May 2014 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Receiving Nautilus notice when code is changed

by Hilaire Fernandes

Le 14/05/2014 15:56, Goubier Thierry a Ã©crit : > Le 14/05/2014 15:38, Hilaire Fernandes a Ã©crit : >> Thanks Thierry. >> This one I really can't discover it. > > Oh you could like I did: spending ages looking at the Browser, Nautilus > and OmniBrowser code ;) Yes, I guess. Asking to the list has two virtues: save me time and the answer is searchable in the forum. > Keep up the good work with DrGeo: it's really one of the "flagship" > Pharo apps that I talk about when I want to convince non-computer guys > about Pharo. Thanks. I left DrGeo as it was since last September when porting to Pharo2 with the help of Esteban and Igor. But I hope to have soon a newer release, but there are some work, http://bug.drgeo.eu. Hilaire -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

May 14, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Problem learning about Magritte

by Esteban A. Maringolo

2014-05-14 12:15 GMT-03:00 PBK Research <peter(a)pbkresearch.co.uk>: > Esteban > > Well, I am carrying on, but I do wonder why Pharo has to be such a rapidly > moving target. There are virtues in stability, and perhaps there should be a > filtering process before any change is made, to ensure that the benefits > outweigh any disruption. Well... that might be related with the fact that Pharo "the kernel" is moving faster than many popular Pharo/Squeak libraries. > I must admit that, at times, Pharo looks like a > playground for a fairly small group of very clever people who are in love > with the process of development. I share your feelings about this. It is a playground AND a business platform, supported by very clever people who are in love with it. :) > But am sure that, if I could get the functions of > Magritte and PetitParser in a stable environment like Dolphin, I would drop > Pharo like a shot. Dolphin was (is?) a Smalltalk dialect built by only two clever developers during a long period of time, that built the entire codebase with a high level of coherence not found in other dialects, or software in general. Also, Andy Bower in particular was very skilled about designing user interactions. I always wonder how many people that uses Pharo ever used Dolphin. On the other hand, Pharo carries a lot of legacy code, some part was replaced and the remaining heritage is being replaced as much as possible by new code which is more consistent and coherent with the rest of the codebase. And not only it is rewritten for better understanding, but also to add new features. > While I am in a moaning mood - I'm not always like this! - could anyone tell > me whether there is a glossary of names for Pharo extensions which will tell > beginners like me what they are for and whether they are worth learning > about. I have come across Cairo, Athens, Zinc, Fuel, Spec, Grease and Shout > - just as names, with no idea what they do and no obvious way of finding > out. Is there any place where I can look these things up? They all exist in > the Forum image that I downloaded today, but the system browser contains no > general explanation. This is another thing that, IMO, has to do more with the latest naming trends in general (not only Pharo): You can't infer what is what only by its name. In the past it was all about acronyms, now that practice is almost abandoned, which is a good thing :) Regards, -- Esteban.

May 14, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Problem learning about Magritte

by PBK Research

Esteban Well, I am carrying on, but I do wonder why Pharo has to be such a rapidly moving target. There are virtues in stability, and perhaps there should be a filtering process before any change is made, to ensure that the benefits outweigh any disruption. I must admit that, at times, Pharo looks like a playground for a fairly small group of very clever people who are in love with the process of development. I got involved with Pharo again recently - having looked at it briefly several years ago - because I had read papers, mainly by Lukas Renggli, about Magritte and PetitParser, and I thought these were brilliant ideas that I wanted to explore. But am sure that, if I could get the functions of Magritte and PetitParser in a stable environment like Dolphin, I would drop Pharo like a shot. While I am in a moaning mood - I'm not always like this! - could anyone tell me whether there is a glossary of names for Pharo extensions which will tell beginners like me what they are for and whether they are worth learning about. I have come across Cairo, Athens, Zinc, Fuel, Spec, Grease and Shout - just as names, with no idea what they do and no obvious way of finding out. Is there any place where I can look these things up? They all exist in the Forum image that I downloaded today, but the system browser contains no general explanation. Peter Kenny PS I've just seen Stephan's reply while composing this. Thanks - it all gets a bit clearer. You might take my last paragraph above as my response to your last paragraph! -----Original Message----- From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of Esteban A. Maringolo Sent: 14 May 2014 13:30 To: Any question about pharo is welcome Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Problem learning about Magritte 2014-05-14 9:25 GMT-03:00 PBK Research <peter(a)pbkresearch.co.uk>: > Stephan > Still, I am making progress with my original aim of learning about Magritte, > and there are many helpful people on this group, so you can just regard this > as me blowing off steam after things had not gone completely easily. Plus, you mention you're coming from Dolphin Smalltalk. Which is easier than the average, in terms of straightforwardness. Pharo has A LOT to offer, once you get used to aim at a moving target :) Esteban A. Maringolo

May 14, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Problem learning about Magritte

by Stephan Eggermont

Peter wrote: >It all looks a maze of >new terminology to me - I don't understand the difference between Monticello >and Metacello, for instance. Both are part of configuration management. Historically, Monticello came first. It supports distributed version control of a single package. Package is a problematic concept in Pharo (and Squeak), as multiple class categories belong to one package. Class category and package are often used as if they are the same. The Magritte-Model package contains all categories starting with 'Magritte-Model', a.o. Magritte-Model-Core. Monticello has support for required packages, but this is better expressed in Metacello. Metacello solves the problem of dealing with multiple platforms, dependencies of packages and different status. Better and longer explanations can be found in the Deep into Pharo book http://www.deepintopharo.com >I am sure to an expert your explanation of how >to check the correct version of Magritte3 is quite straightforward, but I >would never have found my way to that conclusion myself. Yes, that takes time and experience. A smalltalk system is large and finding your way around is not simple. I hope explaining how I find out helps. >As I pointed out to >Esteban, I used the configuration browser on 5 May to get the stable version >of Magritte3. If that was already out of date, I am pretty well lost. There was no test for this, so the build was green :( >Still, I am making progress with my original aim of learning about Magritte, >and there are many helpful people on this group, so you can just regard this >as me blowing off steam after things had not gone completely easily. Good. Just continue telling us where we need to improve. Stephan

May 14, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Minimal browser

by Goubier Thierry

Like that? This one is a full browser, scoped at the class (i.e. you can see this, nothing more). Not even the class side of the class :( (the surprise of playing with Refactoring Environments) Thierry Le 14/05/2014 11:26, Hilaire Fernandes a Ã©crit : > Hello, > > With Pahro 1.4, > > Browser newOnClass: Number selector: #+ > > use to open a minimal browser on the selected method (btw, it is broken now) > > With: > Nautilus newOnClass: Number selector: #+ > > > I get a full browser on the method. Is it possible to have a minimal > browser with Nautilus? > I need it in DrGeo to let users edit scripts, I don't want them to be > confused by a full browser. > > Thanks > > Hilaire > > -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95

May 14, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Problem learning about Magritte

by Esteban A. Maringolo

2014-05-14 10:38 GMT-03:00 Robert Shiplett <grshiplett(a)gmail.com>: > I, for one, need to learn the Unicode UTF-128 "steam release" emoticon ... > it must be in some supplement codepage. > > It should look like the icon on my "Do you REALLY want to post this ?" mail > client DialogLastChance window ... > > ;-) > > ( and this maillist is just a nice bunch of Smalltalkers, too ! ) > > #LastChance2Dialog Sorry, but I didn't get the meaning of this. #lostInTranslation But to clarify my intention, I was encouraging Peter to keep betting on Pharo, given the visible frustration he had when told that something downloaded a week ago is outdated. Regards, Esteban.

May 14, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Receiving Nautilus notice when code is changed

by Goubier Thierry

Le 14/05/2014 15:38, Hilaire Fernandes a Ã©crit : > Thanks Thierry. > This one I really can't discover it. Oh you could like I did: spending ages looking at the Browser, Nautilus and OmniBrowser code ;) Keep up the good work with DrGeo: it's really one of the "flagship" Pharo apps that I talk about when I want to convince non-computer guys about Pharo. Thierry -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95

May 14, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Problem learning about Magritte

by Robert Shiplett

I, for one, need to learn the Unicode UTF-128 "steam release" emoticon ... it must be in some supplement codepage. It should look like the icon on my "Do you REALLY want to post this ?" mail client DialogLastChance window ... ;-) ( and this maillist is just a nice bunch of Smalltalkers, too ! ) #LastChance2Dialog On 14 May 2014 09:30, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > 2014-05-14 9:25 GMT-03:00 PBK Research <peter(a)pbkresearch.co.uk>: > > Stephan > > > Still, I am making progress with my original aim of learning about > Magritte, > > and there are many helpful people on this group, so you can just regard > this > > as me blowing off steam after things had not gone completely easily. > > Plus, you mention you're coming from Dolphin Smalltalk. > Which is easier than the average, in terms of straightforwardness. > > Pharo has A LOT to offer, once you get used to aim at a moving target :) > > > Esteban A. Maringolo > >

May 14, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Receiving Nautilus notice when code is changed

by Hilaire Fernandes

Thanks Thierry. This one I really can't discover it. Hilaire Le 14/05/2014 14:44, Goubier Thierry a Ã©crit : > SystemAnnouncer uniqueInstance weak on: MethodAdded send: #update: to: > self domain. -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

May 14, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Receiving Nautilus notice when code is changed

by Goubier Thierry

Hi Hilaire, you can track the system announcements MethodModified and MethodAdded; they are browser independent (but then you need to filter to see it relates to the method you are interested in). SystemAnnouncer uniqueInstance weak on: MethodAdded send: #update: to: self domain. Thierry Le 14/05/2014 14:37, Hilaire Fernandes a Ã©crit : > Now I wonder how can I get noticed when code was edited and compiled > from a Nautilus window. > > Previously I was doing: > browser addDependent: self domain. > > and DrGeo received notice in the domain objet through the #update: method. > > It does not work anymore. > > How to do it now? > > Thanks > > Hilaire > > > Le 14/05/2014 11:45, Hilaire Fernandes a Ã©crit : >> Hi, >> >> In DrGeo, I add this code snippet to: >> >> browser := Browser >> newOnClass: DrGeoUserScripts >> selector: mathItem script. >> browser addDependent: self domain. >> browser codeTextMorph owner owner extent: 450@350. >> browser topView setProperty: #morphicLayerNumber toValue: 5. >>> >> >> >> 1. open a minimal browser >> 2. set a dependency so DrGeo is noticed when the user edited and compile >> its script (so Drgeo can update the sketch) >> 3. rescale the browser so the user can still see his sketch >> 4. set the minimal browser in a permanent top position. >> >> As Browser is broken and not gonna be fixed, I need to redo the same >> with Nautilus, but this one is a big beast. Any tips how to do it? >> >> Thansk >> >> Hilaire >> >> > -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95

May 14, 2014