February 2014 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] Which one should I download?

by Robert Shiplett

Stephan, Should there not be a simple mechanism for an image to advise the user that the current VM is below a minimum intended threshold version ? Have it only presented when not headless and debugging is available - and otherwise write to something better named than "stderr" ? Google mail (MarissaM's gMAIL) does this any time that I load it into IE 8 on Win XP ! In fact, even going to google.com in IE 8 ( not google.ca ... Canada has little history yet with class-action lawsuits, but we do have one precedent now ... ) tries to warn me that my IE is an unsupported browser ... and soon Google may warn me that my XP is not a supported variant of any known 32-bit OS for legacy Intel x86 ... insupportable, n'est pas/neh ? ;-) r On 26 February 2014 15:37, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: > Robert wrote > >I'm dragging and dropping in a fresh install > > No, you are not. > You are dropping a new image on an old vm. > Replace the vm and retry. > > Stephan > > >

Feb. 26, 2014

[ANN] Fuel 1.9.3

by Max Leske

Dear fellow Smalltalkers Mariano, Martin and myself are happy to announce Fuel version 1.9.3 which includes the follwing changes to 1.9 (1.9.1 and 1.9.2 were never officially announced): - (feature) the #fuelReplacement selector offers the ability to statically replace an object (e.g. with nil) during analysis. This can lead to significantly smaller graphs and improved speed when serializing large graphs - (feature) serialize the same graph that was analyzed instead of retrazing the graph during serialization. This prevents changes in the graph from happening between analysis and serialization - (change) store source when serializing CompiledMethod objects. Needed because Opal does not allow decompilation - (fix) migrate variables across hierarchy - (feature) Object>>serializeToFileNamed: shortcut for serializing arbitrary objects - (fix) better compression for LargeNegativeIntegers (https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/12052/Fuel-could-store-LargeNegativeInteg…) Pharo30 already includes most of these changes (integration request: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13000/Integrate-Fuel-1-9-3) This release runs with: - Pharo: 1.1.1, 1.1.2, 1.2, 1.2.2, 1.3, 1.4, 2.0, 3.0 - Squeak: 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, 4.4, 4.5 The documentation is not up to date yet but we will remedy that situatoin within the next couple of days (http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/web/pier/software/Fuel) If you encounter any bugs or have suggestions, please contact us on the Fuel mailing list (http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/roster/pharo-fuel) or create a new issue in our bug tracker (https://code.google.com/p/fuel/) We want to thank everyone who contributed to this release (by keyboard or opinion) and also all of those people who actively use Fuel. Cheers, Max

Feb. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Which one should I download?

by Robert Shiplett

btw in addition to some items on World | Windows menu having no effect, the World menu will no even open if the pointer is within what looks to be about the height of a minimized window tab from the bottom of the world desktop ... but does work all the way to the top pixels of the desktop - even on the Pharo "image" area top right ... so if the lower area is unclickable for the that click, should it not show that by being at least a darker shade or something ( this some hidden frame-like area for tabs, i suppose ) What is annoying is that if you are in a browser and want that menu, that bottom area is such a natural area to go to when windows are few ( a workspace, a browser, a test-runner) very best regrds, robret Canada On 26 February 2014 15:37, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: > Robert wrote > >I'm dragging and dropping in a fresh install > > No, you are not. > You are dropping a new image on an old vm. > Replace the vm and retry. > > Stephan > > >

Feb. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Which one should I download?

by Robert Shiplett

I go to our web site pharo-project.org I click on the 3.0 beta option and take the WIN installer ; I select the download from the browser once completed I unzip to an alpha-suffixed NEW directory such as Pharo3.0-win-BETA-C I check the README.txt in notepad++ I drag the image onto the exe ; run a sanity check ; quit without daving I go get latest.zip and unzip in a new folder in my downloads temp area I manually drag the two unzipped files from that new dir in the temp area into the new test Pharo dir, e.g., C:\Pharo3.0-win-BETA-C\Pharo 3.0\ I drag the new image with its suffixed-number-name onto pharo.exe I do a sanity check My last check reveals that the desktop/world menu item Send top window to back ( the one ending with the SLASH char ) has no effect But the same action on a window from upper right menu does have an effect Is that known ? I have now had the fatal error on both XP and on Win7 with Sp1 on a nice quad core with 16 GB RAM and a huge drive ( my home office work/dev box, not my writing desk laptop ) If the beta on the home page is not the current beta (prev night's build or latest good build), then we are making some of us useless as beta testers ... or at least this one beta tester exasperated ;-) best reagrds, Robert Canada On 26 February 2014 15:04, Pharo4Stef <pharo4Stef(a)free.fr> wrote: > > On 26 Feb 2014, at 19:16, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Stef > > I'm dragging and dropping in a fresh install > > first the image with the install > > then quit and again drag-drop the numbered image from latest.zip as > copied in by me manually ( only manual step after target dir named for > install ) > > I have some neuro-motor issues now, but they mostly impact my typing > skills ... there is only one EXE in the folder and I go slowly on the > touchpad, so this is not on me in any obvious thumbs-fumble ( the only way > I go now - slow and fumbliing ;-) > > Then I just do my most regular "flip about" routine ... we used to call it > "kicking the tires" ... a pilot can have a pre-flight walk-around protocol > because the design of the plane did not change since it last landed ;-) > > > Explain to us what you do exactly. > Record a video if necessary. > We want to chase these bugs if any. > > Stef > > > > regards > > robert > spelling via Google gmail > > > > > > On 26 February 2014 09:07, Pharo4Stef <pharo4Stef(a)free.fr> wrote: > >> robert >> >> Are you sure that you really use the latest version? >> Because I do not see why opening a window would be platform specific and >> I could not reproduce this problem. >> So do you have a real way to reproduce the problem? can you send us the >> debuglog? >> And BTW Pharo is our and your system and we work all to make it better so >> no need to be pushy it does not help. >> >> Stef >> >> >> On 26 Feb 2014, at 12:38, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> regardless ... >> >> I did a sanity check on the contents of yesterday's latest.zip and hit a >> walkback >> >> I then did a sanity check on the latest 3.0 installer and hit a different >> walkback. >> >> At least on Win XP 3.1 that does not feel like Beta but like alpha, in my >> experience. Unstable. >> >> Sanity check for a Smalltalk image >> >> open a browser >> open a workspace >> flip about in the browser [across packages, classes, instance view, >> class view, implementors and callers >> DoIt from workspace [never got here either time ; I would do smthg like >> a ProfStef or call up a browser ; no set routine as that way lies madness ] >> >> AND while doing the above, flip between windows, max /min [ I have been >> doing this for years ... it takes only a couple of minutes - it is not a >> step-wise protocol .... that would result in missing things that you >> wouldn't expect - and it is in NO way exhaustive ... it is just a sanity >> check ( Do you know what year it is? Who is the President of USA ? What is >> today's date ? How did you get here ? Do you know why you were >> [arrested/admitted/removed from the aircraft/booted outa the bar ... ) ] >> >> Hunch ONLY : >> >> Likely culprit ... each time I also opened for future use (and to have >> some frames open >> Metacello browser >> the 2 help items off the main popup menu (one general; one Tutorials - >> a new user is likely to do so ) >> >> I suspect one of the latter, based on Last Class Changed for that image >> ... but that will be my hunch for now ... >> >> ciao >> >> r >> >> >> >> >> On 26 February 2014 07:18, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> On 26 Feb 2014, at 11:30, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> "BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community." >>> >>> This still rankles ... I have been a Smalltalker since long before >>> Squeak and have been using Pharo since Seaside first ran on it - if not >>> earlier than that ... >>> >>> I also received from another on the mail list >>> >>> "and in fact I cannot reproduce it." >>> >>> "And in fact" is such a wicked rhetorical move ... in a game I have lost >>> all interest in playing now that I am retired. >>> >>> >>> it is not. >>> it was just saying that I tried your problem and I could not reproduce >>> it. It was not to been rethorical or anything, just pointing a fact. >>> Iâm interested (and is also my job) on having the best and stable >>> version of Pharo possible. >>> Iâm so interested that I was at 10min from leaving a my house to take an >>> 10h fly and I sit to try to reproduce your problem. >>> So, pleaseâ¦ do not misinterpret the contents of the mail. It was an >>> attempt to have an understanding of the problem, in an effort to help. >>> An effort, btw, that sometimes is not easy, because we do not have all >>> the elements to make the diagnosticâ¦ >>> >>> >>> It may take me a lot of effort to track these 2 bugs down as far as >>> "Follow these steps to reproduce" .. but then I am not a CONSORTIUM member >>> ( I used to pay big bucks for Smalltalk, back in the day ) so may be I am >>> too far outside the "whole community".... btw. >>> >>> >>> The community is here. In this list. Around the list. >>> Consortium is for companies willing to contribute with some money >>> support (and so is the association for individuals), because things cost >>> effort and effort implies time and time implies money. >>> We always try to solve the problems of everybody (we, the community, >>> including yourself), because thatâs the best for allâ¦ so do not put >>> yourself outside in a way we never say/act/even think about. >>> We want to help you. >>> >>> >>> I will spare you my plot's view of the term "stable" and the notion of >>> stability ... and will be sure I rename key files as I go along ... [ why >>> are we still having to rename files such as these when able to run multiple >>> images in the same dir ? ] >>> >>> >>> Your pov about stability can be ok. What is not ok is such amount of >>> negativity over a simple fact: we has not been able to reproduce your >>> problem (but you avoid the other obvious fact: we tried to reproduce it. So >>> we did not ignored you). >>> >>> Again, I try to help, as everybody in the communityâ¦ but such a negative >>> over-reaction is probably just compared to my own overeacted answer :) >>> >>> Esteban >>> >>> >>> >>> ciao >>> >>> >>> >>> On 26 February 2014 04:36, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On 26 Feb 2014, at 01:57, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> > I am running from that latest.zip tonight and PackageTreeNautilusUI >>>> >>update is getting a walkback messageNoUnderstood for >>>> > receiver of >>protocolsFor: is nil >>>> > >>>> > I simply flipped to class view in Announcements and then flipped that >>>> toggle back. >>>> > >>>> > Does this need to be reported, or is Nautilus still known to be >>>> unstable ? >>>> >>>> I can't reproduce this either, please be more specific. >>>> >>>> BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community. Of >>>> course, it is a complex piece of code with lots of UI and system >>>> interactions, so issues are always possible. >>>> >>>> Sven >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > >

Feb. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Which one should I download?

by Stephan Eggermont

Robert wrote: >I am unzipping from our zip on pharo-project.org page for 3.0 Beta > >If that is wrong, let's have someone fix that zip, that page, what-ever Thank you, sounds like you found the problem. I support your demand. Get a newer vm from http://files.pharo.org/vm/pharo/win/ until the problem is fixed. Stephan

Feb. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Which one should I download?

by Robert Shiplett

I am unzipping from our zip on pharo-project.org page for 3.0 Beta If that is wrong, let's have someone fix that zip, that page, what-ever THAT zip gives me a README.txt of : Pharo 3.0 This distribution was built February 25, 2014. Which I attach below Btw, desktop menu move top window to back seems to have no effect ( unless fired from a given window and not the Pharo world area ) regards PS The image has an ABOUT as follows: Pharo3.0 Latest update: #30782 LICENSE Licensed under the MIT License with parts under the Apache License. Copyright (c) 2008-2014 The Pharo Project, and Contributors Copyright (c) 2008-2014 Inria Copyright (c) 1996-2008 Viewpoints Research Institute, and Contributors Copyright (c) 1996 Apple Computer, Inc. Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions: The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software. THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE. You may obtain a copy of the Apache License at http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0 Pharo uses icons by Mark James (http://www.famfamfam.com) under Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 License. Pharo uses icons by Eclipse under Eclipse Public License - v 1.0 http://www.eclipse.org/legal/epl-v10.html Pharo uses Source Code Pro Fonts by Adobe under SIL Open Font License, v 1.1 http://scripts.sil.org/OFL Pharo uses Open Sans by Steve Matteson under Apache License, 2.0 http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.html On 26 February 2014 15:37, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: > Robert wrote > >I'm dragging and dropping in a fresh install > > No, you are not. > You are dropping a new image on an old vm. > Replace the vm and retry. > > Stephan > > >

Feb. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] Pharo-Business: a new mailing-list

by Santiago Bragagnolo

I'm in :) 2014-02-26 20:05 GMT+01:00 Pharo4Stef <pharo4Stef(a)free.fr>: > Dear Pharoers and Smalltalkers from all over the world > > We would really like to push business in our community and we believe that > it is important to create a community around business questions. > We created a new mailing-list > > > http://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-business_lists.pharo.org > > The idea is to identify > - potential market > - missing technical solutions that we could build together > - share technical assets from a business perspective (which > frameworks for what). > > We hope that you will like the idea and that more business can emerge! > >

Feb. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Which one should I download?

by Stephan Eggermont

Robert wrote >I'm dragging and dropping in a fresh install No, you are not. You are dropping a new image on an old vm. Replace the vm and retry. Stephan

Feb. 26, 2014

Pharo-Business: a new mailing-list

by Pharo4Stef

Dear Pharoers and Smalltalkers from all over the world We would really like to push business in our community and we believe that it is important to create a community around business questions. We created a new mailing-list http://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-business_lists.pharo.org The idea is to identify - potential market - missing technical solutions that we could build together - share technical assets from a business perspective (which frameworks for what). We hope that you will like the idea and that more business can emerge!

Feb. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Which one should I download?

by Pharo4Stef

On 26 Feb 2014, at 19:16, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Stef > > I'm dragging and dropping in a fresh install > > first the image with the install > > then quit and again drag-drop the numbered image from latest.zip as copied in by me manually ( only manual step after target dir named for install ) > > I have some neuro-motor issues now, but they mostly impact my typing skills ... there is only one EXE in the folder and I go slowly on the touchpad, so this is not on me in any obvious thumbs-fumble ( the only way I go now - slow and fumbliing ;-) > > Then I just do my most regular "flip about" routine ... we used to call it "kicking the tires" ... a pilot can have a pre-flight walk-around protocol because the design of the plane did not change since it last landed ;-) Explain to us what you do exactly. Record a video if necessary. We want to chase these bugs if any. Stef > > regards > > robert > spelling via Google gmail > > > > > > On 26 February 2014 09:07, Pharo4Stef <pharo4Stef(a)free.fr> wrote: > robert > > Are you sure that you really use the latest version? > Because I do not see why opening a window would be platform specific and I could not reproduce this problem. > So do you have a real way to reproduce the problem? can you send us the debuglog? > And BTW Pharo is our and your system and we work all to make it better so no need to be pushy it does not help. > > Stef > > > On 26 Feb 2014, at 12:38, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> regardless ... >> >> I did a sanity check on the contents of yesterday's latest.zip and hit a walkback >> >> I then did a sanity check on the latest 3.0 installer and hit a different walkback. >> >> At least on Win XP 3.1 that does not feel like Beta but like alpha, in my experience. Unstable. >> >> Sanity check for a Smalltalk image >> >> open a browser >> open a workspace >> flip about in the browser [across packages, classes, instance view, class view, implementors and callers >> DoIt from workspace [never got here either time ; I would do smthg like a ProfStef or call up a browser ; no set routine as that way lies madness ] >> >> AND while doing the above, flip between windows, max /min [ I have been doing this for years ... it takes only a couple of minutes - it is not a step-wise protocol .... that would result in missing things that you wouldn't expect - and it is in NO way exhaustive ... it is just a sanity check ( Do you know what year it is? Who is the President of USA ? What is today's date ? How did you get here ? Do you know why you were [arrested/admitted/removed from the aircraft/booted outa the bar ... ) ] >> >> Hunch ONLY : >> >> Likely culprit ... each time I also opened for future use (and to have some frames open >> Metacello browser >> the 2 help items off the main popup menu (one general; one Tutorials - a new user is likely to do so ) >> >> I suspect one of the latter, based on Last Class Changed for that image ... but that will be my hunch for now ... >> >> ciao >> >> r >> >> >> >> >> On 26 February 2014 07:18, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> On 26 Feb 2014, at 11:30, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> "BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community." >>> >>> This still rankles ... I have been a Smalltalker since long before Squeak and have been using Pharo since Seaside first ran on it - if not earlier than that ... >>> >>> I also received from another on the mail list >>> >>> "and in fact I cannot reproduce it." >>> >>> "And in fact" is such a wicked rhetorical move ... in a game I have lost all interest in playing now that I am retired. >> >> it is not. >> it was just saying that I tried your problem and I could not reproduce it. It was not to been rethorical or anything, just pointing a fact. >> Iâm interested (and is also my job) on having the best and stable version of Pharo possible. >> Iâm so interested that I was at 10min from leaving a my house to take an 10h fly and I sit to try to reproduce your problem. >> So, pleaseâ¦ do not misinterpret the contents of the mail. It was an attempt to have an understanding of the problem, in an effort to help. >> An effort, btw, that sometimes is not easy, because we do not have all the elements to make the diagnosticâ¦ >> >>> >>> It may take me a lot of effort to track these 2 bugs down as far as "Follow these steps to reproduce" .. but then I am not a CONSORTIUM member ( I used to pay big bucks for Smalltalk, back in the day ) so may be I am too far outside the "whole community".... btw. >> >> The community is here. In this list. Around the list. >> Consortium is for companies willing to contribute with some money support (and so is the association for individuals), because things cost effort and effort implies time and time implies money. >> We always try to solve the problems of everybody (we, the community, including yourself), because thatâs the best for allâ¦ so do not put yourself outside in a way we never say/act/even think about. >> We want to help you. >> >>> >>> I will spare you my plot's view of the term "stable" and the notion of stability ... and will be sure I rename key files as I go along ... [ why are we still having to rename files such as these when able to run multiple images in the same dir ? ] >> >> Your pov about stability can be ok. What is not ok is such amount of negativity over a simple fact: we has not been able to reproduce your problem (but you avoid the other obvious fact: we tried to reproduce it. So we did not ignored you). >> >> Again, I try to help, as everybody in the communityâ¦ but such a negative over-reaction is probably just compared to my own overeacted answer :) >> >> Esteban >> >> >>> >>> ciao >>> >>> >>> >>> On 26 February 2014 04:36, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>> >>> On 26 Feb 2014, at 01:57, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> > I am running from that latest.zip tonight and PackageTreeNautilusUI >>update is getting a walkback messageNoUnderstood for >>> > receiver of >>protocolsFor: is nil >>> > >>> > I simply flipped to class view in Announcements and then flipped that toggle back. >>> > >>> > Does this need to be reported, or is Nautilus still known to be unstable ? >>> >>> I can't reproduce this either, please be more specific. >>> >>> BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community. Of course, it is a complex piece of code with lots of UI and system interactions, so issues are always possible. >>> >>> Sven >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > >

Feb. 26, 2014