November 2014 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] How not to serve an AngularJs application from Pharo

by kilon alios

Stef I did not meant it as offence, of course you do great amount of work for documentation. But I cannot ignore the fact that PBE is still stuck to 1.4, that there is no documentation for Pharo Morphic and most libraries if not all are partly documented."lacks documentation" does not mean that there is no documentation. I meant exactly what I typed. Stef you guys do an amazing job and I am proud to be a member of the Pharo community and make my own small contributions to make Pharo more popular and better. On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 2:27 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > > On 4/11/14 13:53, kilon alios wrote: > > I have welcomed Amber with open arms, but I have failed miserably to wrap > my head around it. > > Is ironic if you think about, Pharo really lacks documentation even in > basic areas, > > Are you joking? I spend my time writing books and chapters and their > quality is quite good. > > libraries are nowhere near as powerful as those offered by javascript > yet I have found Pharo way easier to use. Web development looks to me like > a big pile of unnecessary mess. Actually Amber is the best part of it :D > > So the problem for me is not so much the System Browser , but the steep > learning curve . Or maybe its just the fact that I dont like many of the > web frameworkds, including html / js / css etc. > > I wish I could make something in pharo and click a button to deploy it > as a website but alas thats just a dream. > > > I would like to have a solution for that without having a smalltalk > compiler in JS as amber is doing. > > I think however that for the amount of developers Amber has been making > some amazing progress. > > > > On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 4:55 AM, Pierce Ng <pierce(a)samadhiweb.com> wrote: > >> On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 10:21:18PM +0200, kilon alios wrote: >> > Even though I always have been a supporter of Amber the IDE has still a >> > very long way to go. >> >> I've been meaning to build a code browser for Amber (and GST) in Pharo >> with >> Omnibrowser using the Shampoo protocol[1], once I get some copious spare >> time. >> >> [1] http://dmitrymatveev.co.uk/shampoo >> >> Pierce >> >> > >

Nov. 7, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] How not to serve an AngularJs application from Pharo

by stepharo

On 4/11/14 13:53, kilon alios wrote: > I have welcomed Amber with open arms, but I have failed miserably to > wrap my head around it. > > Is ironic if you think about, Pharo really lacks documentation even in > basic areas, Are you joking? I spend my time writing books and chapters and their quality is quite good. > libraries are nowhere near as powerful as those offered by javascript > yet I have found Pharo way easier to use. Web development looks to me > like a big pile of unnecessary mess. Actually Amber is the best part > of it :D > > So the problem for me is not so much the System Browser , but the > steep learning curve . Or maybe its just the fact that I dont like > many of the web frameworkds, including html / js / css etc. > > I wish I could make something in pharo and click a button to deploy it > as a website but alas thats just a dream. I would like to have a solution for that without having a smalltalk compiler in JS as amber is doing. > I think however that for the amount of developers Amber has been > making some amazing progress. > > > > On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 4:55 AM, Pierce Ng <pierce(a)samadhiweb.com > <mailto:pierce@samadhiweb.com>> wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 10:21:18PM +0200, kilon alios wrote: > > Even though I always have been a supporter of Amber the IDE has > still a > > very long way to go. > > I've been meaning to build a code browser for Amber (and GST) in > Pharo with > Omnibrowser using the Shampoo protocol[1], once I get some copious > spare time. > > [1] http://dmitrymatveev.co.uk/shampoo > > Pierce > >

Nov. 7, 2014

What template libraries are available?

by Friedrich Dominicus

For Pharo ? I know of Mustache, any other contender? Regards Friedrich

Nov. 7, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Bug? in Filein

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 07 Nov 2014, at 08:36, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > Great. > > This platform is a joy to work with and becomes better all the time. > > 2015 will be a great Pharo4 year :-) > > Phil +10 > On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 7:47 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >> On 06 Nov 2014, at 21:59, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: >> >> Yes, this has been annoying for a long time. >> >> Does backport means that it will be in the downloadable image of 3.0? >> >> Thanks a lot! >> >> > > Yes! It is already noted as âfix to includeâ, I will do an update for Pharo3 today. > > Marcus > >

Nov. 7, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Bug? in Filein

by phil＠highoctane.be

Great. This platform is a joy to work with and becomes better all the time. 2015 will be a great Pharo4 year :-) Phil On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 7:47 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On 06 Nov 2014, at 21:59, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > Yes, this has been annoying for a long time. > > Does backport means that it will be in the downloadable image of 3.0? > > Thanks a lot! > > > Yes! It is already noted as âfix to includeâ, I will do an update for > Pharo3 today. > > Marcus > >

Nov. 7, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Bug? in Filein

by Marcus Denker

> On 06 Nov 2014, at 21:59, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > Yes, this has been annoying for a long time. > > Does backport means that it will be in the downloadable image of 3.0? > > Thanks a lot! > > Yes! It is already noted as âfix to includeâ, I will do an update for Pharo3 today. Marcus

Nov. 7, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] FileBrowser confusion

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

> > Ok. Could you please open a bug report on that for the inspector? Since as Nicolai pointed out there is this "14250 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?14250> Enable large file support on linux", there is probably no point in creating an extra one. I built custom VM with _FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 and it seems to hold, so thank you. No problem. Here you go: > GLMTabulator new with: [ :tabulator | > tabulator column: #favorites; column: #files span: 5. > tabulator transmit to: #favorites; andShow: [ :a | > a list > title: 'Favorites'; > display: { 'test' asFileReference . 'tmp' asFileReference }; > format: #fullName ]. > tabulator transmit from: #favorites; to: #files; andShow: [ :a | > a custom: (GLMPager new with: [ :pager | > pager show: [ :composite :file | > composite title: file basename. > file gtInspectorItemsIn: composite. > file gtInspectorContentsIn: composite ] ]) ] ]; > openOn: FileSystem disk workingDirectory This is really cool! I will have to study this tomorrow. UITheme builder fileOpen: 'Import model from MSE file' extensions: #('mse'). I am aware of this one, but it has all the issues mentioned in the first (and following) posts, since it is basically same as FileBrowser. That is why I was looking for an alternative. They would just need to be hooked in the right place instead of the funny > text field. Why? From what I understood the way to build what I want would be a combination of GLM* browsers you mentioned above and in such configuration I do not see why would I need to hook up the default browsers. Thanks, Peter On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 12:04 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: > 2014-11-06 23:25 GMT+01:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > >> Hi, >> >> >> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 10:50 PM, Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> > It is indeed known that Pharo cannot open files larger than 4GB (even >>> that after you setup the VM specifically). >>> It seems like Pharo bug >>> >>> 1. FileReference>>gtInspectorItemsIn: composite >>> ... >>> column: 'Size' evaluated: [:each | each humanReadableSize] width: 100; >>> ... >>> >>> 2. FileReference>>humanReadableSize >>> ^ self size humanReadableSIByteSize >>> >>> 3. MessageNotUnderstood: False>>humanReadableSIByteSize >>> because "self size" returns false for files > 4GB so it fails and thus I >>> cannot navigate to folders with such files (for example my home directory). >>> >> >> Ok. Could you please open a bug report on that for the inspector? >> >> > > This is an issue for the linux vm : > "14250 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?14250> Enable large file > support on linux" > > on windows, you can list directories with files > 2G > > FileSystemStore returns false on #size, if the file can not be found. > Thats the reason why the inspector shows the "MessageNotUnderstood: > False>>humanReadableSIByteSize" error. > And the files can not be found, because the unix VM uses lstat on the > directory entries to retrieve the file attributes. And lstat does not work > for files with sizes larger than 32Bit. > > > > >

Nov. 7, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] FileBrowser confusion

by Nicolai Hess

2014-11-06 23:25 GMT+01:00 Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com>: > Hi, > > > On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 10:50 PM, Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> > It is indeed known that Pharo cannot open files larger than 4GB (even >> that after you setup the VM specifically). >> It seems like Pharo bug >> >> 1. FileReference>>gtInspectorItemsIn: composite >> ... >> column: 'Size' evaluated: [:each | each humanReadableSize] width: 100; >> ... >> >> 2. FileReference>>humanReadableSize >> ^ self size humanReadableSIByteSize >> >> 3. MessageNotUnderstood: False>>humanReadableSIByteSize >> because "self size" returns false for files > 4GB so it fails and thus I >> cannot navigate to folders with such files (for example my home directory). >> > > Ok. Could you please open a bug report on that for the inspector? > > This is an issue for the linux vm : "14250 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?14250> Enable large file support on linux" on windows, you can list directories with files > 2G FileSystemStore returns false on #size, if the file can not be found. Thats the reason why the inspector shows the "MessageNotUnderstood: False>>humanReadableSIByteSize" error. And the files can not be found, because the unix VM uses lstat on the directory entries to retrieve the file attributes. And lstat does not work for files with sizes larger than 32Bit.

Nov. 6, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] FileBrowser confusion

by Tudor Girba

Hi, On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 10:50 PM, Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > It is indeed known that Pharo cannot open files larger than 4GB (even > that after you setup the VM specifically). > It seems like Pharo bug > > 1. FileReference>>gtInspectorItemsIn: composite > ... > column: 'Size' evaluated: [:each | each humanReadableSize] width: 100; > ... > > 2. FileReference>>humanReadableSize > ^ self size humanReadableSIByteSize > > 3. MessageNotUnderstood: False>>humanReadableSIByteSize > because "self size" returns false for files > 4GB so it fails and thus I > cannot navigate to folders with such files (for example my home directory). > Ok. Could you please open a bug report on that for the inspector? > > > http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/creating-custom-browsers-out-of-inspe… > Thank you that looks interesting, however I would still have to add > somehow "favorite folders" > No problem. Here you go: GLMTabulator new with: [ :tabulator | tabulator column: #favorites; column: #files span: 5. tabulator transmit to: #favorites; andShow: [ :a | a list title: 'Favorites'; display: { 'test' asFileReference . 'tmp' asFileReference }; format: #fullName ]. tabulator transmit from: #favorites; to: #files; andShow: [ :a | a custom: (GLMPager new with: [ :pager | pager show: [ :composite :file | composite title: file basename. file gtInspectorItemsIn: composite. file gtInspectorContentsIn: composite ] ]) ] ]; openOn: FileSystem disk workingDirectory > Let's start from use cases. What do you need to achieve? > For example I want to export a picture from Roassal and want to save it > somewhere. So I would expect a reasonable file save dialog to open so I can > choose a place to store it in and not a bare text input. > The same would go for opening... I want to open some file so I would open > file dialog, click on a favorite folder then the file and done... not crawl > hundred places. > > I mean this is nothing unusual, every > https://help.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/3.2/figures/file-save-dialog.png.… > operating https://msdn.microsoft.com/dynimg/IC394766.png system > http://www.productivityorchard.com/wp-content/uploads/File-Save-Dialog.png > can do it and it is very handy. > Both of these facilities exist (except for the favorites part): UITheme builder fileOpen: 'Import model from MSE file' extensions: #('mse'). UITheme builder fileSave: 'Your title here' extensions: #('mse') path: nil. They would just need to be hooked in the right place instead of the funny text field. Cheers, Doru Peter > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 10:09 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> >> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 7:49 PM, Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I checked out the file browser GT Inspector (I hope that is what you >>> were referring to), unfortunately it's crashing a lot for me (it seems it >>> can't figure out file size for large files (~4GB) and some other stuff >>> (sockets?)). >>> >> >> What do you mean by a lot? Could you detail the crashing scenarios? >> It is indeed known that Pharo cannot open files larger than 4GB (even >> that after you setup the VM specifically). >> >> >>> However I don't know if Glamour is planning to turn it into full file >>> browser or just keep for quick inspection (especially considering that most >>> people apparently don't really need such thing). >>> >> >> Glamour is not the same as GT. Glamour is an engine for building >> browsers. GT is the IDE that is built on top of Glamour. The interesting >> thing with Glamour is that it allows you to build your own browser >> succinctly. Take a look here: >> >> http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/creating-custom-browsers-out-of-inspe… >> >> >>> At least to me it seems that right now enhancing the FileBrowser would >>> be simpler. >>> >> But thank you for the responses, I'll try to play with it a bit and >>> perhaps something good will come out of it. >>> >> >> >> Let's start from use cases. What do you need to achieve? >> >> Cheers, >> Doru >> >> >> >>> Peter >>> >>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 4:41 PM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 3:55 PM, Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Is anyone actually using FileBrowser? Because either no one does or I >>>>> doing something wrong. >>>>> >>>>> My problem is that it is very uncomfortable to navigate filesystem. >>>>> There is no way to quickly navigate to common folders (like roots of system >>>>> drives and home directory). Also hidden files/folders are shown by default >>>>> which means there is always hundred folders. >>>>> I would love to have these things streamlined, ideally with the option >>>>> to add custom shortcuts (see picture)... so much for opening files. >>>>> >>>>> As far as saving goes the only way I found to actually save file is to >>>>> manually type the full path without the option to choose a folder through >>>>> GUI. But since this is the way the "Save image as..." works it leads me to >>>>> believe that no one is actually using it regularly, because outside of >>>>> saving a file to same folder as image such behavior seems useless. >>>>> >>>>> So is this something that has been considered or no one really needs >>>>> this? >>>>> >>>> >>>> I do use the FileBrowser but it is indeed in need of serious love. But >>>> on Linux, I am on Midnight Commander, and there is nothing to the beat it. >>>> >>>> Most of the time, I use the FileBrowser to deal with my project files >>>> which are in the image directory or subfolders. >>>> But there are quite a number of hooks (for files and directories) in >>>> the tool so one can extend it in a couple hours. >>>> >>>> It is worth a try. >>>> >>>> Phil >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Peter >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> >> "Every thing has its own flow" >> > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Nov. 6, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] FileBrowser confusion

by Peter UhnÃ¡k

The large file seems to return false on most things (also creationTime)... so this would need some tinkering. Also I am confused as to why this happens. Failing actual opening of the file would be understandable but these (size, creationTime) are just some inode data, but I could be (and probably am) wrong. On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 10:58 PM, Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > What do you mean by a lot? > another problem I had was with privileges ... it shows folder of a root > but when I click it it throws DirectoryDoesNotExist and not > PermissionDenied (or something); but this is negligible issue - i clicked > on the folder randomly to try the Inspector. > > Also as mentioned above it shows hidden folders. Hidden folders are hidden > for a reason so I would expect navigator to respect it. > And last (for now) is sorting names. By default it doesn't sort and if i > sort by name it mixes files and folders. > > But there is really no point in iterating these issues... all I want to > have is regular FileOpen/FileClose dialog. > > > On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 10:50 PM, Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> > It is indeed known that Pharo cannot open files larger than 4GB (even >> that after you setup the VM specifically). >> It seems like Pharo bug >> >> 1. FileReference>>gtInspectorItemsIn: composite >> ... >> column: 'Size' evaluated: [:each | each humanReadableSize] width: 100; >> ... >> >> 2. FileReference>>humanReadableSize >> ^ self size humanReadableSIByteSize >> >> 3. MessageNotUnderstood: False>>humanReadableSIByteSize >> because "self size" returns false for files > 4GB so it fails and thus I >> cannot navigate to folders with such files (for example my home directory). >> >> > >> http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/creating-custom-browsers-out-of-inspe… >> Thank you that looks interesting, however I would still have to add >> somehow "favorite folders" >> >> > Let's start from use cases. What do you need to achieve? >> For example I want to export a picture from Roassal and want to save it >> somewhere. So I would expect a reasonable file save dialog to open so I can >> choose a place to store it in and not a bare text input. >> >> The same would go for opening... I want to open some file so I would open >> file dialog, click on a favorite folder then the file and done... not crawl >> hundred places. >> >> I mean this is nothing unusual, every >> https://help.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/3.2/figures/file-save-dialog.png.… >> operating https://msdn.microsoft.com/dynimg/IC394766.png system >> http://www.productivityorchard.com/wp-content/uploads/File-Save-Dialog.png >> can do it and it is very handy. >> >> Peter >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 10:09 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 7:49 PM, Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I checked out the file browser GT Inspector (I hope that is what you >>>> were referring to), unfortunately it's crashing a lot for me (it seems it >>>> can't figure out file size for large files (~4GB) and some other stuff >>>> (sockets?)). >>>> >>> >>> What do you mean by a lot? Could you detail the crashing scenarios? >>> It is indeed known that Pharo cannot open files larger than 4GB (even >>> that after you setup the VM specifically). >>> >>> >>>> However I don't know if Glamour is planning to turn it into full file >>>> browser or just keep for quick inspection (especially considering that most >>>> people apparently don't really need such thing). >>>> >>> >>> Glamour is not the same as GT. Glamour is an engine for building >>> browsers. GT is the IDE that is built on top of Glamour. The interesting >>> thing with Glamour is that it allows you to build your own browser >>> succinctly. Take a look here: >>> >>> http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/creating-custom-browsers-out-of-inspe… >>> >>> >>>> At least to me it seems that right now enhancing the FileBrowser would >>>> be simpler. >>>> >>> But thank you for the responses, I'll try to play with it a bit and >>>> perhaps something good will come out of it. >>>> >>> >>> >>> Let's start from use cases. What do you need to achieve? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> >>> >>>> Peter >>>> >>>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 4:41 PM, phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 3:55 PM, Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Is anyone actually using FileBrowser? Because either no one does or I >>>>>> doing something wrong. >>>>>> >>>>>> My problem is that it is very uncomfortable to navigate filesystem. >>>>>> There is no way to quickly navigate to common folders (like roots of system >>>>>> drives and home directory). Also hidden files/folders are shown by default >>>>>> which means there is always hundred folders. >>>>>> I would love to have these things streamlined, ideally with the >>>>>> option to add custom shortcuts (see picture)... so much for opening files. >>>>>> >>>>>> As far as saving goes the only way I found to actually save file is >>>>>> to manually type the full path without the option to choose a folder >>>>>> through GUI. But since this is the way the "Save image as..." works it >>>>>> leads me to believe that no one is actually using it regularly, because >>>>>> outside of saving a file to same folder as image such behavior seems >>>>>> useless. >>>>>> >>>>>> So is this something that has been considered or no one really needs >>>>>> this? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I do use the FileBrowser but it is indeed in need of serious love. But >>>>> on Linux, I am on Midnight Commander, and there is nothing to the beat it. >>>>> >>>>> Most of the time, I use the FileBrowser to deal with my project files >>>>> which are in the image directory or subfolders. >>>>> But there are quite a number of hooks (for files and directories) in >>>>> the tool so one can extend it in a couple hours. >>>>> >>>>> It is worth a try. >>>>> >>>>> Phil >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Peter >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> >>> "Every thing has its own flow" >>> >> >> >

Nov. 6, 2014