August 2014 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Can Pharo meet all your computing needs?

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 26 Aug 2014, at 01:33, Wilfred Hughes <me(a)wilfred.me.uk> wrote: > Sounds like the Dynabook goal rather overlaps with that of Lisp Machines. The idea of a single system that allows you to modify any part at runtime, inspect any part, or drop into a debugger anywhere is extremely powerful and wonderful to work with. +10 That is, for me, one of the core points. Open source means nothing if you cannot read the code, do not understand it, cannot change it - easily. It is not just about being able to do it, but how big the barrier is. And it also includes the idea of documentation, tools, environment, live objects and being able to learn. Sven -- Sven Van Caekenberghe http://stfx.eu Smalltalk is the Red Pill

Aug. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Can Pharo meet all your computing needs?

by Trygve Reenskaug

It's very vague; I'm thinking as I write. My off-the-cuff answer: Start from Alan's definition of object orientation: "/... Thus its semantics are a bit like having thousands and thousands of computers all hooked together by a very fast network./" The BOOK consists of its own objects as well as objects anywhere on the net. The remote objects may be written by anybody in any language, but they communicate with the BOOK according to a fixed message interaction contract. (Contrast with procedure call interfaces). There will be many ways for linking users with producers. Google? Alan Kay once said something like "an operating system is what the language designers omitted to include in their language". Smalltalk was built directly on top of the hardware microcode; it was its own operating system rather than an app. The BOOK should be similar. More like iOS than an app. This is fun --Trygve ------------------- /I am using the term BOOK rather than Dynabook because Alan Kay has the moral copyright to the latter and he may not agree with what we are doing./ On 25.08.2014 16:15, S Krish wrote: > > " The Dynabook SW architecture must be open so that owners can safely > install functionality ('apps') that is available in a marketplace. > (The i-pad with its hardware and its marketplace for apps is at the > back of my mind.)" > > > Can the intent be expanded a bit more. Is this an intent to have a > Pharo / ST / Dynabook based marketplace or more extensive ? > > > On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 3:33 PM, Trygve Reenskaug <trygver(a)ifi.uio.no > <mailto:trygver@ifi.uio.no>> wrote: > > I don't think the current Smalltalk architecture can meet all your > computing needs because security isn't part of its core and > because it is inconceivable that all the necessary programs can be > developed within its boundaries. > > Like several people I met at ESUG, my goal is the Dynabook and the > Dynabook shall, by definition, meet all your needs. A Dynabook > must be safe so that its owner is protected from hackers and other > evildoers. The Dynabook SW architecture must be open so that > owners can safely install functionality ('apps') that is > available in a marketplace. (The i-pad with its hardware and its > marketplace for apps is at the back of my mind.) > > I can only see one path from here to there. Start from e.g., Pharo > and simplify it to create a Dynabook architecture with owner > programming and with opening for safely adding functionality > safely ad lib. (I suppose this is an ST based OS?) > > Any takers? > --Trygve > > > > On 23.08.2014 17:04, Wilfred Hughes wrote: >> Hi folks >> >> I've been playing with Pharo recently, and really enjoying >> writing some programs in the Pharo environment. >> >> As a result, I've been wondering if I can use Pharo the way I >> would use Emacs, as an environment for doing everything. >> >> For example, can I use Pharo to: >> >> * Send emails to this mailing list? >> * Use IRC? >> * Start Bash? >> * Read the Pharo documentation (e.g. Pharo By Example)? >> >> If these things do exist, how do I discover them? Is there a >> package manager I can use to find new tools I can use in Pharo? > >

Aug. 26, 2014

DCI

by Trygve Reenskaug

Hi Dan, You made me very happy when you made it to my talk on Thursday. It was impossible for me to present a new paradigm in less than 30 minutes, but I hope I triggered your curiosity. I think your best next step would be to read my article on the DCI Execution model http://fulloo.info/Documents/DCIExecutionModel-2.1.pdf (I hope you will put me right where I have misunderstood something.) The simplest possible example that illustrates the DCI concepts is /BB5BankTransfer/. You can run it and browse its code in my current DCI Squeak image http://fulloo.info/Downloads/BabyIDE-3.zip It would be great if we could do serious work on a realization of the Dynabook dream together. Pharo may be a good starting point because its community seems very open to new ideas. Cheers --Trygve PS. The BabyIDE is an application browser rather than a class browser. There is a kind of user manual embedded in this old article http://fulloo.info/Documents/200904commonsense.pdf PPS. I stick to a very old image because I cannot as yet file out DCI Contexts and role methods. Bootstrap to a better image is therefore impracticable.

Aug. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Can Pharo meet all your computing needs?

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

Hi Wilfred and welcome, I have been lurking at the Smalltalk/Squeak community like from ten years when I used Etoys, Bots Inc and Scratch to teach newbies an introductory course on "informatics" (which has a part related with programming) and after a while I got here at the Pharo community, where I lurked here for a while but now, because of my PhD research, which is related with mutual modification between communities and digital artifacts, I try to explore Pharo as a medium for exploring some ideas about that and I think it can't be done without a first hands on experience on the environment and the actual code writing, so I'm trying to become a more active participant, but I'm still a newbie. Anyway, from newbie to newbie, welcome again. About the dynabook and its vision I would recommend "Tracing the Dynabook: A Study of Technocultural Transformations" by John W Maxwell at [1]. In fact, on this book Maxwell claims that Smalltalk didn't loose (in popularity and defining the common computer experience) against another programming languages, it lost against the Operative System paradigm, and its idea of having different small tools connected mainly by pipes and files, mainly non-interactive, mainly binary and without any unifying conceptual framework beyond files and pipes. I think he's right. [1] http://tkbr.ccsp.sfu.ca/dynabook/ Besides SqueakNOS you can see some ideas inspired in Smalltak and the Dynabook vision in the EtoileOS[2]. The authors are not trying to repeat the OS paradigm, but trying to rethink it from a Smalltalk perspective, with practical considerations about bridging what we have now in C [3] and the apps world [4] with what can be done/thought from a Dynabook inspired vision. [2] http://etoileos.com/ [3] http://etoileos.com/news/archive/2012/08/19/1308/ [4] http://etoileos.com/news/archive/2012/04/30/1825/ Regarding myself and my own approach to make this ideas viable in my current context, specifically on what is concerned with creation of rich documentation and something like a modest "Dynabooklet", I'm trying to get the writing experience of Leo[5], which is an outliner that has the property of making it's own tree structure available to make it scriptable in Python (any node of the tree can contain python code which can traverse and process the tree in particular ways) to something similar in Smalltalk, with the advantage of an integrated and explorable inmersive dynamic environment. My idea is to make and environment where I can write my own PhD thesis[7] (at this moment I'm writing it with Leo + LaTeX with advances like this [8]), but also to teach some Data Narratives[9] and Indie Web[10][11]. I'm trying to combine Python and Smalltalk in modest ways or at least to create some cross-pollination of ideas. [5] http://leoeditor.com/ [6] http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Offray/Ubakye/ [7] http://mutabit.com/offray/static/blog/output/posts/la-forma-en-que-escribo-… [8] http://mutabit.com/deltas/repos.fossil/doctorado-offray/doc/tip/Tesis/Exame… [9] http://mutabit.com/offray/static/blog/output/posts/borrachos-bochinche-futb… [10] http://mutabit.com/offray/static/blog/output/posts/indie-science-indie-web-… [11] http://indiewebcamp.com/ So, I think Pharo can bootstrap the dynabook vision of and environment for your computer needs and make it viable in different ways, even for a single person or a small community if this is connected with the rest of the environment and experiences on what we have now. My examples are just humble approaches on my attempts to do that, but I hope that this can show you a lot of interesting stuff that can be done as a novice or as an expert with the help of the community and the persons here. Cheers, Offray On 08/25/2014 06:33 PM, Wilfred Hughes wrote: > Sounds like the Dynabook goal rather overlaps with that of Lisp Machines. The > idea of a single system that allows you to modify any part at runtime, inspect > any part, or drop into a debugger anywhere is extremely powerful and wonderful > to work with. > > Emacs gets quite close to this, but... it's Emacs lisp. I've used worse > languages, but elisp was not intended to be a general purpose application > programming language. Smalltalk is, which is why Pharo excites me. > > Once you start 'living' in a single environment, you customise it to meet your > needs and can contribute the reusable parts to the wider community. This > produces a virtuous circle of the tools getting better. A package manager that > makes it easy to distribute your work is crucial in this. > > Sounds like the first step for me is to start using the Pharo file browser and > command shell and to see how it fits my workflow :) > > > On 25 August 2014 15:15, S Krish <krishnamachari.sudhakar(a)gmail.com > <mailto:krishnamachari.sudhakar@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > " The Dynabook SW architecture must be open so that owners can safely > install functionality ('apps') that is available in a marketplace. (The > i-pad with its hardware and its marketplace for apps is at the back of my > mind.)" > > > Can the intent be expanded a bit more. Is this an intent to have a Pharo / > ST / Dynabook based marketplace or more extensive ? > > > > On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 3:33 PM, Trygve Reenskaug <trygver(a)ifi.uio.no > <mailto:trygver@ifi.uio.no>> wrote: > > I don't think the current Smalltalk architecture can meet all your > computing needs because security isn't part of its core and because it > is inconceivable that all the necessary programs can be developed within > its boundaries. > > Like several people I met at ESUG, my goal is the Dynabook and the > Dynabook shall, by definition, meet all your needs. A Dynabook must be > safe so that its owner is protected from hackers and other evildoers. > The Dynabook SW architecture must be open so that owners can safely > install functionality ('apps') that is available in a marketplace. (The > i-pad with its hardware and its marketplace for apps is at the back of > my mind.) > > I can only see one path from here to there. Start from e.g., Pharo and > simplify it to create a Dynabook architecture with owner programming and > with opening for safely adding functionality safely ad lib. (I suppose > this is an ST based OS?) > > Any takers? > --Trygve > > > > On 23.08.2014 17:04, Wilfred Hughes wrote: >> Hi folks >> >> I've been playing with Pharo recently, and really enjoying writing >> some programs in the Pharo environment. >> >> As a result, I've been wondering if I can use Pharo the way I would >> use Emacs, as an environment for doing everything. >> >> For example, can I use Pharo to: >> >> * Send emails to this mailing list? >> * Use IRC? >> * Start Bash? >> * Read the Pharo documentation (e.g. Pharo By Example)? >> >> If these things do exist, how do I discover them? Is there a package >> manager I can use to find new tools I can use in Pharo? > > >

Aug. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Can Pharo meet all your computing needs?

by Wilfred Hughes

Sounds like the Dynabook goal rather overlaps with that of Lisp Machines. The idea of a single system that allows you to modify any part at runtime, inspect any part, or drop into a debugger anywhere is extremely powerful and wonderful to work with. Emacs gets quite close to this, but... it's Emacs lisp. I've used worse languages, but elisp was not intended to be a general purpose application programming language. Smalltalk is, which is why Pharo excites me. Once you start 'living' in a single environment, you customise it to meet your needs and can contribute the reusable parts to the wider community. This produces a virtuous circle of the tools getting better. A package manager that makes it easy to distribute your work is crucial in this. Sounds like the first step for me is to start using the Pharo file browser and command shell and to see how it fits my workflow :) On 25 August 2014 15:15, S Krish <krishnamachari.sudhakar(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > " The Dynabook SW architecture must be open so that owners can safely > install functionality ('apps') that is available in a marketplace. (The > i-pad with its hardware and its marketplace for apps is at the back of my > mind.)" > > > Can the intent be expanded a bit more. Is this an intent to have a Pharo / > ST / Dynabook based marketplace or more extensive ? > > > > On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 3:33 PM, Trygve Reenskaug <trygver(a)ifi.uio.no> > wrote: > >> I don't think the current Smalltalk architecture can meet all your >> computing needs because security isn't part of its core and because it is >> inconceivable that all the necessary programs can be developed within its >> boundaries. >> >> Like several people I met at ESUG, my goal is the Dynabook and the >> Dynabook shall, by definition, meet all your needs. A Dynabook must be safe >> so that its owner is protected from hackers and other evildoers. The >> Dynabook SW architecture must be open so that owners can safely install >> functionality ('apps') that is available in a marketplace. (The i-pad >> with its hardware and its marketplace for apps is at the back of my mind.) >> >> I can only see one path from here to there. Start from e.g., Pharo and >> simplify it to create a Dynabook architecture with owner programming and >> with opening for safely adding functionality safely ad lib. (I suppose >> this is an ST based OS?) >> >> Any takers? >> --Trygve >> >> >> >> On 23.08.2014 17:04, Wilfred Hughes wrote: >> >> Hi folks >> >> I've been playing with Pharo recently, and really enjoying writing some >> programs in the Pharo environment. >> >> As a result, I've been wondering if I can use Pharo the way I would use >> Emacs, as an environment for doing everything. >> >> For example, can I use Pharo to: >> >> * Send emails to this mailing list? >> * Use IRC? >> * Start Bash? >> * Read the Pharo documentation (e.g. Pharo By Example)? >> >> If these things do exist, how do I discover them? Is there a package >> manager I can use to find new tools I can use in Pharo? >> >> >> >

Aug. 25, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Workbook, exercises and problems

by Sean P. DeNigris

Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote > the best book is actually AndrÃ©s Valloud's "A mentoring course on > Smalltalk" - I can guarantee you it will blow your mind ;-) +1. This book is too good to be written by a human. I think it was channeled from the programming gods :) ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Workbook-exercises-and-problems-tp4774634p4774706.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Aug. 25, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Workbook, exercises and problems

by Ignacio MatÃas Sniechowski

Stef, The project is not abandoned, it is still open to anyone. I simply stopped because it was supposed to be a collaborative effort....and there was not even a single contribution beside you and me. But I'm available to work again if there are contributions to add. best reagards Nacho *Lic. Ignacio Sniechowski, MBA* On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 4:19 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > Ignaciostarted to write the ST99 problems in the pfte > but he stopped after a couple of them. > https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/PharoForTheEnterprise/745/ > artifact/ > > The problem with little problems is that sometimes you can write them in a > single method so there not really exciting. > Now if you want you can try to take the list and implement them. We will > comment them and help you. > > Now if you do some little programs like the quinto game without ui, or > agile kata > > http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~zeroflag/TDD-Kata > for example. > > Stef > > > On 25/8/14 16:26, Ichiseki wrote: > >> I'm trying to find examples and problems, exercises to solve in Pharo but >> it >> seems that it is little in that department. >> I come from Haskell, there we have 99 problems solved in Haskell and also, >> Project Euler. >> Also Python, Ruby ....and other have this. >> Is there a place where I can find more food? >> Thankyou >> >> Ichiro >> >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/ >> Workbook-exercises-and-problems-tp4774634.html >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> >> > >

Aug. 25, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Workbook, exercises and problems

by stepharo

Ignaciostarted to write the ST99 problems in the pfte but he stopped after a couple of them. https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/PharoForTheEnterprise/745/artifa… The problem with little problems is that sometimes you can write them in a single method so there not really exciting. Now if you want you can try to take the list and implement them. We will comment them and help you. Now if you do some little programs like the quinto game without ui, or agile kata http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~zeroflag/TDD-Kata for example. Stef On 25/8/14 16:26, Ichiseki wrote: > I'm trying to find examples and problems, exercises to solve in Pharo but it > seems that it is little in that department. > I come from Haskell, there we have 99 problems solved in Haskell and also, > Project Euler. > Also Python, Ruby ....and other have this. > Is there a place where I can find more food? > Thankyou > > Ichiro > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Workbook-exercises-and-problems-tp4774634.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >

Aug. 25, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] [ANN] Teapot 0.8 micro web framework

by Attila Magyar

Santiago Bragagnolo wrote >> I played a little bit with Teapot last week during ESUG and was wondering >> what is your flow when you are designing/experimenting an API with >> Teapot? >> Do you reset the instance everytime you modify/add a route? I'm not sure i understand it correctly. The routes are stored in a router in an OrderedCollection. If you say teapot GET: '/foo/bar' -> someAction A new Route will be created with the given url pattern, action, http method and default response transformer. The first 3 things cannot be modifed later, but the response transformer can. So if you say: teapot GET: '/foo/bar' -> someAction; output: #ston Then the ston transformer will be added to the current route, after the route was added to the router. Teapot stores a reference to the current route to be able to do this. In the future there may be other messages (eg. filtering based on the content-type or other request properties). The reason for doing this is to avoid the combinatorial explosion of method numbers (there is no need to implement GET:output:, POST:output:, etc..). Is it an answer for your question or did you mean something else? -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/ANN-Teapot-0-8-micro-web-framework-tp4774449p4774693.… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Aug. 25, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Workbook, exercises and problems

by kilon alios

"@Kilon Thanks for the link. I will take a look at it. And BTW, thanks for your video tutorials They are very helpful Ichiro" Glad you find them helpful Ichiro, more are coming :) "That is indeed a very good book, a big step above a plain introduction. But the best book is actually AndrÃ©s Valloud's "A mentoring course on Smalltalk" - I can guarantee you it will blow your mind ;-) The cool thing about Pharo/Smalltalk is that once you get the basics (minimal syntax, new approach to development) out of the way, it is all about content after that." Thanks Sven added to my lists of things to buy , I love reading inspiring books of any kind :)

Aug. 25, 2014