Pharo, but I would be >>> interested if anybody has considered and knows the pros and cons of >>> using Fossil instead. I know, it wouldn't get us on GitHub. I may be the >>> only one. But that isn't a biggie for me. >>> TL;DW (didn't watch) >>> Use SQLite for Application File Format for persistence instead of a >>> (zipped) pile of files and you get many benefits. Examples in videos as >>> the wrong way, LibreOffice and git. >>> >>> I think using SQLite like this for Pharo would be an excellent match. We >>> gain all the benefits of SQLite, transactions, ACID. In a tool that is >>> nicely (non)licensed, and is used and trusted generally by most all of >>> the software world. >>> >>> For Pharo this buys us an excellent, simple, equally portable >>> persistence. It also buys us persistence that is trusted by people who >>> don't trust the image for their data. This could possible help with >>> people who explore Pharo but aren't comfortable about image only. Now of >>> course it won't help the Emacs or Vim, ... people. >>> >>> I am exploring the idea of using Pharo and SQLite for what I would have >>> previously used Apple/MS Works database for. At first it would be >>> building the app/project for my wife. And during and after that project >>> generalize some things to make a better out of the box solution for like >>> projects. >>> >>> Thoughts, opinions, ideas, wisdom. Any and all appreciated. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> Jimmie >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>

Oct. 15, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and SQLite

by Esteban A. Maringolo

Garage's SQLite driver is a clone, albeit outdated, of the NBSQLite3 codebase. So you better stick with NBSQlite3. Esteban A. Maringolo 2015-10-15 15:31 GMT-03:00 Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com>: > I would love to have an independent full featured, sold out to SQLite, > adapter for Pharo. However, I have not written one. > > The one I have installed but yet to try is the one that is included in > Garage. > http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~DBXTalk/Garage > > But while looking at the link above, I see that it is based upon PharoExtras > / NBSQLite3. > http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/NBSQLite3 > > I will have to check on that one and see about going to the source. I was > considering if necessary doing my own FFI later. Might not be required. > > I am not looking for any kind of generic database api to save me from SQL. I > am not looking for being able to switch from SQLite to PostgreSQL. > > I want one that is sold out to being the best way to use SQLite. I don't > want an ORM to save me from SQL. I want sold out opinionated software. :) > > So when I get back to the project, probably next week. I will definitely > look at the NBSQLite3. > > Hopefully one of these two will meet your goals, which may be different than > mine. > > > Jimmie > > > > On 10/15/2015 01:05 PM, Robert Withers wrote: >> >> Hi Jimmie, >> >> Is this SQlite adaptor you wrote published publicly? I'd definitely like >> to evaluate this technology for my stack. >> >> Thank you, >> Robet >> >> On 10/15/2015 01:58 PM, Jimmie Houchin wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I am working on a project for my wife. I initially thought I would keep >>> all my data inside Pharo because it is a simple project and Pharo is >>> great at persistence in the image. >>> >>> But as I pursued the project it felt like I was reinventing the >>> database. So I thought why am I considering working so hard to structure >>> my classes and objects in such a way that I am in effect writing my own >>> database. All of this to avoid using a "real" database. >>> >>> Part of my projects goals is to keep this project contained. I do not >>> want to require my wife or whomever I share this with to have to install >>> anything other than copy or unzip the Pharo folder. No PostgreSQL or >>> MongoDB installs. Keep it simple. >>> >>> This is a goal I have for a lot of my ideas. >>> >>> In my 20+ years of computing and Internet. I have seen lots of >>> applications come and go. >>> (and no, I don't have gray hair, even though I have children older than >>> probably half the people here.) >>> >>> Many years ago, my wife and I made tremendous use out of Apple Works and >>> Microsoft Works. Apple at home and for me Microsoft at work. We loved >>> the ease and simplicity we could throw a database together and just do >>> stuff. It was great. In fact on my work PC I still use weekly and >>> sometimes daily a database I wrote in 1994. I am almost at the point >>> that Windows won't run this ancient MSWorks 4 database. I will have to >>> move my data. >>> >>> Of course these tools aren't the greatest. They have significant >>> limitations, but despite the limitations they were very empowering. >>> >>> My wife started to attempt something similar in LibreOffice but >>> LibreOffice wasn't so simple. It was confusing to her. I briefly looked >>> at LibreOffice but I am not convinced that it is the best or right tool >>> for the job. >>> >>> So that sent me on an adventure to implement this in Pharo. In my >>> learning that I don't want to reinvent the database I have initially >>> settled on using SQLite. SQLite meets my requirements above. It is >>> embedded in my Pharo app and only requires including the database file I >>> create. Very portable and easy to install along with anything else in >>> Pharo. >>> >>> SQLite seems like a very good match and complement to Pharo. A trusted, >>> reliable, external persistence that is as simple and portable as is >>> Pharo. >>> >>> Richard Hipp creator of SQLite has several videos describing how he >>> believes SQLite should be used and should not be used. >>> >>> SQLite: The Database at the Edge of the Network with Dr. Richard Hipp >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jib2AmRb_rk >>> >>> 2014 SouthEast LinuxFest - Richard Hipp - SQLite as an Application File >>> Format >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y_ABXwYtuc >>> >>> The videos are inspirational for using SQLite. I like what he says. I >>> encourage watching. I have watched these and others of his including his >>> anti-git video. >>> I am not knowledgeable about the use of git in Pharo, but I would be >>> interested if anybody has considered and knows the pros and cons of >>> using Fossil instead. I know, it wouldn't get us on GitHub. I may be the >>> only one. But that isn't a biggie for me. >>> TL;DW (didn't watch) >>> Use SQLite for Application File Format for persistence instead of a >>> (zipped) pile of files and you get many benefits. Examples in videos as >>> the wrong way, LibreOffice and git. >>> >>> I think using SQLite like this for Pharo would be an excellent match. We >>> gain all the benefits of SQLite, transactions, ACID. In a tool that is >>> nicely (non)licensed, and is used and trusted generally by most all of >>> the software world. >>> >>> For Pharo this buys us an excellent, simple, equally portable >>> persistence. It also buys us persistence that is trusted by people who >>> don't trust the image for their data. This could possible help with >>> people who explore Pharo but aren't comfortable about image only. Now of >>> course it won't help the Emacs or Vim, ... people. >>> >>> I am exploring the idea of using Pharo and SQLite for what I would have >>> previously used Apple/MS Works database for. At first it would be >>> building the app/project for my wife. And during and after that project >>> generalize some things to make a better out of the box solution for like >>> projects. >>> >>> Thoughts, opinions, ideas, wisdom. Any and all appreciated. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> Jimmie >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > >

Oct. 15, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and SQLite

by Jimmie Houchin

I would love to have an independent full featured, sold out to SQLite, adapter for Pharo. However, I have not written one. The one I have installed but yet to try is the one that is included in Garage. http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~DBXTalk/Garage But while looking at the link above, I see that it is based upon PharoExtras / NBSQLite3. http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/NBSQLite3 I will have to check on that one and see about going to the source. I was considering if necessary doing my own FFI later. Might not be required. I am not looking for any kind of generic database api to save me from SQL. I am not looking for being able to switch from SQLite to PostgreSQL. I want one that is sold out to being the best way to use SQLite. I don't want an ORM to save me from SQL. I want sold out opinionated software. :) So when I get back to the project, probably next week. I will definitely look at the NBSQLite3. Hopefully one of these two will meet your goals, which may be different than mine. Jimmie On 10/15/2015 01:05 PM, Robert Withers wrote: > Hi Jimmie, > > Is this SQlite adaptor you wrote published publicly? I'd definitely > like to evaluate this technology for my stack. > > Thank you, > Robet > > On 10/15/2015 01:58 PM, Jimmie Houchin wrote: >> Hello, >> >> I am working on a project for my wife. I initially thought I would keep >> all my data inside Pharo because it is a simple project and Pharo is >> great at persistence in the image. >> >> But as I pursued the project it felt like I was reinventing the >> database. So I thought why am I considering working so hard to structure >> my classes and objects in such a way that I am in effect writing my own >> database. All of this to avoid using a "real" database. >> >> Part of my projects goals is to keep this project contained. I do not >> want to require my wife or whomever I share this with to have to install >> anything other than copy or unzip the Pharo folder. No PostgreSQL or >> MongoDB installs. Keep it simple. >> >> This is a goal I have for a lot of my ideas. >> >> In my 20+ years of computing and Internet. I have seen lots of >> applications come and go. >> (and no, I don't have gray hair, even though I have children older than >> probably half the people here.) >> >> Many years ago, my wife and I made tremendous use out of Apple Works and >> Microsoft Works. Apple at home and for me Microsoft at work. We loved >> the ease and simplicity we could throw a database together and just do >> stuff. It was great. In fact on my work PC I still use weekly and >> sometimes daily a database I wrote in 1994. I am almost at the point >> that Windows won't run this ancient MSWorks 4 database. I will have to >> move my data. >> >> Of course these tools aren't the greatest. They have significant >> limitations, but despite the limitations they were very empowering. >> >> My wife started to attempt something similar in LibreOffice but >> LibreOffice wasn't so simple. It was confusing to her. I briefly looked >> at LibreOffice but I am not convinced that it is the best or right tool >> for the job. >> >> So that sent me on an adventure to implement this in Pharo. In my >> learning that I don't want to reinvent the database I have initially >> settled on using SQLite. SQLite meets my requirements above. It is >> embedded in my Pharo app and only requires including the database file I >> create. Very portable and easy to install along with anything else in >> Pharo. >> >> SQLite seems like a very good match and complement to Pharo. A trusted, >> reliable, external persistence that is as simple and portable as is >> Pharo. >> >> Richard Hipp creator of SQLite has several videos describing how he >> believes SQLite should be used and should not be used. >> >> SQLite: The Database at the Edge of the Network with Dr. Richard Hipp >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jib2AmRb_rk >> >> 2014 SouthEast LinuxFest - Richard Hipp - SQLite as an Application File >> Format >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y_ABXwYtuc >> >> The videos are inspirational for using SQLite. I like what he says. I >> encourage watching. I have watched these and others of his including his >> anti-git video. >> I am not knowledgeable about the use of git in Pharo, but I would be >> interested if anybody has considered and knows the pros and cons of >> using Fossil instead. I know, it wouldn't get us on GitHub. I may be the >> only one. But that isn't a biggie for me. >> TL;DW (didn't watch) >> Use SQLite for Application File Format for persistence instead of a >> (zipped) pile of files and you get many benefits. Examples in videos as >> the wrong way, LibreOffice and git. >> >> I think using SQLite like this for Pharo would be an excellent match. We >> gain all the benefits of SQLite, transactions, ACID. In a tool that is >> nicely (non)licensed, and is used and trusted generally by most all of >> the software world. >> >> For Pharo this buys us an excellent, simple, equally portable >> persistence. It also buys us persistence that is trusted by people who >> don't trust the image for their data. This could possible help with >> people who explore Pharo but aren't comfortable about image only. Now of >> course it won't help the Emacs or Vim, ... people. >> >> I am exploring the idea of using Pharo and SQLite for what I would have >> previously used Apple/MS Works database for. At first it would be >> building the app/project for my wife. And during and after that project >> generalize some things to make a better out of the box solution for like >> projects. >> >> Thoughts, opinions, ideas, wisdom. Any and all appreciated. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Jimmie >> >> >> >> >> >

Oct. 15, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and VPS

by Esteban A. Maringolo

I use DigitalOcean, a 2 core-VPS with 1GB ram could host 10 concurrent images without any issues, other than the constant ~5% CPU use while idle. I/O was the bottleneck, so no race conditions between the different images. Regards! Esteban A. Maringolo 2015-10-15 15:00 GMT-03:00 Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com>: > Thanks for the reply. > > Sounds like a winner to me. > > Jimmie > > > On 10/15/2015 10:32 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 12:17 PM, Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> I am exploring getting a VPS similar to the 1GB option. >> https://www.linode.com/pricing >> >> I have not selected a company or service at this time so this is simply an >> example and one of my options. >> >> I have not used such a service before. >> > > I am using Linode and running Pharo and GemStone there (CentOS 7). So far no > problem and Linode seem very very cool. > >> >> How suitable is Pharo currently for such an use case? >> Will Pharo and its polling and constant minimum cpu usage be a problem? > > > It's not in my case. Linode does invoice for cpu cycles, you simply has CPU > assigned and you do not care if it is 100% 24 hours a day or 10% used. > Other services like amazon etc do care about CPU cycles (the price is based > somehow on that I think), but not in Linode or other VPS-like. > >> >> >> I am wanting to learn to use VPS/Cloud services. I am wanting to play with >> a web server, wiki, blog. I want control of my tools and not the standard >> LAMP setup that so commonly offered. > > > I am very happy with Linode. It supports many nice things like having > multiple virtual images, clone them, backups, etc. > For example, I have a Linode template VM that is "ready to run my app" and > then I can clone such VM for each site (app instance) we deploy. > We have a daily backup, weekly, monthly and one more free slot. > >> >> Any wisdom on Pharo in such an environment, pros and cons, greatly >> appreciated. >> > > I think it depends on the type of app. For my case, I do not want to host > myself anymore. So I would go for cloud based for sure. Then, you have the > VPS like or the amazon-like. Both allow you to grow. I guess you may choose > this depending on your type of app. In any case, you end up having a OS > where you simply install Pharo and that's it. > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > >

Oct. 15, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and SQLite

by Esteban A. Maringolo

I haven't used SQLite in Pharo, but I used it in Android. It is a pretty complete database solution, self contained in a single file (and a shared library ;-)). I already posted the slides of the PgCon where Richard Hipp states that SQLite is the replacement of fopen() and not of a whole RDBMS: http://www.pgcon.org/2014/schedule/attachments/319_PGCon2014OpeningKeynote.… You already have drivers for it here: http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~PharoExtras/NBSQLite3 Regards! Esteban A. Maringolo 2015-10-15 15:05 GMT-03:00 Robert Withers <robert.w.withers(a)gmail.com>: > Hi Jimmie, > > Is this SQlite adaptor you wrote published publicly? I'd definitely like to > evaluate this technology for my stack. > > Thank you, > Robet > > > On 10/15/2015 01:58 PM, Jimmie Houchin wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> I am working on a project for my wife. I initially thought I would keep >> all my data inside Pharo because it is a simple project and Pharo is >> great at persistence in the image. >> >> But as I pursued the project it felt like I was reinventing the >> database. So I thought why am I considering working so hard to structure >> my classes and objects in such a way that I am in effect writing my own >> database. All of this to avoid using a "real" database. >> >> Part of my projects goals is to keep this project contained. I do not >> want to require my wife or whomever I share this with to have to install >> anything other than copy or unzip the Pharo folder. No PostgreSQL or >> MongoDB installs. Keep it simple. >> >> This is a goal I have for a lot of my ideas. >> >> In my 20+ years of computing and Internet. I have seen lots of >> applications come and go. >> (and no, I don't have gray hair, even though I have children older than >> probably half the people here.) >> >> Many years ago, my wife and I made tremendous use out of Apple Works and >> Microsoft Works. Apple at home and for me Microsoft at work. We loved >> the ease and simplicity we could throw a database together and just do >> stuff. It was great. In fact on my work PC I still use weekly and >> sometimes daily a database I wrote in 1994. I am almost at the point >> that Windows won't run this ancient MSWorks 4 database. I will have to >> move my data. >> >> Of course these tools aren't the greatest. They have significant >> limitations, but despite the limitations they were very empowering. >> >> My wife started to attempt something similar in LibreOffice but >> LibreOffice wasn't so simple. It was confusing to her. I briefly looked >> at LibreOffice but I am not convinced that it is the best or right tool >> for the job. >> >> So that sent me on an adventure to implement this in Pharo. In my >> learning that I don't want to reinvent the database I have initially >> settled on using SQLite. SQLite meets my requirements above. It is >> embedded in my Pharo app and only requires including the database file I >> create. Very portable and easy to install along with anything else in >> Pharo. >> >> SQLite seems like a very good match and complement to Pharo. A trusted, >> reliable, external persistence that is as simple and portable as is Pharo. >> >> Richard Hipp creator of SQLite has several videos describing how he >> believes SQLite should be used and should not be used. >> >> SQLite: The Database at the Edge of the Network with Dr. Richard Hipp >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jib2AmRb_rk >> >> 2014 SouthEast LinuxFest - Richard Hipp - SQLite as an Application File >> Format >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y_ABXwYtuc >> >> The videos are inspirational for using SQLite. I like what he says. I >> encourage watching. I have watched these and others of his including his >> anti-git video. >> I am not knowledgeable about the use of git in Pharo, but I would be >> interested if anybody has considered and knows the pros and cons of >> using Fossil instead. I know, it wouldn't get us on GitHub. I may be the >> only one. But that isn't a biggie for me. >> TL;DW (didn't watch) >> Use SQLite for Application File Format for persistence instead of a >> (zipped) pile of files and you get many benefits. Examples in videos as >> the wrong way, LibreOffice and git. >> >> I think using SQLite like this for Pharo would be an excellent match. We >> gain all the benefits of SQLite, transactions, ACID. In a tool that is >> nicely (non)licensed, and is used and trusted generally by most all of >> the software world. >> >> For Pharo this buys us an excellent, simple, equally portable >> persistence. It also buys us persistence that is trusted by people who >> don't trust the image for their data. This could possible help with >> people who explore Pharo but aren't comfortable about image only. Now of >> course it won't help the Emacs or Vim, ... people. >> >> I am exploring the idea of using Pharo and SQLite for what I would have >> previously used Apple/MS Works database for. At first it would be >> building the app/project for my wife. And during and after that project >> generalize some things to make a better out of the box solution for like >> projects. >> >> Thoughts, opinions, ideas, wisdom. Any and all appreciated. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Jimmie >> >> >> >> >> >

Oct. 15, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and VPS

by Jose San Leandro

I used linode long time ago, and switched to a dedicated host. Much better performance for cheaper price, back then. I currently use server4you.de, but you can compare other providers here: https://robot.your-server.de/order/market/country/ES# I use openshift for some stuff as well. It would be feasible to set up a Pharo cartidge, as Andres Fortier suggests. 2015-10-15 20:00 GMT+02:00 Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com>: > Thanks for the reply. > > Sounds like a winner to me. > > Jimmie > > > On 10/15/2015 10:32 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 12:17 PM, Jimmie Houchin < <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> > jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I am exploring getting a VPS similar to the 1GB option. >> https://www.linode.com/pricing >> >> I have not selected a company or service at this time so this is simply >> an example and one of my options. >> >> I have not used such a service before. >> >> > I am using Linode and running Pharo and GemStone there (CentOS 7). So far > no problem and Linode seem very very cool. > > >> How suitable is Pharo currently for such an use case? >> Will Pharo and its polling and constant minimum cpu usage be a problem? >> > > It's not in my case. Linode does invoice for cpu cycles, you simply has > CPU assigned and you do not care if it is 100% 24 hours a day or 10% used. > Other services like amazon etc do care about CPU cycles (the price is based > somehow on that I think), but not in Linode or other VPS-like. > > >> >> I am wanting to learn to use VPS/Cloud services. I am wanting to play >> with a web server, wiki, blog. I want control of my tools and not the >> standard LAMP setup that so commonly offered. >> > > I am very happy with Linode. It supports many nice things like having > multiple virtual images, clone them, backups, etc. > For example, I have a Linode template VM that is "ready to run my app" and > then I can clone such VM for each site (app instance) we deploy. > We have a daily backup, weekly, monthly and one more free slot. > > >> Any wisdom on Pharo in such an environment, pros and cons, greatly >> appreciated. >> >> > I think it depends on the type of app. For my case, I do not want to host > myself anymore. So I would go for cloud based for sure. Then, you have the > VPS like or the amazon-like. Both allow you to grow. I guess you may choose > this depending on your type of app. In any case, you end up having a OS > where you simply install Pharo and that's it. > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > >

Oct. 15, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and SQLite

by Robert Withers

Hi Jimmie, Is this SQlite adaptor you wrote published publicly? I'd definitely like to evaluate this technology for my stack. Thank you, Robet On 10/15/2015 01:58 PM, Jimmie Houchin wrote: > Hello, > > I am working on a project for my wife. I initially thought I would keep > all my data inside Pharo because it is a simple project and Pharo is > great at persistence in the image. > > But as I pursued the project it felt like I was reinventing the > database. So I thought why am I considering working so hard to structure > my classes and objects in such a way that I am in effect writing my own > database. All of this to avoid using a "real" database. > > Part of my projects goals is to keep this project contained. I do not > want to require my wife or whomever I share this with to have to install > anything other than copy or unzip the Pharo folder. No PostgreSQL or > MongoDB installs. Keep it simple. > > This is a goal I have for a lot of my ideas. > > In my 20+ years of computing and Internet. I have seen lots of > applications come and go. > (and no, I don't have gray hair, even though I have children older than > probably half the people here.) > > Many years ago, my wife and I made tremendous use out of Apple Works and > Microsoft Works. Apple at home and for me Microsoft at work. We loved > the ease and simplicity we could throw a database together and just do > stuff. It was great. In fact on my work PC I still use weekly and > sometimes daily a database I wrote in 1994. I am almost at the point > that Windows won't run this ancient MSWorks 4 database. I will have to > move my data. > > Of course these tools aren't the greatest. They have significant > limitations, but despite the limitations they were very empowering. > > My wife started to attempt something similar in LibreOffice but > LibreOffice wasn't so simple. It was confusing to her. I briefly looked > at LibreOffice but I am not convinced that it is the best or right tool > for the job. > > So that sent me on an adventure to implement this in Pharo. In my > learning that I don't want to reinvent the database I have initially > settled on using SQLite. SQLite meets my requirements above. It is > embedded in my Pharo app and only requires including the database file I > create. Very portable and easy to install along with anything else in > Pharo. > > SQLite seems like a very good match and complement to Pharo. A trusted, > reliable, external persistence that is as simple and portable as is Pharo. > > Richard Hipp creator of SQLite has several videos describing how he > believes SQLite should be used and should not be used. > > SQLite: The Database at the Edge of the Network with Dr. Richard Hipp > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jib2AmRb_rk > > 2014 SouthEast LinuxFest - Richard Hipp - SQLite as an Application File > Format > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y_ABXwYtuc > > The videos are inspirational for using SQLite. I like what he says. I > encourage watching. I have watched these and others of his including his > anti-git video. > I am not knowledgeable about the use of git in Pharo, but I would be > interested if anybody has considered and knows the pros and cons of > using Fossil instead. I know, it wouldn't get us on GitHub. I may be the > only one. But that isn't a biggie for me. > TL;DW (didn't watch) > Use SQLite for Application File Format for persistence instead of a > (zipped) pile of files and you get many benefits. Examples in videos as > the wrong way, LibreOffice and git. > > I think using SQLite like this for Pharo would be an excellent match. We > gain all the benefits of SQLite, transactions, ACID. In a tool that is > nicely (non)licensed, and is used and trusted generally by most all of > the software world. > > For Pharo this buys us an excellent, simple, equally portable > persistence. It also buys us persistence that is trusted by people who > don't trust the image for their data. This could possible help with > people who explore Pharo but aren't comfortable about image only. Now of > course it won't help the Emacs or Vim, ... people. > > I am exploring the idea of using Pharo and SQLite for what I would have > previously used Apple/MS Works database for. At first it would be > building the app/project for my wife. And during and after that project > generalize some things to make a better out of the box solution for like > projects. > > Thoughts, opinions, ideas, wisdom. Any and all appreciated. > > Thanks. > > Jimmie > > > > >

Oct. 15, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo and VPS

by Jimmie Houchin

Thanks for the reply. Sounds like a winner to me. Jimmie On 10/15/2015 10:32 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 12:17 PM, Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com > <mailto:jlhouchin@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Hello, > > I am exploring getting a VPS similar to the 1GB option. > https://www.linode.com/pricing > > I have not selected a company or service at this time so this is > simply an example and one of my options. > > I have not used such a service before. > > > I am using Linode and running Pharo and GemStone there (CentOS 7). So > far no problem and Linode seem very very cool. > > How suitable is Pharo currently for such an use case? > Will Pharo and its polling and constant minimum cpu usage be a > problem? > > > It's not in my case. Linode does invoice for cpu cycles, you simply > has CPU assigned and you do not care if it is 100% 24 hours a day or > 10% used. Other services like amazon etc do care about CPU cycles > (the price is based somehow on that I think), but not in Linode or > other VPS-like. > > > I am wanting to learn to use VPS/Cloud services. I am wanting to > play with a web server, wiki, blog. I want control of my tools and > not the standard LAMP setup that so commonly offered. > > > I am very happy with Linode. It supports many nice things like having > multiple virtual images, clone them, backups, etc. > For example, I have a Linode template VM that is "ready to run my app" > and then I can clone such VM for each site (app instance) we deploy. > We have a daily backup, weekly, monthly and one more free slot. > > > Any wisdom on Pharo in such an environment, pros and cons, greatly > appreciated. > > > I think it depends on the type of app. For my case, I do not want to > host myself anymore. So I would go for cloud based for sure. Then, you > have the VPS like or the amazon-like. Both allow you to grow. I guess > you may choose this depending on your type of app. In any case, you > end up having a OS where you simply install Pharo and that's it. > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Oct. 15, 2015

Pharo and SQLite

by Jimmie Houchin

Hello, I am working on a project for my wife. I initially thought I would keep all my data inside Pharo because it is a simple project and Pharo is great at persistence in the image. But as I pursued the project it felt like I was reinventing the database. So I thought why am I considering working so hard to structure my classes and objects in such a way that I am in effect writing my own database. All of this to avoid using a "real" database. Part of my projects goals is to keep this project contained. I do not want to require my wife or whomever I share this with to have to install anything other than copy or unzip the Pharo folder. No PostgreSQL or MongoDB installs. Keep it simple. This is a goal I have for a lot of my ideas. In my 20+ years of computing and Internet. I have seen lots of applications come and go. (and no, I don't have gray hair, even though I have children older than probably half the people here.) Many years ago, my wife and I made tremendous use out of Apple Works and Microsoft Works. Apple at home and for me Microsoft at work. We loved the ease and simplicity we could throw a database together and just do stuff. It was great. In fact on my work PC I still use weekly and sometimes daily a database I wrote in 1994. I am almost at the point that Windows won't run this ancient MSWorks 4 database. I will have to move my data. Of course these tools aren't the greatest. They have significant limitations, but despite the limitations they were very empowering. My wife started to attempt something similar in LibreOffice but LibreOffice wasn't so simple. It was confusing to her. I briefly looked at LibreOffice but I am not convinced that it is the best or right tool for the job. So that sent me on an adventure to implement this in Pharo. In my learning that I don't want to reinvent the database I have initially settled on using SQLite. SQLite meets my requirements above. It is embedded in my Pharo app and only requires including the database file I create. Very portable and easy to install along with anything else in Pharo. SQLite seems like a very good match and complement to Pharo. A trusted, reliable, external persistence that is as simple and portable as is Pharo. Richard Hipp creator of SQLite has several videos describing how he believes SQLite should be used and should not be used. SQLite: The Database at the Edge of the Network with Dr. Richard Hipp https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jib2AmRb_rk 2014 SouthEast LinuxFest - Richard Hipp - SQLite as an Application File Format https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y_ABXwYtuc The videos are inspirational for using SQLite. I like what he says. I encourage watching. I have watched these and others of his including his anti-git video. I am not knowledgeable about the use of git in Pharo, but I would be interested if anybody has considered and knows the pros and cons of using Fossil instead. I know, it wouldn't get us on GitHub. I may be the only one. But that isn't a biggie for me. TL;DW (didn't watch) Use SQLite for Application File Format for persistence instead of a (zipped) pile of files and you get many benefits. Examples in videos as the wrong way, LibreOffice and git. I think using SQLite like this for Pharo would be an excellent match. We gain all the benefits of SQLite, transactions, ACID. In a tool that is nicely (non)licensed, and is used and trusted generally by most all of the software world. For Pharo this buys us an excellent, simple, equally portable persistence. It also buys us persistence that is trusted by people who don't trust the image for their data. This could possible help with people who explore Pharo but aren't comfortable about image only. Now of course it won't help the Emacs or Vim, ... people. I am exploring the idea of using Pharo and SQLite for what I would have previously used Apple/MS Works database for. At first it would be building the app/project for my wife. And during and after that project generalize some things to make a better out of the box solution for like projects. Thoughts, opinions, ideas, wisdom. Any and all appreciated. Thanks. Jimmie

Oct. 15, 2015