June 2013 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] implementing #release in a domain object

by Igor Stasenko

On 27 June 2013 14:54, Paul DeBruicker <pdebruic(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 06/27/2013 12:48 AM, Camillo Bruni wrote: >> >> On 2013-06-27, at 01:08, Paul DeBruicker <pdebruic(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Sven & Camillo, >>> >>> Ok thanks. And using the PointerFinder is there a way to know which of >>> the pointers points to the SystemDictionary or Object someObject or >>> whereever the GC begins so one would not have to check every pointer for >>> every stubborn object. >>> >>> E.g. Lets say I've nil'ed the reference between the Navy and the ship so >>> its ready to go but a few of the soldiers on the ship have references to >>> other ships because their transfer papers weren't processed properly. >>> Running #pointersTo on those soldiers gives a large collection of >>> pointers. >>> >>> >>> How can I use the computer to filter that list to just those references >>> back to the root object? >> >> What do you mean by root object? >> > > I'm sure my understanding is not completely accurate but by 'root > object' I mean whichever object (memory space? pointer?) the VM always > considers as part of the object-space-to-keep when it begins a full GC. > So every object which is kept implicitly points to that object through a > long chain (web?) of pointers. > yes, but in opposite direction. consider yourself a painter which start painting nodes , starting from root ones, then paint ones which they pointing to, then paint ones which those was pointing to (unless they already painted) and so on.. continue until you have nothing to paint left. Then the nodes which remain unpainted is garbage. If your objects connected via tree pattern, then everything goes well: - high command gives an order to admiral to disassemble his fleet, sink ships with all crew on board - admiral gives commands to captains, they give orders to officers and officers to rest of crew - when lower chain of command completes the order, the higher ones can commit suicide and finally captains press the button to open kingstones and die with ship. - finally admiral will do a harakiri (so, that will be perfect japanese version :) but in russian version (a graph), an admiral's dauther is married on one of the fleet's captains, and admiral, by knowing that gives order only to all but the ship where captain is in command. But that captain is friend with captain of another ship, and he asks admiral to find a way to keep that guy too and that guy can also has friends on other ships.. and so on.. so at the end, only those who has no friends will be fired.. but those who having them, will stay :) > > > >> In any case, if I'm not mistaken, this isn't that easy. Usually you have >> to manually track down and follow the objects in the PointerExplorer >> >> => Inspect an Object, right click, Explore Strong Pointers >> >> >> > > OK. I can imagine a Roassal visualization of a rats nest of objects as > nodes connected with edges made with #pointsTo: with just a few edges > connecting the main blob (e.g. the navy) to objects (soldiers) in a > smaller blob (the ship I want to GC). Kind of like the visualization > Craig Latta uses as the header for his blog and describes here: > https://thiscontext.wordpress.com/2012/10/22/a-detailed-description-of-spoo… > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

June 27, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] How do can we set up a crowdsourcing for pharo

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

On 27 Jun 2013, at 20:41, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 27 June 2013 18:32, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> I told you: 2 man/month >> (not taking NB-FFI into account) >> > That is a bit optimistic :) > But reasonable. Just to be clear: the goal is to make the current Cog & Stack VMs decent 64-bit apps that can operate on a 64-bit OS without needing special/extra 32-bit libs, while keeping intact the current 32-bit internal memory/pointer model, right ? And that on all 3 platforms ? Make that at least 3 months ;-) >> On Jun 27, 2013, at 6:26 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> >>> so much? >>> how many men/months? >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> On Jun 27, 2013, at 3:02 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On 27 June 2013 14:16, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>>>> Hi >>>>> >>>>> we got this discussion about the VM on 64 bits so do we try to take the opportunity >>>>> to get a crowdsource donate button for it? >>>>> >>>>> Esteban/igor what is your estimate for such task? >>>>> >>>> >>>> depends what you put into it: >>>> - interpreter + plugins >>>> - new object/image format (64bit) >>>> - 64-bit jit >>>> >>>>> Stef >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Best regards, >>>> Igor Stasenko. >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. >

June 27, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] How do can we set up a crowdsourcing for pharo

by Igor Stasenko

On 27 June 2013 18:32, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I told you: 2 man/month > (not taking NB-FFI into account) > That is a bit optimistic :) But reasonable. > On Jun 27, 2013, at 6:26 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >> so much? >> how many men/months? >> >> Stef >> >> On Jun 27, 2013, at 3:02 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On 27 June 2013 14:16, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> we got this discussion about the VM on 64 bits so do we try to take the opportunity >>>> to get a crowdsource donate button for it? >>>> >>>> Esteban/igor what is your estimate for such task? >>>> >>> >>> depends what you put into it: >>> - interpreter + plugins >>> - new object/image format (64bit) >>> - 64-bit jit >>> >>>> Stef >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Igor Stasenko. >>> >> >> > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

June 27, 2013

how to use RBClassRegexRefactoring in Pharo 2 ?

by Paul DeBruicker

Hi- In Nautilus when I try to use the 'Class Regex' menu item in Pharo 2 20605 I get an error that RBRegexClassRefactoring is an existing class in the system. In earlier Pharo versions you would select that menu item, make your changes, save them and then the refactoring would run. How do you do it now? Thanks Paul

June 27, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] How do can we set up a crowdsourcing for pharo

by Esteban Lorenzano

I told you: 2 man/month (not taking NB-FFI into account) On Jun 27, 2013, at 6:26 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > so much? > how many men/months? > > Stef > > On Jun 27, 2013, at 3:02 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 27 June 2013 14:16, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>> Hi >>> >>> we got this discussion about the VM on 64 bits so do we try to take the opportunity >>> to get a crowdsource donate button for it? >>> >>> Esteban/igor what is your estimate for such task? >>> >> >> depends what you put into it: >> - interpreter + plugins >> - new object/image format (64bit) >> - 64-bit jit >> >>> Stef >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Igor Stasenko. >> > >

June 27, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] How do can we set up a crowdsourcing for pharo

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

so much? how many men/months? Stef On Jun 27, 2013, at 3:02 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 27 June 2013 14:16, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> Hi >> >> we got this discussion about the VM on 64 bits so do we try to take the opportunity >> to get a crowdsource donate button for it? >> >> Esteban/igor what is your estimate for such task? >> > > depends what you put into it: > - interpreter + plugins > - new object/image format (64bit) > - 64-bit jit > >> Stef > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. >

June 27, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] How do can we set up a crowdsourcing for pharo

by Igor Stasenko

On 27 June 2013 14:48, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > honestly, depends a lot on who will do it. > > basically, I see 3 parts: > > 1) The Stack VM 64bits > 2) The Pharo image 64bits. > 3) NB-FFI 64 (No point on having a VM who cannot talk with the outside world) > > a future task could be create a JIT, but I complete ignorant on how difficult/possible is that :) > > To compile the stack vm in 64 bits is not difficult, but there is a lot of small tweaks to make... so I think 1 man-month should be enough . > To produce a 64bits pharo image we need an objecttracer.... and Guille says with ObjectSpaces is a lot easier... but again, it has to be done... I think another month should be enough. > > ... and with NB-FFI 64, no idea, but AFAIK is almost there (Camillo knows more there) > also, 1 and 2 are vital, and we can tune 3 with the VM+Image working. > > That's my (very general) opinion. > ah.. yes.. FFI too. That shouldn't be very difficult but cannot start work on it unless other two is ready. (it needs to know about object format and other stuff to generate proper code) > Esteban > > On Jun 27, 2013, at 2:16 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > >> Hi >> >> we got this discussion about the VM on 64 bits so do we try to take the opportunity >> to get a crowdsource donate button for it? >> >> Esteban/igor what is your estimate for such task? >> >> Stef > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

June 27, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] How do can we set up a crowdsourcing for pharo

by Igor Stasenko

On 27 June 2013 14:16, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Hi > > we got this discussion about the VM on 64 bits so do we try to take the opportunity > to get a crowdsource donate button for it? > > Esteban/igor what is your estimate for such task? > depends what you put into it: - interpreter + plugins - new object/image format (64bit) - 64-bit jit > Stef -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

June 27, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] implementing #release in a domain object

by Paul DeBruicker

On 06/27/2013 12:48 AM, Camillo Bruni wrote: > > On 2013-06-27, at 01:08, Paul DeBruicker <pdebruic(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Sven & Camillo, >> >> Ok thanks. And using the PointerFinder is there a way to know which of >> the pointers points to the SystemDictionary or Object someObject or >> whereever the GC begins so one would not have to check every pointer for >> every stubborn object. >> >> E.g. Lets say I've nil'ed the reference between the Navy and the ship so >> its ready to go but a few of the soldiers on the ship have references to >> other ships because their transfer papers weren't processed properly. >> Running #pointersTo on those soldiers gives a large collection of >> pointers. >> >> >> How can I use the computer to filter that list to just those references >> back to the root object? > > What do you mean by root object? > I'm sure my understanding is not completely accurate but by 'root object' I mean whichever object (memory space? pointer?) the VM always considers as part of the object-space-to-keep when it begins a full GC. So every object which is kept implicitly points to that object through a long chain (web?) of pointers. > In any case, if I'm not mistaken, this isn't that easy. Usually you have > to manually track down and follow the objects in the PointerExplorer > > => Inspect an Object, right click, Explore Strong Pointers > > > OK. I can imagine a Roassal visualization of a rats nest of objects as nodes connected with edges made with #pointsTo: with just a few edges connecting the main blob (e.g. the navy) to objects (soldiers) in a smaller blob (the ship I want to GC). Kind of like the visualization Craig Latta uses as the header for his blog and describes here: https://thiscontext.wordpress.com/2012/10/22/a-detailed-description-of-spoo…

June 27, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] How do can we set up a crowdsourcing for pharo

by Esteban Lorenzano

honestly, depends a lot on who will do it. basically, I see 3 parts: 1) The Stack VM 64bits 2) The Pharo image 64bits. 3) NB-FFI 64 (No point on having a VM who cannot talk with the outside world) a future task could be create a JIT, but I complete ignorant on how difficult/possible is that :) To compile the stack vm in 64 bits is not difficult, but there is a lot of small tweaks to make... so I think 1 man-month should be enough . To produce a 64bits pharo image we need an objecttracer.... and Guille says with ObjectSpaces is a lot easier... but again, it has to be done... I think another month should be enough. ... and with NB-FFI 64, no idea, but AFAIK is almost there (Camillo knows more there) also, 1 and 2 are vital, and we can tune 3 with the VM+Image working. That's my (very general) opinion. Esteban On Jun 27, 2013, at 2:16 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Hi > > we got this discussion about the VM on 64 bits so do we try to take the opportunity > to get a crowdsource donate button for it? > > Esteban/igor what is your estimate for such task? > > Stef

June 27, 2013