February 2014 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] [gsoc-mentors] The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude

by Marcus Denker

On 10 Feb 2014, at 11:08, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > >> Phil, >> >> This matter is actually very important for Smalltalk community, because >> it exposes nontransparent, meddling behind the scenes, and in some cases >> blatantly unethical behavior of some ESUG board members. Which is >> certainly bad for our community on long term. > > > > Janko CAN YOU STOP! > > "blatantly unethical behaviorâ > Really > I propose we do at the next ESUG the following: - the general assembly sets up and vote for a small group (3-5 people?) - they look into the issues - then report back to the general assembly It will of course been taken care that this gremium is independed. Because via email this is really not going to work. Marcus

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude

by Janko MivÅ¡ek

Hi Damien, First, I do not insult anyone and certainly praise the ESUG and you guys for all work you are doing. On the other side I cannot go over bad things happening like this one. Unacceptable behavior must be exposed and treated accordingly, as I said this is needed for any community to stay healthy long-term. > ESUG might have done a mistake giving 5000â¬ to the students and not > the amount that people voted for. I should have paid more attention to > that and I apologize. That's all I will apologize for. Thanks for your apologize, it is appreciated. Still I think we deserve an apologize from those who spreaded privately and publicly the 'we lost money' claim. > Now, I want to have details about your message. What do you mean by > "blatantly unethical behavior"? At which point have we been unethical? This is story from GSoC 2010, a first GSoC I run as admin. Because it is so blatant, I give to the main actor a first word, then I'll explain and put on table my side of the story and arguments. In any case, this story is main reason that I started then already pushing Smalltalk GSoC to be as independent as possible, with current rename to Smalltalk proposal as a culmination. Best regards Janko Dne 10. 02. 2014 10:40, piÅ¡e Damien Cassou: > On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 9:29 AM, Janko MivÅ¡ek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si> wrote: >> This matter is actually very important for Smalltalk community, because >> it exposes nontransparent, meddling behind the scenes, and in some cases >> blatantly unethical behavior of some ESUG board members. > > I thank you for your efforts running the GSoC marathon every year. > > Nevertheless, as a member of the board I feel insulted again by you > Janko. I'm tired spending hours doing work for everyone and get such a > message as an answer > > > Now, I want to have details about your message. What do you mean by > "blatantly unethical behavior"? At which point have we been unethical? > > Last time we talked about the representation of the Smalltalk > community in the ESUG board, I asked people from other communities to > apply and come work with us > (http://lists.esug.org/pipermail/esug-list_lists.esug.org/2012-July/001849.h…) > Nobody applied! I will ask again, thanks for the remainder. Who is > going to take care of ESUG if we focus on taking care of Pharo? > > Please stop insulting people. If you want to stop organizing the GSoC > for the Smalltalk community just say it clearly and we will all thank > you for the effort you have put in during this last years. But if you > want to continue, please do it with ESUG as this is what the ESUG > community seems to want if I analyse the answers you got to the recent > threads. >

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] [Esug-list] [Pharo-dev] [gsoc-mentors] The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude

by Andres Valloud

1. Having this discussion *now* is just hugely counterproductive. This conversation should have been had, preferably in person and with abundant social lubricants, last year after the end of the previous GSoC. In that way, we wouldn't have all this drama on top of the stress of doing a GSoC and meeting its deadlines etc. 2. Could you please focus on the problem, and not on people? Nothing good will come out of personal judgments, insults, disrespect, etc. It doesn't even matter if whoever is saying those things is "right". Abusing other people helps promote even more community division by presenting a choice of *who* (instead of *what*) is right. 3. Could the interested parties set up an N-way conference call or some such, and reach a conclusion in a reasonable manner? Email is horrible for these kinds of discussions, it's extremely easy to end up with exaggerated interpretations of what is said and then we all get to see flame wars that end nowhere --- like the flame wars on the same subject ***last year***. Write minutes, report the progress in a neutral manner on the ESUG mailing list, whatever you choose --- just be sensible and professional. If you recall, we have seen an extremely good example of how to deal with uncomfortable situations in the ESUG mailing list not long ago. It can be done. 4. 4000 EUR is not peanuts, I agree. I will also point out that 4000 EUR doesn't pay for a lot of our time when we measure it by the measuring stick of consulting hours. I strongly suspect we are wasting a lot more money than 4000 EUR with this endless controversy. The current process for dealing with this issue will, at best, result in a Pyrrhic victory. Think about it, even on the "cheap side" of 1 EUR / minute, don't you think we have collectively spent far more than 67 hours on this stuff without even getting close to a resolution? Think about it: 67 hours is less than 2 weeks. I don't think we can afford that kind of "success". On 2/10/14 1:19 , Joachim Tuchel wrote: > Phil, > > That's your opinion. I don't think money of sponsors should be spent > with such an attitude. > > Unfortunately, I do not fully unerstand what Janko is saying and the > links he provided don't help me really. Is he saying that the ESUG board > ignored the vote of gsoc mentors on how much to pay to students in the > additional projects? Was that money spent unequally and does Janko say > this was unfair and does he say the projects that got more did so > because they were pharo projects? > > If so, this needs some explanation. If it's not true, we can go on and > say the board did it with the members' placet. Then we can shrug and say > "so what?" Thats what we have a motivated and elected board for. > > I agree with you in so far as this is a really bad moment in time for > this discussion. If all of tgis means gsoc comes to a halt for Smalltalk > because we cannot apply in time, that would be really a pity. > > As a sponsor, I'd like to know what Janko is really up to and if the way > things went is okay, since I want our money to be spent for positive > things, like the yearly conference and many other great things esug is > doing. > > As a sponsor, I wouldn't want to see anybody in the board to think about > our money the way you expresss it here. Even if Esug is a european > organization, it has very limited financial abilities, and 4000 euros > thrown away or used unethically is not peanuts. > > Joachim > > > > phil(a)highoctane.be schrieb: > > Guys, > > From the outside it just looks like a couple of spoiled kids battling > in the kindergarten. > > All of this is not moving Smalltalk and Pharo any single bit forward. > Backwards, there is a fair chance. > > Now, could you take this discussion elsewhere? Pick up a phone and talk. > > Who cares if anyone is right? Oh yeah, EUR 4K, what a huge amount to > fight over for an European org... (rolleyes). > > Phil > > > > > On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 8:29 AM, Luc Fabresse <luc.fabresse(a)gmail.com > <mailto:luc.fabresse@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Hi Janko, > > I do not have all numbers at hand now but in 2013 there were 4 > extra-GSOC but we paid only 3 because one student gave > up (Jean-Baptiste Beuzelin). > So yes you are probably right that it remains money if we integrate > last year BUT we were willing to spend it. > > Luc > > > 2014-02-09 Janko MivÅ¡ek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si > <mailto:janko.mivsek@eranova.si>>: > > Dear all, > > First to Luc: from your numbers it is clear that you are not to be > blamed on anything, because you were obviously misinformed and > misguided. > > Facts namely are: > > 1. GSoC mentors decided to pay extra stipendiums 3000 USD [1] while > ESUG without approval paid 2000 more, 5000 USD, without any > report > back to GSoC mentors, > > 2. GSoC mentors decided to add past GSoC2012 amount to the pool for > paying extra projects [2][3]. > > Calculation (without the Summit expenses) therefore is: > > Income: GSoC 2012 13x 500 = 6.500 USD > GSoC 2013 13x 500 = 6.500 USD > ------------------------------ > 13.000 USD > > Expenses: > Extra stipendiums: 3x 3.000 = 9.000 USD > > Difference: + 4.000 USD > > If ESUG would follow the decisions of GSoC mentors it wouldn't > loose any > money but gain 4.000 USD. > > Those that misinformed and misguided you needs therefore to > apologize to > you Luc, to the GSoC mentors and to me as admin! > > Janko > > [1] > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/Yrlj8dIgGPg > [2] > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/WwnxpkXzAB8 > [3] > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/tR44jdPT5Hw > > > Dne 09. 02. 2014 17:26, piÅ¡e Luc Fabresse: > > Hi all, > > > > ------------ > > FACTS > > > > As you all know, I am the ESUG treasurer. > > So please find the numbers attached for the ESUG support of GSOC > > projects in 2013. > > > > ESUG sponsored 3 "extra-GSOC" meaning extra slots not > accepted by Google. > > In the file it is: Alejandro Infante, Pablo Estefo and > Benjamin Arezki. > > > > All in all we paid: > > - 3695EUR (~5000USD at that time i.e. same cost as a regular > GSOC) each > > projects > > - Serge trip to Mentor summit > > > > And we received 5552EUR from Google > > > > so yes we lost ~6582EUR > > That is easy 13*500 USD would only cover 1 plain extra-Gsoc > and we > > sponsorized 3. > > > > I also think that it is important to send someone to the GSoc > mentor > > summit because it participates to the fact that Google > recognizes ESUG > > ang gives slots the next year. > > > > It is alos important to note dates. > > ESUG paid first and then has been refund by Google. > > It would not be possible to do it without ESUG. > > > > ------------ > > FROM HERE, MY POINT OF VIEW ON THIS STORY: > > > > As some of you know, I doing the ESUG treasury stuff on my > *own* time > > and it takes a lot! > > I am doing it because I strongly believe that Smalltalk (all > falvors!) > > is a really great language that should be more widespread. > > > > I also completely open to discussions. > > The ESUG board can also explain its actions and even money > status. > > I can do errors too. > > So if Janko wants some details on GSOC related money, JUST ASK! > > > > I cannot admit that: > > > > - Janko wrote about some money accusation. This is directly > directed > > against the treasurer so me. > > And honestly, just reading again that I am biased and that I > hide or > > steal money make me think that I should better quit. > > > > - Janko asked for apologies! what is that? even if I would > have done a > > mistake (and ESUG did not loose money), YOU STILL MUST THANK > ME for > > DOING THIS BORING TASK! and then I can correct mistakes if any > > > > - People wants an answer fast, this conversation started > yesterday and I > > am spending my week-end with my kids > > > > > > I am really fed up with this kind of attitude. > > Stop accuse, better ask, discuss and we will solve the > problems together > > if any. > > But I think it will never happen... > > > > #Luc > > The disgusted Treasurer of ESUG who will finish his week-end > in bad mood > > > > > -- > Janko MivÅ¡ek > Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team > > >

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] [Esug-list] [Pharo-dev] [gsoc-mentors] The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude

by Damien Cassou

On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 9:29 AM, Janko MivÅ¡ek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si> wrote: > This matter is actually very important for Smalltalk community, because > it exposes nontransparent, meddling behind the scenes, and in some cases > blatantly unethical behavior of some ESUG board members. I thank you for your efforts running the GSoC marathon every year. Nevertheless, as a member of the board I feel insulted again by you Janko. I'm tired spending hours doing work for everyone and get such a message as an answer ESUG might have done a mistake giving 5000â¬ to the students and not the amount that people voted for. I should have paid more attention to that and I apologize. That's all I will apologize for. Now, I want to have details about your message. What do you mean by "blatantly unethical behavior"? At which point have we been unethical? Last time we talked about the representation of the Smalltalk community in the ESUG board, I asked people from other communities to apply and come work with us (http://lists.esug.org/pipermail/esug-list_lists.esug.org/2012-July/001849.h…) Nobody applied! I will ask again, thanks for the remainder. Who is going to take care of ESUG if we focus on taking care of Pharo? Please stop insulting people. If you want to stop organizing the GSoC for the Smalltalk community just say it clearly and we will all thank you for the effort you have put in during this last years. But if you want to continue, please do it with ESUG as this is what the ESUG community seems to want if I analyse the answers you got to the recent threads. -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without losing enthusiasm." Winston Churchill

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] [Esug-list] [Pharo-dev] [gsoc-mentors] The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude

by Joachim Tuchel

Phil, That's your opinion. I don't think money of sponsors should be spent with such an attitude. Unfortunately, I do not fully unerstand what Janko is saying and the links he provided don't help me really. Is he saying that the ESUG board ignored the vote of gsoc mentors on how much to pay to students in the additional projects? Was that money spent unequally and does Janko say this was unfair and does he say the projects that got more did so because they were pharo projects? If so, this needs some explanation. If it's not true, we can go on and say the board did it with the members' placet. Then we can shrug and say "so what?" Thats what we have a motivated and elected board for. I agree with you in so far as this is a really bad moment in time for this discussion. If all of tgis means gsoc comes to a halt for Smalltalk because we cannot apply in time, that would be really a pity. As a sponsor, I'd like to know what Janko is really up to and if the way things went is okay, since I want our money to be spent for positive things, like the yearly conference and many other great things esug is doing. As a sponsor, I wouldn't want to see anybody in the board to think about our money the way you expresss it here. Even if Esug is a european organization, it has very limited financial abilities, and 4000 euros thrown away or used unethically is not peanuts. Joachim phil(a)highoctane.be schrieb: >Guys, > >>From the outside it just looks like a couple of spoiled kids battling in >the kindergarten. > >All of this is not moving Smalltalk and Pharo any single bit forward. >Backwards, there is a fair chance. > >Now, could you take this discussion elsewhere? Pick up a phone and talk. > >Who cares if anyone is right? Oh yeah, EUR 4K, what a huge amount to fight >over for an European org... (rolleyes). > >Phil > > > > >On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 8:29 AM, Luc Fabresse <luc.fabresse(a)gmail.com>wrote: > >> Hi Janko, >> >> I do not have all numbers at hand now but in 2013 there were 4 extra-GSOC >> but we paid only 3 because one student gave up (Jean-Baptiste Beuzelin). >> So yes you are probably right that it remains money if we integrate last >> year BUT we were willing to spend it. >> >> Luc >> >> >> 2014-02-09 Janko MivÅ¡ek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si>: >> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> First to Luc: from your numbers it is clear that you are not to be >>> blamed on anything, because you were obviously misinformed and misguided. >>> >>> Facts namely are: >>> >>> 1. GSoC mentors decided to pay extra stipendiums 3000 USD [1] while >>> ESUG without approval paid 2000 more, 5000 USD, without any report >>> back to GSoC mentors, >>> >>> 2. GSoC mentors decided to add past GSoC2012 amount to the pool for >>> paying extra projects [2][3]. >>> >>> Calculation (without the Summit expenses) therefore is: >>> >>> Income: GSoC 2012 13x 500 = 6.500 USD >>> GSoC 2013 13x 500 = 6.500 USD >>> ------------------------------ >>> 13.000 USD >>> >>> Expenses: >>> Extra stipendiums: 3x 3.000 = 9.000 USD >>> >>> Difference: + 4.000 USD >>> >>> If ESUG would follow the decisions of GSoC mentors it wouldn't loose any >>> money but gain 4.000 USD. >>> >>> Those that misinformed and misguided you needs therefore to apologize to >>> you Luc, to the GSoC mentors and to me as admin! >>> >>> Janko >>> >>> [1] >>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/Yrlj8dIgGPg >>> [2] >>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/WwnxpkXzAB8 >>> [3] >>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/tR44jdPT5Hw >>> >>> >>> Dne 09. 02. 2014 17:26, piÅ¡e Luc Fabresse: >>> > Hi all, >>> > >>> > ------------ >>> > FACTS >>> > >>> > As you all know, I am the ESUG treasurer. >>> > So please find the numbers attached for the ESUG support of GSOC >>> > projects in 2013. >>> > >>> > ESUG sponsored 3 "extra-GSOC" meaning extra slots not accepted by >>> Google. >>> > In the file it is: Alejandro Infante, Pablo Estefo and Benjamin Arezki. >>> > >>> > All in all we paid: >>> > - 3695EUR (~5000USD at that time i.e. same cost as a regular GSOC) each >>> > projects >>> > - Serge trip to Mentor summit >>> > >>> > And we received 5552EUR from Google >>> > >>> > so yes we lost ~6582EUR >>> > That is easy 13*500 USD would only cover 1 plain extra-Gsoc and we >>> > sponsorized 3. >>> > >>> > I also think that it is important to send someone to the GSoc mentor >>> > summit because it participates to the fact that Google recognizes ESUG >>> > ang gives slots the next year. >>> > >>> > It is alos important to note dates. >>> > ESUG paid first and then has been refund by Google. >>> > It would not be possible to do it without ESUG. >>> > >>> > ------------ >>> > FROM HERE, MY POINT OF VIEW ON THIS STORY: >>> > >>> > As some of you know, I doing the ESUG treasury stuff on my *own* time >>> > and it takes a lot! >>> > I am doing it because I strongly believe that Smalltalk (all falvors!) >>> > is a really great language that should be more widespread. >>> > >>> > I also completely open to discussions. >>> > The ESUG board can also explain its actions and even money status. >>> > I can do errors too. >>> > So if Janko wants some details on GSOC related money, JUST ASK! >>> > >>> > I cannot admit that: >>> > >>> > - Janko wrote about some money accusation. This is directly directed >>> > against the treasurer so me. >>> > And honestly, just reading again that I am biased and that I hide or >>> > steal money make me think that I should better quit. >>> > >>> > - Janko asked for apologies! what is that? even if I would have done a >>> > mistake (and ESUG did not loose money), YOU STILL MUST THANK ME for >>> > DOING THIS BORING TASK! and then I can correct mistakes if any >>> > >>> > - People wants an answer fast, this conversation started yesterday and I >>> > am spending my week-end with my kids >>> > >>> > >>> > I am really fed up with this kind of attitude. >>> > Stop accuse, better ask, discuss and we will solve the problems together >>> > if any. >>> > But I think it will never happen... >>> > >>> > #Luc >>> > The disgusted Treasurer of ESUG who will finish his week-end in bad mood >>> > >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Janko MivÅ¡ek >>> Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team >>> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Esug-list mailing list >Esug-list(a)lists.esug.org >http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] [gsoc-mentors] The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude

by phil＠highoctane.be

Janko, >From what I know from good business practices is that what helps in keeping things in order is good financial management and transparency. So, the general ledger should be made accessible so things are clear on that front. For the Google story, upfront payment by ESUG while waiting for Google money should have been registered with postings that reflected that (like with an account on "expected revenue from Google") and balanced against it. If one would spend money beyond the credit limits, there would be an issue. So, escalation should be taking place to decide. There seems to be a board, and the board ultimately decides on that front. Which it apparently did. Whoever is not happy with that decision will at one point accept it as this is the top decision point. Or start a revolution, split, or whatever. There are always things going on behind the curtain. Politics is a fact of life. I you have a personal gripe with some members, you put the dead rat on the table. Now is it time time speak up about who/what/why and discuss that with them. Now, the Smalltalk community appears to be fragmented, and the Pharo|Squeak technology, even if very cool, is currently not helping me much on the revenue making front. My bottom line isn't booking more that EUR 15K on Pharo related sales. Not that I am not pushing. I'd love to be putting decent bread on the table through Pharo. FWIW, when it comes to current trends like Internet of Things, BigData [Hadoop stuff], and Mobile, Smalltalk is at ground zero given the ecosystem. So, fighting internally like that isn't getting us forward while everything is swooshing past. Phil On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 9:29 AM, Janko MivÅ¡ek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si>wrote: > Phil, > > This matter is actually very important for Smalltalk community, because > it exposes nontransparent, meddling behind the scenes, and in some cases > blatantly unethical behavior of some ESUG board members. Which is > certainly bad for our community on long term. > > Such matters need to be clarified and some conclusions to be made for a > community to preserve health and go on. Otherwise you are drowning into > murky waters more and more. > > Best regards > Janko > > Dne 10. 02. 2014 09:12, piÅ¡e phil(a)highoctane.be: > > Guys, > > > > From the outside it just looks like a couple of spoiled kids battling in > > the kindergarten. > > > > All of this is not moving Smalltalk and Pharo any single bit forward. > > Backwards, there is a fair chance. > > > > Now, could you take this discussion elsewhere? Pick up a phone and talk. > > > > Who cares if anyone is right? Oh yeah, EUR 4K, what a huge amount to > > fight over for an European org... (rolleyes). > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 8:29 AM, Luc Fabresse <luc.fabresse(a)gmail.com > > <mailto:luc.fabresse@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > Hi Janko, > > > > I do not have all numbers at hand now but in 2013 there were 4 > > extra-GSOC but we paid only 3 because one student gave > > up (Jean-Baptiste Beuzelin). > > So yes you are probably right that it remains money if we integrate > > last year BUT we were willing to spend it. > > > > Luc > > > > > > 2014-02-09 Janko MivÅ¡ek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si > > <mailto:janko.mivsek@eranova.si>>: > > > > Dear all, > > > > First to Luc: from your numbers it is clear that you are not to > be > > blamed on anything, because you were obviously misinformed and > > misguided. > > > > Facts namely are: > > > > 1. GSoC mentors decided to pay extra stipendiums 3000 USD [1] > while > > ESUG without approval paid 2000 more, 5000 USD, without any > > report > > back to GSoC mentors, > > > > 2. GSoC mentors decided to add past GSoC2012 amount to the pool > for > > paying extra projects [2][3]. > > > > Calculation (without the Summit expenses) therefore is: > > > > Income: GSoC 2012 13x 500 = 6.500 USD > > GSoC 2013 13x 500 = 6.500 USD > > ------------------------------ > > 13.000 USD > > > > Expenses: > > Extra stipendiums: 3x 3.000 = 9.000 USD > > > > Difference: + 4.000 USD > > > > If ESUG would follow the decisions of GSoC mentors it wouldn't > > loose any > > money but gain 4.000 USD. > > > > Those that misinformed and misguided you needs therefore to > > apologize to > > you Luc, to the GSoC mentors and to me as admin! > > > > Janko > > > > [1] > > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/Yrlj8dIgGPg > > [2] > > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/WwnxpkXzAB8 > > [3] > > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/tR44jdPT5Hw > > > > > > Dne 09. 02. 2014 17:26, piÅ¡e Luc Fabresse: > > > Hi all, > > > > > > ------------ > > > FACTS > > > > > > As you all know, I am the ESUG treasurer. > > > So please find the numbers attached for the ESUG support of > GSOC > > > projects in 2013. > > > > > > ESUG sponsored 3 "extra-GSOC" meaning extra slots not accepted > > by Google. > > > In the file it is: Alejandro Infante, Pablo Estefo and > > Benjamin Arezki. > > > > > > All in all we paid: > > > - 3695EUR (~5000USD at that time i.e. same cost as a regular > > GSOC) each > > > projects > > > - Serge trip to Mentor summit > > > > > > And we received 5552EUR from Google > > > > > > so yes we lost ~6582EUR > > > That is easy 13*500 USD would only cover 1 plain extra-Gsoc > and we > > > sponsorized 3. > > > > > > I also think that it is important to send someone to the GSoc > > mentor > > > summit because it participates to the fact that Google > > recognizes ESUG > > > ang gives slots the next year. > > > > > > It is alos important to note dates. > > > ESUG paid first and then has been refund by Google. > > > It would not be possible to do it without ESUG. > > > > > > ------------ > > > FROM HERE, MY POINT OF VIEW ON THIS STORY: > > > > > > As some of you know, I doing the ESUG treasury stuff on my > > *own* time > > > and it takes a lot! > > > I am doing it because I strongly believe that Smalltalk (all > > falvors!) > > > is a really great language that should be more widespread. > > > > > > I also completely open to discussions. > > > The ESUG board can also explain its actions and even money > status. > > > I can do errors too. > > > So if Janko wants some details on GSOC related money, JUST ASK! > > > > > > I cannot admit that: > > > > > > - Janko wrote about some money accusation. This is directly > > directed > > > against the treasurer so me. > > > And honestly, just reading again that I am biased and that I > > hide or > > > steal money make me think that I should better quit. > > > > > > - Janko asked for apologies! what is that? even if I would > > have done a > > > mistake (and ESUG did not loose money), YOU STILL MUST THANK > > ME for > > > DOING THIS BORING TASK! and then I can correct mistakes if any > > > > > > - People wants an answer fast, this conversation started > > yesterday and I > > > am spending my week-end with my kids > > > > > > > > > I am really fed up with this kind of attitude. > > > Stop accuse, better ask, discuss and we will solve the > > problems together > > > if any. > > > But I think it will never happen... > > > > > > #Luc > > > The disgusted Treasurer of ESUG who will finish his week-end > > in bad mood > > > > > > > > > -- > > Janko MivÅ¡ek > > Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team > > > > > > > > -- > Janko MivÅ¡ek > Svetovalec za informatiko > Eranova d.o.o. > Ljubljana, Slovenija > www.eranova.si > tel: 01 514 22 55 > faks: 01 514 22 56 > gsm: 031 674 565 > >

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] Google Summer of Code is here, your ideas please!

by Serge Stinckwich

Like the two previous years, I would like to build a proposal about SciSmalltalk : https://github.com/SergeStinckwich/SciSmalltalk This year, I'm considering proposing something that is related to statistic stuff and/or timeseries analysis We really need something like StatPy : http://www.astro.cornell.edu/staff/loredo/statpy/ Pandas : http://pandas.pydata.org/ or scikits.timeseries: http://pytseries.sourceforge.net/ in the community. Anybody interested me to join me in order to wrote a proposal ? Regards, On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 11:55 AM, Janko MivÅ¡ek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si> wrote: > Dear Smalltalkers, > > Tenth GSoC is here and application deadline is earlier this year, > already next Friday! > > Time therefore for your cool project ideas on this year Smalltalk GSoC > Hurry up! > > For now just express any idea you have here on the mailing list. Later > we will together develop it to be in complete format together with two > mentors needed. To see how fully developed ideas look like please look > at 2012 ones at:http://gsoc2013.esug.org/ideas. > > Ideally (but not necessary right now) you should prepare an idea > following this template: > > ----------------------------------------------- > > Title: > > Level: (beginner, intermediate, advanced) > > Possible mentor: (can be assigned later) > > Possible second mentor: (can be assigned later) > > Description > > Technical Details > > Benefits to the Student > > Benefits to the Community > > ------------------------------------------------- > > Note also that students yourselves can propose a GSoC project. So if you > like to be a student on this year GSoC and have a nice idea, don't be > shy and propose it here! The community will listen you and guide to the > really nicely proposed project. > > For the community, start looking around for students. Think about how to > approach the universities near by you, do you know who to contact > there, etc. > > Our special website is in preparation and will be online in few days. > Official Google GSoC site is here: > > http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/homepage/google/gsoc2014. > > Specially read carefully the FAQ: > http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc20… > > Mentors of all past GSoCs please rejoin the mentors mailing list where > we discuss all details about this year GSoC: > > http://groups.google.com/group/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors > > While students interested on GSoC please join a special Smalltalk GSoC > mailing list for you: > > http://groups.google.com/group/smalltalk-gsoc-students > > Best regards > Janko > > -- > Janko MivÅ¡ek > Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team > -- Serge Stinckwich UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] [gsoc-mentors] The truth on GSOC, ESUG and bad attitude

by Janko MivÅ¡ek

Phil, This matter is actually very important for Smalltalk community, because it exposes nontransparent, meddling behind the scenes, and in some cases blatantly unethical behavior of some ESUG board members. Which is certainly bad for our community on long term. Such matters need to be clarified and some conclusions to be made for a community to preserve health and go on. Otherwise you are drowning into murky waters more and more. Best regards Janko Dne 10. 02. 2014 09:12, piÅ¡e phil(a)highoctane.be: > Guys, > > From the outside it just looks like a couple of spoiled kids battling in > the kindergarten. > > All of this is not moving Smalltalk and Pharo any single bit forward. > Backwards, there is a fair chance. > > Now, could you take this discussion elsewhere? Pick up a phone and talk. > > Who cares if anyone is right? Oh yeah, EUR 4K, what a huge amount to > fight over for an European org... (rolleyes). > > Phil > > > > > On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 8:29 AM, Luc Fabresse <luc.fabresse(a)gmail.com > <mailto:luc.fabresse@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Hi Janko, > > I do not have all numbers at hand now but in 2013 there were 4 > extra-GSOC but we paid only 3 because one student gave > up (Jean-Baptiste Beuzelin). > So yes you are probably right that it remains money if we integrate > last year BUT we were willing to spend it. > > Luc > > > 2014-02-09 Janko MivÅ¡ek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si > <mailto:janko.mivsek@eranova.si>>: > > Dear all, > > First to Luc: from your numbers it is clear that you are not to be > blamed on anything, because you were obviously misinformed and > misguided. > > Facts namely are: > > 1. GSoC mentors decided to pay extra stipendiums 3000 USD [1] while > ESUG without approval paid 2000 more, 5000 USD, without any > report > back to GSoC mentors, > > 2. GSoC mentors decided to add past GSoC2012 amount to the pool for > paying extra projects [2][3]. > > Calculation (without the Summit expenses) therefore is: > > Income: GSoC 2012 13x 500 = 6.500 USD > GSoC 2013 13x 500 = 6.500 USD > ------------------------------ > 13.000 USD > > Expenses: > Extra stipendiums: 3x 3.000 = 9.000 USD > > Difference: + 4.000 USD > > If ESUG would follow the decisions of GSoC mentors it wouldn't > loose any > money but gain 4.000 USD. > > Those that misinformed and misguided you needs therefore to > apologize to > you Luc, to the GSoC mentors and to me as admin! > > Janko > > [1] > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/Yrlj8dIgGPg > [2] > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/WwnxpkXzAB8 > [3] > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors/tR44jdPT5Hw > > > Dne 09. 02. 2014 17:26, piÅ¡e Luc Fabresse: > > Hi all, > > > > ------------ > > FACTS > > > > As you all know, I am the ESUG treasurer. > > So please find the numbers attached for the ESUG support of GSOC > > projects in 2013. > > > > ESUG sponsored 3 "extra-GSOC" meaning extra slots not accepted > by Google. > > In the file it is: Alejandro Infante, Pablo Estefo and > Benjamin Arezki. > > > > All in all we paid: > > - 3695EUR (~5000USD at that time i.e. same cost as a regular > GSOC) each > > projects > > - Serge trip to Mentor summit > > > > And we received 5552EUR from Google > > > > so yes we lost ~6582EUR > > That is easy 13*500 USD would only cover 1 plain extra-Gsoc and we > > sponsorized 3. > > > > I also think that it is important to send someone to the GSoc > mentor > > summit because it participates to the fact that Google > recognizes ESUG > > ang gives slots the next year. > > > > It is alos important to note dates. > > ESUG paid first and then has been refund by Google. > > It would not be possible to do it without ESUG. > > > > ------------ > > FROM HERE, MY POINT OF VIEW ON THIS STORY: > > > > As some of you know, I doing the ESUG treasury stuff on my > *own* time > > and it takes a lot! > > I am doing it because I strongly believe that Smalltalk (all > falvors!) > > is a really great language that should be more widespread. > > > > I also completely open to discussions. > > The ESUG board can also explain its actions and even money status. > > I can do errors too. > > So if Janko wants some details on GSOC related money, JUST ASK! > > > > I cannot admit that: > > > > - Janko wrote about some money accusation. This is directly > directed > > against the treasurer so me. > > And honestly, just reading again that I am biased and that I > hide or > > steal money make me think that I should better quit. > > > > - Janko asked for apologies! what is that? even if I would > have done a > > mistake (and ESUG did not loose money), YOU STILL MUST THANK > ME for > > DOING THIS BORING TASK! and then I can correct mistakes if any > > > > - People wants an answer fast, this conversation started > yesterday and I > > am spending my week-end with my kids > > > > > > I am really fed up with this kind of attitude. > > Stop accuse, better ask, discuss and we will solve the > problems together > > if any. > > But I think it will never happen... > > > > #Luc > > The disgusted Treasurer of ESUG who will finish his week-end > in bad mood > > > > > -- > Janko MivÅ¡ek > Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team > > > -- Janko MivÅ¡ek Svetovalec za informatiko Eranova d.o.o. Ljubljana, Slovenija www.eranova.si tel: 01 514 22 55 faks: 01 514 22 56 gsm: 031 674 565

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Xs&Os game

by phil＠highoctane.be

I loaded the game in Pharo2.0 There is ImageMorph>>form: aForm missing but adding ImageMorph>>form: aForm self image: aFrom makes it work. Phil On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 9:59 PM, ÐÐ°ÑÐºÑÑÐ½ Ð ÑÐ·ÑÐ½ <mrizun(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks for comment. > I'll fix all problems and change everything you mentioned, hope to succeed > in it. > > Mark > > > 2014-02-09 22:51 GMT+02:00 Pharo4Stef <pharo4Stef(a)free.fr>: > >> Hi mark >> >> I read a bit your code >> >> It is nice for a first project!!!! >> >> Here are some feedback. I suggest that you take into account the easy one >> and produce a new version and if you want to >> train your skills you try to see how to address the difficult ones. >> >> Stef >> >> >> >> - Add it in the class comment >> XsAndOsGame new openInWorld. >> >> - you have some unclassified protocols on the class side. >> >> - you may want to run smallLint (criticBorwser on your code and see the >> hints that it can give you). >> >> - When you create a new game do not move the window to the top corner :) >> >> easyBtn -> easyButton (you do not pay per character :)) >> >> findEmptyCellPos -> findEmptyCellPosition >> not in accessing >> >> impBtn -> impossibleButton >> >> â¦. :) >> - Why do you need a separate class just for three colors? >> I would merge >> XsAndOsGameColors and XsAndOsGame >> >> XsAndOsGame>>initialize is long >> May be you should extract some methods from it (methods that you can >> then reuse for other tasks) >> >> >> renderOContents >> | delta offset x1 y1 x2 y2 rect | >> delta := CellRenderer cellExtent - 1. >> offset := self offsetWithinGridForm. >> x1 := offset x + self oCorner x. >> x2 := offset x + delta x - self oCorner x. >> y1 := offset y + self oCorner y. >> y2 := offset y + delta y - self oCorner y. >> rect := Rectangle new setOrigin: x1 @ y1 corner: x2 @ y2. >> self targetForm getCanvas >> fillOval: rect >> color: XsAndOsGameColors gameBoardBackgroundColor >> borderWidth: 3 >> borderColor: XsAndOsGameColors OColor >> >> What do you refer to CellRenderer direcly? self class ? >> >> >> rendererFor: aCell >> "VERY BAD IMPLEMENTATION OF THIS METHOD!!!" >> >> aCell class = EmptyCell >> ifTrue: [ ^ CellRenderer ]. >> aCell class = XCell >> ifTrue: [ ^ XCellRenderer ]. >> aCell class = OCell >> ifTrue: [ ^ OCellRenderer ] >> >> indeed :) >> why not implementing some methods call renderClass and sending a message >> to the object :) >> >> mptyCell>>initialize >> super initialize. >> >> >> >> CellRenderer>>offsetWithinGridForm >> "Returns a point - left top corner of current cell" >> >> ^ CellRenderer cellExtent * ((self cellLocation x - 1) @ (self >> cellLocation y - 1)) >> => self clas cellExtent >> >> CellRenderer >> renderBorderBottom >> | delta offset x1 y1 x2 y2 | >> delta := CellRenderer cellExtent - 1. >> offset := self offsetWithinGridForm. >> x1 := offset x. >> x2 := x1 + delta x. >> y1 := offset y + delta y. >> y2 := y1. >> self targetForm getCanvas >> line: x1 @ y1 >> to: x2 @ y2 >> width: 1 >> color: XsAndOsGameColors cellBorderColor >> >> => >> CellRenderer >> renderBorderBottom >> | delta offset x1 y1 x2 y2 | >> delta := self class cellExtent - 1. >> offset := self offsetWithinGridForm. >> x1 := offset x. >> x2 := x1 + delta x. >> y1 := offset y + delta y. >> y2 := y1. >> self targetForm getCanvas >> line: x1 @ y1 >> to: x2 @ y2 >> width: 1 >> color: XsAndOsGameColors cellBorderColor >> >> >> I was wondering why you need Grid (I would rename it CellGrid) and do not >> use a Matrix. >> >> grid sizeOfGrid >> -> I would rename sizeOfGrid into size like that your grid can be a bit >> more polymorphic from its API point of view >> >> >> makeGameBoarMorph >> -> typo :) >> Now I want wondering why you do not have an instance variable to hold it >> >> >> Future fun ideas for new versions: >> ââââââââââââââââââââââ >> playerVsComputer >> self vsComputer >> ifTrue: [ >> self vsComputer: false. >> self stateMorph contents: 'Player 1 VS Player 2' ] >> ifFalse: [ >> self vsComputer: true. >> self stateMorph contents: 'Player VS Computer ---> Difficulty: ' , self >> difficulty asString ]. >> self vsComputer >> ifTrue: [ >> self easyBtn enable. >> self normalBtn enable. >> self impBtn enable ] >> ifFalse: [ >> self easyBtn disable. >> self normalBtn disable. >> self impBtn disable ] >> This kind of code may be think that may be you need another object that >> represent the >> TwoUsers >> vsComputer >> strategy >> Iâm not sure but clicked look quite long. >> May be you should create another class that can represent the logic of >> the game. >> >> A really interesting exercise would be to see how you can create a >> boardGame for 15*15 and see how it breaks some hidden rules. >> On 08 Feb 2014, at 15:07, ÐÐ°ÑÐºÑÑÐ½ Ð ÑÐ·ÑÐ½ <mrizun(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Updated XsAndOsGame: added AI, also fixed some problems, that Damien >> mentioned in his comments. >> Btw, thanks to Damien, because I learned for myself a lot of new useful >> things. >> Note: The new version is XsAndOsGame (NOT Xs&OsGame) ! >> To play it type in workspace: XsAndOsGame new openInWorld. >> If you want to play vs computer press button "ToggleMode" and choose >> difficulty. Initially it is easy. >> >> Mark >> >> >> 2014-02-05 15:57 GMT+02:00 ÐÐ°ÑÐºÑÑÐ½ Ð ÑÐ·ÑÐ½ <mrizun(a)gmail.com>: >> >>> Thanks, I'll certainly take a look at it >>> >>> >>> 2014-02-05 Damien Cassou <damien.cassou(a)gmail.com>: >>> >>> On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 8:58 PM, ÐÐ°ÑÐºÑÑÐ½ Ð ÑÐ·ÑÐ½ <mrizun(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> > I should think how to write this tutorial. >>>> >>>> >>>> on the technical point of view, I advise you to use Pillar: >>>> http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pier/Pillar >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Damien Cassou >>>> http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st >>>> >>>> "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another without >>>> losing enthusiasm." >>>> Winston Churchill >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >

Feb. 10, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Google Summer of Code is here, your ideas please!

by Goubier Thierry

Le 09/02/2014 15:42, Joachim Tuchel a Ã©crit : > Hi, > > so that's not exactly what i had in mind. In a portable git interface for Smalltalk code, menticello would be an optional plugin (just like store, envy, sts or whatever), but it would be self contained with a clever api to implant it into a dialect. Let's call it "git native" with plugs for dialects... Looks like FileSystem-Git to me :) http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~FileSystemGitDev/FileSystem-Git I'm effectively at the other end: making a plugin for Monticello to talk to git. Like the hg equivalent I'v seen announced for ST/X, it shows possible usage patterns of git (and hence be a requirements for your interface). Thierry -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95

Feb. 10, 2014