August 2013 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] The Pharo Advantage: what is it for you?

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 21 Aug 2013, at 11:52, btc(a)openinworld.com wrote: > Yesterday I came across this very nice Pharo tutorial [1] by Damien & Camille. Some slides I think that relate are: > * 47-49 syntax comparisons to another typical language > * 72-75 easy web interaction > * 80 serializing continuations / exception context (this is massively impressive!) > * 81 powerful breakpoints > > [1] http://www.slideshare.net/pharoproject/pharo-tutorial-at-ecooptutorial Ah, I did not yet see this, but it _is_ a very nice presentation ! Sven

Aug. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] The Pharo Advantage: what is it for you?

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> Hello, > > As part of the defense of a budget and technology choices, what would you guys list as a key advantage of using Pharo for creating software solutions? - Pool of accessible experts - Pool of other software solution developers - Full stack access, no need to wait for another release to address a problem. - Growth of the community - Consortium - I saw in one bank using Pharo (not public unfortunately) putting stability of the language > My current stack is: > > Pharo 2.0 > Seaside 3 (including Seaside-REST) > Magritte 3 > Twitter Bootstrap > > + a couple of data storage stuff (DBXTalk, Phriak, Voyage) > + STOMP > > + Amber if needed > > I've been test driving the whole stack for a while and even if there are some quirks, it looks like good enough for what I want to achieve. > > Now, my question: what is the Pharo advantage you would put forward vs other choices (like LAMP, Java, Rails etc). > > I am aware of what those could be but I am more looking for what makes you tick when using the technology (like: "it is fun to work with", "no more Java for me, due to ...", "speeds dev time by ...", "not NSA-backdoor-enabled") > > This is the kind of thing we should have in stock for helping the Consortium members get buy in from people giving a yes on budgets. > > Thanks in advance for your help! (BTW, I am going to use this on monday morning for defending our position on a significant project). > > Phil

Aug. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] The Pharo Advantage: what is it for you?

by Denis Kudriashov

Live programming is main advantage to me 2013/8/23 phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be> > Hello, > > As part of the defense of a budget and technology choices, what would you > guys list as a key advantage of using Pharo for creating software solutions? > > My current stack is: > > Pharo 2.0 > Seaside 3 (including Seaside-REST) > Magritte 3 > Twitter Bootstrap > > + a couple of data storage stuff (DBXTalk, Phriak, Voyage) > + STOMP > > + Amber if needed > > I've been test driving the whole stack for a while and even if there are > some quirks, it looks like good enough for what I want to achieve. > > Now, my question: what is the Pharo advantage you would put forward vs > other choices (like LAMP, Java, Rails etc). > > I am aware of what those could be but I am more looking for what makes you > tick when using the technology (like: "it is fun to work with", "no more > Java for me, due to ...", "speeds dev time by ...", "not > NSA-backdoor-enabled") > > This is the kind of thing we should have in stock for helping the > Consortium members get buy in from people giving a yes on budgets. > > Thanks in advance for your help! (BTW, I am going to use this on monday > morning for defending our position on a significant project). > > Phil >

Aug. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] The Pharo Advantage: what is it for you?

by Pavel Krivanek

You can modify or fix any part of the system including basic "libraries" very easily and thanks to relativelly small, friendly and open community you can have as a single person greater influence on future Pharo development than in any other mentioned environment. Safer investition :-) -- Pavel 2013/8/23 phil(a)highoctane.be <phil(a)highoctane.be>: > Hello, > > As part of the defense of a budget and technology choices, what would you > guys list as a key advantage of using Pharo for creating software solutions? > > My current stack is: > > Pharo 2.0 > Seaside 3 (including Seaside-REST) > Magritte 3 > Twitter Bootstrap > > + a couple of data storage stuff (DBXTalk, Phriak, Voyage) > + STOMP > > + Amber if needed > > I've been test driving the whole stack for a while and even if there are > some quirks, it looks like good enough for what I want to achieve. > > Now, my question: what is the Pharo advantage you would put forward vs other > choices (like LAMP, Java, Rails etc). > > I am aware of what those could be but I am more looking for what makes you > tick when using the technology (like: "it is fun to work with", "no more > Java for me, due to ...", "speeds dev time by ...", "not > NSA-backdoor-enabled") > > This is the kind of thing we should have in stock for helping the Consortium > members get buy in from people giving a yes on budgets. > > Thanks in advance for your help! (BTW, I am going to use this on monday > morning for defending our position on a significant project). > > Phil

Aug. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] The Pharo Advantage: what is it for you?

by Stephan Eggermont

I'd add as a development environment to the stack: MOOSE Creating visibility in what you're building http://vimeo.com/63320261 Stephan

Aug. 23, 2013

The Pharo Advantage: what is it for you?

by phil＠highoctane.be

Hello, As part of the defense of a budget and technology choices, what would you guys list as a key advantage of using Pharo for creating software solutions? My current stack is: Pharo 2.0 Seaside 3 (including Seaside-REST) Magritte 3 Twitter Bootstrap + a couple of data storage stuff (DBXTalk, Phriak, Voyage) + STOMP + Amber if needed I've been test driving the whole stack for a while and even if there are some quirks, it looks like good enough for what I want to achieve. Now, my question: what is the Pharo advantage you would put forward vs other choices (like LAMP, Java, Rails etc). I am aware of what those could be but I am more looking for what makes you tick when using the technology (like: "it is fun to work with", "no more Java for me, due to ...", "speeds dev time by ...", "not NSA-backdoor-enabled") This is the kind of thing we should have in stock for helping the Consortium members get buy in from people giving a yes on budgets. Thanks in advance for your help! (BTW, I am going to use this on monday morning for defending our position on a significant project). Phil

Aug. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Trait composition on runtime

by Norbert Hartl

Am 23.08.2013 um 09:34 schrieb StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >> >>> Hi Norbert, >>> >>> It sounds like you want something like talents Talents http://scg.unibe.ch/research/bifrost/talents. >>> However, there is no running version on pharo 3.0 yet. >>> >>> I am not aware of work on object-specific traits, I could be wrong though. >>> >> you might be right. The way talents work is basically what I am asking for. I never got into depth with talents and thought it is much more than adjustment of behavior on per object base. I was hoping there are some easy things available to use in order to modify behavior lookup. I should have a look at talents. Thanks for the tip. > > would strategy not solve your problem? > Sure if I would have an actual problem I would use strategy to mitigate the problem. With strategy you can extend the single dimensionality of single inheritance but you cannot acquire new behavior. Or better it is even more cumbersome if you use it to make it acquire new things. Or different said: If there is something like a design pattern that is used really often it could be a good idea if the language would support this out of the box, right? Somewhere in between is the reason why I was asking :) Norbert

Aug. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Trait composition on runtime

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

IDE is support key as Johan mentioned. Then the question is what is the correct granularity that will suit future users of a trait. Stef

Aug. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Trait composition on runtime

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> >> Hi Norbert, >> >> It sounds like you want something like talents Talents http://scg.unibe.ch/research/bifrost/talents. >> However, there is no running version on pharo 3.0 yet. >> >> I am not aware of work on object-specific traits, I could be wrong though. >> > you might be right. The way talents work is basically what I am asking for. I never got into depth with talents and thought it is much more than adjustment of behavior on per object base. I was hoping there are some easy things available to use in order to modify behavior lookup. I should have a look at talents. Thanks for the tip. would strategy not solve your problem? Stef

Aug. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Rw engine and Patterns for searching

by Camille Teruel

On 23 aoÃ»t 2013, at 05:16, Gisela Decuzzi wrote: > Hi Camille! > Thanks for the details about using the dot. > I know that for this case is better matching an expression but it sounded strange at the begining the behavior inside the block despite of the ``@ As far as I understand, there is no difference between ` and `` when you try to match a method because there is no such thing as a submethod. No matter where you recurse in a method, you'll never find another method that can potentially match. > I will take a look in the matching. Good luck. Stef suggested to see in visualworks if there is a new version. > Because like that we cannot say that we don't care if we have that piece of code and we should repeat the pattern with an or containing the block and without it. What you can do is still to try matching an expression but with an additional condition. By the way I forgot to mention the `{ :node | "some smalltalk code here" } syntax in my last mail: it permits to match only the nodes that satisfy the "wrapped block". > But I don't understand if the actual behavior is really a bug or it's a feature... Its more a limitation. > > > 2013/8/21 Camille Teruel <camille.teruel(a)gmail.com> > Hello Gisela, > > On 21 aoÃ»t 2013, at 15:43, Gisela Decuzzi wrote: > >> Hello, I'm trying to understand how to define a correct pattern and I'm lost with the cases where I use a method pattern and the desired code is inside a block. >> In the case where we search (methods) with metavariables and the code is inside a block. >> >> An Example: >> >> This pattern >> `a: `aa `b: `bb >> | `@temps | >> ``@.Stats. >> ``@.some size ``@.more. >> ``@.Stats2. > > Putting a dot after the @ means that you want to match statements. > So '``@.some size' cannot match: 'arg1 size'. > >> Does not match with: >> insideABlock: arg1 part2: arg2 >> |temp1 temp3| >> [arg1 size]. >> temp1 := arg2 + 3. >> ^arg2 > > Then even if you remove the extra dots, the rule won't match the method you give. > This is because this method has no statements matching '``@some size' (even if it has a block that has a statement that can). > So here is a rule that can match your method: > `a: `aa `b: `bb > | `@temps | > `@.stms1. > [ `@rcv size ]. > `@.stms2. > > >> After looking while I realize that is not matching with >> part1: arg1 part2: arg2 >> |temp1 temp2 temp3| >> arg1 size. >> temp1 := arg2 + 3. >> ^arg2 > > This one however can be matched by your rule (without the extra dots). > I think that you should try to parse expressions instead of full methods (RBParseTreeSearcher>>#matches:do: instead of RBParseTreeSearcher>>#matchesMethod:do:). > You could just try to match '`@rcv size': it would succeed in both methods. > >> >> Until I understand: >> ``@.some size ``@.more. >> This should mean: anything that sends the message size, doesn't matter if we have something before or after, I think that this expression should match both cases. >> >> But maybe I'm missunderstanding the patterns (again). > > It should work like that (modulo bugs) > ` denotes a metavariable > adding @ means you're looking for a list of elements > ex: `receiver `@msg: `@arg matches every message > adding a . means you're looking for a statement (or a list of statement if you combine it with @) > adding # means you're looking for a literal > adding another ` means that the pattern will be searched recursively in each subexpressions even if the top one already matched > it sometimes leads to infinite loops, but I don't remember exactly when > ex: in 'foo bar bar' : > if you search for '`rcv bar' you'll find one match ('foo bar bar') > if you search for '``rcv bar' you'll find two matches ('foo bar' and 'foo bar bar'). > and I think it's all > >> >> Any help with this will be really welcome! >> >> > >

Aug. 23, 2013