August 2014 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Unintuitive behavior of class-side initialize

by kilon alios

I will be adding an "Introduction to Object Orientation" chapter to the new updated Pharo By Example online book, so I will add this to the chapter. The chapter will target people not familiar with Object Orientation and people new to coding. Its not an immediate target but it will happen till the end of the year. On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 8:22 AM, webwarrior <reg(a)webwarrior.ws> wrote: > >> As class is just an object in Smalltalk, it would be reasonable to believe >> that #initialize message is always sent to class on creation. >> >> However, that's not true. It is only sent to classes that redefine >> #initialize. Also sending super initialize may lead to problems. >> >> > Ohhh yes. There is always a time for every Smalltalkers where you discover > that doing super for class side initialize is not a good idea. > Here was my time: > http://forum.world.st/super-initialize-is-not-a-good-idea-for-Behaviors-td3… > > >> None of these is mentioned in documentation (I assume Pahro By Example is >> the official one). It only says that #initialize is sent when class is >> loaded into memory. >> >> I think either this behavior should be made more consistent, or >> excplicitly >> mentioned in the docs. >> > > > +1 to the documentation > > >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://forum.world.st/Unintuitive-behavior-of-class-side-initialize-tp47750… >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >

Aug. 27, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Unintuitive behavior of class-side initialize

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 8:22 AM, webwarrior <reg(a)webwarrior.ws> wrote: > As class is just an object in Smalltalk, it would be reasonable to believe > that #initialize message is always sent to class on creation. > > However, that's not true. It is only sent to classes that redefine > #initialize. Also sending super initialize may lead to problems. > > Ohhh yes. There is always a time for every Smalltalkers where you discover that doing super for class side initialize is not a good idea. Here was my time: http://forum.world.st/super-initialize-is-not-a-good-idea-for-Behaviors-td3… > None of these is mentioned in documentation (I assume Pahro By Example is > the official one). It only says that #initialize is sent when class is > loaded into memory. > > I think either this behavior should be made more consistent, or excplicitly > mentioned in the docs. > +1 to the documentation > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Unintuitive-behavior-of-class-side-initialize-tp47750… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Aug. 27, 2014

Unintuitive behavior of class-side initialize

by webwarrior

As class is just an object in Smalltalk, it would be reasonable to believe that #initialize message is always sent to class on creation. However, that's not true. It is only sent to classes that redefine #initialize. Also sending super initialize may lead to problems. None of these is mentioned in documentation (I assume Pahro By Example is the official one). It only says that #initialize is sent when class is loaded into memory. I think either this behavior should be made more consistent, or excplicitly mentioned in the docs. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Unintuitive-behavior-of-class-side-initialize-tp47750… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Aug. 27, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Problems Pharo 3.0 & Windows 8.1 (64 Bit)

by GÃ¶ran Krampe

Hi! On 08/25/2014 05:34 PM, volkert(a)nivoba.de wrote: > Dear all, > > i have problems with Pharo 3.0 under Win 8.1 (64 Bit). When i quit Pharo > and then restarting > the it, Pharo-VM and Windows hangs. After some time (2-3 Minutes), the > Pharo VM File Dialog opens. From time to time the Windows Desktop (!) > crashes and restarts. Some antivirus active? regards, GÃ¶ran

Aug. 27, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Problems Pharo 3.0 & Windows 8.1 (64 Bit)

by Ben Coman

Alain Rastoul wrote: > > Hi, > > No problem for me with Windows 8.1 (64 bits) and Pharo 3, I use it > every day. > If your computer crashes, I would suspect some hardware related issue, > not a vm problem. > Did you check in the system event log ? > (right click on computer icon in the file explorer, choose manage > then go in system tools/events log and see the system and widows logs) > > HTH > > regards, > > Alain > > > Good thought. It may just be that Pharo reserves a lot of memory, and the next OS action hits a bad location. Just to establishing our footing, you might try memtest86. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memtest86 cheers -ben

Aug. 27, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Problems Pharo 3.0 & Windows 8.1 (64 Bit)

by Ben Coman

volkert(a)nivoba.de wrote: > Dear all, > > i have problems with Pharo 3.0 under Win 8.1 (64 Bit). When i quit > Pharo and then restarting > the it, Pharo-VM and Windows hangs. After some time (2-3 Minutes), the > Pharo VM File Dialog opens. From time to time the Windows Desktop (!) > crashes and restarts. > > No Problems under Windows 7. > > Looks like a Problem with the VM. > > Has someone else seen this behavior under Win 8.1? > > BW, > Volkert > Hi Volkert, I don't have Win 8.1 64-bit to test on, but to help reproducibility for others, could you provide the exact downloads you are using for VM and Image. Do you end up with a PharoDebug.log or crash.dmp file in any Pharo folder? cheers -ben

Aug. 27, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Can Pharo meet all your computing needs?

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

Trygve, Thanks to you for sharing DCI. I can't grasp it yet, but the relation with the Dynabook and its intended audience of grown up curious and playful adults are intriguing to me and a place where I can see common interest. Cheers, Offray On 08/26/2014 10:32 AM, Trygve Reenskaug wrote: > Hi, > Many thanks for your ref [1]. I have skimmed it and find it both well written > and interesting. I must read it more carefully as necessary background when I am > embarking on the 'new Dynabook' (BOOK) project. My target audience is > professionals using computers as an essential part of their work. (E.g., > computational chemists). More precisely, the curious and creative subset. The > distance to children is in topic only as far as I can see. > > I'm afraid the other references in English will have to be put on the back burner... > Again, my sincere thanks for this essential reference > --Trygve > > On 26.08.2014 03:08, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas wrote: >> Hi Wilfred and welcome, >> >> I have been lurking at the Smalltalk/Squeak community like from ten years when >> I used Etoys, Bots Inc and Scratch to teach newbies an introductory course on >> "informatics" (which has a part related with programming) and after a while I >> got here at the Pharo community, where I lurked here for a while but now, >> because of my PhD research, which is related with mutual modification between >> communities and digital artifacts, I try to explore Pharo as a medium for >> exploring some ideas about that and I think it can't be done without a first >> hands on experience on the environment and the actual code writing, so I'm >> trying to become a more active participant, but I'm still a newbie. Anyway, >> from newbie to newbie, welcome again. >> >> About the dynabook and its vision I would recommend "Tracing the Dynabook: A >> Study of Technocultural Transformations" by John W Maxwell at [1]. In fact, on >> this book Maxwell claims that Smalltalk didn't loose (in popularity and >> defining the common computer experience) against another programming >> languages, it lost against the Operative System paradigm, and its idea of >> having different small tools connected mainly by pipes and files, mainly >> non-interactive, mainly binary and without any unifying conceptual framework >> beyond files and pipes. I think he's right. >> >> [1] http://tkbr.ccsp.sfu.ca/dynabook/ >> >> >> Besides SqueakNOS you can see some ideas inspired in Smalltak and the Dynabook >> vision in the EtoileOS[2]. The authors are not trying to repeat the OS >> paradigm, but trying to rethink it from a Smalltalk perspective, with >> practical considerations about bridging what we have now in C [3] and the apps >> world [4] with what can be done/thought from a Dynabook inspired vision. >> >> [2] http://etoileos.com/ >> [3] http://etoileos.com/news/archive/2012/08/19/1308/ >> [4] http://etoileos.com/news/archive/2012/04/30/1825/ >> >> Regarding myself and my own approach to make this ideas viable in my current >> context, specifically on what is concerned with creation of rich documentation >> and something like a modest "Dynabooklet", I'm trying to get the writing >> experience of Leo[5], which is an outliner that has the property of making >> it's own tree structure available to make it scriptable in Python (any node of >> the tree can contain python code which can traverse and process the tree in >> particular ways) to something similar in Smalltalk, with the advantage of an >> integrated and explorable inmersive dynamic environment. My idea is to make >> and environment where I can write my own PhD thesis[7] (at this moment I'm >> writing it with Leo + LaTeX with advances like this [8]), but also to teach >> some Data Narratives[9] and Indie Web[10][11]. I'm trying to combine Python >> and Smalltalk in modest ways or at least to create some cross-pollination of >> ideas. >> >> [5] http://leoeditor.com/ >> [6] http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Offray/Ubakye/ >> [7] >> http://mutabit.com/offray/static/blog/output/posts/la-forma-en-que-escribo-… >> [8] >> http://mutabit.com/deltas/repos.fossil/doctorado-offray/doc/tip/Tesis/Exame… >> [9] >> http://mutabit.com/offray/static/blog/output/posts/borrachos-bochinche-futb… >> [10] >> http://mutabit.com/offray/static/blog/output/posts/indie-science-indie-web-… >> [11] http://indiewebcamp.com/ >> >> >> So, I think Pharo can bootstrap the dynabook vision of and environment for >> your computer needs and make it viable in different ways, even for a single >> person or a small community if this is connected with the rest of the >> environment and experiences on what we have now. My examples are just humble >> approaches on my attempts to do that, but I hope that this can show you a lot >> of interesting stuff that can be done as a novice or as an expert with the >> help of the community and the persons here. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Offray >> >> On 08/25/2014 06:33 PM, Wilfred Hughes wrote: >>> Sounds like the Dynabook goal rather overlaps with that of Lisp Machines. The >>> idea of a single system that allows you to modify any part at runtime, inspect >>> any part, or drop into a debugger anywhere is extremely powerful and wonderful >>> to work with. >>> >>> Emacs gets quite close to this, but... it's Emacs lisp. I've used worse >>> languages, but elisp was not intended to be a general purpose application >>> programming language. Smalltalk is, which is why Pharo excites me. >>> >>> Once you start 'living' in a single environment, you customise it to meet your >>> needs and can contribute the reusable parts to the wider community. This >>> produces a virtuous circle of the tools getting better. A package manager that >>> makes it easy to distribute your work is crucial in this. >>> >>> Sounds like the first step for me is to start using the Pharo file browser and >>> command shell and to see how it fits my workflow :) >>> >>> >>> On 25 August 2014 15:15, S Krish <krishnamachari.sudhakar(a)gmail.com >>> <mailto:krishnamachari.sudhakar@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> " The Dynabook SW architecture must be open so that owners can safely >>> install functionality ('apps') that is available in a marketplace. (The >>> i-pad with its hardware and its marketplace for apps is at the back of my >>> mind.)" >>> >>> >>> Can the intent be expanded a bit more. Is this an intent to have a Pharo / >>> ST / Dynabook based marketplace or more extensive ? >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 3:33 PM, Trygve Reenskaug <trygver(a)ifi.uio.no >>> <mailto:trygver@ifi.uio.no>> wrote: >>> >>> I don't think the current Smalltalk architecture can meet all your >>> computing needs because security isn't part of its core and because it >>> is inconceivable that all the necessary programs can be developed >>> within >>> its boundaries. >>> >>> Like several people I met at ESUG, my goal is the Dynabook and the >>> Dynabook shall, by definition, meet all your needs. A Dynabook must be >>> safe so that its owner is protected from hackers and other evildoers. >>> The Dynabook SW architecture must be open so that owners can safely >>> install functionality ('apps') that is available in a marketplace. >>> (The >>> i-pad with its hardware and its marketplace for apps is at the back of >>> my mind.) >>> >>> I can only see one path from here to there. Start from e.g., Pharo and >>> simplify it to create a Dynabook architecture with owner programming >>> and >>> with opening for safely adding functionality safely ad lib. (I suppose >>> this is an ST based OS?) >>> >>> Any takers? >>> --Trygve >>> >>> >>> >>> On 23.08.2014 17:04, Wilfred Hughes wrote: >>>> Hi folks >>>> >>>> I've been playing with Pharo recently, and really enjoying writing >>>> some programs in the Pharo environment. >>>> >>>> As a result, I've been wondering if I can use Pharo the way I would >>>> use Emacs, as an environment for doing everything. >>>> >>>> For example, can I use Pharo to: >>>> >>>> * Send emails to this mailing list? >>>> * Use IRC? >>>> * Start Bash? >>>> * Read the Pharo documentation (e.g. Pharo By Example)? >>>> >>>> If these things do exist, how do I discover them? Is there a package >>>> manager I can use to find new tools I can use in Pharo? >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > -- > > Trygve Reenskaug mailto: trygver(a)ifi.uio.no > Morgedalsvn. 5A http://folk.uio.no/trygver/ > N-0378 Oslo http://fullOO.info > Norway Tel: (+47) 22 49 57 27 >

Aug. 27, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Problems Pharo 3.0 & Windows 8.1 (64 Bit)

by Alain Rastoul

Hi, No problem for me with Windows 8.1 (64 bits) and Pharo 3, I use it every day. If your computer crashes, I would suspect some hardware related issue, not a vm problem. Did you check in the system event log ? (right click on computer icon in the file explorer, choose manage then go in system tools/events log and see the system and widows logs) HTH regards, Alain

Aug. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Problems Pharo 3.0 & Windows 8.1 (64 Bit)

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

I would guess the image/vm is doing something IO related. What were you experimenting with ? What did you load ? Does it also happen in a clean image ? On 26 Aug 2014, at 19:24, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > Can you have a look at the PharoDebug.log file? > > Maybe we can find the cause there. > > Regards, > Phil > > > > On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 7:01 PM, volkert(a)nivoba.de <volkert(a)nivoba.de> wrote: > @Esteban, Phil & Sven: The bad thing is, that it does not happen all the time, so a better description of is not possible. I will try to figure out under which conditions this behavior occurs and hope to give you a better description. > > If someone found a strange behavior similar to mine, he/she should give me a note. > > BW, > Volkert > > > Am 26.08.2014 um 14:37 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe: > My children have a Windows 8.1 (64-bit) machine, last time I checked Pharo ran fine (actually this video was done in VirtualBox) : > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKokxrQtrg0 > > I could check again tonight, but I suspect it will just work. > > On 25 Aug 2014, at 17:34, volkert(a)nivoba.de wrote: > > Dear all, > > i have problems with Pharo 3.0 under Win 8.1 (64 Bit). When i quit Pharo and then restarting > the it, Pharo-VM and Windows hangs. After some time (2-3 Minutes), the > Pharo VM File Dialog opens. From time to time the Windows Desktop (!) crashes and restarts. > > No Problems under Windows 7. > > Looks like a Problem with the VM. > > Has someone else seen this behavior under Win 8.1? > > BW, > Volkert > > -- > www.nivoba.de > > "The more complex an object, the larger the investment in learning to use it, and the greater the resistance to abandon it.", NW > > > > > -- > www.nivoba.de > > "The more complex an object, the larger the investment in learning to use it, and the greater the resistance to abandon it.", NW > > > >

Aug. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Problems Pharo 3.0 & Windows 8.1 (64 Bit)

by phil＠highoctane.be

Can you have a look at the PharoDebug.log file? Maybe we can find the cause there. Regards, Phil On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 7:01 PM, volkert(a)nivoba.de <volkert(a)nivoba.de> wrote: > @Esteban, Phil & Sven: The bad thing is, that it does not happen all the > time, so a better description of is not possible. I will try to figure out > under which conditions this behavior occurs and hope to give you a better > description. > > If someone found a strange behavior similar to mine, he/she should give me > a note. > > BW, > Volkert > > > Am 26.08.2014 um 14:37 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe: > >> My children have a Windows 8.1 (64-bit) machine, last time I checked >> Pharo ran fine (actually this video was done in VirtualBox) : >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKokxrQtrg0 >> >> I could check again tonight, but I suspect it will just work. >> >> On 25 Aug 2014, at 17:34, volkert(a)nivoba.de wrote: >> >> Dear all, >>> >>> i have problems with Pharo 3.0 under Win 8.1 (64 Bit). When i quit Pharo >>> and then restarting >>> the it, Pharo-VM and Windows hangs. After some time (2-3 Minutes), the >>> Pharo VM File Dialog opens. From time to time the Windows Desktop (!) >>> crashes and restarts. >>> >>> No Problems under Windows 7. >>> >>> Looks like a Problem with the VM. >>> >>> Has someone else seen this behavior under Win 8.1? >>> >>> BW, >>> Volkert >>> >>> -- >>> www.nivoba.de >>> >>> "The more complex an object, the larger the investment in learning to >>> use it, and the greater the resistance to abandon it.", NW >>> >>> >>> >> > -- > www.nivoba.de > > "The more complex an object, the larger the investment in learning to use > it, and the greater the resistance to abandon it.", NW > > > >

Aug. 26, 2014