April 2014 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] We need *you* for the upcoming Pharo's website

by kilon alios

On 4/17/14, Damien Cassou <damien.cassou(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Kilon, > > On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 6:44 PM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> I was thinking of creating a screencast to explain in a few minutes why I >> like Pharo, emphasizing on live coding , the image and the development >> environment. By coincidence I recorded a test tutorial yesterday (before >> noticing this announcement) for the very basics of pharo, just 15 >> minutes. >> So its definitely something I am willing to do. Its just that will like >> to >> do several tries and possible edit it to make it as efficient and as >> simple >> as possible. >> >> So If you are not in a hurry I can offer something. > > > that would be really great. We want to release the new website in the > coming 2/3 weeks, do you think you could make it? Maybe you could do > short ones that show a specific feature or two each? That would make > integration into the website easier. As an example, the ones of > babymock are great: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPbItfNc5WY > > Thanks > > -- > Damien Cassou > http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st > > "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without > losing enthusiasm." > Winston Churchill > > I am still on vacations and the internet is very slow here. I will be able to upload something by the end of this weekend. My idea is to illustrate 6 points in 6-10 minutes that to my opinion make Pharo a very useful and fun choice. 1) Livecoding 2) The IDE 3) Image 4) FFIs (Nativeboost / Amber etc) 5) Community 6) The language

April 21, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Domaintalk - A Proposed New Project

by Reza Razavi

April 21, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Domaintalk - A Proposed New Project

by kilon alios

Sounds interesting, maybe you could use Pillar to outline the basic features you are aiming for and detail how you will achieve them. Then you can link it back here for discussion, this way people wont have to go back through their emails to find a description for it. I was thinking something similar for Graphics and Music which are areas that interest me, I am interested into reading other people opinions as I am not very familiar with DSLs. I was just studying CSOUND the DSL for audio synthesis and music composition and dreaming how cool it would feel to have that used from inside Pharo as an extension to it. http://www.csounds.com/ On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 6:01 PM, Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: > > I second that, it was exactly what I was thinking ! > > On Apr 21, 2014, at 11:25 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > you have to checkout helvetia, by Lukas Renggli: > > > > http://scg.unibe.ch/research/helvetia > > > > cheers, > > Esteban > > > > On 21 Apr 2014, at 16:17, Bob Williams <rwilliams19(a)cox.net> wrote: > > > >> For some time I have been developing the idea of a extension to > Smalltalk, which I call Domaintalk. That extension would have "areas" where > the language natural to the problem being solved would be used. For > example, when solving a numerical problem then mathematical notation would > be used or when accessing a relational database SQL would be used. In other > words, each of those area would correspond to the language used by "Domain > Experts", thus the name domain.The rational behind this is that when you > ask a domain expert how to solve a particular problem they will give you > the solution in their natural language and you must then convert that into > Smalltalk code. Why not just eliminate the last step an let the compiler > for the domain produce a compiled method that can be used by the VM--a > domain specific would be required in addition to the compiler. > >> > >> There are two reasons for my posting this email: (1) I want to measure > the interest of this group in such a project, and (2) I want to know if > there is a better place to post a much longer description of the project or > should I just break the description into smaller segments and post each > under a different subject? > > > > > > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- > > Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry > PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile > > >

April 21, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Domaintalk - A Proposed New Project

by Johan Fabry

I second that, it was exactly what I was thinking ! On Apr 21, 2014, at 11:25 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > you have to checkout helvetia, by Lukas Renggli: > > http://scg.unibe.ch/research/helvetia > > cheers, > Esteban > > On 21 Apr 2014, at 16:17, Bob Williams <rwilliams19(a)cox.net> wrote: > >> For some time I have been developing the idea of a extension to Smalltalk, which I call Domaintalk. That extension would have "areas" where the language natural to the problem being solved would be used. For example, when solving a numerical problem then mathematical notation would be used or when accessing a relational database SQL would be used. In other words, each of those area would correspond to the language used by "Domain Experts", thus the name domain.The rational behind this is that when you ask a domain expert how to solve a particular problem they will give you the solution in their natural language and you must then convert that into Smalltalk code. Why not just eliminate the last step an let the compiler for the domain produce a compiled method that can be used by the VM--a domain specific would be required in addition to the compiler. >> >> There are two reasons for my posting this email: (1) I want to measure the interest of this group in such a project, and (2) I want to know if there is a better place to post a much longer description of the project or should I just break the description into smaller segments and post each under a different subject? > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

April 21, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Pillar in TextMate

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Well said +1 On 21 Apr 2014, at 15:31, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I dont get what you are implying . There is tons of cross platform > text editors , my favorite being emacs , vim being extremely capable > too. > > I have no serious experience with Textmate but looks very capable too. > > I have used emacs on windows XP, windows 7 , macos 10.4 , macos 10.7 , > macos 10.9, ubuntu 12 and ubuntu 13. I had zero issues with it and its > insanely powerful. I am a huge fan of it. > > I see also nothing wrong with supporting third party tools like > Textmate, the more the better. I love flexibility. > > Great work guys.

April 21, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Domaintalk - A Proposed New Project

by Esteban Lorenzano

you have to checkout helvetia, by Lukas Renggli: http://scg.unibe.ch/research/helvetia cheers, Esteban On 21 Apr 2014, at 16:17, Bob Williams <rwilliams19(a)cox.net> wrote: > For some time I have been developing the idea of a extension to Smalltalk, which I call Domaintalk. That extension would have "areas" where the language natural to the problem being solved would be used. For example, when solving a numerical problem then mathematical notation would be used or when accessing a relational database SQL would be used. In other words, each of those area would correspond to the language used by "Domain Experts", thus the name domain.The rational behind this is that when you ask a domain expert how to solve a particular problem they will give you the solution in their natural language and you must then convert that into Smalltalk code. Why not just eliminate the last step an let the compiler for the domain produce a compiled method that can be used by the VM--a domain specific would be required in addition to the compiler. > > There are two reasons for my posting this email: (1) I want to measure the interest of this group in such a project, and (2) I want to know if there is a better place to post a much longer description of the project or should I just break the description into smaller segments and post each under a different subject?

April 21, 2014

Domaintalk - A Proposed New Project

by Bob Williams

For some time I have been developing the idea of a extension to Smalltalk, which I call Domaintalk. That extension would have "areas" where the language natural to the problem being solved would be used. For example, when solving a numerical problem then mathematical notation would be used or when accessing a relational database SQL would be used. In other words, each of those area would correspond to the language used by "Domain Experts", thus the name domain.The rational behind this is that when you ask a domain expert how to solve a particular problem they will give you the solution in their natural language and you must then convert that into Smalltalk code. Why not just eliminate the last step an let the compiler for the domain produce a compiled method that can be used by the VM--a domain specific would be required in addition to the compiler. There are two reasons for my posting this email: (1) I want to measure the interest of this group in such a project, and (2) I want to know if there is a better place to post a much longer description of the project or should I just break the description into smaller segments and post each under a different subject?

April 21, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Pillar in TextMate

by kilon alios

I dont get what you are implying . There is tons of cross platform text editors , my favorite being emacs , vim being extremely capable too. I have no serious experience with Textmate but looks very capable too. I have used emacs on windows XP, windows 7 , macos 10.4 , macos 10.7 , macos 10.9, ubuntu 12 and ubuntu 13. I had zero issues with it and its insanely powerful. I am a huge fan of it. I see also nothing wrong with supporting third party tools like Textmate, the more the better. I love flexibility. Great work guys. On 4/21/14, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett(a)gmail.com> wrote: > we had developers wanting Mac's so that they could run TextMate. Rather > like the Sales exec'son the other side of the building who wanted to keep > their Blackberry after the acquisition ( in the mad-mad s/w world in North > America, the developers will be forbidden Mac's but the marketing people > will be using them.) > > It is probably me who doesn't understand why there is not yet a truly > portable rich text editor for programmers ;-) > ( no that plugin for eclipse was NOT what I had in mind. ) > > Because it does seem to me that every "and we have a TextMate plugin" is a > symptom of a mild disorder rather than a nostrum ;-) > > > > > On 21 April 2014 09:47, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: > >> As you are replying to my email I guess you have some feedback or request >> about my bundle. >> >> Honestly I havenât understood a thing after reading your reply once. Iâll >> try to read it more times later. >> >> Cheers >> Uko >> >> On 21 Apr 2014, at 15:06, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> re: textmite >> >> Q : what is currently the best Unicode text "notes >> collator"/editor/formatter/previewer/printer/versioning-compat app >> written >> in a Smalltalk dialect ? Any one component of the above ? RTF text >> editing/formatting widget? >> >> Sketch/draw/coloring app ? Check. >> complex telco routing app ? Check. >> multi-dim data visualization app ? Check. >> real-time high-speed robotic arm/articulated-joint controller app ? >> Check. >> >> Can anything be learned from the successes/issues of the Sciter >> editor/component project ? >> >> ( was just remembering when the Norton Programmer Editor came WITH the >> assembler code ) >> >> Is there an open source Objective-C variant of a decent Mac editor ? >> >> ( as TextMate is SOooo far from being cross-platform, right ? ) >> >> It is not enough for an editor to "consume" TextMate templates, is it ? ( >> an analogy that likely would not be irritating to others escapes me at >> the >> moment ... ) >> >> Are constraints behavior what makes good editors so difficult to maintain >> ? ( assuming elegant/extensible constraints modelling and resolution IS >> the >> app challenge for text formatting for WYSIWYG approvals ) >> >> Is there now a constraint resolution module callable from a Smalltalk >> dialect ? >> >> I am using a graphical programming language that has 2 approaches to >> constraints for text layout : one you get to tinker about in an API, one >> you get to request layout for text/font/font_attribs and you accept the >> results ( the Alan Knight O-O no-internals-SVP version ? ) >> >> A pythonic quasi-logic language with minimalist constraints for Unicode >> text is under development in UK ; I am alpha testing one such >> non-graphical >> prgrm'g lang for Unicode text-only from USA, but it is NOT cross platform >> oddly enough; Logtalk + swi-prolog also has constraints handling ; >> typed-Prolog AKA Mercury gen's C or Erlang ; Oz has gone quiet since 1.4 >> and Lively Kernel ? I have lost track of Croquet. User-friendly Scheme >> is >> now called Racket, btw. And "Claire", the lang ? Alice ? >> >> [ by way of explanation : this Monday is a bank-holiday here, but the >> nearest beaches have ice piled on them and its some other holiday in USA >> ; >> now for morning java ( as in coffee ) ] Isn't "brackets" some editor >> project ? >> >> >> >> >> >> On 21 April 2014 07:25, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> > On 20 Apr 2014, at 12:22, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: >>> > >>> > What does it do? >>> >>> For now on - syntax highlighting. I'll try to add more features in >>> future >>> >>> Uko >>> >>> > >>> > Norbert >>> > >>> >> Am 20.04.2014 um 08:35 schrieb Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com>: >>> >> >>> >> Dear guys who use Pillar. >>> >> >>> >> Iâm happy to announce that Iâve created a small bundle for TextMate. >>> You can find it here: https://github.com/Uko/Pillar.tmbundle >>> >> >>> >> Also Iâve exported it to ATOM (new editor from github) package, but >>> itâs crappy because ATOM lacks some stuff right not. Package is called: >>> language-pillar, source is here: https://github.com/Uko/language-pillar >>> >> >>> >> I will be happy to hear your feedback, and add more features. >>> >> >>> >> Happy Easter! >>> >> Uko >>> >> >>> >> P.S. (wonât be online for â30hours) >>> > >>> >>> >> >> >

April 21, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Pillar in TextMate

by Luc Fabresse

Hi Robert, you are right, sadly TextMate is not portable but I am using it too. you may want to use portable alternatives: - http://www.sublimetext.com/ (can use TextMate's bundles) - http://www.ultraedit.com/ - and others In the Smalltalk work, I have to admit that we are not there yet but we already saw great demos on TextEditors @ ESUG in different flavors: VW, VisualAge, Pharo, ... In Pharo I remember Alain's work on Rubrik: http://vimeo.com/67400546 http://vimeo.com/67516363 #Luc 2014-04-21 15:07 GMT+02:00 Robert Shiplett <grshiplett(a)gmail.com>: > we had developers wanting Mac's so that they could run TextMate. Rather > like the Sales exec'son the other side of the building who wanted to keep > their Blackberry after the acquisition ( in the mad-mad s/w world in North > America, the developers will be forbidden Mac's but the marketing people > will be using them.) > > It is probably me who doesn't understand why there is not yet a truly > portable rich text editor for programmers ;-) > ( no that plugin for eclipse was NOT what I had in mind. ) > > Because it does seem to me that every "and we have a TextMate plugin" is a > symptom of a mild disorder rather than a nostrum ;-) > > > > > On 21 April 2014 09:47, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: > >> As you are replying to my email I guess you have some feedback or request >> about my bundle. >> >> Honestly I havenât understood a thing after reading your reply once. Iâll >> try to read it more times later. >> >> Cheers >> Uko >> >> On 21 Apr 2014, at 15:06, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> re: textmite >> >> Q : what is currently the best Unicode text "notes >> collator"/editor/formatter/previewer/printer/versioning-compat app written >> in a Smalltalk dialect ? Any one component of the above ? RTF text >> editing/formatting widget? >> >> Sketch/draw/coloring app ? Check. >> complex telco routing app ? Check. >> multi-dim data visualization app ? Check. >> real-time high-speed robotic arm/articulated-joint controller app ? Check. >> >> Can anything be learned from the successes/issues of the Sciter >> editor/component project ? >> >> ( was just remembering when the Norton Programmer Editor came WITH the >> assembler code ) >> >> Is there an open source Objective-C variant of a decent Mac editor ? >> >> ( as TextMate is SOooo far from being cross-platform, right ? ) >> >> It is not enough for an editor to "consume" TextMate templates, is it ? ( >> an analogy that likely would not be irritating to others escapes me at the >> moment ... ) >> >> Are constraints behavior what makes good editors so difficult to maintain >> ? ( assuming elegant/extensible constraints modelling and resolution IS the >> app challenge for text formatting for WYSIWYG approvals ) >> >> Is there now a constraint resolution module callable from a Smalltalk >> dialect ? >> >> I am using a graphical programming language that has 2 approaches to >> constraints for text layout : one you get to tinker about in an API, one >> you get to request layout for text/font/font_attribs and you accept the >> results ( the Alan Knight O-O no-internals-SVP version ? ) >> >> A pythonic quasi-logic language with minimalist constraints for Unicode >> text is under development in UK ; I am alpha testing one such non-graphical >> prgrm'g lang for Unicode text-only from USA, but it is NOT cross platform >> oddly enough; Logtalk + swi-prolog also has constraints handling ; >> typed-Prolog AKA Mercury gen's C or Erlang ; Oz has gone quiet since 1.4 >> and Lively Kernel ? I have lost track of Croquet. User-friendly Scheme is >> now called Racket, btw. And "Claire", the lang ? Alice ? >> >> [ by way of explanation : this Monday is a bank-holiday here, but the >> nearest beaches have ice piled on them and its some other holiday in USA ; >> now for morning java ( as in coffee ) ] Isn't "brackets" some editor >> project ? >> >> >> >> >> >> On 21 April 2014 07:25, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> > On 20 Apr 2014, at 12:22, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: >>> > >>> > What does it do? >>> >>> For now on - syntax highlighting. I'll try to add more features in future >>> >>> Uko >>> >>> > >>> > Norbert >>> > >>> >> Am 20.04.2014 um 08:35 schrieb Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com>: >>> >> >>> >> Dear guys who use Pillar. >>> >> >>> >> Iâm happy to announce that Iâve created a small bundle for TextMate. >>> You can find it here: https://github.com/Uko/Pillar.tmbundle >>> >> >>> >> Also Iâve exported it to ATOM (new editor from github) package, but >>> itâs crappy because ATOM lacks some stuff right not. Package is called: >>> language-pillar, source is here: https://github.com/Uko/language-pillar >>> >> >>> >> I will be happy to hear your feedback, and add more features. >>> >> >>> >> Happy Easter! >>> >> Uko >>> >> >>> >> P.S. (wonât be online for â30hours) >>> > >>> >>> >> >> >

April 21, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Pillar in TextMate

by Yuriy Tymchuk

Personaly I think that there should be a dedicated editor because text is a crap, but as I have to edit some text files I am using TextMate because it has syntax highlighting. I made a bundle for TextMate because I want to have syntax highlighting for Pillar. Thatâs it. Uko On 21 Apr 2014, at 16:07, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett(a)gmail.com> wrote: > we had developers wanting Mac's so that they could run TextMate. Rather like the Sales exec'son the other side of the building who wanted to keep their Blackberry after the acquisition ( in the mad-mad s/w world in North America, the developers will be forbidden Mac's but the marketing people will be using them.) > > It is probably me who doesn't understand why there is not yet a truly portable rich text editor for programmers ;-) > ( no that plugin for eclipse was NOT what I had in mind. ) > > Because it does seem to me that every "and we have a TextMate plugin" is a symptom of a mild disorder rather than a nostrum ;-) > > > > > On 21 April 2014 09:47, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: > As you are replying to my email I guess you have some feedback or request about my bundle. > > Honestly I havenât understood a thing after reading your reply once. Iâll try to read it more times later. > > Cheers > Uko > > On 21 Apr 2014, at 15:06, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> re: textmite >> >> Q : what is currently the best Unicode text "notes collator"/editor/formatter/previewer/printer/versioning-compat app written in a Smalltalk dialect ? Any one component of the above ? RTF text editing/formatting widget? >> >> Sketch/draw/coloring app ? Check. >> complex telco routing app ? Check. >> multi-dim data visualization app ? Check. >> real-time high-speed robotic arm/articulated-joint controller app ? Check. >> >> Can anything be learned from the successes/issues of the Sciter editor/component project ? >> >> ( was just remembering when the Norton Programmer Editor came WITH the assembler code ) >> >> Is there an open source Objective-C variant of a decent Mac editor ? >> >> ( as TextMate is SOooo far from being cross-platform, right ? ) >> >> It is not enough for an editor to "consume" TextMate templates, is it ? ( an analogy that likely would not be irritating to others escapes me at the moment ... ) >> >> Are constraints behavior what makes good editors so difficult to maintain ? ( assuming elegant/extensible constraints modelling and resolution IS the app challenge for text formatting for WYSIWYG approvals ) >> >> Is there now a constraint resolution module callable from a Smalltalk dialect ? >> >> I am using a graphical programming language that has 2 approaches to constraints for text layout : one you get to tinker about in an API, one you get to request layout for text/font/font_attribs and you accept the results ( the Alan Knight O-O no-internals-SVP version ? ) >> >> A pythonic quasi-logic language with minimalist constraints for Unicode text is under development in UK ; I am alpha testing one such non-graphical prgrm'g lang for Unicode text-only from USA, but it is NOT cross platform oddly enough; Logtalk + swi-prolog also has constraints handling ; typed-Prolog AKA Mercury gen's C or Erlang ; Oz has gone quiet since 1.4 and Lively Kernel ? I have lost track of Croquet. User-friendly Scheme is now called Racket, btw. And "Claire", the lang ? Alice ? >> >> [ by way of explanation : this Monday is a bank-holiday here, but the nearest beaches have ice piled on them and its some other holiday in USA ; now for morning java ( as in coffee ) ] Isn't "brackets" some editor project ? >> >> >> >> >> >> On 21 April 2014 07:25, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com> wrote: >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> > On 20 Apr 2014, at 12:22, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: >> > >> > What does it do? >> >> For now on - syntax highlighting. I'll try to add more features in future >> >> Uko >> >> > >> > Norbert >> > >> >> Am 20.04.2014 um 08:35 schrieb Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com>: >> >> >> >> Dear guys who use Pillar. >> >> >> >> Iâm happy to announce that Iâve created a small bundle for TextMate. You can find it here: https://github.com/Uko/Pillar.tmbundle >> >> >> >> Also Iâve exported it to ATOM (new editor from github) package, but itâs crappy because ATOM lacks some stuff right not. Package is called: language-pillar, source is here: https://github.com/Uko/language-pillar >> >> >> >> I will be happy to hear your feedback, and add more features. >> >> >> >> Happy Easter! >> >> Uko >> >> >> >> P.S. (wonât be online for â30hours) >> > >> >> > >

April 21, 2014