August 2013 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] The Pharo Advantage: what is it for you?

by phil＠highoctane.be

Thanks everybody for the feedback. I am working on some presentation material based on the feedback. Phil On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Bahman Movaqar <Bahman(a)bahmanm.com> wrote: > On 08/23/2013 13:02, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > > Hello, > > > > As part of the defense of a budget and technology choices, what would > > you guys list as a key advantage of using Pharo for creating software > > solutions? > > > > My current stack is: > > > > Pharo 2.0 > > Seaside 3 (including Seaside-REST) > > Magritte 3 > > Twitter Bootstrap > > > > + a couple of data storage stuff (DBXTalk, Phriak, Voyage) > > + STOMP > > > > + Amber if needed > > > > I've been test driving the whole stack for a while and even if there > > are some quirks, it looks like good enough for what I want to achieve. > > > > Now, my question: what is the Pharo advantage you would put forward vs > > other choices (like LAMP, Java, Rails etc). > > > > I am aware of what those could be but I am more looking for what makes > > you tick when using the technology (like: "it is fun to work with", > > "no more Java for me, due to ...", "speeds dev time by ...", "not > > NSA-backdoor-enabled") > > > > This is the kind of thing we should have in stock for helping the > > Consortium members get buy in from people giving a yes on budgets. > > > > Thanks in advance for your help! (BTW, I am going to use this on > > monday morning for defending our position on a significant project). > > > > > That's basically what I've been doing in the past 5-6 years ago: > evaluating different platforms, technology combos, libraries, and many a > times I do that for a living --so believe me, I'm good at it :-) > I wrote something about Pharo a few months ago which might help you: > http://www.bahmanm.com/blogs/a-new-platform-for-business-app-development > > -- > Bahman Movaqar (http://BahmanM.com) > > ERP Evaluation, Implementation & Deployment Consultant > PGP Key ID: 0x6AB5BD68 (keyserver2.pgp.com) > > >

Aug. 24, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] The Pharo Advantage: what is it for you?

by Bahman Movaqar

On 08/23/2013 13:02, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > Hello, > > As part of the defense of a budget and technology choices, what would > you guys list as a key advantage of using Pharo for creating software > solutions? > > My current stack is: > > Pharo 2.0 > Seaside 3 (including Seaside-REST) > Magritte 3 > Twitter Bootstrap > > + a couple of data storage stuff (DBXTalk, Phriak, Voyage) > + STOMP > > + Amber if needed > > I've been test driving the whole stack for a while and even if there > are some quirks, it looks like good enough for what I want to achieve. > > Now, my question: what is the Pharo advantage you would put forward vs > other choices (like LAMP, Java, Rails etc). > > I am aware of what those could be but I am more looking for what makes > you tick when using the technology (like: "it is fun to work with", > "no more Java for me, due to ...", "speeds dev time by ...", "not > NSA-backdoor-enabled") > > This is the kind of thing we should have in stock for helping the > Consortium members get buy in from people giving a yes on budgets. > > Thanks in advance for your help! (BTW, I am going to use this on > monday morning for defending our position on a significant project). > > That's basically what I've been doing in the past 5-6 years ago: evaluating different platforms, technology combos, libraries, and many a times I do that for a living --so believe me, I'm good at it :-) I wrote something about Pharo a few months ago which might help you: http://www.bahmanm.com/blogs/a-new-platform-for-business-app-development -- Bahman Movaqar (http://BahmanM.com) ERP Evaluation, Implementation & Deployment Consultant PGP Key ID: 0x6AB5BD68 (keyserver2.pgp.com)

Aug. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Trait composition on runtime

by Johan Fabry

On Aug 23, 2013, at 9:54 AM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: >> Metaprogramming is your friend :-P >> >> Actually this is only half jokingly â¦ one of the ideas of metaprogramming is that the programmer can mold the semantics of the language to his/her liking depending on the task at hand. This (amongst others) is why we can do so many cool things in Smalltalk. For example, when you have a more concrete case of what you are looking for you can build something with method wrappers, or override DNU :-) to do your thing â¦ >> > Sure. I think I deserve it. That's what you get if you ask questions about half baked thoughts :) > > thanks, No problem, I knew you would be able to handle my annoying response :-) And the half-baked thoughts can turn out to be the most fun ones to consider :-) ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Aug. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Trait composition on runtime

by Norbert Hartl

Am 23.08.2013 um 15:44 schrieb Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl>: > > On Aug 23, 2013, at 3:48 AM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > >>> would strategy not solve your problem? >>> >> Sure if I would have an actual problem I would use strategy to mitigate the problem. With strategy you can extend the single dimensionality of single inheritance but you cannot acquire new behavior. Or better it is even more cumbersome if you use it to make it acquire new things. >> Or different said: If there is something like a design pattern that is used really often it could be a good idea if the language would support this out of the box, right? Somewhere in between is the reason why I was asking :) > > Metaprogramming is your friend :-P > > Actually this is only half jokingly â¦ one of the ideas of metaprogramming is that the programmer can mold the semantics of the language to his/her liking depending on the task at hand. This (amongst others) is why we can do so many cool things in Smalltalk. For example, when you have a more concrete case of what you are looking for you can build something with method wrappers, or override DNU :-) to do your thing â¦ > Sure. I think I deserve it. That's what you get if you ask questions about half baked thoughts :) thanks, Norbert

Aug. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] The Pharo Advantage: what is it for you?

by Johan Fabry

Wow. This is exactly what I wanted to say â¦ except 10 times better :-) I think this is an excellent way to argue for the Pharo advantage! On Aug 23, 2013, at 8:49 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > A small team with sufficient real world software development experience, domain knowledge and practical Pharo experience can be an order of a magnitude more efficient than a larger team using a traditional approach and classic technology. > > Pharo is a uniquely dynamic environment that is both very simple and very powerful. It allows its developers to focus on what really matters, without the complexities of other tools, while remaining very flexible. It is one of the few languages that are really object oriented and offer access to readable source code, all the way down. > > The ecosystem around Pharo is strong enough to be able to deliver already existing solutions as well as the resources to build new solutions to specific problems. > > It is an environment that attracts individuals that deeply care about doing software development correctly. > > ;-) > > Sven ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Aug. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Trait composition on runtime

by Johan Fabry

On Aug 23, 2013, at 3:48 AM, Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: >> would strategy not solve your problem? >> > Sure if I would have an actual problem I would use strategy to mitigate the problem. With strategy you can extend the single dimensionality of single inheritance but you cannot acquire new behavior. Or better it is even more cumbersome if you use it to make it acquire new things. > Or different said: If there is something like a design pattern that is used really often it could be a good idea if the language would support this out of the box, right? Somewhere in between is the reason why I was asking :) Metaprogramming is your friend :-P Actually this is only half jokingly â¦ one of the ideas of metaprogramming is that the programmer can mold the semantics of the language to his/her liking depending on the task at hand. This (amongst others) is why we can do so many cool things in Smalltalk. For example, when you have a more concrete case of what you are looking for you can build something with method wrappers, or override DNU :-) to do your thing ... ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Aug. 23, 2013

[Off-Topic] Looking for a VisualWorks developer

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Hi, On behalf of a contact of me, I am posting the following job offer. I am well aware that this is not the correct list, please feel free to distribute this message further. It could be important for someone, and it is always good to have more people making a living doing Smalltalk. Delaware Consulting [ http://www.delawareconsulting.com ] is looking for at least one full stack Cincom VisualWorks Smalltalk developer to help maintain and further evolve a large custom-made ERP solution of a manufacturing company in Belgium. If you are interested, please contact me at sven(a)stfx.eu for a more detailed document describing the project and requirements, as well as more concrete contact details. Thanks, Sven -- Sven Van Caekenberghe http://stfx.eu Smalltalk is the Red Pill

Aug. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] The Pharo Advantage: what is it for you?

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 23 Aug 2013, at 10:32, "phil(a)highoctane.be" <phil(a)highoctane.be> wrote: > Hello, > > As part of the defense of a budget and technology choices, what would you guys list as a key advantage of using Pharo for creating software solutions? > > My current stack is: > > Pharo 2.0 > Seaside 3 (including Seaside-REST) > Magritte 3 > Twitter Bootstrap > > + a couple of data storage stuff (DBXTalk, Phriak, Voyage) > + STOMP > > + Amber if needed > > I've been test driving the whole stack for a while and even if there are some quirks, it looks like good enough for what I want to achieve. > > Now, my question: what is the Pharo advantage you would put forward vs other choices (like LAMP, Java, Rails etc). > > I am aware of what those could be but I am more looking for what makes you tick when using the technology (like: "it is fun to work with", "no more Java for me, due to ...", "speeds dev time by ...", "not NSA-backdoor-enabled") > > This is the kind of thing we should have in stock for helping the Consortium members get buy in from people giving a yes on budgets. > > Thanks in advance for your help! (BTW, I am going to use this on monday morning for defending our position on a significant project). > > Phil A small team with sufficient real world software development experience, domain knowledge and practical Pharo experience can be an order of a magnitude more efficient than a larger team using a traditional approach and classic technology. Pharo is a uniquely dynamic environment that is both very simple and very powerful. It allows its developers to focus on what really matters, without the complexities of other tools, while remaining very flexible. It is one of the few languages that are really object oriented and offer access to readable source code, all the way down. The ecosystem around Pharo is strong enough to be able to deliver already existing solutions as well as the resources to build new solutions to specific problems. It is an environment that attracts individuals that deeply care about doing software development correctly. ;-) Sven

Aug. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] The Pharo Advantage: what is it for you?

by Esteban A. Maringolo

2013/8/23 StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr>: >> Hello, >> >> As part of the defense of a budget and technology choices, what would you guys list as a key advantage of using Pharo for creating software solutions? > > - Pool of accessible experts > - Pool of other software solution developers > - Full stack access, no need to wait for another release to address a problem. > - Growth of the community > - Consortium > - I saw in one bank using Pharo (not public unfortunately) putting stability of the language I think Phil was referring to the technological/frameworks stack. Sadly, IMHO, almost every item you mention is surpassed by other non-mainstream or "trendy" technologies/stacks (JS, Erlang, Scala and others). One thing that, for me is a key differentiator is: - how easy is to change code on the fly - really complete debugging environment - objects all the way down - Easiness of the syntax (small, compact and homogeneous) Frameworks come and go, but I really like and feel like an advantage (even though the first two are not "Pharo exclusive"): - Seaside REST (pragmas are really convenient way to define it) - Magritte 3 - Zinc I want to take a look into STOMP, but didin't have time yet. I also like Voyage. Regards, Esteban A. Maringolo

Aug. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] The Pharo Advantage: what is it for you?

by Tudor Girba

Very nice, indeed! I like the examples. Doru On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > On 21 Aug 2013, at 11:52, btc(a)openinworld.com wrote: > > > Yesterday I came across this very nice Pharo tutorial [1] by Damien & > Camille. Some slides I think that relate are: > > * 47-49 syntax comparisons to another typical language > > * 72-75 easy web interaction > > * 80 serializing continuations / exception context (this is massively > impressive!) > > * 81 powerful breakpoints > > > > [1] > http://www.slideshare.net/pharoproject/pharo-tutorial-at-ecooptutorial > > Ah, I did not yet see this, but it _is_ a very nice presentation ! > > Sven > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Aug. 23, 2013