January 2015 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Mea Culpa

by kilon alios

Popularity indeed comes with a high price. Guido the creator of python he has said in one of his presentation that there many people who want to add their libraries to python distribution but they should not want to do that, because once a library is added it become very difficult to change since so many people depend on it to keep backward compatibility. He claimed that even simple bug fixes have to go through lengthy review process. This can be expanded to the entirety of the IDE and the language. This the most important reason why pharo has been moving forward so fast and why popular languages move at glacial speed. I dont want to lose that so yes I dont want for pharo to become popular. On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 4:45 AM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand < hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hello Richard, > > 2015-01-21 17:12 GMT-03:00 horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com>: > >> Okay, so far, I've made two mistakes. First was my lack of sensitivity to >> cultural differences around the world. Now that I know better, I shall do >> better. > > > You better take a lot of care writing about politics, sports, or whatever > that could be considered Off-Topic. Some people is always looking for > excuses to kick out offenders. And some others are monitoring with eagle > eyes any out-of-order comment you can possibly write. Rules of the game. > > >> Second was my failure to distinguish between different subgroups within >> the >> Pharo forum. > > > Welcome to Smalltalk :) > > >> The reason I chose Pharo forum to discuss my campaign was the >> fact that it is the most active Smalltalk forum there is. People who are >> > interested in Smalltalk join the most active forum generally, and this >> includes not only Pharoers, but people from ESUG, Squeak, Cincom, Amber, >> Redline, etc. >> >> > Yes, this is parasitic behavior and well-known for biologists. > Unfortunately I haven't seen many smalltalkers interested in on-line social > behavior, probably because in such small community the most valuable asset > is The Code, followed by The Documentation. Which of course, are excuses to > get The Money. > > >> So, for example, when I appealed for contributors to the Redline project, >> I >> should've distinguished the target audience as those groups other than >> Pharoers. This was my failure and I own up to it. >> >> It is unfortunate that I must use the Pharo forum for this purpose. The >> Smalltalk community is so terribly fragmented that there is no universal >> Smalltalk forum to address, at least, none that is actually *inhabited*. >> Without the ability to address the largest number of Smalltalkers, the SRP >> cannot make any progress. I'm sorry, but I have to be blunt. >> >> > Then maybe you should start your own Smalltalk mailing-list? > > For spanish language we have ClubSmalltalk. Is a cross-smalltalk mailing > list where people may write in other languages, but has become really low > volume in the last years. And Smalltalk was (is?) very popular in > Argentina, so you can get a dimension of how terribly small the community > is. > > >> If anyone can offer a practical alternative, I'd like to hear it. >> Otherwise, >> the SRP has only two choices: >> >> 1) Continue what it is doing on the Pharo forum, and be mindful of which >> group(s) I am addressing. >> >> 2) Fold up the campaign and leave the destiny of Smalltalk to the Fates. >> Without the ability to reach out to Smalltalkers everywhere, I am >> hopelessly >> disadvantaged. >> >> > I am not that convinced Smalltalk should be popular. Surely any > smalltalker could find easily (more) job offers, that would be the only > determinant factor because we need desperately more Smalltalk positions. > But popularity has many drawbacks.... some smalltalkers are afraid to > competition, and we all read the StackOverflow 'popular' questions... > > So, my alternative is: Instead of broadcasting Smalltalk by traditional > internet advertising, go and get them. I suspect you won't get much from > us, we are some kind of Loyal Customers. But there are tons of > unexperienced developers lacking of fear to change, which are reading > Quora, StackExchange, Wikipedia, etc. And unexperienced developers are the > next business decision makers. > > For example, see this articles which CS students read every day: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-ended_queue > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit_array > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_search_algorithm > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_function > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_%28computer_science%29 > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artificial_intelligence_projects > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_expression > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorting_algorithm > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_machine > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XML > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software > > No Smalltalk mention there. There you have it, the Library of Alexandria > of our time, and people do not read about us. > > Cheers, > > HernÃ¡n > > > >> Regards, >> Richard >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://forum.world.st/Mea-Culpa-tp4800840.html >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> >

Jan. 22, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Glorp on Pharo 4

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 22 Jan 2015, at 06:52, Craig <craig(a)hivemind.net> wrote: > > From: Sven Van Caekenberghe > Sent: 20 January 2015 01:40 PM > >> Using Glorp on top of the PostgresV2 driver (which uses just a network > connection and no native code nor plugin) >> should work on all platforms. Of course, you still have to install > Postgres itself, but it can run on another machine too. >> >> HTH, >> >> Sven > Sven, > > I just ran into an issue in the Postgres V2 driver, which I guess is a > porting error. See below and note the commas ",". > > PGConnection>>stSendingMD5Password: event > "MD5 authentication as explain in > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-novice/2003-05/msg00305.php" > | hashedCredentials hashedMessage | > > hashedCredentials := (MD5 hashMessage: (connectionArgs password, > connectionArgs userName)) hex asLowercase. > hashedMessage := 'md5', (MD5 hashMessage: (hashedCredentials, event > salt asString)) hex asLowercase. > > self sendPacket: (PGPasswordPacket password: hashedMessage) on: > socket. What exactly do you mean ? Reading the link above that seems to be correct, at first glance, maybe I don't see it. Sven

Jan. 22, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Glorp on Pharo 4

by Craig

From: Sven Van Caekenberghe Sent: 20 January 2015 01:40 PM > Using Glorp on top of the PostgresV2 driver (which uses just a network connection and no native code nor plugin) > should work on all platforms. Of course, you still have to install Postgres itself, but it can run on another machine too. > > HTH, > > Sven Sven, I just ran into an issue in the Postgres V2 driver, which I guess is a porting error. See below and note the commas ",". PGConnection>>stSendingMD5Password: event "MD5 authentication as explain in http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-novice/2003-05/msg00305.php" | hashedCredentials hashedMessage | hashedCredentials := (MD5 hashMessage: (connectionArgs password, connectionArgs userName)) hex asLowercase. hashedMessage := 'md5', (MD5 hashMessage: (hashedCredentials, event salt asString)) hex asLowercase. self sendPacket: (PGPasswordPacket password: hashedMessage) on: socket.

Jan. 22, 2015

The Smalltalk Revolution is still going!

by horrido

My article "The Smalltalk Revolution" is a frickin' Energizer Bunny! It just keeps going and going and going... At this moment, it has surpassed 15K views and 8.1K reads. Instead of petering out, *as it appeared to be doing earlier this week*, it seems to be growing again! /I wonder what's going on??/ -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/The-Smalltalk-Revolution-is-still-going-tp4800873.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 22, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Mea Culpa

by horrido

hernanmd wrote >> It is unfortunate that I must use the Pharo forum for this purpose. The >> Smalltalk community is so terribly fragmented that there is no universal >> Smalltalk forum to address, at least, none that is actually *inhabited*. >> Without the ability to address the largest number of Smalltalkers, the >> SRP >> cannot make any progress. I'm sorry, but I have to be blunt. >> >> > Then maybe you should start your own Smalltalk mailing-list? A new mailing list that is uninhabited has no value for our campaign. If you create one, it may take months or years before a large number of Smalltalkers migrate to it. >> If anyone can offer a practical alternative, I'd like to hear it. >> Otherwise, >> the SRP has only two choices: >> >> 1) Continue what it is doing on the Pharo forum, and be mindful of which >> group(s) I am addressing. >> >> 2) Fold up the campaign and leave the destiny of Smalltalk to the Fates. >> Without the ability to reach out to Smalltalkers everywhere, I am >> hopelessly >> disadvantaged. >> >> > I am not that convinced Smalltalk should be popular. Surely any > smalltalker > could find easily (more) job offers, that would be the only determinant > factor because we need desperately more Smalltalk positions. But > popularity > has many drawbacks.... some smalltalkers are afraid to competition, and we > all read the StackOverflow 'popular' questions... There are people who don't care for Smalltalk's popularity, and there are people who really hope that Smalltalk becomes mainstream. I strongly suspect that the latter group is much larger. Smalltalk positions are relatively few and far between (at least, this is true in Canada). Becoming mainstream is the only way to improve this. Very few developers are willing to relocate. > So, my alternative is: Instead of broadcasting Smalltalk by traditional > internet advertising, go and get them. I suspect you won't get much from > us, we are some kind of Loyal Customers. But there are tons of > unexperienced developers lacking of fear to change, which are reading > Quora, StackExchange, Wikipedia, etc. And unexperienced developers are the > next business decision makers. In order to improve Smalltalk's popularity, it is necessary to harness the support and energy of the Smalltalk community. This is not a question of preaching to the converted; it's about getting help to convert others. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Mea-Culpa-tp4800840p4800872.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 22, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Mea Culpa

by HernÃ¡n Morales Durand

Hello Richard, 2015-01-21 17:12 GMT-03:00 horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com>: > Okay, so far, I've made two mistakes. First was my lack of sensitivity to > cultural differences around the world. Now that I know better, I shall do > better. You better take a lot of care writing about politics, sports, or whatever that could be considered Off-Topic. Some people is always looking for excuses to kick out offenders. And some others are monitoring with eagle eyes any out-of-order comment you can possibly write. Rules of the game. > Second was my failure to distinguish between different subgroups within the > Pharo forum. Welcome to Smalltalk :) > The reason I chose Pharo forum to discuss my campaign was the > fact that it is the most active Smalltalk forum there is. People who are > interested in Smalltalk join the most active forum generally, and this > includes not only Pharoers, but people from ESUG, Squeak, Cincom, Amber, > Redline, etc. > > Yes, this is parasitic behavior and well-known for biologists. Unfortunately I haven't seen many smalltalkers interested in on-line social behavior, probably because in such small community the most valuable asset is The Code, followed by The Documentation. Which of course, are excuses to get The Money. > So, for example, when I appealed for contributors to the Redline project, I > should've distinguished the target audience as those groups other than > Pharoers. This was my failure and I own up to it. > > It is unfortunate that I must use the Pharo forum for this purpose. The > Smalltalk community is so terribly fragmented that there is no universal > Smalltalk forum to address, at least, none that is actually *inhabited*. > Without the ability to address the largest number of Smalltalkers, the SRP > cannot make any progress. I'm sorry, but I have to be blunt. > > Then maybe you should start your own Smalltalk mailing-list? For spanish language we have ClubSmalltalk. Is a cross-smalltalk mailing list where people may write in other languages, but has become really low volume in the last years. And Smalltalk was (is?) very popular in Argentina, so you can get a dimension of how terribly small the community is. > If anyone can offer a practical alternative, I'd like to hear it. > Otherwise, > the SRP has only two choices: > > 1) Continue what it is doing on the Pharo forum, and be mindful of which > group(s) I am addressing. > > 2) Fold up the campaign and leave the destiny of Smalltalk to the Fates. > Without the ability to reach out to Smalltalkers everywhere, I am > hopelessly > disadvantaged. > > I am not that convinced Smalltalk should be popular. Surely any smalltalker could find easily (more) job offers, that would be the only determinant factor because we need desperately more Smalltalk positions. But popularity has many drawbacks.... some smalltalkers are afraid to competition, and we all read the StackOverflow 'popular' questions... So, my alternative is: Instead of broadcasting Smalltalk by traditional internet advertising, go and get them. I suspect you won't get much from us, we are some kind of Loyal Customers. But there are tons of unexperienced developers lacking of fear to change, which are reading Quora, StackExchange, Wikipedia, etc. And unexperienced developers are the next business decision makers. For example, see this articles which CS students read every day: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-ended_queue http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit_array http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_search_algorithm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_function http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_%28computer_science%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artificial_intelligence_projects http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_expression http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorting_algorithm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_machine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XML http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software No Smalltalk mention there. There you have it, the Library of Alexandria of our time, and people do not read about us. Cheers, HernÃ¡n > Regards, > Richard > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Mea-Culpa-tp4800840.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >

Jan. 22, 2015

The Smalltalk Report issue

by Rafael Luque

Hi Pharoers, I'm looking for The Smalltalk Report volume 6 issue 4 (1997) because I'd like to read the first article mentioning refactoring by Kent Beck: "Make it run, Make it right: Desing through Refactoring" published in this number. I've found the following archive from 1991 to 1996: http://www.macqueen.us/stIndex.html Anyone know where can I found this old issue or at least the article? Thank you.

Jan. 21, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Centering a Label with Spec

by Nicolai Hess

Hi Piotr, like you already found out, you can use whenBuiltDo: But instead of using #hResizing: , which is not explicit in specs api you can call the method hShrinkWrap (look in AbstractMorphicAdapter, protocol 'protocol'). Here is a small example with centering a label: | ui layout | ui := DynamicComposableModel new. ui title: 'hello'. ui instantiateModels: #( label LabelModel check CheckBoxModel text TextInputFieldModel button ButtonModel ). ui label text:'Hello World'. ui label whenBuiltDo:[: widget |widget widget hShrinkWrap.]. layout := SpecLayout composed newRow: [ :r | r add: #label] height: 25; yourself. ui openWithSpecLayout: layout. the block arguemt for whenBuiltDo: is a WidgetBuilt announcement, that gives you access to the model and the widget (-adapter) that is used. nicolai

Jan. 21, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] CommandLine handler and UTF8 path

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 21 Jan 2015, at 23:25, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 12:35 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > Hi Eliot, > > > On 20 Jan 2015, at 20:38, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 8:00 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > Command line arguments enter the image level via VirtualMachine>>#getSystemAttribute: > > > > At that point they are already Strings. > > > > ByteString, according to the primitive. So if the shell supplies e.g. UTF-8 strings for command-line parameters, which the VM sees as bytes, then the ByteString instances answered by getSystemAttribute: would need decoding, right? > > > > In your case, they must already be wrong at that point. > > > > Not necessarily. The getSystemAttribute: primitive doesn't do decoding. Perhaps it should. > > Yes, probably. I just tried on Mac OS X, Pharo 4: > > $ export FOO=Ã©lÃ¨ve-FranÃ§ais > > $ echo $FOO > Ã©lÃ¨ve-FranÃ§ais > > $ ./pharo Pharo.image eval 'OSPlatform current environment at: #FOO' > 'ÃÂ©lÃÂ¨ve-FranÃÂ§ais' > > $ ./pharo Pharo.image eval '(OSPlatform current environment at: #FOO) asByteArray utf8Decoded' > 'Ã©lÃ¨ve-FranÃ§ais' > > The question is, is this true for all platforms ? Windows ? > > I'm trying to test this in Pharo 3. I get > > KeyNotFound: key #FOO not found in PlatformIndependentEnvironment > PlatformIndependentEnvironment(OSEnvironment)>>at: in Block: [ KeyNotFound signalFor: aKey ] > UndefinedObject>>ifNil: > PlatformIndependentEnvironment(OSEnvironment)>>at:ifAbsent: > PlatformIndependentEnvironment(OSEnvironment)>>at: > UndefinedObject>>DoIt > OpalCompiler>>evaluate > OpalCompiler(AbstractCompiler)>>evaluate: > SmalltalkImage>>evaluate: > EvaluateCommandLineHandler>>evaluate: in Block: [ ... > BlockClosure>>on:do: > > > Does the environment access depend on NativeBoost? Yes, I believe so. > > > On 20 Jan 2015, at 16:51, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: > > > > > > Le 20/01/2015 16:34, Sven Van Caekenberghe a Ã©crit : > > >> No they are not - Strings and Characters in Pharo are using plain Unicode encoding internally. > > > > > > Thanks for the update, and the reference link. > > > > > > Hilaire > > > > > > -- > > > Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu > > > iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > best, > > Eliot > > > > > > -- > best, > Eliot

Jan. 21, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] CommandLine handler and UTF8 path

by Eliot Miranda

On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 12:35 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > Hi Eliot, > > > On 20 Jan 2015, at 20:38, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 8:00 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> > wrote: > > Command line arguments enter the image level via > VirtualMachine>>#getSystemAttribute: > > > > At that point they are already Strings. > > > > ByteString, according to the primitive. So if the shell supplies e.g. > UTF-8 strings for command-line parameters, which the VM sees as bytes, then > the ByteString instances answered by getSystemAttribute: would need > decoding, right? > > > > In your case, they must already be wrong at that point. > > > > Not necessarily. The getSystemAttribute: primitive doesn't do > decoding. Perhaps it should. > > Yes, probably. I just tried on Mac OS X, Pharo 4: > > $ export FOO=Ã©lÃ¨ve-FranÃ§ais > > $ echo $FOO > Ã©lÃ¨ve-FranÃ§ais > > $ ./pharo Pharo.image eval 'OSPlatform current environment at: #FOO' > 'ÃÂ©lÃÂ¨ve-FranÃÂ§ais' > > $ ./pharo Pharo.image eval '(OSPlatform current environment at: #FOO) > asByteArray utf8Decoded' > 'Ã©lÃ¨ve-FranÃ§ais' > > The question is, is this true for all platforms ? Windows ? > I'm trying to test this in Pharo 3. I get KeyNotFound: key #FOO not found in PlatformIndependentEnvironment PlatformIndependentEnvironment(OSEnvironment)>>at: in Block: [ KeyNotFound signalFor: aKey ] UndefinedObject>>ifNil: PlatformIndependentEnvironment(OSEnvironment)>>at:ifAbsent: PlatformIndependentEnvironment(OSEnvironment)>>at: UndefinedObject>>DoIt OpalCompiler>>evaluate OpalCompiler(AbstractCompiler)>>evaluate: SmalltalkImage>>evaluate: EvaluateCommandLineHandler>>evaluate: in Block: [ ... BlockClosure>>on:do: Does the environment access depend on NativeBoost? > > > On 20 Jan 2015, at 16:51, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: > > > > > > Le 20/01/2015 16:34, Sven Van Caekenberghe a Ã©crit : > > >> No they are not - Strings and Characters in Pharo are using plain > Unicode encoding internally. > > > > > > Thanks for the update, and the reference link. > > > > > > Hilaire > > > > > > -- > > > Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu > > > iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > best, > > Eliot > > > -- best, Eliot

Jan. 21, 2015