October 2015 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Question when reading UPBE

by Serge Stinckwich

Have a look to this tutorial here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSmlsarDMEQ On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 7:31 PM, å°æ©æ© <zhushuai19890918(a)gmail.com> wrote: > But I don't find the pane on which I should write code. Did you know it? > > > On Monday, October 19, 2015, Serge Stinckwich <serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> Dear Andy, >> >> welcome here ! >> >> Normally you have to write your code on the bottom pane of the code >> browser. >> >> Regards, >> >> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 5:49 PM, å°æ©æ© <zhushuai19890918(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > Hi, >> > >> > I'm a newcomer in Pharo and start to learn how to use Pharo. >> > In page 42 of UPBE(Vesion:2015-10-17 ), I don't know where I write >> > the >> > constant methods and UPBE didn't tell me in which pane to type them. >> > Could you tell me ? >> > >> > Andy Zhu >> >> >> >> -- >> Serge Stinckwich >> UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) >> Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk >> http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/ >> > -- Serge Stinckwich UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

Oct. 19, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Question when reading UPBE

by Nicolai Hess

Hi Andy, on the page before, you see the Figure 3.14, the bottom panel is the code panel. If you select class LOGame in the second left pane, and for example "-- all --" in the category panel, every code you put in the code panel, becomes a method of your class "LOGame". 2015-10-19 19:31 GMT+02:00 å°æ©æ© <zhushuai19890918(a)gmail.com>: > But I don't find the pane on which I should write code. Did you know it? > > > On Monday, October 19, 2015, Serge Stinckwich <serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Dear Andy, >> >> welcome here ! >> >> Normally you have to write your code on the bottom pane of the code >> browser. >> >> Regards, >> >> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 5:49 PM, å°æ©æ© <zhushuai19890918(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > Hi, >> > >> > I'm a newcomer in Pharo and start to learn how to use Pharo. >> > In page 42 of UPBE(Vesion:2015-10-17 ), I don't know where I write >> the >> > constant methods and UPBE didn't tell me in which pane to type them. >> > Could you tell me ? >> > >> > Andy Zhu >> >> >> >> -- >> Serge Stinckwich >> UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) >> Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk >> http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/ >> >>

Oct. 19, 2015

Voting for removing Seaside chapter from UPBE

by Dimitris Chloupis

I already mentioned this in Github issues but here is my take on this I vote for the complete removal of the Seaside chapter for several reasons a) Its not a begineer orientated chapter as is the focus of this book b) its not general purpose as is the focus of this book c) far harder to keep this updated constantly which again is the focus of this book, since not many of us use seaside d) It already has its own book and its own documentation which we can easily refer to. e) Its not even part of Pharo standard distribution So I vote for the complete removal of this chapter so we have one less thing to worry about updating and since its my personal opinion that it does not fit the general character of this book. I would like your thoughts on this since its a big change.

Oct. 19, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Question when reading UPBE

by å°æ©æ©

But I don't find the pane on which I should write code. Did you know it? On Monday, October 19, 2015, Serge Stinckwich <serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Dear Andy, > > welcome here ! > > Normally you have to write your code on the bottom pane of the code > browser. > > Regards, > > On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 5:49 PM, å°æ©æ© <zhushuai19890918(a)gmail.com > <javascript:;>> wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I'm a newcomer in Pharo and start to learn how to use Pharo. > > In page 42 of UPBE(Vesion:2015-10-17 ), I don't know where I write > the > > constant methods and UPBE didn't tell me in which pane to type them. > > Could you tell me ? > > > > Andy Zhu > > > > -- > Serge Stinckwich > UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) > Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk > http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/ > >

Oct. 19, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Thanks for Pharo

by Dimitris Chloupis

The best way to thank us, is to contribute. So put your code where your mouth is and give a much needed helping hand. Suggestions and discussions is all good , but nothing beats old hard work ;) It can be a bug fix, a new library, a new gui tool, documentation, blog posts or just promotion to other coder of the merits of pharo. It does not matter how you will help only that you will do. As stef says and I will agree very much "Pharo is yours" , its a project that is unique and dares to go against the general practices and patterns of modern coding and define its own path and do things its own way and still boost productivity and be very useful. It looks like a simple toy on the surface but screams "nuclear bomb" in the deep. But in the end it depends on its own community to give the push it needs to keep going forward and the more the better. On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 6:36 PM Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas < offray(a)riseup.net> wrote: > Hi, > > Some notes below. > > On 19/10/15 08:39, Jimmie Houchin wrote: > > > > > >>> > >>> There truly is no edit, compile, run cycle similar to other > >>> languages, even > >>> dynamically typed languages with REPLs. > >> I view that we do have an edit/compile/run loop, its just really > >> tight loop! > >> I recently had a passing thought we could market Pharo as REPL+. > > > > Here is what I was saying. In Pharo there is not separate tool for > > editing, then a different tool for compiling and running. Yes, there > > are distinct phases of process requiring editing, compiling and > > running in Pharo, But they all exist in a single process. > > > > In Pharo I can have multiple Workspaces/Playgrounds and multiple Code > > Browsers, Inspectors, Debuggers and Testing Tools all open at the same > > time. I can flow from one to another and they all be viewing, editing, > > executing, inspecting the same objects, instances. > > > > Where else can we have multiple editors, compilers, repls, and > > whatever tools, all operating on the same objects and instances? > > > > As wonderful as Jupyter may be, can it have multiple windows with a > > view into the same repl instance? Maybe? I don't know. But now throw > > into that picture your favorite editor or IDE. Can it have multiple > > files open and seamlessly edit the code running in that single repl > > instance? The same instance as is in the Jupyter. > > > > Even if you get all of those tools communicating via sockets or > > whatever to a single Python/Julia/??? instance. It is still a very > > poor comparison to the workflow in any Smalltalk. > > > > Then you get to the end of your workday. There is no save menu to > > persist the state of all of those tools and repl all working together. > > > > In Pharo, just one tool, Pharo. Everything exists inside Pharo. > > Wonderful. > > > > Talking about Jupyter/IPython, the portability and moldability of Pharo > is something really empowering and difficult to find anywhere else > (which doesn't diminish the advantages others' huge ecosystem, just we > have different advantages). I wrote about my path from IPytho/Jupyter to > Pharo in my over-publicized but under coded :-P project [1]: > > [1] > > http://mutabit.com/offray/static/blog/output/posts/grafoscopio-idea-and-ini… > > > > > > Absolutely. The already existent, persistent live environment is a > > powerful thing. The fact that we have code in Pharo that is decades > > old and has never been in a state disconnected from a live, running > > environment is amazing. Where else do we find that? What other > > software, programming language has a vision to provide such facility? > > Most everything else is designed to build something which you release > > and run. Release from your edit, build, compile to a run environment. > > > > Smalltalk and therefore Pharo is ontological and not merely a tool to > > build something external to itself. This is a huge difference. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontology > > > > One of the things I find inspiring in the talks by Richard Hipp about > > SQLite is the level of the quality of the code in SQLite. That its > > file format is stable and guaranteed. That its codebase has complete > > test coverage. Coverage sufficient for its use in avionics systems. > > http://sqlite.org/testing.html > > > > I know Pharo is not going to be used in such a system. But it would be > > interesting if we can have decent coverage on the core or kernel as > > the everything get reduced to a buildable system. Then test coverage > > can more easily be applied on a system which is smaller and > > understandable. I have no concept of how you do the vm. > > > > We could think on something like SQLite ubiquity for Pharo, not in the > storage backend, but in the writing frontend (blogs, books, code > snippets/scripts, data visualizations) with a portable "pocket > infrastructure" (as I call it). Pharo is an awesome pocket > infrastructure that can be run from a thumbdrive, computer sticker, low > end server and anything between and beyond. And there are new scenarios, > like open/citizen/garage science & research, activism, data journalims > and others which lack of the proper tools for being really open, > empowering and democratic and putting them exclusively on the "cloud" > doesn't help that much. (A related idea on this track is on [2]) > > [2] > > https://www.newschallenge.org/challenge/data/entries/data-kitchen-frictionl… > > So which are the places where the empowerment that Pharo/Smalltalk > brings will be ubiquitous? (I always take my custom Pharo with my keys > thumb drive). > > Nice to see we can effectively explore/build the future together. > > Thanks, > > Offray > >

Oct. 19, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Question when reading UPBE

by Serge Stinckwich

Dear Andy, welcome here ! Normally you have to write your code on the bottom pane of the code browser. Regards, On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 5:49 PM, å°æ©æ© <zhushuai19890918(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > I'm a newcomer in Pharo and start to learn how to use Pharo. > In page 42 of UPBE(Vesion:2015-10-17 ), I don't know where I write the > constant methods and UPBE didn't tell me in which pane to type them. > Could you tell me ? > > Andy Zhu -- Serge Stinckwich UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

Oct. 19, 2015

Question when reading UPBE

by å°æ©æ©

Hi, I'm a newcomer in Pharo and start to learn how to use Pharo. In page 42 of UPBE(Vesion:2015-10-17 ), I don't know where I write the constant methods and UPBE didn't tell me in which pane to type them. Could you tell me ? Andy Zhu

Oct. 19, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Thanks for Pharo

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

Hi, Some notes below. On 19/10/15 08:39, Jimmie Houchin wrote: > > >>> >>> There truly is no edit, compile, run cycle similar to other >>> languages, even >>> dynamically typed languages with REPLs. >> I view that we do have an edit/compile/run loop, its just really >> tight loop! >> I recently had a passing thought we could market Pharo as REPL+. > > Here is what I was saying. In Pharo there is not separate tool for > editing, then a different tool for compiling and running. Yes, there > are distinct phases of process requiring editing, compiling and > running in Pharo, But they all exist in a single process. > > In Pharo I can have multiple Workspaces/Playgrounds and multiple Code > Browsers, Inspectors, Debuggers and Testing Tools all open at the same > time. I can flow from one to another and they all be viewing, editing, > executing, inspecting the same objects, instances. > > Where else can we have multiple editors, compilers, repls, and > whatever tools, all operating on the same objects and instances? > > As wonderful as Jupyter may be, can it have multiple windows with a > view into the same repl instance? Maybe? I don't know. But now throw > into that picture your favorite editor or IDE. Can it have multiple > files open and seamlessly edit the code running in that single repl > instance? The same instance as is in the Jupyter. > > Even if you get all of those tools communicating via sockets or > whatever to a single Python/Julia/??? instance. It is still a very > poor comparison to the workflow in any Smalltalk. > > Then you get to the end of your workday. There is no save menu to > persist the state of all of those tools and repl all working together. > > In Pharo, just one tool, Pharo. Everything exists inside Pharo. > Wonderful. > Talking about Jupyter/IPython, the portability and moldability of Pharo is something really empowering and difficult to find anywhere else (which doesn't diminish the advantages others' huge ecosystem, just we have different advantages). I wrote about my path from IPytho/Jupyter to Pharo in my over-publicized but under coded :-P project [1]: [1] http://mutabit.com/offray/static/blog/output/posts/grafoscopio-idea-and-ini… > > Absolutely. The already existent, persistent live environment is a > powerful thing. The fact that we have code in Pharo that is decades > old and has never been in a state disconnected from a live, running > environment is amazing. Where else do we find that? What other > software, programming language has a vision to provide such facility? > Most everything else is designed to build something which you release > and run. Release from your edit, build, compile to a run environment. > > Smalltalk and therefore Pharo is ontological and not merely a tool to > build something external to itself. This is a huge difference. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontology > > One of the things I find inspiring in the talks by Richard Hipp about > SQLite is the level of the quality of the code in SQLite. That its > file format is stable and guaranteed. That its codebase has complete > test coverage. Coverage sufficient for its use in avionics systems. > http://sqlite.org/testing.html > > I know Pharo is not going to be used in such a system. But it would be > interesting if we can have decent coverage on the core or kernel as > the everything get reduced to a buildable system. Then test coverage > can more easily be applied on a system which is smaller and > understandable. I have no concept of how you do the vm. > We could think on something like SQLite ubiquity for Pharo, not in the storage backend, but in the writing frontend (blogs, books, code snippets/scripts, data visualizations) with a portable "pocket infrastructure" (as I call it). Pharo is an awesome pocket infrastructure that can be run from a thumbdrive, computer sticker, low end server and anything between and beyond. And there are new scenarios, like open/citizen/garage science & research, activism, data journalims and others which lack of the proper tools for being really open, empowering and democratic and putting them exclusively on the "cloud" doesn't help that much. (A related idea on this track is on [2]) [2] https://www.newschallenge.org/challenge/data/entries/data-kitchen-frictionl… So which are the places where the empowerment that Pharo/Smalltalk brings will be ubiquitous? (I always take my custom Pharo with my keys thumb drive). Nice to see we can effectively explore/build the future together. Thanks, Offray

Oct. 19, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Thanks for Pharo

by Jimmie Houchin

On 10/19/2015 08:59 AM, Marcus Denker wrote: >> On 19 Oct 2015, at 15:39, Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> On 10/18/2015 11:51 AM, Ben Coman wrote: >>> Thanks very much for your thoughts Jimmie. Day to day, its easy to >>> take for granted what we have. >>> >>> On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 6:14 AM, Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> Sometimes conversations revolve around perceived deficiencies in Pharo. What >>>> Pharo is missing. Or what Pharo doesn't do as well as my previous language, >>>> my favorite language, my other language, etc... These conversations are >>>> necessary to understand where Pharo is and to provide understanding on where >>>> Pharo needs some work. >>>> >>>> However, not enough gets said sometimes for all the goodness Pharo already >>>> provides and thanks to all of those who have contributed over the years to >>>> Smalltalk/Pharo. >>>> >>>> I know sometimes we get stuck in the minutiae and lose the big picture. >>>> >>>> I just want to say thanks to all that have contributed to Pharo in big and >>>> small way. Thank you. >>>> >>>> A special thanks to Stef, Marcus and company who have been working hard on >>>> this all the way back when it was still Squeak. Who had a vision for a >>>> clean, empowering, business ready, vision fulfilling Smalltalk inspired tool >>>> we call Pharo. Thanks. >>> Stef's "Pharo Vision" [1] document was a big part of what drew me to >>> Pharo. Not necessarily what was in it, but more just that there was >>> such a vision. >>> >>> [1] https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/30434/PharoVision.pdf >> Absolutely. This is a very important thing. A vision that moves the community and project forward is exceptionally important. >> >> To me a project without a vision statement or at least a roadmap is direction less and quite possible dying. Show me some life before I invest my time. > We (Doru and me) will write a new roadmap over the next weeksâ¦ so many things are happening, we need to get the current > planning and how everything fits into one documentâ¦ > > Marcus Thank you both for doing this. It is a valuable asset to the community. It helps those of us who aren't driving the project to see where we are going and hopefully how we can help. Thank you both for all you do. I really enjoy your talk Nomads do not build Cathedrals. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vcoy5gwUvOA I believe this is an important thing for people coming to Pharo to understand about Pharo, its vision and its processes. I also love Doru's videos. Very inspirational. Some of the shorts are so dramatic with graphics and sound, I almost feel like I need to turn the lights out and get some popcorn. :) Thanks. Jimmie

Oct. 19, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Thanks for Pharo

by Marcus Denker

> On 19 Oct 2015, at 15:39, Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On 10/18/2015 11:51 AM, Ben Coman wrote: >> Thanks very much for your thoughts Jimmie. Day to day, its easy to >> take for granted what we have. >> >> On Sat, Oct 17, 2015 at 6:14 AM, Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> Sometimes conversations revolve around perceived deficiencies in Pharo. What >>> Pharo is missing. Or what Pharo doesn't do as well as my previous language, >>> my favorite language, my other language, etc... These conversations are >>> necessary to understand where Pharo is and to provide understanding on where >>> Pharo needs some work. >>> >>> However, not enough gets said sometimes for all the goodness Pharo already >>> provides and thanks to all of those who have contributed over the years to >>> Smalltalk/Pharo. >>> >>> I know sometimes we get stuck in the minutiae and lose the big picture. >>> >>> I just want to say thanks to all that have contributed to Pharo in big and >>> small way. Thank you. >>> >>> A special thanks to Stef, Marcus and company who have been working hard on >>> this all the way back when it was still Squeak. Who had a vision for a >>> clean, empowering, business ready, vision fulfilling Smalltalk inspired tool >>> we call Pharo. Thanks. >> >> Stef's "Pharo Vision" [1] document was a big part of what drew me to >> Pharo. Not necessarily what was in it, but more just that there was >> such a vision. >> >> [1] https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/30434/PharoVision.pdf > > Absolutely. This is a very important thing. A vision that moves the community and project forward is exceptionally important. > > To me a project without a vision statement or at least a roadmap is direction less and quite possible dying. Show me some life before I invest my time. We (Doru and me) will write a new roadmap over the next weeksâ¦ so many things are happening, we need to get the current planning and how everything fits into one documentâ¦ Marcus

Oct. 19, 2015