January 2015 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

by Alain Rastoul

Le 18/01/2015 10:49, Alain Rastoul a Ã©crit : > Costs in the middle and long run are clearly related to code quality and > to bugs, not to productivity. And of course, I should have said design first -- Regards, Alain

Jan. 18, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

by Alain Rastoul

Hi horrido, I do not agree with most of yours arguments. Here is what I picked : ... "Indeed, many organizations have to use JVM, and yes, they probably fall back on Java because that's the "safe" choice." Most CEO or IT managers think like that, but this is a false marketing argument mostly sustained by the fact that the software is good enough for the majority. The Java license explicitly states that there is no warranty of whatever. I remember in the past it was forbidden to use it for nuclear systems, I don't know if this is still the case ;) . The same as for several mainstream technologies, and big software vendors. And when you are beaten by a bug (very rare yes, but it happens), it is sometimes very hard to deal with it. Being able to understand and master the system is a key advantage. By dropping the vm you will depend on other and loose this advantage. And I saw several systems choosen only on those criterias be very poor choices for their users. ... "If we can't convince these organizations that they'll be much more productive using Smalltalk over Java, and save tons of money /in the long run/, then how can we ever advance our agenda to the rest of the world??" I do not see productivity as very important. It is just an (eventually) good feature. Productivity, and cost are the most flawed indicators in software development and this is the argument I hate the most (I may be a bit rude about that because I have to maintain some old legacy code and we had quite some bugs last years). Costs in the middle and long run are clearly related to code quality and to bugs, not to productivity. And sometimes, the cost of bugs is terrible when you think about how many people are involved in the chain and what has to be done to solve customer problems and revert the results of bugs. .. Awful. For example, about the cost of null ... "I did it, just because it was so easy" http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Null-References-The-Billion-Dollar-Mista… "Strategically, it shows Smalltalk's versatility and that it's not just a one-trick pony. Limiting ourselves to just desktop (or Seaside) applications is rather short-sighted." I do not understand how Smalltalk will be more versatile by using a jvm ? doing like others ? IMHO innovation is related to change, this implies not following the main path somewhere, and some risks too. A very good example here about wheels :) http://blogs.ubc.ca/etec540sept12/2012/09/16/inventing-the-wheel/ Going on this way, one could ask why not use cloudstack or openstack and plain java for server side , with an hypervisor-ready jvm (kenai?) , plain javascript for the client side and forget about the system. It will be open to widespread frameworks library and tools, but at what cost ? That will be safer, but would it still be interesting ? Would you have fun using it ? To end, I found your question a good revealer about one's expectations about pharo, very interesting :). -- Regards, Alain

Jan. 18, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Blitzkrieg!

by jtuchel＠objektfabrik.de

Horrido, You are aware that there are regions on this planet where mails containing vocabulary like Blitzkrieg or Genaralissimo will evoke reactions that will not help at ll. You are at risk to simply be ignored in the best case. In the worst case, people will hsake their heads and associate Smalltalk with a certain kind of political spam they receive from time to time. Joachim Von: horrido Gesendet: âSamstagâ, â17â. âJanuarâ â2015 â16â:â15 An: Any question about pharo is welcome http://horridohobbies.tumblr.com/ <http://horridohobbies.tumblr.com/> *Today is the one-month anniversary of the SRP.* We have made good progress, but there is still much work ahead of us. Shortly, I will be seeking corporate sponsorship. As well, I'm trying to coordinate activities with the Smalltalk Foundation. Later this summer, I will be pushing my "Small Minds Initiative," a sub-campaign of the SRP to get Smalltalk into the classroom. I will begin with the Toronto District School Board. Are we pumped yet?! Generalissimo -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Blitzkrieg-tp4800165.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 18, 2015

Nautilus plugin with new menu entries

by HernÃ¡n Morales Durand

Hi, If you are using Pharo 3 you may install a Nautilus plugin I did which implements the following menu item features: - Jump to the superclass of the currently selected class. - Explore all the instances of the currently selected class. - Send #release and #initialize to the currently selected class - Send (#perform:) the selected unary method to a new instance of the currently selected class. To install evaluate: Gofer it smalltalkhubUser: 'hernan' project: 'HernanPlugins'; package: 'HernanPlugins'; load. Repository: http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~hernan/HernanPlugins Cheers, HernÃ¡n

Jan. 18, 2015

parsing a file / stream API advice

by Daniel Lyons

This is an OO design question. For my task, I have some objects and a particular file format that encodes them. I want to be able to read the file and create those objects. The Stream API seems like the right way to do this, but I'm not sure how to encapsulate my code. I see these options: â¢ Create a new class (subclass of Object) that implements #next to return the next object in some underlying stream. Pro: very simple, one place with all the code. Con: what about the rest of the Stream and/or Collection APIs? Is it wise to delegate everything else to the underlying stream with #doesNotUnderstand:? â¢ Create a new class, subclass of Stream, that implements #next like the above. Pro: still pretty simple, not sure what is needed to implement the API completely (I did add a method #atEnd). Con: not sure if more methods are missing; unclear about initialization (overrode class>>#on: to call #basicNew). This seems close to the right approach but I'm unsure. â¢ Create a method #nextFoo on the existing Stream class. Pro: very simpleâno new class. Con: nextFoo doesn't integrate well with the rest of the API (#do: for instance), not sure this is clean or wise. â¢ Ignore the Stream classes altogether. Pro: No chance of misundestanding. :) Con: everything else. Advice? Thanks for your time, â Daniel Lyons

Jan. 18, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] [Bulk] Blitzkrieg!

by Yanni Chiu

On Jan 17, 2015, at 10:15 AM, horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Later this summer, I will be pushing my "Small Minds Initiative," a > sub-campaign of the SRP to get Smalltalk into the classroom. I will begin > with the Toronto District School Board. Are you going to approach them from the point of view of: - computer science/programming education - or, education in general (e.g. One-Laptop-Per-Child) FYI, around ten years ago, during the peak interest in the (at that time) soon to be released One-Laptop-Per-Child machine, there were two meetings held on getting Smalltalk into the classroom at the TDSB. IIRC, in attendance were a handful of people - teacher, education specialist, industry Smalltalker. Getting software installed on TDSB computers is a political activity. Good luck.

Jan. 18, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

by Ben Coman

On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 8:00 AM, horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > /IT management often make stupid choices based on fad, fashion, and > laziness./ I think partly its that above IT management you have non-IT management, who ask "who else is using it". Big companies often have trouble with the risk of innovation. Its not so much a matter of making the best choice, as avoiding a wrong choice. Its the small agile companies that innovate, and either fail, or succeed and subsequently be bought out by the big company.

Jan. 18, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] if Pharo is key for you

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

Stef, pdf and Open Document Presentation (Libre Office) are fine as formats. Thanks, Offray El 12/01/15 a las 13:20, stepharo escribiÃ³: > In which format? > I will put them on a dropbox folder and send them to you. If I forget, > please reminded it to me. > > Stef > > Le 12/1/15 00:05, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas a Ã©crit : >> Hi, >> >> Yep, would be nice to have that slides to add to my open Zotero >> collection about Pharo/Smalltalk >> >> [1] >> https://www.zotero.org/groups/diseo_y_creacion_phd_msc_universidad_de_calda… >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Offray >> >> >> >> El 11/01/15 a las 15:05, stepharo escribiÃ³: >>> super! >>> It is always good to do retrospective analysis to see what we learned >>> and it looks like you learned a lot. >>> If you need pharo slides let me know. >>> >>> Stef >>> Le 11/1/15 17:21, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas a Ã©crit : >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Just picking up some old threads, so I answer this below. >>>> >>>> El 18/09/13 a las 01:19, StÃ©phane Ducasse escribiÃ³: >>>>> Hi guys >>>>> >>>>> if Pharo is key for you then you should ask yourself what you did for >>>>> Pharo recently. >>>>> Writing code, writing documentation helping closing bug entries, >>>>> participating to the association, to the consortium... >>>>> >>>>> Pharo is not happening from spontaneous generation. >>>>> >>>>> Stef >>>>> >>>> >>>> Well I recently (previous semester) start to: >>>> >>>> 1. Learn Pharo. >>>> 2. Develop my own app to learn and write about the process [a][b]. I >>>> will be payed for this prototype and will be a paying member of the >>>> association. >>>> 3. Made my local group of Pharo/Smalltalk on Data narratives and >>>> visualization for Open/Garage/Citizen Science & Research at our local >>>> hackerspace with several (3 or 4) meetings that will continue this >>>> year [c]. >>>> 4. Read a lot of previous email to be aware the community memory and >>>> revive older threads when is possible and trying to be a more >>>> proactive/visible member of this community, even in my newbie >>>> condition. >>>> >>>> So, what I'm planing for this year: >>>> >>>> 1. To learn/teach more about Pharo specially moldable tools, fluid >>>> interfaces and good devel practices. >>>> 1. To have a good application with some data narratives and >>>> visualization build on it. A good download page, documentation and >>>> with clean code instead of the rookie one I have now. >>>> 2. To create a stronger local community around data >>>> visualization/narratives for Open/Garage/Citizen Sciecen & Research >>>> powered by Pharo. >>>> 3. To write more. >>>> 4. Economical contributions to the community through the association. >>>> 5. Hopefully make stronger ties to the international community in >>>> South America or Europe by participating in some event or scholarship >>>> (this will depend on costs). >>>> >>>> Thanks for the questions and I will be glad to read other >>>> answers/prospective about persons and Pharo, >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> Offray >>>> >>>> Links: >>>> ====== >>>> >>>> [a] >>>> http://mutabit.com/deltas/repos.fossil/grafoscopio/doc/tip/Docs/Es/Articulo… >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> [b] http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Offray/Grafoscopio/ >>>> >>>> [c] http://hackbo.co/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > >

Jan. 18, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

by horrido

Thanks for this link! I always thought there was something not right about Angular, and this article (and its links) clearly lay out the issue. Obviously, I think Amber is a better solution. The one big takeaway from these anti-Angular articles, I think, is this... /IT management often make stupid choices based on fad, fashion, and laziness./ They can't be bothered to do the actual research and investigation to see which technology best fits their goals and objectives. Presumably, one of their chief objectives is to improve productivity and save on (labour) costs. How can you meet this objective without at least trying one of the premier productivity technologies on the market, namely, Smalltalk? How can you not have heard the oft-repeated claims about Smalltalk's superlative productivity over the years? They've only been made year after year since the 1980s. All that is required is to run a pilot Smalltalk program. This will definitively answer the question: How much more productive can you be in developing software? Generalissimo sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com wrote >> On Jan 17, 2015, at 3:18 PM, kilon alios < > kilon.alios@ > > wrote: >> >> So overall I doubt that Smalltalk will ever be a big hit on JVM or >> Javascript. > > Everybody is a looser if you frame it in that perspective. > > That game is not interesting, nor strategy wise. > > An interesting alternative is to create the opportunity for people to take > their bite on the Java market and if they can do it, as small as it might > be thatâs all that really counts. > > James is already one of those someone will make it when the demand is > felt. > > If Redline Smalltalk saves significant costs to a company that has > invested heavy in something JVM-ish then you will have their attention. > > Productivity is one of the strongest opportunities for Smalltalk unless > our tools UI/UX sucks so bad it get deteriorated or the world catches up. > > And we have control over the UI/UX we provide. > > Have you ever thought that AngularJS is essentially a Google strategy to > bite Javaâs market > <http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2015/01/the_problem_wit.html>? -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799678p4800193.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 18, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] InfoWorld on Redline Smalltalk

by Sebastian Sastre

> On Jan 17, 2015, at 3:18 PM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > So overall I doubt that Smalltalk will ever be a big hit on JVM or Javascript. Everybody is a looser if you frame it in that perspective. That game is not interesting, nor strategy wise. An interesting alternative is to create the opportunity for people to take their bite on the Java market and if they can do it, as small as it might be thatâs all that really counts. James is already one of those someone will make it when the demand is felt. If Redline Smalltalk saves significant costs to a company that has invested heavy in something JVM-ish then you will have their attention. Productivity is one of the strongest opportunities for Smalltalk unless our tools UI/UX sucks so bad it get deteriorated or the world catches up. And we have control over the UI/UX we provide. Have you ever thought that AngularJS is essentially a Google strategy to bite Javaâs market <http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2015/01/the_problem_wit.html>?

Jan. 17, 2015