February 2014 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] for those not in the smalltalk-gsoc-mentors mailing-list nor in esug

by Janko MivÅ¡ek

.. and of course my answer: Dear Smalltalkers, Stef is overreacting as always, going off-topic and don't want to see the real reasons behind this proposal. Which is to make GSoC attractive to all Smalltalkers by removing the last doubt about the any bias towards any Smalltalk or group. That's why I propose to go more independent under new name 'Smalltalk', besides a clearly better visibility of such name of course. I invite you to follow the debate on GSoC mentor list: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors All mentors with voting rights on past GSoCs please join back to this mailing list and help with debate: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/join Best regards Janko --- Janko MivÅ¡ek Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team Dne 08. 02. 2014 10:53, piÅ¡e Pharo4Stef: > Iâm sorry to have to forward you this kind of mail but I do it. > I will not send other emails on the topics. > > Stef > > > Dear community > > On the smalltalk-gsoc-mentors(a)googlegroups.com > <mailto:smalltalk-gsoc-mentors@googlegroups.com> janko is kind of > declaring that ESUG was not doing a good job managing > GSOC. We feel insulted and we are quite concerned by that fact. > Personally if students would not be involved I would vote that ESUG does > not have anything to do with GSOC. Because it costs us money, time and > stress. Note in addition that we never interferred with the choice or > anything. > > I will ask the ESUG board to decide because we cannot do the job, spend > time, money and be treated like that. > Sorry! We are sad but this is like that. > > Then we do not like the kind of mails that Janko is sending us about the > fact that ESUG is biased towards Pharo. > Where are the research teams and teachers? Of course: the mails of > janko are just so nice. I let you judge. > > It is particularly fun since this year we (the pharo board) decided not > to organise a Pharo conference to avoid competing with ESUG. > >> About motivations for my proposal: >> >> 1. 'Smalltalk' is more recognizable name on first spot that 'ESUG' . >> And this matters when a student looks at around 150 GSoC organizations >> to choose, which one to check and try. See last year list of orgs >> <http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/list/public/google/gsoc2013>. >> >> 2. ESUG is currently regarded by many as too biased towards Pharo. Let >> we avoid starting debating is this is true or not. Making our org more >> independent will I hope remove any remaining doubt about that. > > > I feel shocked and insulted but I take it easy, having success make you > as easy target for jaleous people. This is strange that > some people would prefer to have a non existing/moving open-source > smalltalk. May be the losers theory. > > I added the answer of marcus below (because marcus usually is much > calmer than me) so that Janko succeeded to get marcus reacting like that > is a nice proof in itself. > > Seriously Smalltalk is in a so good shape in presence of lua, > Javascript, ruby and python, clojure that we should fight. > > Excellent idea thank for this nice initiative. > > Stef > > > > > Begin forwarded message: > >> *From: *Janko MivÅ¡ek <janko.mivsek(a)gmail.com >> <mailto:janko.mivsek@gmail.com>> >> *Subject: **[gsoc-mentors] Running under 'Smalltalk' org. name* >> *Date: *8 Feb 2014 08:46:18 GMT+1 >> *To: *smalltalk-gsoc-mentors(a)googlegroups.com >> <mailto:smalltalk-gsoc-mentors@googlegroups.com> >> *Reply-To: *smalltalk-gsoc-mentors(a)googlegroups.com >> <mailto:smalltalk-gsoc-mentors@googlegroups.com> >> >> Dear mentors, >> >> I propose that we run this year GSoC simply under 'Smalltalk' name. >> Mentoring organization will be us mentors of past and current GSoCs, >> as the name 'mentoring organization' implies anyway. Such organization >> therefore doesn't need to be some kind of legal entity. >> >> Because I need to open a new website and we have only one week to >> deadline, decision needs to be done soon. >> >> Best regards >> Janko >> >> --- >> Janko MivÅ¡ek >> Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Smalltalk GSoC mentors" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> an email to smalltalk-gsoc-mentors+unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com >> <mailto:smalltalk-gsoc-mentors+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > Of course you need it: I filled out quite some paperwork for Google. > ESUG is an official Google supplier, for that I filled american tax > forms and so on. > > Without an organisation that will be very difficult. How do yu receive > money for the flight if someone goes to the meeting in the fall? > > One of the reasons why the Smalltalk GSOC was accepted was I think that > it was the same organisation that is already in the books of google. > > And I do not see why to change that: ESUG did a good job, we even lost > money (that is, we spend more money on additional Summer of Code slots > than got in with the money from google). > We payed all additional expenses of the people going to the Summit: > Google only pays the flight and hotel. Everyhting else not (e.g. going > from the airpot > to the hotel). > > > What we need to discuss this year is if additional slots make sense: We > had last year the fast that > a) it was very expensive for ESUG > b) even then, we got complaints that it was unfair that we did not pay > the same as google > c) that it was very extremely unfair that the student could not put > âGoogle Summer of Codeâ on the CV. > > The last is the Killer: money from ESUG is just money. GSoC is more. So > we ask if it is really worth to spend the money > if even the students are not happy about it. > > And if your motivation behind is that this way you think it will be > easier to enable âQuotasâ for different Smalltalks: I think this is a > dumb idea. > > Yes, Pharo is very active. So could every other Smalltalk be, too. They > just need to do it. If they do not, it is not my duty to limit > my activity for âFairnessâ. Limiting the activity level of those who do > to be more âin lineâ with what those do who do nothing is just > *insane*. Itâs a description of death itself. > > Marcus >

Feb. 8, 2014

for those not in the smalltalk-gsoc-mentors mailing-list nor in esug

by Pharo4Stef

Iâm sorry to have to forward you this kind of mail but I do it. I will not send other emails on the topics. Stef Dear community On the smalltalk-gsoc-mentors(a)googlegroups.com janko is kind of declaring that ESUG was not doing a good job managing GSOC. We feel insulted and we are quite concerned by that fact. Personally if students would not be involved I would vote that ESUG does not have anything to do with GSOC. Because it costs us money, time and stress. Note in addition that we never interferred with the choice or anything. I will ask the ESUG board to decide because we cannot do the job, spend time, money and be treated like that. Sorry! We are sad but this is like that. Then we do not like the kind of mails that Janko is sending us about the fact that ESUG is biased towards Pharo. Where are the research teams and teachers? Of course: the mails of janko are just so nice. I let you judge. It is particularly fun since this year we (the pharo board) decided not to organise a Pharo conference to avoid competing with ESUG. > About motivations for my proposal: > > 1. 'Smalltalk' is more recognizable name on first spot that 'ESUG' . And this matters when a student looks at around 150 GSoC organizations to choose, which one to check and try. See last year list of orgs. > > 2. ESUG is currently regarded by many as too biased towards Pharo. Let we avoid starting debating is this is true or not. Making our org more independent will I hope remove any remaining doubt about that. I feel shocked and insulted but I take it easy, having success make you as easy target for jaleous people. This is strange that some people would prefer to have a non existing/moving open-source smalltalk. May be the losers theory. I added the answer of marcus below (because marcus usually is much calmer than me) so that Janko succeeded to get marcus reacting like that is a nice proof in itself. Seriously Smalltalk is in a so good shape in presence of lua, Javascript, ruby and python, clojure that we should fight. Excellent idea thank for this nice initiative. Stef Begin forwarded message: > From: Janko MivÅ¡ek <janko.mivsek(a)gmail.com> > Subject: [gsoc-mentors] Running under 'Smalltalk' org. name > Date: 8 Feb 2014 08:46:18 GMT+1 > To: smalltalk-gsoc-mentors(a)googlegroups.com > Reply-To: smalltalk-gsoc-mentors(a)googlegroups.com > > Dear mentors, > > I propose that we run this year GSoC simply under 'Smalltalk' name. Mentoring organization will be us mentors of past and current GSoCs, as the name 'mentoring organization' implies anyway. Such organization therefore doesn't need to be some kind of legal entity. > > Because I need to open a new website and we have only one week to deadline, decision needs to be done soon. > > Best regards > Janko > > --- > Janko MivÅ¡ek > Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Smalltalk GSoC mentors" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to smalltalk-gsoc-mentors+unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. Of course you need it: I filled out quite some paperwork for Google. ESUG is an official Google supplier, for that I filled american tax forms and so on. Without an organisation that will be very difficult. How do yu receive money for the flight if someone goes to the meeting in the fall? One of the reasons why the Smalltalk GSOC was accepted was I think that it was the same organisation that is already in the books of google. And I do not see why to change that: ESUG did a good job, we even lost money (that is, we spend more money on additional Summer of Code slots than got in with the money from google). We payed all additional expenses of the people going to the Summit: Google only pays the flight and hotel. Everyhting else not (e.g. going from the airpot to the hotel). What we need to discuss this year is if additional slots make sense: We had last year the fast that a) it was very expensive for ESUG b) even then, we got complaints that it was unfair that we did not pay the same as google c) that it was very extremely unfair that the student could not put âGoogle Summer of Codeâ on the CV. The last is the Killer: money from ESUG is just money. GSoC is more. So we ask if it is really worth to spend the money if even the students are not happy about it. And if your motivation behind is that this way you think it will be easier to enable âQuotasâ for different Smalltalks: I think this is a dumb idea. Yes, Pharo is very active. So could every other Smalltalk be, too. They just need to do it. If they do not, it is not my duty to limit my activity for âFairnessâ. Limiting the activity level of those who do to be more âin lineâ with what those do who do nothing is just *insane*. Itâs a description of death itself. Marcus

Feb. 8, 2014

[launcher] to manage StartupLoader scripts

by btc＠openinworld.com

Just an off the cuff idea... it might be useful if PharoLauncher helped manage/edit the StartupLoader scripts. Any thoughts? cheers -ben

Feb. 8, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Fwd: NativeBoost and standard out

by Igor Stasenko

On 7 February 2014 18:38, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: > This is compounded by the fact that I regularly have stdout and stderr > making my image hanging for some weird reason. > > blocking i/o + buffering on other end of pipe ==>> "hanging" image :) > Phil > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 6:29 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com>wrote: > >> Emilio Oca-3 wrote >> >> Maybe does this help >> > Yes! beatiful and lovely >> >> Ugh, we really need to document the external process options so people >> don't >> have to go through this frustration again and again. Ultimately, it'd be >> great to have at least one library that works on all platforms... >> >> >> >> ----- >> Cheers, >> Sean >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://forum.world.st/Fwd-NativeBoost-and-standard-out-tp4732117p4742216.ht… >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> >> > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Feb. 8, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] Nice chapter on NativeBoost

by Igor Stasenko

On 7 February 2014 21:41, Pharo4Stef <pharo4Stef(a)free.fr> wrote: > Hi guys > > today igor helped me to understand some hidden part of NativeBoost and we > massively revisited and expanded the chapter started > by L. Laffont this summer. Now you this is up to you to expand your > knowledge :) It was really fun to get the X11 window resize and move :) > > > https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/PharoForTheEnterprise/lastSucces… > > https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/PharoForTheEnterprise/lastSucces… > > Enjoy. > Hehe, even i learned something today, that actually you can play with X11 even on Mac, because it has X11 support installed out of the box. (Btw, Stef you probably should mention that in chapter, especially details if you need to install something extra or not). > > Stef and Igor > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

Feb. 8, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Please help beta test Pharo 3.0 NOW !

by Pharo4Stef

tx sven On 07 Feb 2014, at 12:07, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > Dear fellow Pharoers, > > > Pharo 2.0 was released in March 2013, after which development of Pharo 3.0 started. Since December 2013 we stopped adding new features and started concentrating on fixing bugs. We plan to release Pharo 3.0 in March 2014. > > You can help: please help beta test Pharo 3.0 NOW, before it is released, not after. You can help us tremendously by doing this. Together we can improve the quality and polish for a great release. > > http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download/beta-3-0 > > http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/PharoLauncher > > http://get.pharo.org > > The mailing lists are one way to give feedback, but it is even better to report problems as issues. > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/ > > > Remember, it is your Pharo. > > Thank you! > > > On behalf of the whole team, Sven > >

Feb. 7, 2014

Nice chapter on NativeBoost

by Pharo4Stef

Hi guys today igor helped me to understand some hidden part of NativeBoost and we massively revisited and expanded the chapter started by L. Laffont this summer. Now you this is up to you to expand your knowledge :) It was really fun to get the X11 window resize and move :) https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/PharoForTheEnterprise/lastSucces… https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/job/PharoForTheEnterprise/lastSucces… Enjoy. Stef and Igor

Feb. 7, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Fwd: NativeBoost and standard out

by GOUBIER Thierry

+1 : one library that works ! Thierry ________________________________________ De : Pharo-users [pharo-users-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org] de la part de Sean P. DeNigris [sean(a)clipperadams.com] Date d'envoi : vendredi 7 fÃ©vrier 2014 18:29 Ã : pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org Objet : Re: [Pharo-users] Fwd: NativeBoost and standard out Emilio Oca-3 wrote >> Maybe does this help > Yes! beatiful and lovely Ugh, we really need to document the external process options so people don't have to go through this frustration again and again. Ultimately, it'd be great to have at least one library that works on all platforms... ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Fwd-NativeBoost-and-standard-out-tp4732117p4742216.ht… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Feb. 7, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Fwd: NativeBoost and standard out

by Emilio Oca

Yes, that would be great. First time doing something like this, tried 4 options so far. Features seems to overlap a lot and with few example tests (or none) referencing most of the interface offered. I am sure an illiterate on pluggins, dlls or API calling, it was difficult for me to figure out how to do something different or more complex than the samples offered. Best Emilio > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] En nombre > de Sean P. DeNigris > Enviado el: Viernes, 07 de Febrero de 2014 14:29 > Para: pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org > Asunto: Re: [Pharo-users] Fwd: NativeBoost and standard out > > Emilio Oca-3 wrote > >> Maybe does this help > > Yes! beatiful and lovely > > Ugh, we really need to document the external process options so people > don't > have to go through this frustration again and again. Ultimately, it'd be > great to have at least one library that works on all platforms... > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Fwd-NativeBoost-and- > standard-out-tp4732117p4742216.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Feb. 7, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Fwd: NativeBoost and standard out

by phil＠highoctane.be

This is compounded by the fact that I regularly have stdout and stderr making my image hanging for some weird reason. Phil On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 6:29 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com>wrote: > Emilio Oca-3 wrote > >> Maybe does this help > > Yes! beatiful and lovely > > Ugh, we really need to document the external process options so people > don't > have to go through this frustration again and again. Ultimately, it'd be > great to have at least one library that works on all platforms... > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Fwd-NativeBoost-and-standard-out-tp4732117p4742216.ht… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > >

Feb. 7, 2014