January 2015 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

smalltalk, objects and design - chamond liu

by Mayuresh Kathe

hello, would the book; smalltalk, objects and design by chamond liu be considered good to work through using "pharo"? i am currently working through; squeak, a quick trip to object-land. while nice as an introduction, doesn't feel like it might be deep enough for me as i progress further. i am looking at the pharo books, but, a previous discussion mentioned something about newer versions being in the works, would prefer to wait for them. ~mayuresh

Jan. 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] UI framework&design options

by Nicolai Hess

2015-01-25 18:52 GMT+01:00 Sebastian Heidbrink <sheidev(a)yahoo.de>: > Okay, .... I am new to the UI implementations and options in the Pharo > world and I am really confused. > > So, am I right to say. > - Polymorph is no more really the way to go? > - Spec is the official way to go right now? > - Roassal2 is the way to go for visualizations? > - Athens is well, I can't even say.... hmm interesting when it comes to > SVG? > athens is a api for doing 2d rendering (shapes, fill, strokes, ..). Roassal2 is built with athens. DrGeo (https://launchpad.net/drgeo) was ported to use athens. > - Glamour has to be seen in conjunction with Moose? I had a look into > GTSpotter and I have the feeling this took a long long time for > implementation. > - No e.g. Google material like UI possible since there are no frameworks > available to do animation stuff.... didn't Squeak and E-Toys do that? Is > there nothing left in Pharo? > - Lumiere or Roassal3D when it come to sprites? > > Are all of these framework compatible to each other? How much maintenance > and repair effort may I expect when I combine e.g. Spec with Morphic and > Roassal2? > > VASmalltalk has a very strong separation of UI-View and UI-Control layers. > Which Pharo framework could allow me t replace the look and feel of my > application without loosing my event handling/ control layers? > The look: there are different themes. And you can even use different themes per application (I think). The feel: I think pharos theming is only for the look, maybe keymappings are theme dependent. > > This is Smalltalk and this is objects, and I am bound so much to a > windowing representation? There is nothing I could do like with HTML5 and > css? Put some pictures in the world and just add event handlers to them? > This is, for sure, much more easier in squeak/pharo than with HTML5 and css. You can attach an eventhandler to any morph (ImageMorph for example). And you are not "bound to windowing representation". This is exactly what morphs are for: build, use and combine visible and active elements directly on the screen. (The problem is now, this is not what people expect. They expect an "application" with buttons and list and textfields. And this is why you need frameworks like polymorph, spec or glamour, in order to use commonly known widgets). > > So I might go with Spec and Morphic then? Glamour is more Moose? Or is > there a direction to deprecate one of them? > > Thanks for all you into so far. I'll carefully read all the so far > provided resources. > > Sebastian > > > > > > > On 2015-01-25 6:04 AM, Stephan Eggermont wrote: > >> That Maya Node Editor looks like a PasteUpMorph with Connectors to me. >> You'd might want to wrap them (Morphic) in a in a standard window >> with menu bar and toolbar from either Spec or Glamour for now. >> >> And then follow Bloc developments to move there. >> >> Stephan >> >> >> > >

Jan. 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] UI framework&design options

by Johan Fabry

Thatâs easy :-), the Pharo tools themselves are examples. Have a look at the hierarchy of ComposableModel. You will not only find the basic widgets there, but also all UIs built with Spec that are delivered in Pharo. A random example from that is the code critics browser CriticBrowser. You can also look at the LRP user interface if you want to see Roassal2 integration in action ( http://pleiad.cl/LRP <http://pleiad.cl/LRP> ) > On Jan 25, 2015, at 18:58, Sebastian Heidbrink <sheidev(a)yahoo.de> wrote: > > Hi! > > Is there any library or resource where I could have a look what others have done with Spec? > I have a hard time to find screenshots and additional information on what was used. > > Sebastian ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Jan. 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] UI framework&design options

by Johan Fabry

Hi, Iâll try to answer what I can ... Spec is the way to go, Roassal2 is the best visualization tool we have (and I think itâs excellent), Glamour is separate from Moose. If I may simplify: Spec is for any kind of traditional user interface, where Glamour is for a subset of that: those where there is a flow of data from one widget to a next widget and so on. Spec uses Morphic for its widgets, but is not tightly coupled to Morphic, the idea is to move on to other things later. Non-widget morphs can be incorporated in Spec windows, and Roassal2 visualizations also ( for example of the latter see my work on LRP http://pleiad.cl/LRP ). As long as I will be using Roassal2 (hopefully a long time) I can guarantee you that I will annoy the Roassal guys when integration with Spec breaks. In general this has never been a major issue, and I am quite sure that it never will be. > On Jan 25, 2015, at 18:52, Sebastian Heidbrink <sheidev(a)yahoo.de> wrote: > > Okay, .... I am new to the UI implementations and options in the Pharo world and I am really confused. > > So, am I right to say. > - Polymorph is no more really the way to go? > - Spec is the official way to go right now? > - Roassal2 is the way to go for visualizations? > - Athens is well, I can't even say.... hmm interesting when it comes to SVG? > - Glamour has to be seen in conjunction with Moose? I had a look into GTSpotter and I have the feeling this took a long long time for implementation. > - No e.g. Google material like UI possible since there are no frameworks available to do animation stuff.... didn't Squeak and E-Toys do that? Is there nothing left in Pharo? > - Lumiere or Roassal3D when it come to sprites? > > Are all of these framework compatible to each other? How much maintenance and repair effort may I expect when I combine e.g. Spec with Morphic and Roassal2? > > VASmalltalk has a very strong separation of UI-View and UI-Control layers. Which Pharo framework could allow me t replace the look and feel of my application without loosing my event handling/ control layers? > > This is Smalltalk and this is objects, and I am bound so much to a windowing representation? There is nothing I could do like with HTML5 and css? Put some pictures in the world and just add event handlers to them? > > So I might go with Spec and Morphic then? Glamour is more Moose? Or is there a direction to deprecate one of them? > > Thanks for all you into so far. I'll carefully read all the so far provided resources. > > Sebastian ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Jan. 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] improving print-it in playground

by Tudor Girba

Hi Sebastian, Thanks for the feedback. On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 6:24 PM, Sebastian Sastre < sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com> wrote: > Itâs really nice to see innovation in this area. I feel grateful for this > work. > > Here comes my UX notes > > *Things I like:* > > - Publish to the cloud > - Able to copy-paste the content of the box with feedback > - Encourages inspect of that very instance (this one was really good!) > - transforms the printed result to comment. > - clicking in the workspace makes the result disappear (good!) > - full selects the comment after enter so a second enter can clean it > - the shared snipped page has syntax highlight > > *Things that I see can be improved:* > > - the shared snippet page has a terrible design, the contrast issue is > probably the most severe, being unclean the second one > - the printed result transformed to comment gets injected at the cursor > position and that functionality doesnât really make much sense (having it > printed always at the end of the line you make more sense for example). > This is still under work. The current behavior is the same as the previous print-it. We are considering all this input and we'll come back with a proposal. - the inspect button doesnât look like a button and doesnât change the > cursor on hover > - No undo on cmd-z (this one feels like a deal-breaker) > What do you mean? Undo should work as expected (even after I insert the code in the editor). Could you give me a way to reproduce the problem? - The tab for me is a redundant feature with an unclean title (we have how > to recall different workspaces from the bottom bar already) > This is a work in progress. > - The icon to publish to the cloud looks like download from the cloud > (arrow points down instead of up) > Good point. I changed it. > - The inspector is surprisingly complex and abuses the use of tabs > What is complex? What do you mean by abuses the use of tabs? Could you give examples of what you saw and what you expected? In case you did not see it before, the GTInspector wants to be more than a classic inspector, so perhaps that is why the implementation does not seem to align with expectations. Here is a post that describes in some details the concept behind: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/the-moldable-gtinspector-deconstructed > - The inspector for Dictionary by default hides a naive observation of the > object and assumes that a âsmartâ object aware presentation hiding behind a > click the tree-like observation of instvars. > I am not sure what you are saying here, but If I understand correctly, you would prefer to see the raw tally and array of associations instead of a table as the first view for a dictionary. Is that is so, why do you find it a better representation? - Also in inspector the icon for browse looks like a document, doesnât feel > like a match > I am not happy with that one either, but I could not figure out a better one. Do you have a suggestion? > good work! > Thanks. Doru > > > > On Jan 19, 2015, at 5:33 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > I worked with Andrei to find a solution for improving the print-it > support. You can take a look here: > > http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/improving-print-it-support-in-gtplayg… > > The current solution can be found in the latest Pharo image. > > Cheers, > Doru > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Jan. 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] improving print-it in playground

by Sebastian Sastre

thanks for making easy to contribute! Expect PR anytime > On Jan 25, 2015, at 4:54 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > >> On 25 Jan 2015, at 18:59, Sebastian Sastre <sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com> wrote: >> >> Sure, Iâd gladly sent you a merge request to get that improved >> >> Let me know how I could take a look > > https://github.com/svenvc/zinc/tree/master/repository/Zinc-WWS-Server.packa… > > You can load this using ConfigurationOfZincHTTPComponents group 'WWS'. > > Start with the class comment of ZnWebWorkspaceDelegate > > the method you are looking for is #generatePageFor:withKey: > > Please touch only the HTML/CSS ;-) > > Thanks! > >>> On Jan 25, 2015, at 3:34 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On 25 Jan 2015, at 18:24, Sebastian Sastre <sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> - the shared snippet page has a terrible design, the contrast issue is probably the most severe, being unclean the second one >>> >>> He Seb, >>> >>> I designed that years ago over a WE - you're right, I am really good at design ;-) >>> >>> It is just one page, do you care to propose a make over in concrete html/css. If you want I can try to give you access to the code that generates it (it is not open source as yet). >>> >>> Sven >>> >>> >>> >> >> > >

Jan. 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] comparing FileReference

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Hi Martin, This is a valid question, as far as I can see, FileSystem does not resolve .. itself and leaves that to the underlying OS. Maybe we should turn this into an issue ? Sven > On 24 Jan 2015, at 09:37, Martin BÃ¤hr <mbaehr(a)email.archlab.tuwien.ac.at> wrote: > > hi, > > i can't seem to figure out how to normalizethe path of a FileReference > i am trying to compare > FileSystem disk root / 'local/lib' > with > Filesystem disk workingDirectory / '..' > > but they don't match because the latter produces: > File @ '/local/lib/pharo4/..' > > i'd expect to be able to compare two references as equal if they point to the > same directory on disk, regardless of the path getting there. > > is there any way to accomplish that? > > greetings, martin. > > -- > eKita - the online platform for your entire academic life > -- > chief engineer eKita.co > pike programmer pike.lysator.liu.se caudium.net societyserver.org > secretary beijinglug.org > mentor fossasia.org > foresight developer foresightlinux.org realss.com > unix sysadmin > Martin BÃ¤hr working in china http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/ >

Jan. 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] improving print-it in playground

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 25 Jan 2015, at 18:59, Sebastian Sastre <sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com> wrote: > > Sure, Iâd gladly sent you a merge request to get that improved > > Let me know how I could take a look https://github.com/svenvc/zinc/tree/master/repository/Zinc-WWS-Server.packa… You can load this using ConfigurationOfZincHTTPComponents group 'WWS'. Start with the class comment of ZnWebWorkspaceDelegate the method you are looking for is #generatePageFor:withKey: Please touch only the HTML/CSS ;-) Thanks! >> On Jan 25, 2015, at 3:34 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >> >> >>> On 25 Jan 2015, at 18:24, Sebastian Sastre <sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com> wrote: >>> >>> - the shared snippet page has a terrible design, the contrast issue is probably the most severe, being unclean the second one >> >> He Seb, >> >> I designed that years ago over a WE - you're right, I am really good at design ;-) >> >> It is just one page, do you care to propose a make over in concrete html/css. If you want I can try to give you access to the code that generates it (it is not open source as yet). >> >> Sven >> >> >> > >

Jan. 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] when was pharo announced to the world?

by Norbert Hartl

> Am 25.01.2015 um 17:13 schrieb Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>: > > >> On 25 Jan 2015, at 13:48, Mayuresh Kathe <mayuresh(a)kathe.in> wrote: >> >> hi sven, >> >> yes, i did look at it from a birthday perspective. >> and yes, it would be nice if stephane or marcus do suggest a date. :) > > we started sometime in 2008. I know that discussions started very early > (Jan, Feb?), e.g to find a name. > > But it was announced laterâ¦ I guess I would need to dig in the old mails > to find the exact date. > I have mails with that discussion in april. On may 1st it was phare which didn't succeed Norbert > > >

Jan. 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo Sound of Silence

by Evan Donahue

64-bit Arch linux 3.17.6-1-ARCH I seem to be running pulse-audio with alsa, and I believe I have all the 32-compadibility libraries installed, but my experience with linux sound is limited. What is Pharo expecting? Thanks, Evan -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Sound-of-Silence-tp4801562p4801584.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 25, 2015