September 2014 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] Your picture on Pharo contributors :)

by Ben Coman

Trygve Reenskaug wrote: > With all due respect, I am reluctant to sign this agreement. It > commits me to whatever might be published at the given URL at any time > in the future. I wonder why you didn't make the agreement concrete by > copying the current text into it? And I thought that I paid attention to these things, but I never noticed this. I think this sounds reasonable, and indeed beneficial. cheers -ben > > Current contents of <http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.php>: > > "Copyright (c) <year> <copyright holders> > > Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person > obtaining a copy > of this software and associated documentation files (the > "Software"), to deal > in the Software without restriction, including without limitation > the rights > to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, > and/or sell > copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is > furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions: > > The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be > included in > all copies or substantial portions of the Software. > > THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, > EXPRESS OR > IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF > MERCHANTABILITY, > FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT > SHALL THE > AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER > LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, > ARISING FROM, > OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER > DEALINGS IN > THE SOFTWARE." > > I have no problem with signing this, but I have a problem with signing a > carte blanche. > --Trygve > > > > On 26.09.2014 07:25, stepharo wrote: >> Hi guys >> >> do not forget to sign the license agreement >> http://files.pharo.org/media/PharoSoftwareDistributionAgreement.pdf >> and send us your picture to be added to >> http://pharo.org/about >> >> Stef >> >> >> >> >> > > -- > > Trygve Reenskaug mailto: trygver(a)ifi.uio.no > Morgedalsvn. 5A http://folk.uio.no/trygver/ > N-0378 Oslo http://fullOO.info > Norway Tel: (+47) 22 49 57 27

Sept. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] invoking python from pharo

by Ben Coman

kilon alios wrote: > Hi there, I promised to do this a long time ago, but since you asked it > I done it now. > > So as Ben said I am the author of Ephestos, a communication bridge > between Blender and Pharo . > > To go directly to the how to . Ephestos is basically a socket bridge > that send via sockets strings from pharo to python that then python > executes as python commands. > > Ephestos is made so it works inside blender but I promised Atals a spin > off project that allows the same socket bridge to be used as a > standalone. To use do the following. > > 1) Get Ephestos , you can find it and install it with the configuration > browser in your image in Pharo 3 and Pharo 4. Make sure you have a > recent release though because I added it recently. > > 2) Get pyAtlas , this is the python side , you can get it from here > --> https://github.com/kilon/pyAtlas > > 3) in your command line cd to the pyAtlas directory and execute : > python3 pyAtlas.py > > 4) in Pharo you can now try any python code you want > > for example > > Ephestos sendMessage: 'print("hello world")'. > Ephestos sendMessage: 'x = 3'. > x := Ephestos getValue: 'x'. > x inspect. > > Ephestos sendMessage: string, basically sends the python command to be > executes while getValue: sends the command and returns a value as a string. > > you can use string 'exit' to close the socket bridge but this part is > buggy as it seems to keep the binding of the sokcet active and I have to > wait to clean it up in macos to reopen the bridge. > > You can also use pharo syntax and python errors will trigger the pharo > debugger with a title the python error itself. > > You can find more information about Ephestos in my gitbook that can be > read here > > https://www.gitbook.io/book/kilon/ephestos > > Also I forgot to add that sendMessage can send multiline strings , so > its possible to send python class definitions and other stuff, you type > the string exactly as you would type python code respecting whitespaces. > If you want to execute loads of lines of python code then it would be > better to put your code in a python module and do > > Ephestos sendMessage: 'import mymodule' > > assuming your module is called 'mymodule' , python import basically are > executions of code. > > If you have any questions just ask. > > Bare in mind this is a socket bridge so its not ideal for sending > thousands of messages per second and you may run into the occasional bug > or two which I will fix if you report it. Nonetheless it should allow > you to execute any kind of code and not just call python functions or > python methods. > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 7:40 PM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com > <mailto:btc@openinworld.com>> wrote: > > __ > Pablo R. Digonzelli wrote: >> Hi all , I need to invoke python rutines from Pharo. I need some >> orientation about the best way to do it. >> TIA >> >> **** >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *Ing. Pablo Digonzelli* >> Software Solutions >> IP-Solutiones SRL >> Metrotec SRL >> 25 de Mayo 521 >> Email: pdigonzelli(a)softsargentina.com >> <mailto:pdigonzelli@softsargentina.com> >> pdigonzelli(a)gmail.com <mailto:pdigonzelli@gmail.com> >> Cel: 5493815982714 > > Search the [pharo-dev] list for Ephestos by kilon. > cheers -ben > > I was going to say... "invoking python from Pharo" with Ephestos/Atlas would make a good chapter for Pharo For The Enterprise, but that book is actually pretty full. With other things like OSWindow and SDL coming along, I wonder if there might be a new book called "Phoreign Pharo" to accumulate solutions to access the world outside the Image. cheers -ben

Sept. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] How to set a white background with Spec ?

by Johan Fabry

I have not tried this, I just browsed the documentation, but I am putting it here as this process usually is the right way to find answers to these questions: I looked at the spec class for windows: WindowModel and the âprotocol' protocol to see its configuration options. None mention color. I looked at the superclass: AbstractWindowModel, and the âprotocolâ protocol does have a color: setter. So if you have a reference to the WindowModel for the window you are using, you should be able to set the color. Please tell me if this works for you. I think this question is a good candidate for updating the documentation. On Sep 26, 2014, at 6:11 AM, Annick Fron <list(a)afceurope.com> wrote: > Hi, > > I am using a window with spec, where can I define a white background for it ? > > Annick > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Sept. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Passed by references and by value

by Henrik Johansen

On 26 Sep 2014, at 8:24 , Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On 25 Sep 2014, at 20:28, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> 2014-09-25 15:14 GMT-03:00 nacho <0800nacho(a)gmail.com>: >>> Hi, >>> In PBE says that ordinary objects' ivars are passed by references and small >>> integers are passed by value. >>> Is there a way to know if a class is passed by reference or by value? >> >>> Only small integers are passed as value? >> >> Yes. >> >> It has to do with the object headers, SmallIntegers are embedded in the OH. >> > > In the *reference*, not the header. The reference points to a header for a normal > object, for small-integers the reference *is* the integer value. This means that > there is no header for the integers. > > Marcus So, a succinct phrasing indifferent to object format, using a relatively well-defined term, would be: Only immediate objects are passed by value. (Which means you have to explain immediate objects, as markus did) Cheers, Henry

Sept. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Ridiculous we are

by Henrik Johansen

On 25 Sep 2014, at 8:55 , Alain Rastoul <alf.mmm.cat(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Le 25/09/2014 07:23, Sven Van Caekenberghe a Ã©crit : >> >> On 25 Sep 2014, at 01:04, Alain Rastoul <alf.mmm.cat(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Le 25/09/2014 00:06, Sven Van Caekenberghe a Ã©crit : >>>> Alain, >>> >>>> The character encoding situation in Pharo is pretty good actually. The only problem is that there is some old school code left that encodes strings into strings, but today you can easily write much better and conceptually correct code. >>>> >>>> You could have a look at this draft chapter of the upcoming 'Enterprise Pharo' book that I am currently writing: >>>> >>>> http://stfx.eu/EnterprisePharo/Zinc-Encoding-Meta/ >>>> >>>> Concerning file system paths, FilePathEncoder and FilePluginPrimitives already do the right thing. >>>> >>>> Now, your idea about using UTF-8 to represent internal Strings is something that has been discussed before and in many other languages as well. The short answer is that due to it being variable length, the inefficiency is (probably) just too high. Simple indexed access becomes a problem, let alone more complex string manipulations. I am not saying that it cannot be done, I think it is just not worth the trouble. The current solution in Pharo with ByteString and WideString is quite nice (check the chapter I mentioned before). >>>> >>>> Sven >>>> >>> Very interesting ! >>> It seems that most of what I was saying is already here :) >>> I was not saying that Pharo should use utf8 (I mentionned utf8 because it is a standard, but I find the variable length encoding very weird), I was rather talking of using WideString in UTF 16 or 32 and that's done. >>> I saw asWideString but didn't know about automatic convertion or codepoint selector and internal wide string support. >>> Does it means that Pharo Greek users (for example) use WideString for Strings without having to specify it or make explicit convertions (except of course when dealing with bytes if they want to) ? >>> If yes, very good, job is almost done :) >>> (personnally I would also deprecate ByteString, and get rid of it, just my opinion). >>> Thanks for the link, another good chapter . >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Alain >> >> ByteString is important because it is an optimalization of the most common case. > > I understand the point here, memory/data footprint, cpu cache and so on (not talking of encoding/decoding). > I think that's why Microsoft choosed UTF16 (old UCS2) as a middle solution because it covers most of character sets with 2 bytes. It used to be a middle solution, back when UCS2 could encode the entire defined Unicode set. Novadays it's just the worst of both worlds; you waste memory for most normal text, *and* you don't have constant time indexed code point access. The duality we have in Pharo is an attempt to achieve the *best* of both worlds, wasting little memory for the "normal" case (latin1), and maintain constant time indexed access in all cases. The ultimate solution for this approach would have a trio of string classes with slot sizes 8 - 16 - 32 expanding / contracting as needed, but we don't have classes with variable short slots. (currently, they're planned in new Cog, if I've understood Eliots new object format correctly) Cheers, Henry

Sept. 26, 2014

How to set a white background with Spec ?

by Annick Fron

Hi, I am using a window with spec, where can I define a white background for it ? Annick

Sept. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] invoking python from pharo

by kilon alios

have you tried Ephestos ? does it work for you ? do you like the way it works ? what you want to do with it ? I would appreciate some feedback. It does work well for me so far, but of course I want to read other people's opinion about it. I want to make it very easy for pharoers to port python libraries to pharo and mix pharo and python code or why not even support other languages. For example this morning I was looking at Meteor.js which is working similarly to Ephestos in the sense it uses a socket to send data from client to server that then server uses that data to update the webpage, it means that javascript can code this way in a live coding workflow web apps and web pages. Of course Meteor.js is far more sophisticated with database support, template support, authorisation and much more. On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 11:26 PM, Pablo R. Digonzelli <pdigonzelli(a)gmail.com > wrote: > Excellent, I will waiting ... > > > ------------------------------ > *Ing. Pablo Digonzelli* > Software Solutions > IP-Solutiones SRL > Metrotec SRL > 25 de Mayo 521 > Email: pdigonzelli(a)softsargentina.com > pdigonzelli(a)gmail.com > Cel: 5493815982714 > > ------------------------------ > *De: *"kilon alios" <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> > *Para: *"Any question about pharo is welcome" <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org > > > *Enviados: *Jueves, 25 de Septiembre 2014 16:01:08 > > *Asunto: *Re: [Pharo-users] invoking python from pharo > > Its far from excellent. Its not as tested as I want it to be, and the code > could be much better but it works and makes interfacing with python code > very easy. > Its also an ongoing project that I will keep adding feature to , for > example I would like to extend pharo syntax to more complex stuff than > calling python methods like defining python classes etc so you wont have to > use sendMessage and getValue at all and not have to write a line of python > code. In short do all your python coding using 100% pharo syntax. But that > will take a lot of time to do because it will require a fully python syntax > parser. > I have updated the code to resolve the error when issuing a command to > close the bridge with > > Ephestos sendMessage:'exit'. > > This command basically terminate pyAtlas and closes it server socket. > > I dont know if its Pharo or Python or Macos but it looks like it takes > time to free up the socket address so you will need 20 seconds to restart > pyAtlas again. I tried to set the timeout of the socket to 1 second but it > looks to me it still uses the default 20 seconds timeout. I guess 20 sec is > not that bad for a pre alpha software :D > > But anyway that should not be a problem since you will have to rerun > pyatlas every 20 sec , which is something you would not want to do . > > I was actually planning to test Ephestos with pyQT and pyCuda and make a > youtube video about it but have not found the time yet. Probably in the > weekend. > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 9:23 PM, Pablo R. Digonzelli < > pdigonzelli(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Yes , I was aware of the excellent work of kilon. >> I was hoping that this be the way to solve my issue. >> >> Thanks kilon, I will follow your instructions and comment the results >> into the list. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *Ing. Pablo Digonzelli* >> Software Solutions >> IP-Solutiones SRL >> Metrotec SRL >> 25 de Mayo 521 >> Email: pdigonzelli(a)softsargentina.com >> pdigonzelli(a)gmail.com >> Cel: 5493815982714 >> >> ------------------------------ >> *De: *"kilon alios" <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> >> *Para: *"Any question about pharo is welcome" < >> pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> >> *Enviados: *Jueves, 25 de Septiembre 2014 14:13:34 >> *Asunto: *Re: [Pharo-users] invoking python from pharo >> >> a minor correction to the previous email its >> python3 pyatlas.py and not python3 pyAtlas.py >> >> also I forgot to make clear that it works for pyhton 2.7 and python 3. >> >> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 8:11 PM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi there, I promised to do this a long time ago, but since you asked it >>> I done it now. >>> So as Ben said I am the author of Ephestos, a communication bridge >>> between Blender and Pharo . >>> >>> To go directly to the how to . Ephestos is basically a socket bridge >>> that send via sockets strings from pharo to python that then python >>> executes as python commands. >>> >>> Ephestos is made so it works inside blender but I promised Atals a spin >>> off project that allows the same socket bridge to be used as a standalone. >>> To use do the following. >>> >>> 1) Get Ephestos , you can find it and install it with the configuration >>> browser in your image in Pharo 3 and Pharo 4. Make sure you have a recent >>> release though because I added it recently. >>> >>> 2) Get pyAtlas , this is the python side , you can get it from here --> >>> https://github.com/kilon/pyAtlas >>> >>> 3) in your command line cd to the pyAtlas directory and execute : >>> python3 pyAtlas.py >>> >>> 4) in Pharo you can now try any python code you want >>> >>> for example >>> >>> Ephestos sendMessage: 'print("hello world")'. >>> Ephestos sendMessage: 'x = 3'. >>> x := Ephestos getValue: 'x'. >>> x inspect. >>> >>> Ephestos sendMessage: string, basically sends the python command to be >>> executes while getValue: sends the command and returns a value as a string. >>> >>> you can use string 'exit' to close the socket bridge but this part is >>> buggy as it seems to keep the binding of the sokcet active and I have to >>> wait to clean it up in macos to reopen the bridge. >>> >>> You can also use pharo syntax and python errors will trigger the pharo >>> debugger with a title the python error itself. >>> >>> You can find more information about Ephestos in my gitbook that can be >>> read here >>> >>> https://www.gitbook.io/book/kilon/ephestos >>> >>> Also I forgot to add that sendMessage can send multiline strings , so >>> its possible to send python class definitions and other stuff, you type the >>> string exactly as you would type python code respecting whitespaces. If you >>> want to execute loads of lines of python code then it would be better to >>> put your code in a python module and do >>> >>> Ephestos sendMessage: 'import mymodule' >>> >>> assuming your module is called 'mymodule' , python import basically are >>> executions of code. >>> >>> If you have any questions just ask. >>> >>> Bare in mind this is a socket bridge so its not ideal for sending >>> thousands of messages per second and you may run into the occasional bug or >>> two which I will fix if you report it. Nonetheless it should allow you to >>> execute any kind of code and not just call python functions or python >>> methods. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 7:40 PM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Pablo R. Digonzelli wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi all , I need to invoke python rutines from Pharo. I need some >>>> orientation about the best way to do it. >>>> TIA >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *Ing. Pablo Digonzelli* >>>> Software Solutions >>>> IP-Solutiones SRL >>>> Metrotec SRL >>>> 25 de Mayo 521 >>>> Email: pdigonzelli(a)softsargentina.com >>>> pdigonzelli(a)gmail.com >>>> Cel: 5493815982714 >>>> >>>> >>>> Search the [pharo-dev] list for Ephestos by kilon. >>>> cheers -ben >>>> >>> >>> >> >

Sept. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Your picture on Pharo contributors :)

by Trygve Reenskaug

With all due respect, I am reluctant to sign this agreement. It commits me to whatever might be published at the given URL at any time in the future. I wonder why you didn't make the agreement concrete by copying the current text into it? Current contents of <http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.php>: "Copyright (c) <year> <copyright holders> Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions: The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software. THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE." I have no problem with signing this, but I have a problem with signing a carte blanche. --Trygve On 26.09.2014 07:25, stepharo wrote: > Hi guys > > do not forget to sign the license agreement > http://files.pharo.org/media/PharoSoftwareDistributionAgreement.pdf > and send us your picture to be added to > http://pharo.org/about > > Stef > > > > > -- Trygve Reenskaug mailto: trygver(a)ifi.uio.no Morgedalsvn. 5A http://folk.uio.no/trygver/ N-0378 Oslo http://fullOO.info Norway Tel: (+47) 22 49 57 27

Sept. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Passed by references and by value

by Marcus Denker

On 25 Sep 2014, at 20:28, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > 2014-09-25 15:14 GMT-03:00 nacho <0800nacho(a)gmail.com>: >> Hi, >> In PBE says that ordinary objects' ivars are passed by references and small >> integers are passed by value. >> Is there a way to know if a class is passed by reference or by value? > >> Only small integers are passed as value? > > Yes. > > It has to do with the object headers, SmallIntegers are embedded in the OH. > In the *reference*, not the header. The reference points to a header for a normal object, for small-integers the reference *is* the integer value. This means that there is no header for the integers. Marcus

Sept. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Passed by references and by value

by Marcus Denker

On 26 Sep 2014, at 08:07, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Depending on the VM you use, different objects are passed by values. > > Currently -> only smallintegers > on Spur 32 bits VM -> smallintegers and characters > on Spur 64 bits VM -> smallintegers, characters and smallfloat > > But as Stef said it does not really matter in smalltalk. > Yes, even for these cases you pass the *reference*, only that the reference happens to encode the value. Marcus

Sept. 26, 2014